Home page of BPDFamily.com, online relationship supportMember registration here
January 19, 2021, 01:15:31 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Board Admins: Harri, Once Removed
Senior Ambassadors: Cat Familiar, I Am Redeemed, Mutt, Turkish
  Help!   Groups   Please Donate Login to Post New?--Click here to register  
bing
VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?" Parental alienation is when a parent allows a child to participate or hear them degrade the other parent. This is not uncommon in divorces and the children often adjust. In severe cases, however, it can be devastating to the child. This video provides a helpful overview.
204
Pages: [1] 2 3  All   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: When They Dump You: Recycling Questions  (Read 11682 times)
UmbrellaBoy
***
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Gay, lesb
Posts: 116


« on: October 07, 2013, 09:01:00 PM »

My BPDex dumped me 8 weeks ago, and it was understood that we wouldn't be speaking afterward. I can't even really remember how that was made clear this time, but I started the "no contact" precedent years ago when I cut him off a few times for being flakey (though he always managed to rope me back in). Then it began that he started cutting me off (either "abandonment pre-emptively," or out of engulfment fears, or on account of abandonment fears from the other guy he was involved with cutting him off) in which cases he made it clear that, while he probably imagined reconnecting at least as friends long term, we needed to take "time off" after. He came back once or twice from one of these too. The cut-offs he has initiated always lasted longer than my cut-offs, mainly because when I'd do the cutting off, he'd freak out and run back within a week or two. The ones he initiated have lasted 6 weeks, 12 weeks, this one is 8 weeks so far.

I guess my question is about two things:

A) what the are difference, do you think, in regards to recycling when they are the ones who end the relationship and suggest the "time out" or no contact versus when we cut them off

and

B) do you think a recycle is more likely if we leave them in a good mood or in a bad mood? That is to say, after he cut me off this most recent time I sent a mean email basically chewing him out and saying I didn't want to hear from him again. Part of me thinks this will help make it less likely for him to contact me, like he'll be too afraid or ashamed to do so, which is in his personality (though I did include a caveat something like "assuming your decision remains the same" or something like that). But part of me wonders if acting like I've moved on like that will, in the end, trigger his abandonment fears and make it MORE likely that he'll attempt a recycle, given that I didn't end it with an "I'm always here if you want to come back" or anything squishy like that.

So what do you think? Dumper versus dumpee differences when it comes to requesting the no contact? And a "strong" or "mean" or "moved on" final contact versus a "weak" or "I still want you" contact when it comes to affecting whether they try to recycle?
Logged

Ironmanrises
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 1774


« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2013, 09:28:33 PM »

The fact... .

That you have gone through multiple recycles... .

And the fact... .

That your ex knows... .

He can successfully recycle you... .

Increases the chances significantly... .

For him to try and contact you again.

Since he knows he can come right back into your life... .

Again and again... .

Why would he all of a sudden change that behavior... .?

Even if he is with someone else... .

He may not contact you in the idealization phase... .

But when that relationship fails... .

And it will... .

He will very likely... .

Contact you.

See the pattern... .?

If you read through a lot of the accounts here... .

You will notice a pattern... .

Of the "cut off" BPD that that doesn't return at all... .

Versus... .

The "boomerang" BPD that returns again and again.

Now that isn't scientific... .

I know.

But it is a pattern nonetheless.

Their behavior does not change.

My ex returned to me once... .

And I allowed her back in.

And she left again.

Her behavior was the same as first time around.

Based on this... .

It is highly probable... .

That she will attempt to contact me again.

Why wouldn't she... .?

She knows... .

She got me to allow her back in once.

Her behavior isn't going to change now.

A good predictor of future behavior... .

Is past behavior.

Hang in there Umbrella.



Logged
UmbrellaBoy
***
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Gay, lesb
Posts: 116


« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2013, 10:31:03 PM »

Hm, yeah. He left once like this before only to return and things went on another 8 months, so it wouldn't be surprising if it happened again. Though the periods when he is the one initiating and enforcing the cut-off seem to last longer than when I tried to be the one breaking it off... .

I guess the main difference this time is that last time, though he was the one who left, I left the door open and played nice and was all "Please reconsider and I'll be here waiting and you can always come back" and he did. This time I sort of flipped him the bird as he left and said I never wanted to hear from him again. I wonder if that changes things any... .
Logged

Ironmanrises
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 1774


« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2013, 10:54:25 PM »

Hm, yeah. He left once like this before only to return and things went on another 8 months, so it wouldn't be surprising if it happened again. Though the periods when he is the one initiating and enforcing the cut-off seem to last longer than when I tried to be the one breaking it off....

I guess the main difference this time is that last time, though he was the one who left, I left the door open and played nice and was all "Please reconsider and I'll be here waiting and you can always come back" and he did. This time I sort of flipped him the bird as he left and said I never wanted to hear from him again. I wonder if that changes things any... .

In bold.

They probably last longer due to... .

Control... .

Since he is the one who initiated... .

And possibly... .

If there was someone else... .

Which... .

Is another form of abusive control.

Even though you gave him the finger... .

When he left you again... .

As opposed... .

To... .

Ill wait for you to come back... .

Based on his previous behavior... .

He will return... .

Again.

And this will keep on repeating... .

Until you put a stop to it... .

