My BF's BPD ex is trying to woo him

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

After a year of mostly heinous (and I do mean heinous) treatment and parental alienation toward him for the year and a half since they separated, my boyfriend's soon to be ex got him by himself and said that she can see that she screwed things up and treated him poorly and was sorry.  She has now started texting him every few days with "Have a nice day" sort of texts. 

I told him that I suspected that she wanted something from him.  I thought she was buttering him up for better treatment at their divorce settlement.  I was wrong.  She recognized his good relationship with me but still asked if he would "date her."  She told him that she didn't want him to answer her, but to think about it.

He and are blissfully happy and I know 100% that he will not go back to her.  With the divorce looming, we were thinking that it would be best for him not to upset her by telling her there's no way.  Of course, if she asks him for his answer, he'd tell her the truth. 

My question is, how do I cope with her continuing to try to woo him back?  He's very neutral with her texts (he shows me their exchanges) but it's very frustrating for me to stand by while she keeps coming at him.  I would never dream of talking to her, but that doesn't make it any easier to just do nothing.  Or am I being unreasonable being upset by this since I know that he's not going to go back to her? 

I would greatly appreciate any thoughts you have on this.  I feel just awful. 

[Tracy500]

After a year of mostly heinous (and I do mean heinous) treatment and parental alienation toward him for the year and a half since they separated, my boyfriend's soon to be ex got him by himself and said that she can see that she screwed things up and treated him poorly and was sorry.  She has now started texting him every few days with "Have a nice day" sort of texts. 

I told him that I suspected that she wanted something from him.  I thought she was buttering him up for better treatment at their divorce settlement.  I was wrong.  She recognized his good relationship with me but still asked if he would "date her."  She told him that she didn't want him to answer her, but to think about it.

He and are blissfully happy and I know 100% that he will not go back to her.  With the divorce looming, we were thinking that it would be best for him not to upset her by telling her there's no way.  Of course, if she asks him for his answer, he'd tell her the truth. 

My question is, how do I cope with her continuing to try to woo him back?  He's very neutral with her texts (he shows me their exchanges) but it's very frustrating for me to stand by while she keeps coming at him.  I would never dream of talking to her, but that doesn't make it any easier to just do nothing.  Or am I being unreasonable being upset by this since I know that he's not going to go back to her? 

I would greatly appreciate any thoughts you have on this.  I feel just awful. 

[Grey Kitty]

How "soon" is the soon-to-be-ex for your bf? As in, how long until the divorce is final? He'll have less reason to avoid rocking the boat after that.

One other thought. A pwBPD can shift 180 degrees at any time. Who knows how long she'll want him back. Unfortunately, that doesn't help you, as you have no control over this and no way to predict it.

Hang in there... .this does sound tough.

[goldylamont]

i sense a ton of strength and resolve in your r/s with your bf, so i would use this to do the only thing you can really, which is to wait it out. but while you wait it out, i think communication between you and he is very important. don't do anything or reach out in any way to that loony ex--this would shift things into a place where she feels more comfortable (crazyville). i would let your bf know in little bits and pieces here and there how this is affecting you... .maybe let him know you need an extra hug and kiss the next time she's flirty, just to remind you know what you already know. he sounds like a good man, and i was in his shoes (although i had it much easier since i wasn't married to exBPDgf and didn't share a child). and i had to manage dealing with the ex with my new gf also. for me i had to take time to myself to deal with my own isht (anger/grief which would come back from time to time) and also be so thankful to have the positive and sexy woman i was with in my life. perhaps the lemonade from this lemon would be that you two can learn to communicate about touchy subjects. i think it's ok to let him know that you feel vulnerable at times (actually i think you should), but make sure that it doesn't feel like a punishment for him. let him know that you're there for him to support him during all of this, but also that you so much love to feel the support from him.

all of this you're probably doing anyway, but your post sparked these thoughts in me. best wishes, and, thank you. from a man who appreciates a woman who is patient, strong and trusting... .you're guy is lucky

[Tracy500]

Thank you for taking the time to reply.  It means a lot to me.  Goldy, you're right.  It has absolutely opened doors for communicating about touchy subjects.  We both decided from the start that we could have complete transparency and that no subject was off limits.  We both know that if you don't let things fester, you can deal with them and they're over with.  There's no resentment whatsoever between us and we're so happy as a result.  I never in my life would have thought that i would have a relationship this strong and happy. 

