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Author Topic: When They Dump You: Recycling Questions  (Read 11680 times)
fromheeltoheal
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« Reply #30 on: October 09, 2013, 03:11:34 PM »

But from *my* point of view, what matters to me is that she is not "better" than me - she's getting exactly the same treatment, at an even faster pace, as I got. So whether they stay together, whether they split, whatever the two of them do, I KNOW that she is not some kind of magically-better woman who he is suddenly normal and respectful and healthy with.

Do you see what I mean?

She's in the idealization phase, maybe towards the end, and you're in the devaluation stage.  It's a flow-through system and the only winner is the disorder; a BPD gets massively hurt too, every time their next fantasy gets a reality check and yet another mate is not perfect.  And none of that has anything to do with you or her.

At first, I was haunted by my rejection by him - I have my own childhood issues meaning I fear that everyone will always prefer someone else to me, that I will never ever be on the same level as others, but always one step lower.

So it wasn't just me, it wasn't that I didn't try hard enough, I wasn't loving enough, I wasn't this, I wasn't that... .

We all struggle with feeling 'less than' or 'not good enough'.  Lately I've been looking at the difference between shame and guilt, and reading Brene Brown's books, Daring Greatly specifically, and they've helped a lot.  It's easy for folks like us to assume it's something we did that caused the abuse and the demise, and sometimes it is, but not in this case; we were enmeshed with a serious mental illness, and the most confident, self-assured human on the planet would have met the same demise.
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Escaped 30.Sept.2013
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« Reply #31 on: October 10, 2013, 01:58:58 AM »

 It's easy for folks like us to assume it's something we did that caused the abuse and the demise, and sometimes it is, but not in this case; we were enmeshed with a serious mental illness, and the most confident, self-assured human on the planet would have met the same demise.

I believe now that a more confident, self-assured person than me would never have stayed for 15 days, let alone 15 months.

So I think it takes two to tango, and I am working hard with my therapist on why I fell so far down the rabbit-hole, and why I stayed and ignored all those Red Flags from early on... .my craving for love and affection, and my lack of understanding of how those work between two healthy-minded people, and my ready willingness to put up with being treated badly because I somehow equated attention with affection.

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Learning_curve74
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« Reply #32 on: October 10, 2013, 04:53:14 AM »

That's what I don't know. I don't want to contact him only to be disappointed or strung-along again.

The truth is, I do love him and respect him so much. I trust his judgment on everything except, sadly, romantic relationships and his self-awareness regarding his own feelings and behavior relative to those relationships. In almost all other areas of his life except navigating romance and sexuality, he is completely functional and amazing. But in romance and sexuality, he is deeply damaged and broken in a very BPD sort of way (though he sometimes lets that manifest indirectly in other areas) and keeps going through these patterns (and not just with me).

It sounds like you have your own answer here but maybe you don't want to accept it?

It sounds like you want some guarantee that you won't get burned again. That's not realistic BPD or not.

If we want love in a romantic relationship, then being vulnerable is a requirement to receiving it. When you start talking about power like you did, then we are talking more along the lines of a master/servant relationship or at the very least something drama-filled. Which is ok if that's what you're into but that doesn't sound like the case?

You sound like someone who wants to "game the system." Are you going to be satisfied if you have to play games throughout the entire relationship just to keep it afloat? And how accepting can you be of failure if that's what it comes to?
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fromheeltoheal
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« Reply #33 on: October 10, 2013, 09:09:15 AM »

 It's easy for folks like us to assume it's something we did that caused the abuse and the demise, and sometimes it is, but not in this case; we were enmeshed with a serious mental illness, and the most confident, self-assured human on the planet would have met the same demise.

I believe now that a more confident, self-assured person than me would never have stayed for 15 days, let alone 15 months.

So I think it takes two to tango, and I am working hard with my therapist on why I fell so far down the rabbit-hole, and why I stayed and ignored all those Red Flags from early on... .my craving for love and affection, and my lack of understanding of how those work between two healthy-minded people, and my ready willingness to put up with being treated badly because I somehow equated attention with affection.