For your own well being.

I fear my ex will try and contact me again... .

Because she has done so before... .

And was successful... .

In the attempt.

I am repairing so much damage... .

In the aftermath.

I cannot allow her reentry into my life.

Logged
Oliolioxenfree
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 107


« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2013, 11:05:18 PM »

If you are lucky they will never contact you again.

my experience has been, when i broke things off, he couldn't handle it and contacted me within a few days begging to be taken back.  He also had no victim lined up as my replacement.

this past breakup he had a replacement lined up and he broke things off with me to be with her.  Haven't heard from him in about 7 months since the breakup.

So its hard to say.  I think when they leave for someone else you won't hear from them during the idealization phase however they will still STALK you online. trust me. this seems to be a pervasive pattern even when they are with the new victim they left you for.

Once their new relationship inevitably fails you may hear from them, but again who cares.  its better to never hear from them again to be honest.  This is a no win situation.  With many exes after the breakup once you reach indifference you can be cordial and be friends, but with someone who has BPD, you cannot be friends, they will try to infiltrate your life and get to you even as your so called friend.  If they aren't contacting you, consider yourself one of the blessed.

Logged
fromheeltoheal
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Broken up, I left her
Posts: 5642


« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2013, 12:36:27 AM »

Remember BPD is an attachment disorder, and a BPD MUST attach to someone to feel whole, which is a big motivator; they don't do well on their own.  That being said, he has a higher chance of contacting you if he can't find a new attachment quickly enough, and it doesn't have much to do with you, you're just an attachment source.  It doesn't matter how things ended or who left whom either; over and over on these boards you hear of all hell breaking loose with a BPD and a very short time later they're acting like nothing ever happened.  I think the term for it is labile moods, meaning they're all over the map emotionally and can change on a dime, there is no long term consistency.
Logged
DragoN
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 996


« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2013, 01:39:05 AM »

Excerpt
I think the term for it is labile moods, meaning they're all over the map emotionally and can change on a dime, there is no long term consistency.

If you look at some of the posts on the leaving board, some are labile from day to day. Self included, although I'd say doesn't change on a dime. More the slow inexorable wave of sadness that hits like a ton of bricks. Then the slow pick up of working through the emotions and the root cause. I'd like to avoid medication and alcohol as a form of self soothing. Feelings aren't Facts and they change in time as well.
Logged
GreenMango
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 4328



« Reply #7 on: October 08, 2013, 01:49:51 AM »

My experience it didn't matter.  I was both.  What drove it was need, opportunity and being receptive.

Umbrella it sounds like you are asking if there's a chance he will come back.  Do you want to try again with him? 

Logged

UmbrellaBoy
***
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Gay, lesb
Posts: 116


« Reply #8 on: October 08, 2013, 03:47:27 AM »

I am sort of asking if there is a chance he will come back or, rather, what factors make that more or less likely. But that doesn't necessarily indicate hope or that I want it. Part of it could be fear about him coming back and trying to figure out what's the best way to ensure No Contact stays that way forever. But I think I've said here, I don't know if I'd be strong enough to resist another recycle if he put "all the marbles" on the table, though I could see myself getting devastated if he reappeared but without making any commitments; that would feel worst of all. I don't want to hear from him again... .unless he's putting everything on the table. But I know that's unlikely (when they reappear, they tend to fish and be vague and try to get back in without firm commitments) and so, in that case, it's just best not to hear anything at all.
Logged

GreenMango
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 4328



« Reply #9 on: October 08, 2013, 03:54:30 AM »

You sure he has all his marbles?

I ask because if you feel that doubt about your decision and that letter it may be you need to contact him.  If you want to try it again. And you'll have to be the one to make the initial move.  If you are mulling around this doubt and do contact him post on the staying board for guidance. 

If its a fear thing and you are scared you won't be able to resist his charm then it may be good to look at the facts of what transpired between you two and look at what kind of people you want to spend your time with.  What their character is like, theory values, etc and measure this guy up.

What would your reaction be if he called tomorrow?  Is he the type of person you respect and trust? What's his character like?
Logged

happylogist
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 163



« Reply #10 on: October 08, 2013, 04:33:03 AM »

Code:
What would your reaction be if he called tomorrow?  Is he the type of person you respect and trust? What's his character like?


Agree completely! Those are questions that you have to ask to yourself, UmbrelaBoy, instead of thinking about the probability of his effort to recycle you.

With or without BPD people are still somehow different, and whether he will or he will not depends on many factors, also when they will recycle depends also on so many factors (your availability, him having other attachment sources, being depressed or not, having an interesting job/interests ... .the list goes on and on).  It is very important to understand that their reasons for recycling are soo different. Some do to feel love again, some do not to feel hated, others do because they need all their attachment sources to confirm their availability.

My ex kept recycling his exes (telling that he loves them and all that stuff), just to feel not hated by them. That was the main aim of his recycle attempts, and not a sudden realization that he was wrong or he wanted to start from the beginning. Just to know that he was not painted black!  He broke it off with me, we are NC for 2 months and I know that the next time he contacts me - it will be more along the lines of his ex recycle attempts. My "wise mind" says he won't change, though of course emotionally I want him to say "sorry, i was so wrong, here are all my commitments to you, I want us to be together" and show me that in his actions.  This is why I am not trying anymore to do anything.  There is no complete reciprocity, which I need.
Logged
fromheeltoheal
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Broken up, I left her
Posts: 5642


« Reply #11 on: October 08, 2013, 08:54:09 AM »

Excerpt
I think the term for it is labile moods, meaning they're all over the map emotionally and can change on a dime, there is no long term consistency.