As it happens, I talked to him and told him it was torture for me to stand by and watch her trying to get him back.  I told him it was making me sick every day. She's posting stuff about him on FB as if she were part of his inner circle. She only knows anything that's going on with him because of what she hears from others.  It's crazy!   

Once I made it clear to him that I was not at all afraid of him going back to her, he said that what upset him the most was the fact that I was upset and that he would set her straight.  He didn't come right out and tell her there was no chance, even if she were the last woman on earth, but he has conveyed the message in more subtle, but clear ways. 

Yesterday, he told her that he wanted to sit down with her and settle the divorce details in the next two weeks.  She turned on the tears (her "go to" move) and he was totally immune to it.  He told her that he wanted to meet with her today.  She tried to weasel out of a meeting but he was insistent.  I think it's a 50/50 chance that they'll actually meet.  She'll come up with some lame excuse to try to keep up the hope that he'll change his mind.

Personally, I don't think it'll do any good for them to try to discuss things.  I think a judge is ultimately going to decide this, but it makes no difference to me if he gets together with her to try to make her see reason.  We all know people with BPD are unable to see reason.  At least it'll drive home the fact to her that he's NOT going back. 

Grey Kitty, thanks for the words of support.  It'll probably be another six months until the divorce is final, unfortunately, unless her lawyer can make her understand that she should jump at what he's offering her. 

[Grey Kitty]

Three cheers for partners who play with a full emotional deck, and have the range to discuss difficult emotional situations! (This is not the situation that got most of us on these boards!)

What he's doing now sounds good to me, and you sound happy with it as well.

All that is left is months more vicarious crap from his ex as they move through the divorce. I know that sort of thing all too well, with a couple divorces involving people close to me muddling along over too many months.

I wish I could find a wormhole to through all these divorces through so they don't drag on like this!

 GK

[Justadude]

Of course she wants him back. Temporarily that is. Think control, control, control. Think yo yo. He's at risk because... .He has a child she's already used as ammunition. Be careful. These people are very evil.

[ForeverDad]

Most divorces, even many high conflict ones, do end with a settlement.  Note the emphasis on end.  Early offers from the disordered spouse are very likely to be unrealistic and unreasonable.  It happens sometimes, but often settlements happen "on the court house steps", only when delays, claims, allegations and obstructions can't be extended any more.

In my case, I was painted black.  My ex was 'forced' - by the court in the temp order - to allow me alternate weekend parenting time.  So in mediation that's what her final terms were.  I disagreed.  Roll the calendar a year and a half later, on Trial Morning (2008), after a custody evaluation that reflected poorly on her and mere minutes before beginning the Trial, we settled.  It was for equal time in Shared Parenting and I was Residential Parent for School Purposes.  I would never have gotten that much any earlier.  All hope of continued delays and allegations had to be gone before she could face the facts that she couldn't rule the roost anymore.  My case centered on custody and parenting time, the financials were side issues and afterthoughts.  Even that measure of equality didn't last of course, there were more incidents, I managed to get custody three years later (2009-2011) and after even more incidents I'm currently seeking majority parenting time (2012-13).

His situation is of course a little different so not everything that worked in my case will work in his, but it gives you the framework of some expectations, boundaries and strategies.

[Waddams]

Maybe I'm just cynical and paranoid towards pwPD's now, but if I would trust anything she said.  I wouldn't put it past these people to do something like act like she wants to get back together, break up his new relationship, and then dump him and finish the divorce.  All just to punish him more.

It sounds like your situation really comes down to trust.  Do you trust him?  If you do, then don't worry about her.  He'll get the divorce worked out in time one way or another.  She'll do BPD things and will seem like a real fruit cake.  Just try to ignore it, be supportive of him when he needs with regards to dealing with her and the divorce, and otherwise enjoy your relationship.  She's not worth expending emotional energy on.