Great questions and great work Escaped.  You struck a chord for me; I too equated attention with affection.  In the beginning attention was enough, and I always knew where I wanted to go with the relationship, from attention to affection, which to me is a normal progression, but we never got there, I got abused instead, and yet, I stuck around much longer than I should have.  Right now I'm blaming optimism; sure she's raging now, but we're just going through a phase, and once we work through it things will look and feel like this awesome union in my head.  Reality check required.
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UmbrellaBoy
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« Reply #34 on: October 10, 2013, 01:11:04 PM »

You're right, learningcurve, I've gotten to the point where I don't want to make myself vulnerable anymore. I guess that is an "answer," isn't it? I made myself so incredibly vulnerable for three years, and finally I've gotten to the point where I couldn't stand yet another disappointment or rejection from this person. But maybe that means I don't want to be vulnerable with him anymore, and maybe that means I'm not really in love anymore?

Yes, so much of our relationship was games, and boy they were entertaining at first, such a challenge. They hurt a lot too, but every time I managed to keep things afloat it was a rush. Now I realize, though, that it probably wasn't me keeping things afloat at all, really. I didn't "win him back," for example, the BPD made it inevitable that he'd come back like a boomerang all those times no matter what I did. It wasn't some triumph on my part, no feat of skill or proof of the heroism of my love. Just me being codependent enough to stick around. Ugh.

And yet, if he did come back in such a way as to hand me the power... .I'm not sure how I'd use it. I still can't say I'd use it to say "I'm done, I don't need you, good bye!" There's still a chance I'd try to use it, if I truly had it (and, given their games, that's a big if) to get him into therapy and to commit in more irrevocable ways to "us." But is that even what I want anymore, or do I just want to "win" at this point? It hurts so much and is so confusing.
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Escaped 30.Sept.2013
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« Reply #35 on: October 10, 2013, 01:15:16 PM »

And yet, if he did come back in such a way as to hand me the power... .I'm not sure how I'd use it. I still can't say I'd use it to say "I'm done, I don't need you, good bye!" There's still a chance I'd try to use it, if I truly had it (and, given their games, that's a big if) to get him into therapy and to commit in more irrevocable ways to "us." But is that even what I want anymore, or do I just want to "win" at this point? It hurts so much and is so confusing.

If it helps, one thing my therapist pointed out when I said much the same thing about my ex, was:

"if your ex had proper treatment, and the years of therapy to become a healthy-minded person, then he would probably not find you attractive, because he would no longer want a codependent relationship, but a healthy normal relationship"

That made me think.

A lot.

I was *bargaining* - if he got treatment, then I'd get back with him... .and it was a bit of a shock to ahve it pointed out that if he got treatment, then I would no longer be wanted by him.

The corollary is what I'm working on now: as I get treatment and stop being a codependent person, then I will no longer find him attractive, because I will only want a normal healthy interdependent relationship with a mentyally-healthy person.

It's happening, slowly but steadily.
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Learning_curve74
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« Reply #36 on: October 11, 2013, 03:35:44 AM »

If it helps, one thing my therapist pointed out when I said much the same thing about my ex, was:

"if your ex had proper treatment, and the years of therapy to become a healthy-minded person, then he would probably not find you attractive, because he would no longer want a codependent relationship, but a healthy normal relationship"

That made me think.

A lot.

I was *bargaining* - if he got treatment, then I'd get back with him... .and it was a bit of a shock to ahve it pointed out that if he got treatment, then I would no longer be wanted by him.

The corollary is what I'm working on now: as I get treatment and stop being a codependent person, then I will no longer find him attractive, because I will only want a normal healthy interdependent relationship with a mentyally-healthy person.

It's happening, slowly but steadily.

YES! Great insight there, Escaped!  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

As a pwBPD or a codependent gets treatment and grows as a person, they may find themselves so different from whom they used to be that they will no longer love the other partner.