If you look at some of the posts on the leaving board, some are labile from day to day. Self included, although I'd say doesn't change on a dime. More the slow inexorable wave of sadness that hits like a ton of bricks. Then the slow pick up of working through the emotions and the root cause. I'd like to avoid medication and alcohol as a form of self soothing. Feelings aren't Facts and they change in time as well.

Thanks Sabratha, your point is key.  The cluster B personality disorder called BPD includes "a pattern of marked impulsivity and instability of affects, interpersonal relationships, and self image."  

Humans go through a lot of moods, especially when processing trauma, and who's to say a person's instability of affect is marked.  Having lived it and been shocked by it, I'd say we experienced marked, although it is a continuum, and who's to draw the line?  Not us, we aren't professionals, and after all it's about our healing anyway.
Logged
mitchell16
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 829


« Reply #12 on: October 08, 2013, 04:04:51 PM »

Remember BPD is an attachment disorder, and a BPD MUST attach to someone to feel whole, which is a big motivator; they don't do well on their own

Does this always include intimate relationships or just anybody. after this last time myexBPDgf become extremely close with a female co-worker 25 years younger then her. now they act like teenage girls, dress alike, posing for picture togther. the friend is in a relationship but her bf works out of town alot. The younger friend has even moved in with my exBPDgf a few nights a week. They hang togther all the time.

and since she has this, the recycle attempts have been longer and aint near as intese as in the past. Im just curious.
Logged
DownandOut
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 260


« Reply #13 on: October 08, 2013, 04:18:56 PM »

My "wise mind" says he won't change, though of course emotionally I want him to say "sorry, i was so wrong, here are all my commitments to you, I want us to be together" and show me that in his actions.  This is why I am not trying anymore to do anything.  There is no complete reciprocity, which I need.

And you're right. He won't change. I got all the things you mention. I got the sorrys, the commitment that this time was different, the speeches about how I was the one that got away and she needed the time to find herself so that she could be healthy for me and that she finally did. None of it mattered. As soon as I let my guard down and began to love her, I was devalued and she moved on while we were still together. It is so unbelievably painful, but it is a sickness that we cannot cure them of. The one thing I learned from my relationship and possibly why I have been affected immensely because of it is that there was something special about me to her. She was conscious of her illness but couldn't pinpoint what it was (I know now that it was BPD) and she knew that if she wanted to get better I was the person who would be there forever and help her do that. I was everything she wanted, needed and feared most. Amazing paradox when you think about it.
Logged
peas
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Relationship status: single
Posts: 376


« Reply #14 on: October 08, 2013, 04:54:19 PM »

In my experience, my ex wrote me off a final time after the last breakup, which he initiated. No recycle attempt in 3.5 months so far. He was really angry with me when we parted. Since I could tell he was serious the last time (actually, I thought he was serious with each breakup), I unleashed a lot of stuff I had been holding back. I stopped walking on eggshells, fed him some truth, agreed we were done, and that his abuse sucked.

I don't know if he jumped to a replacement, but he made it clear he wants nothing to do with me. I told him I didn't want to be part of his life either.

I do not believe he is keeping up with me from a distance. He blocked me on social media after the breakup (I blocked him first then unblocked after two weeks, only to see he immediately blocked me back) and I have not checked in a while whether I am unblocked. I think he made up his mind to completely cut me out and avoid any memories of our seven months together. He got fed up with the long distance relationship and I think for him it is easy to finally write me off because we are not in the same city. He can justify moving on if I'm not local. It's what he wants.

He was always the one to break up with me but he was also the one to return within a few days. I'm trying to avoid wondering if I will ever hear from him again. I go about my daily life with the attitude that he finally meant what he said, that there was no going back this time and he was finished. I'm also working on believing that I, too, am finished. So far his actions and mine (NC) have backed that up. 

I am beginning to realize I may never lay eyes on the guy again in this lifetime. That thought makes me sad, but I have to face that possibility.   
Logged
DownandOut
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 260


« Reply #15 on: October 08, 2013, 05:33:47 PM »

In my experience, my ex wrote me off a final time after the last breakup, which he initiated. No recycle attempt in 3.5 months so far. He was really angry with me when we parted. Since I could tell he was serious the last time (actually, I thought he was serious with each breakup), I unleashed a lot of stuff I had been holding back. I stopped walking on eggshells, fed him some truth, agreed we were done, and that his abuse sucked.

I don't know if he jumped to a replacement, but he made it clear he wants nothing to do with me. I told him I didn't want to be part of his life either.

I do not believe he is keeping up with me from a distance. He blocked me on social media after the breakup (I blocked him first then unblocked after two weeks, only to see he immediately blocked me back) and I have not checked in a while whether I am unblocked. I think he made up his mind to completely cut me out and avoid any memories of our seven months together. He got fed up with the long distance relationship and I think for him it is easy to finally write me off because we are not in the same city. He can justify moving on if I'm not local. It's what he wants.