Just my $0.02.

[Tracy500]

 "All hope of continued delays and allegations had to be gone before she could face the facts that she couldn't rule the roost anymore."

Forever Dad, this jumped off the screen at me.  She still thinks she rules the roost and she's going to continue to act irrationally until she thinks she has no more options.  It's good to know what to expect.  Right now, she can get away with ignoring her lawyer's requests to present my BF's proposals to her and she can get away with delaying my BF's requests that they get together and talk.  That has been her pattern of existence.  Ignore it and it'll go away.  Well, sometimes it does; most times it comes back to bite you in the backside. 

Waddams, I never trust ANYTHING she says.  She's a compulsive liar.  I journal so I have dates and times that she's lied about things.  Whenever my BF says, "It could be that she's finally seeing the light,"  I remind him of specific instances that she has lied.  I also remind him of the heinous things that she's done to him and to me and to their kids and he usually adds, "But I'm taking it with a grain of salt.  You never know with her."  I always follow with, "Yeah.  We know that she has no problem lying."  He can never use the "L" word, though, which I find a little odd, but not that big of a deal.

I trust him 100%.  He is such a different person now that I know that he will never go back to all that chaos.  He likes calm and peaceful and now that he's gotten out on his own and gotten a taste of that, there's no going back. 

I battle the urge to expend emotional energy on her, especially when she seems to "get away with" so many horrible things.  I journal and write her letters that I'll never send, then I try to put her out of my mind.  I don't want her to pollute my psyche. 

[catnap]

Hooray for your healthy relationship! 

2 books I can recommend:

Splitting: Protecting Yourself While Divorcing a Borderline Personality or Narcissist by Bill Eddy

Divorce Poison by Richard Warshak

One of the mantras here is document, document, document.

Keep all the texts-print them out and keep them showing date and time stamps.  Keep the phone bills also as further proof.  With 6 months to go he is likely to receive quite a few different ones. . .wooing, threatening, nasty, nice. . .and a journal on what was going on during this time. Ditto for emails.  Bf also needs to (if not already) keep a journal of everything and any proof.  Take screen shots of her Facebook as well if it is relevant and keep them.  While 90% of all these things may not even see the light of day in court, you never know what might come in handy to prove or disprove something.

If he meets with her he should never go alone, or meet in a public place and ABR (always be recording-check your state laws on one party recording) to protect himself.  In divorce with a person who is unstable, there is nothing that is off limits to the accusations that can be made. 

Keep posting, reading, learning and keep on with your great relationship and communication with your bf.  There will be days you just might need to vent and this is a very safe place to do so.   

[ForeverDad]

Courts don't know how to call anyone a liar either.   Courtspeak equivalent is "not credible".  That occurred just once in my nearly 8 years dealing with the courts and agencies.  Everything else was "not guilty", "unsubstantiated" or just plain ignored.  ('Ignored' does not mean the various allegations were ignored, just means there were no consequences.)

Whenever my BF says, "It could be that she's finally seeing the light... ."

Nearly everyone here has hoped that.  Sadly, hopes are wishes and therefore quite iffy.  Only those in meaningful long term therapy and recovery really 'see the light'.

[Waddams]

Only those in meaningful long term therapy and recovery really 'see the light'.

The Wikipedia Article on BPD has a pretty good write up on recovery from BPD at this point. 

From the Article:

With treatment, the majority of people with BPD can find relief from distressing symptoms and achieve remission, defined as a consistent relief from symptoms for at least two years.[120][121] A longitudinal study tracking the symptoms of people with BPD found that 34.5% achieved remission within two years from the beginning of the study. Within four years, 49.4% had achieved remission, and within six years, 68.6% had achieved remission. By the end of the study, 73.5% of participants were found to be in remission.[120] Moreover, of those who achieved recovery from symptoms, only 5.9% experienced recurrences. A later study found that ten years from baseline (during a hospitalization), 86% of patients had sustained and stable recovery from symptoms.[122]Thus contrary to popular belief, recovery from BPD is not only possible but common, even for those with the most severe symptoms.[120] However, it is important to note that these high rates of relief from distressing symptoms have only been observed among those who receive treatment of some kind.[120]Patient personality can play an important role during the therapeutic process, leading to better clinical outcomes. Recent research has shown that BPD patients with higher levels of trait agreeableness undergoing Dialectical Behavior Therapy (DBT) exhibited better clinical outcomes than other patients either low in Agreeableness or not being treated with DBT. This association was mediated through the strength of a working alliance between patient and therapist; that is, more Agreeable patients developed stronger working alliances with their therapists which in turn led to better clinical outcomes.[123]In addition to recovering from distressing symptoms, people with BPD also achieve high levels of psychosocial functioning. A longitudinal study tracking the social and work abilities of participants with BPD found that six years after diagnosis, 56% of participants had good function in work and social environments, compared to 26% of participants when they were first diagnosed. Vocational achievement was generally more limited, even compared to those with other personality disorders. However, those whose symptoms had remitted were significantly more likely to have good relationships with a romantic partner and at least one parent, good performance at work and school, a sustained work and school history, and good psychosocial functioning overall.[124]

To summarize all that - the pwBPD has to recognize and accept they're problem as dx'd, and then enter therapy and be committed to it.  Notice that recovery time is measured in YEARS.  It's very hard for them, but kudos to them that actually make it.  Also note the low rate of recurrence of symptoms once remission is achieved, though.  I don't believe my uPDxw or another uBPDxgf are truely evil people in their hearts.  When they're in stable phases, they're fine people.  They just never learned how to handle grown up life.  I think once a pwBPD does recover, what that really translates to is they have finally grown up into an emotionally mature adult.

[Tracy500]

Hooray for your healthy relationship! 

2 books I can recommend:

Splitting: Protecting Yourself While Divorcing a Borderline Personality or Narcissist by Bill Eddy

Divorce Poison by Richard Warshak

One of the mantras here is document, document, document.

Keep all the texts-print them out and keep them showing date and time stamps.  Keep the phone bills also as further proof.  With 6 months to go he is likely to receive quite a few different ones. . .wooing, threatening, nasty, nice. . .and a journal on what was going on during this time. Ditto for emails.  Bf also needs to (if not already) keep a journal of everything and any proof.  Take screen shots of her Facebook as well if it is relevant and keep them.  While 90% of all these things may not even see the light of day in court, you never know what might come in handy to prove or disprove something.

If he meets with her he should never go alone, or meet in a public place and ABR (always be recording-check your state laws on one party recording) to protect himself.  In divorce with a person who is unstable, there is nothing that is off limits to the accusations that can be made. 

Keep posting, reading, learning and keep on with your great relationship and communication with your bf.  There will be days you just might need to vent and this is a very safe place to do so.   

Catnap, are you and I sharing the same brain?  I have read both of those books and gave them to my BF.  He has read them, but I'm not sure he actually finished them.  They are fantastic.  They make me seem sort of like a psychic in my ability to predict her next move. 

I am the documenter.  He has kept some emails, but deletes texts and lost a bunch when his phone broke.  As far as I know, he's keeping emails from her.  I need to make sure that he's doing this and tell him to keep texts as well.  She texted me and sent me a mean message through Facebook and I forwarded them to my attorney.  I have taken screen shots of her FB pages when pertinent.  I have journal records of the awful things she has done to him since their separation.  I tell him the same thing.  Chances are, he won't have to use any of this, but if he did, wouldn't it be wonderful to have it?

On those few occasions that he has met up with her, I always urge him to go to a public place.  I don't trust her to be alone with him.  Honestly, I think it would be entirely possible for her to pull out a knife or something.  When I say that, he chuckles, but I point out the crimes of passion that you hear on the news. 

I keep telling him that she is a liar and is capable of anything.  I told him that she could accuse him of anything.  ANYTHING.  He doesn't believe that she would go to extreme lengths.  I pointed out the message she sent me that said, "He will never love you the say he still loves me."  That was the moment that I knew that she had really crossed over into Crazytown.  It's a bit frustrating to me how he doesn't fully see the potential for disaster here. 