He was always the one to break up with me but he was also the one to return within a few days. I'm trying to avoid wondering if I will ever hear from him again. I go about my daily life with the attitude that he finally meant what he said, that there was no going back this time and he was finished. I'm also working on believing that I, too, am finished. So far his actions and mine (NC) have backed that up. 

I am beginning to realize I may never lay eyes on the guy again in this lifetime. That thought makes me sad, but I have to face that possibility.   

Wow, I got the chills reading your post. I initiated the break up this time because I just have too much self-respect to be treated the way I was. I was also in a LDR and she always said how she regretted that she didn't see the light when we were in the same city. However, the plan was for her to move to my city but it never came to fruition. Anyway, the point is that I believe she too got fed up with the long distance even though I told her that I would move to her city again (my job is flexible like that) but she always hated when I talked about moving to her city. She always wanted to move to me but I think she eventually got cold feet and that was one of our many problems. I think at this point she has easily convinced herself that because we don't live in the same city it can never be and it's easier to pretend all the times we had together mean absolutely nothing. I too am beginning to realize that I may never see this person again in my entire life and it's probably the most difficult thing to face. I actually prefaced my last text to her by reminding her that the last time we saw each other would truly be the last. I just didn't realize that that reality hurts more for me than it does for her.
Logged
UmbrellaBoy
***
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Gay, lesb
Posts: 116


« Reply #16 on: October 08, 2013, 06:11:53 PM »

Excerpt
You sure he has all his marbles?

LOL! Yes, I suppose it would be hard for him to "give me all the marbles" if he doesn't even have all of his. I like that! It's a good way to think of it. He lost his marbles at some point, and so he can't offer them all, because he doesn't have them all. Perhaps, perhaps.

Excerpt
I ask because if you feel that doubt about your decision and that letter it may be you need to contact him.  If you want to try it again. And you'll have to be the one to make the initial move.  If you are mulling around this doubt and do contact him post on the staying board for guidance.

That's what I don't know. I don't want to contact him only to be disappointed or strung-along again.

The truth is, I do love him and respect him so much. I trust his judgment on everything except, sadly, romantic relationships and his self-awareness regarding his own feelings and behavior relative to those relationships. In almost all other areas of his life except navigating romance and sexuality, he is completely functional and amazing. But in romance and sexuality, he is deeply damaged and broken in a very BPD sort of way (though he sometimes lets that manifest indirectly in other areas) and keeps going through these patterns (and not just with me).

But it's so frustrating because we "click" (and it's not just "mirroring," trust me, because I know what he's like even outside interaction with me) in almost every way, have similar values and interests and complementary personalities... .in everything except the question of commitment and intimacy and the relationship itself. All the "objective" criteria are perfect for both of us, we're soul mates, and he's admitted as much, it's only the "relative" relational requirements of what that sort of closeness implies about formalizing a commitment and place in each others lives and futures that he always breaks down about and gets confused and collapses in dread and terror about.

Engulfment fears, I think, exactly because we are so close. I think I remember him asking me once something that sounded so silly but also so sad, something like, "Well, just because two people are perfect for each other and in love, does that mean they have to be together? I don't like the idea of 'having to' do anything!" It's almost like he spoke, bizarrely, as if the relationship was "too perfect," like he didn't want to do something "just because it makes perfect sense" or because his "feelings were making" him do it (bizarrely speaking as if his feelings were something separate from himself... .)

So I guess the position I'm in is that, at this point, I want All or Nothing. Like I said, I either want no contact ever again OR for him to reappear in the position of the beggar and say, "You were right about everything. I don't know what's wrong with me. I love you. Help me. I'll do what you say. I no longer have any leverage here because I've been a flake so many times. You've got the power in this negotiation."

He dumped me and made it clear that no contact would be necessary for at least the foreseeable future. But I am haunted by the idea that maybe he has had inclinations of changing his mind (he certainly has before) but is now too embarrassed or ashamed to reach out yet again, to change his mind yet again, especially when I sent him that one last email saying that I was through with the back-and-forth and was closing the door on any future contact.

I would be kicking myself if I found out some day that he was inclined to break down and commit to therapy and to me, but was prevented merely by fear that I didn't want to hear from him (though, like I said, I think even in that letter I implied that I was only saying it "assuming that your mind hasn't changed." Implying that if his mind had changed, I was open to hearing it.)

At the same time, I don't want to reach out to him and say something like, "I'm sorry I said that, if you did want a relationship, I'd still be open to it" because then I'm afraid of not hearing back or him responding to that with a rejection, a "don't wait for me," or, worse, that giving him some validation, making me seem weak, or making him think that he could come back and string me along since he would then know that I was pliable, since I would have then "shown my hand" and therefore wouldn't be able to extract concessions like agreeing to see a therapist, since I wouldn't be the one in the position of power, I'd seem like the begging one who had exposed my desire for him first (and the person who exposes their desire first loses the power).

So for now I'm thinking it's best to just leave things as-is and hope that if he does want to contact me, he'll be desperate enough to ignore my "I don't want to hear from you" email (he's ignored stuff like that before!) and tell myself that, frankly, he would HAVE to be that desperate for me to even begin considering talking to him again, because if he is anything less than totally at rock-bottom, he's unlikely to change at all.
Logged

peas
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Relationship status: single
Posts: 376


« Reply #17 on: October 08, 2013, 06:58:53 PM »

DownandOut, our situations are similar. My exbf talked about moving to my city or me moving back to his city (where I lived and we met before a job offer took me out of town). I had my mind firmly set on seeing things through with him and not prolonging an LDR any longer than necessary. He claimed to be on board, but he couldn't follow through. He got so distracted with me not being there 24/7. It was all about his immediate needs not being met. I think he also got spooked when I showed him I was committed to being with him; perhaps the so-called engulfment set in. Although he talked about moving to my city, which has a lot more job opportunities than his economically depressed city, he really didn't want to leave his comfort zone. Even when he would talk about us getting a place together in my new city, I didn't believe him.

Also, he took my relocation personally, like it was a rejection of him even though I was desperate for work and had to take the job. I drove to him nearly every weekend to demonstrate I was willing to travel every possible chance to keep the r/s going. He just didn't want it after a while. He told me toward the end that my visits stressed him out. This, from someone who during idealization would count the hours til my next visit. 

Logged
DownandOut
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 260


« Reply #18 on: October 08, 2013, 07:12:52 PM »

DownandOut, our situations are similar. My exbf talked about moving to my city or me moving back to his city (where I lived and we met before a job offer took me out of town). I had my mind firmly set on seeing things through with him and not prolonging an LDR any longer than necessary. He claimed to be on board, but he couldn't follow through. He got so distracted with me not being there 24/7. It was all about his immediate needs not being met. I think he also got spooked when I showed him I was committed to being with him; perhaps the so-called engulfment set in. Although he talked about moving to my city, which has a lot more job opportunities than his economically depressed city, he really didn't want to leave his comfort zone. Even when he would talk about us getting a place together in my new city, I didn't believe him.

Also, he took my relocation personally, like it was a rejection of him even though I was desperate for work and had to take the job. I drove to him nearly every weekend to demonstrate I was willing to travel every possible chance to keep the r/s going. He just didn't want it after a while. He told me toward the end that my visits stressed him out. This, from someone who during idealization would count the hours til my next visit. 

It's amazing, that's exactly what I went through. She kept telling me to find an apartment and I told her that I would look when we got back from a vacation together. She would get upset with me that I wasn't actively looking for a place to stay every day. It was strange considering how it ended.

All this pressure to speed up the process and she went and found someone else but wouldn't break it off with me. It was like she was waiting to see how it turned out with me before she would commit to letting me go (ironic that it was the only thing she could commit to). She told me that she wasn't sure how she felt but "she didn't want to lose me." Well, I left. The thing that hurts me the most is that she's able to convince herself that it wasn't meant to be because of their uncanny ability to suppress emotions. The distance just makes that worse.
Logged
eeyore
********
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Relationship status: in a relationship
Posts: 5927



« Reply #19 on: October 08, 2013, 07:19:36 PM »

And the fact... .

That your ex knows... .

He can successfully recycle you... .

Increases the chances significantly... .

For him to try and contact you again.

Since he knows he can come right back into your life... .

Again and again... .

Why would he all of a sudden change that behavior... .?

Even if he is with someone else... .

Yep, I allowed him back too many times and now it's the same old recycling.  Thanks for the reminder.
Logged
peas
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Relationship status: single
Posts: 376


« Reply #20 on: October 08, 2013, 07:36:09 PM »

Excerpt
The thing that hurts me the most is that she's able to convince herself that it wasn't meant to be because of their uncanny ability to suppress emotions. The distance just makes that worse.

Yes. That is one of the hardest feelings I have, how I might be easily dismissed because I'm not there. I had this feeling during the r/s and it was a big source of anxiety for me. It was exhausting trying to minimize or erase the possibility that the distance would cause him to withdraw.
Logged
DownandOut
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 260


« Reply #21 on: October 08, 2013, 07:44:31 PM »

Excerpt
The thing that hurts me the most is that she's able to convince herself that it wasn't meant to be because of their uncanny ability to suppress emotions. The distance just makes that worse.

Yes. That is one of the hardest feelings I have, how I might be easily dismissed because I'm not there. I had this feeling during the r/s and it was a big source of anxiety for me. It was exhausting trying to minimize or erase the possibility that the distance would cause him to withdraw.

The sad part is I had 100% trust in her and I thought that the distance would allow us to take it a bit slower (as opposed to the first round where we went 160mph). I thought we could make the relationship grow and eventually end up together in the same city and grow from there. It was her that was constantly reaching out for updates as to what i was doing, where I was, who i was with. She got very upset when she found out that I went to hang out with two old schoolmates that she knew and I didn't tell her. Her exact words "we talk all the time how did you fail to mention that." The truth is it wasn't that important, and we were talking that day but I didn't mention it because I didn't find it important enough to mention considering we just had a cup of coffee for about an hour. Even when she went out with her friends and told me that "her ex bf would be there" I didn't get upset. I loved her, I trusted that she loved me so I had nothing to worry about. Even then she would text me constantly. Now, I'm no one and that kills me.
Logged
peas
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Relationship status: single
Posts: 376


« Reply #22 on: October 08, 2013, 08:02:02 PM »

First:
Excerpt
Now, I'm no one

You are not no one. Unless she has amnesia, you are in her memory. I believe I am someone to my ex, but I'm a past someone. My ex was divorced and he told me about his ex-wife and about some of his ex-girlfriends before me.