Thank you for the encouragement to vent on these boards.  I may just do that.  There are several days when I just want to vent, I get so frustrated. 

[ForeverDad]

I keep telling him that she is a liar and is capable of anything.  I told him that she could accuse him of anything.  ANYTHING.  He doesn't believe that she would go to extreme lengths.

Tell him what happened to me.  After we separated, she started making false allegations to (1) sabotage my parenting and (2) to make me look worse than her.  It started off with an allegations me letting our preschooler tip his bike and him breaking a bone.  True, but there wasn't even a scratch.  When court disregarded it she started making more severe allegations.  I won't write what they were, but they're the worst you can imagine and I will say that because of those allegations I'm relieved we had a son and not a daughter.  Get my drift?  And this was the spouse who had volunteered with me for some 8 years as a religious volunteer.  She avoided the appearance of outright lies by claiming, "my son told me... ."

Scary.  I can't count how many nights I awoke with my heart racing and my brain on red alert, imagining that maybe that was the night the police would haul me away in an orange jumpsuit.  Never happened, but that's how it felt. :'(

[catnap]

False allegations are the fallback of most disordered persons.  If nothing else, they have to try to make you look worse than them.  Your best protection is to avoid situations where you are alone with them.  Just because it has not happened before does not mean it won't happen. 

We have had many members who have been falsely arrested for DV, who were later proved innocent, but the arrested record is still in the public domain.  It can kill a career. 

They can get very creative. In my son's case she attempted to kidnap the baby a day before the sole custody hearing. She told the police she had a CPO (child protection order--they did not ask to see the order), and the only thing that prevented it was that he was carrying the court paperwork and had a TRO against her in the child's name.  Later, when we were able to get the police report it showed she was told to "work this out in court".  She created the whole mess by making TWO phone calls.  The first was to the pediatrician's office telling them she had a CPO, but her bf had taken the baby, if he was to make an appointment to let her know.  The office did call her ( when he finally got a copy of his daughter's medical records and they had written a notation without requiring proof), and then she called the police.  He and his daughter were given a police escort out of the pediatrician's office. 

The above is a minor incident compared to some of the stories here.

[Tracy500]

False allegations are the fallback of most disordered persons.  If nothing else, they have to try to make you look worse than them.  Your best protection is to avoid situations where you are alone with them.  Just because it has not happened before does not mean it won't happen. 

We have had many members who have been falsely arrested for DV, who were later proved innocent, but the arrested record is still in the public domain.  It can kill a career. 

They can get very creative. In my son's case she attempted to kidnap the baby a day before the sole custody hearing. She told the police she had a CPO (child protection order--they did not ask to see the order), and the only thing that prevented it was that he was carrying the court paperwork and had a TRO against her in the child's name.  Later, when we were able to get the police report it showed she was told to "work this out in court".  She created the whole mess by making TWO phone calls.  The first was to the pediatrician's office telling them she had a CPO, but her bf had taken the baby, if he was to make an appointment to let her know.  The office did call her ( when he finally got a copy of his daughter's medical records and they had written a notation without requiring proof), and then she called the police.  He and his daughter were given a police escort out of the pediatrician's office. 

The above is a minor incident compared to some of the stories here.

These kinds of stories scare the crap out of me but he truly doesn't believe that she'd stoop that low. I absolutely do. She already has.  They had to keep living together after he told her he wanted the divorce because neither could afford to get a place while the house was for sale.  Six months later, she looked through his phone and found a text from me.  She kicked him out of the house in the middle of the night and threw his things on the lawn.  Did I mention that he has cancer and was beginning four weeks of IV treatments three days from then?  She then proceeded to lie and distort everything to the kids to the point where only one of them made any contact with him during his treatment.  It has been over a year and the kids still haven't completely come around. 

We have had discussions about him being reactive and me being proactive.  He respects that about me and sees that it's a useful trait to have, but he can't seem to go as far as to see why he needs to be that way.  I sometimes get the feeling that he believes I'm overreacting.  Hmmmm.  Maybe another touchy subject he and I need to discuss!