Next:
Excerpt
I thought that the distance would allow us to take it a bit slower (as opposed to the first round where we went 160mph). I thought we could make the relationship grow and eventually end up together in the same city.

Same. I, too, thought the distance would slow things down and allow us to naturally develop. We started hot and heavy and I sometimes liked that I wasn't accessible during the week. Gave us both some space. A few times after idealization, when he was more sober thinking, he said he wanted to take it slow and not make the mistakes he made with his failed marriage, where he and his ex moved in together too quick. He even said "let's give it a year." He did maintain he wanted us to marry. He just wanted to be sure we were doing it right.

Then he devalued and we had a blow-out argument and in the turn of a moment our r/s was gone.

Logged
fromheeltoheal
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Broken up, I left her
Posts: 5642


« Reply #23 on: October 08, 2013, 08:06:18 PM »

Remember BPD is an attachment disorder, and a BPD MUST attach to someone to feel whole, which is a big motivator; they don't do well on their own

Does this always include intimate relationships or just anybody. after this last time myexBPDgf become extremely close with a female co-worker 25 years younger then her. now they act like teenage girls, dress alike, posing for picture togther. the friend is in a relationship but her bf works out of town alot. The younger friend has even moved in with my exBPDgf a few nights a week. They hang togther all the time.

and since she has this, the recycle attempts have been longer and aint near as intese as in the past. Im just curious.

A 'romantic' relationship to us, the one with the idealization, the mirroring, the projection (stuff everyone does BTW, but for different reasons than a BPD and usually to a lesser extent) is a replacement of the BPD's primary caregiver, usually their mother, in their psyche.  BPD is an attachment disorder, borne out of the BPD never having detached from their mother and endured the abandonment depression, so we get to unknowingly become stand-ins for the primary caregiver and subjected to the abandonment/engulfment push/pull psychic drama between their ears, and everyone here knows how that feels.  Very interesting info is available on the psychological processes that result from the way they were raised, worth digging if you're interested, it helped me make a great deal of sense of what happened.

The hanging out with youngsters thing is a different issue.  My BPD was 45 and considered her 17 year old daughter her best friend, in fact the daughter was the 'adult' in the relationship.  Her 28 year old son and 27 year old daughter intimidated her.  She had had a string of 25 year old boyfriends before me.  She had no problem connecting with young people as equals, but seemed to get lost with adults, and just fake it.  All of that stemmed from the fact that a BPD is emotionally arrested, and stopped maturing right around when all the trauma happened in their youth; I'd say emotionally mine was about 14 and very clueless about the world.  Sounds like something similar could be going on with yours?
Logged
DragoN
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 996


« Reply #24 on: October 08, 2013, 11:08:45 PM »

Excerpt
Thanks Sabratha, your point is key.  The cluster B personality disorder called BPD includes "a pattern of marked impulsivity and instability of affects, interpersonal relationships, and self image." 

Humans go through a lot of moods, especially when processing trauma, and who's to say a person's instability of affect is marked.  Having lived it and been shocked by it, I'd say we experienced marked, although it is a continuum, and who's to draw the line?  Not us, we aren't professionals, and after all it's about our healing anyway.

Thankyou heeltoheal , it's  a continuum, and I am aware that these sorts of emotional swings are not normal for me at all. I find it really disconcerting. It is about my healing and letting go and just carrying on the best I can.

Unlike many here, there is no social media drama in my r/s and by the looks of it, that's a very good thing. Mind you, didn't bother checking if he was back on dating sites. And if he is... .good luck to him, she can have him.
Logged
GreenMango
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 4328



« Reply #25 on: October 09, 2013, 10:18:40 AM »

Excerpt
You sure he has all his marbles?

LOL! Yes, I suppose it would be hard for him to "give me all the marbles" if he doesn't even have all of his. I like that! It's a good way to think of it. He lost his marbles at some point, and so he can't offer them all, because he doesn't have them all. Perhaps, perhaps.

Excerpt
I ask because if you feel that doubt about your decision and that letter it may be you need to contact him.  If you want to try it again. And you'll have to be the one to make the initial move.  If you are mulling around this doubt and do contact him post on the staying board for guidance.

That's what I don't know. I don't want to contact him only to be disappointed or strung-along again.

The truth is, I do love him and respect him so much. I trust his judgment on everything except, sadly, romantic relationships and his self-awareness regarding his own feelings and behavior relative to those relationships. In almost all other areas of his life except navigating romance and sexuality, he is completely functional and amazing. But in romance and sexuality, he is deeply damaged and broken in a very BPD sort of way (though he sometimes lets that manifest indirectly in other areas) and keeps going through these patterns (and not just with me).

But it's so frustrating because we "click" (and it's not just "mirroring," trust me, because I know what he's like even outside interaction with me) in almost every way, have similar values and interests and complementary personalities... .in everything except the question of commitment and intimacy and the relationship itself. All the "objective" criteria are perfect for both of us, we're soul mates, and he's admitted as much, it's only the "relative" relational requirements of what that sort of closeness implies about formalizing a commitment and place in each others lives and futures that he always breaks down about and gets confused and collapses in dread and terror about.

Engulfment fears, I think, exactly because we are so close. I think I remember him asking me once something that sounded so silly but also so sad, something like, "Well, just because two people are perfect for each other and in love, does that mean they have to be together? I don't like the idea of 'having to' do anything!" It's almost like he spoke, bizarrely, as if the relationship was "too perfect," like he didn't want to do something "just because it makes perfect sense" or because his "feelings were making" him do it (bizarrely speaking as if his feelings were something separate from himself... .)

So I guess the position I'm in is that, at this point, I want All or Nothing. Like I said, I either want no contact ever again OR for him to reappear in the position of the beggar and say, "You were right about everything. I don't know what's wrong with me. I love you. Help me. I'll do what you say. I no longer have any leverage here because I've been a flake so many times. You've got the power in this negotiation."

He dumped me and made it clear that no contact would be necessary for at least the foreseeable future. But I am haunted by the idea that maybe he has had inclinations of changing his mind (he certainly has before) but is now too embarrassed or ashamed to reach out yet again, to change his mind yet again, especially when I sent him that one last email saying that I was through with the back-and-forth and was closing the door on any future contact.

I would be kicking myself if I found out some day that he was inclined to break down and commit to therapy and to me, but was prevented merely by fear that I didn't want to hear from him (though, like I said, I think even in that letter I implied that I was only saying it "assuming that your mind hasn't changed." Implying that if his mind had changed, I was open to hearing it.)

At the same time, I don't want to reach out to him and say something like, "I'm sorry I said that, if you did want a relationship, I'd still be open to it" because then I'm afraid of not hearing back or him responding to that with a rejection, a "don't wait for me," or, worse, that giving him some validation, making me seem weak, or making him think that he could come back and string me along since he would then know that I was pliable, since I would have then "shown my hand" and therefore wouldn't be able to extract concessions like agreeing to see a therapist, since I wouldn't be the one in the position of power, I'd seem like the begging one who had exposed my desire for him first (and the person who exposes their desire first loses the power).

So for now I'm thinking it's best to just leave things as-is and hope that if he does want to contact me, he'll be desperate enough to ignore my "I don't want to hear from you" email (he's ignored stuff like that before!) and tell myself that, frankly, he would HAVE to be that desperate for me to even begin considering talking to him again, because if he is anything less than totally at rock-bottom, he's unlikely to change at all.

Sometimes thinking about your bottom line or boundaries and letting that define your response can help take that pressure or fear off.  Then no matter what kind of off the wall stuff happens, be it the "how are you email?" Or sideways fishing for attention, you kind of know what way you are going with it.

Did you leave it as he needs to get into therapy for the relationship to continue?
Logged

Escaped 30.Sept.2013
***
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 146


« Reply #26 on: October 09, 2013, 12:19:48 PM »

A lot of "me too! Same here!" reading these... .

Mine said over and again that LDRs "never work, in my experience", and my replacement not only lives further away, but in another country! Go figure, as they say... .

Facebook played a huge role, as with many others. I think FB may be one of the worst things ever invented when it comes to BPDs and relationships... .

Before I consciously and deliberately started the process of moving on, with therapy, I did get to see the first defriending-and-then-refriending of my replacement, on the very day he came back from a week with her, his second visit to her. So, he is already starting the push-pull-push-pull dance... .and many months sooner than he started it with me. Despite changing his FB to "in a relationship" which he never did before with anyone, and not with me.

A friend who has known my replacement for twenty years says she is the least sympathetic woman she's ever known, incredibly intolerant of having anyone in her minimalist, immaculate and very tiny apartment, and also is highly critical of what she regards as "whining".

I find it interesting that the most recent contact from my ex, on the 6th Oct, including allegations that I whined all the time. I suspect he is projecting onto me something he is currently defending himself about... .

So although I no longer see anything either of them does or says anywhere on FB, I reckon she's already on her way out, having already been devalued once.

It helps me, to feel that she means no more to him than I did. When I believed she was somehow "better" than me, it hurt. Now I understand more (thanks to this board and the messages posted here), I understand that his obsessive love for me twenty years ago most likely caused an idealisation of me during 19 years of having no contact, and that I mean far more to him than any other woman. It is terribly sad, but I'm just really glad I got out after 15 months and not longer... .
Logged
Ironmanrises
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 1774


« Reply #27 on: October 09, 2013, 12:49:02 PM »

A lot of "me too! Same here!" reading these... .

Mine said over and again that LDRs "never work, in my experience", and my replacement not only lives further away, but in another country! Go figure, as they say... .

Facebook played a huge role, as with many others. I think FB may be one of the worst things ever invented when it comes to BPDs and relationships... .

Before I consciously and deliberately started the process of moving on, with therapy, I did get to see the first defriending-and-then-refriending of my replacement, on the very day he came back from a week with her, his second visit to her. So, he is already starting the push-pull-push-pull dance... .and many months sooner than he started it with me. Despite changing his FB to "in a relationship" which he never did before with anyone, and not with me.

A friend who has known my replacement for twenty years says she is the least sympathetic woman she's ever known, incredibly intolerant of having anyone in her minimalist, immaculate and very tiny apartment, and also is highly critical of what she regards as "whining".

I find it interesting that the most recent contact from my ex, on the 6th Oct, including allegations that I whined all the time. I suspect he is projecting onto me something he is currently defending himself about... .

So although I no longer see anything either of them does or says anywhere on FB, I reckon she's already on her way out, having already been devalued once.

It helps me, to feel that she means no more to him than I did. When I believed she was somehow "better" than me, it hurt. Now I understand more (thanks to this board and the messages posted here), I understand that his obsessive love for me twenty years ago most likely caused an idealisation of me during 19 years of having no contact, and that I mean far more to him than any other woman. It is terribly sad, but I'm just really glad I got out after 15 months and not longer... .

In bold.

If that is the case... .

He will/most likely increase... .

His attempts to re engage you.

And her too.

Probably/most likely... .

At the same time.

So while he is sending you messages... .

There is a very disturbing possibility... .

That those same messages... .

Will be sent to her as well.

That is BPD.

A pattern of behavior.

It doesn't stop.
Logged
Escaped 30.Sept.2013
***
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 146


« Reply #28 on: October 09, 2013, 12:56:10 PM »

Oh yes, IronManFalls, I agree - he's probably wildly alternating between dismissing me from his thoughts and life, and dismissing her ditto, and swapping us frantically back and forth in his mind just now!

But from *my* point of view, what matters to me is that she is not "better" than me - she's getting exactly the same treatment, at an even faster pace, as I got. So whether they stay together, whether they split, whatever the two of them do, I KNOW that she is not some kind of magically-better woman who he is suddenly normal and respectful and healthy with.

Do you see what I mean?

At first, I was haunted by my rejection by him - I have my own childhood issues meaning I fear that everyone will always prefer someone else to me, that I will never ever be on the same level as others, but always one step lower.

Because I can see that BPD pattern already swinging into action with my replacement, it means that he is following the same behaviour.

So it wasn't just me, it wasn't that I didn't try hard enough, I wasn't loving enough, I wasn't this, I wasn't that... .

... .it was that he has a major mental condition that renders him unable to form healthy close emotional relationships, and unable to sustain what he does form.

In his own words... .It's not me, it's him.

It truly is.
Logged
Ironmanrises
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 1774


« Reply #29 on: October 09, 2013, 01:20:59 PM »

Oh yes, IronManFalls, I agree - he's probably wildly alternating between dismissing me from his thoughts and life, and dismissing her ditto, and swapping us frantically back and forth in his mind just now!

But from *my* point of view, what matters to me is that she is not "better" than me - she's getting exactly the same treatment, at an even faster pace, as I got. So whether they stay together, whether they split, whatever the two of them do, I KNOW that she is not some kind of magically-better woman who he is suddenly normal and respectful and healthy with.

Do you see what I mean?

At first, I was haunted by my rejection by him - I have my own childhood issues meaning I fear that everyone will always prefer someone else to me, that I will never ever be on the same level as others, but always one step lower.

Because I can see that BPD pattern already swinging into action with my replacement, it means that he is following the same behaviour.

So it wasn't just me, it wasn't that I didn't try hard enough, I wasn't loving enough, I wasn't this, I wasn't that... .

... .it was that he has a major mental condition that renders him unable to form healthy close emotional relationships, and unable to sustain what he does form.

In his own words... .It's not me, it's him.

It truly is.

In bold.

Yes.

Absolutely.



Logged
Can You Help Us Stay on the Air in 2021?

Pages: [1] 2 3  All   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Our 2020 Financial Sponsors
We are all appreciative of the members who provide the funding to keep BPDFamily on the air.
40days_in_desert
Ahquei3s
alphabeta
Amethyste
Angie59
ArtistGuy70
AskingWhy
assumezero
At Bay
Avanzando
Baglady
Beneck
bigredneck
Bittlecat
Boll Weevil
calmboom
Cat Familiar
Chosen
Dnmtnbkr
drained1996
Eggshellsbroken
FaintTheGoat
FaithHopeLove
FindingMe2011
Forgiveness
freespirit
GaGrl
ggGreg
Gift to Myself
gotbushels
Harri
hopeandchoices
I Am Redeemed
Imatter33
Jazzy48
jdc
jones54
Jonthan
Katrinalove
Kwamina
l8kgrl
LLgreen
Longterm
lorymac
lovenature
loyalwife
lucidone
Manifest32f
MariannaR
Meridius
Methuen
mgirl
Minttea
Mommydoc
Mutt
narcdaughter2
needPeace
NorseWoman
Notgoneyet
oceanheart
oftentimes
Omega1
once removed
Only Human
otherlife
palynne
PeacefulMom
Pedro
pest947
podsnapG
ProudDad12
pursuingJoy
Radcliff
Raul
Recycle
Resiliant
Rev
Rosheger
Sad4Her
SamwizeGamgee
Sandalwood
SBBayArea
SCM
SerendipityChild
SES
Silverhope
Skip
songbirdtwo
StillStuck
Swimmy55
Teno
townhouse
truthbeknown
turtleengine501
Ventak
vinnie77
Violet00
wavewatcher
wendydarling
WhatJustHappened?
Whichwayisup
whirlpoollife
Wicker Man
WindofChange
worn_out
WTL
zachira
zaqsert

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2006-2020, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!