It makes me even wonder if my exBPDgf didn't have BPD and didn't engage in the heavy mirroring and love-bombing, would I ever have fallen for her as hard as I did? Maybe, maybe not. That's a lot to think about! 
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peas
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« Reply #37 on: October 11, 2013, 01:12:57 PM »

I think I would have fallen in love with my ex regardless of the idealization. I liked his looks, personality and hanging out with him right away, before I saw any adverse behavior. The idealization just drove it home.
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GreenMango
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« Reply #38 on: October 11, 2013, 02:40:14 PM »

Excerpt
And yet, if he did come back in such a way as to hand me the power... .I'm not sure how I'd use it.

Umbrella that power you've talked about seems important with regards to him.  It sounds like you need full capitulation from him to feel safe.

That power struggle especially with a person is an ugly place it turns into a war for control.

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UmbrellaBoy
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« Reply #39 on: October 11, 2013, 07:57:06 PM »

Yeah, and that in turn just triggers his Engulfment fears.

And yet, after being burned so many times it's impossible to have Trust. And the less trust you have, the more you cling or try to control.

But it's not like I want control for its own sake. I'd only want him to surrender the power to me long enough to stabilize him, guide him into therapy, and get "us" to a place where I could trust I wasn't going to be burned again.

I know control is an issue for me. I may lean a little OCPD myself, and I've heard people with Cluster C tendencies attract those with Cluster B. My guy liked my "in control" way of thinking and behavior, because I "had it all together" (to an obsessive degree!), whereas his inner life was chaotic and out of control. And, yeah, his "slippery" emotionality was a thrill and a challenge for me, it intrigued and so enticed me... .
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« Reply #40 on: October 12, 2013, 12:46:21 AM »

He may have liked it at first but I'd bet dollars to donuts it sparked a rebellious streak.

It is hard to trust after things like this.  Being transparent and honest communication helps.

The irony is even if you had this control to guide him is there really any control over whether it takes? Ultimately he's going to do what he does per his standards.  Would it ever be enough?
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« Reply #41 on: October 12, 2013, 02:16:21 AM »

But it's not like I want control for its own sake. I'd only want him to surrender the power to me long enough to stabilize him, guide him into therapy, and get "us" to a place where I could trust I wasn't going to be burned again.

I know control is an issue for me.

Ummm... .to be a bit blunter than I usually am, way up at the start of this discussion, your wording leapt out at me, I have to admit.

you said "I either want no contact ever again OR for him to reappear in the position of the beggar and say, "You were right about everything. I don't know what's wrong with me. I love you. Help me. I'll do what you say. I no longer have any leverage here because I've been a flake so many times. You've got the power in this negotiation.""

"for him to reappear in the position of the beggar and say, "You were right about everything""

I don't know the two of you, but... .well, wouldn't a less-control-y thing to want be something like "for him to reappear and say "Help me, I don't know what's wrong with me, I love you""? Rather than leading with "You were right" and above all "him in the position of the beggar?

I think your insight here into your own control issues might be key to helping you let go and move on.

but I could be wrong - I only know what you have posted here!

Take care of yourself... .
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Learning_curve74
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« Reply #42 on: October 12, 2013, 02:54:30 AM »

And yet, after being burned so many times it's impossible to have Trust. And the less trust you have, the more you cling or try to control.

What you write is very interesting! Why didn't you write, "And the less trust you have, the less involved you want to be"? If you had a friend or a co-worker who you realized you couldn't trust, wouldn't you tend to distance yourself from them rather than trying to get closer or trying to control them?
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UmbrellaBoy
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« Reply #43 on: October 12, 2013, 10:00:23 PM »

Excerpt
I don't know the two of you, but... .well, wouldn't a less-control-y thing to want be something like "for him to reappear and say "Help me, I don't know what's wrong with me, I love you"?

Yes, I would have wanted that... .before the last 2 or 3 recycles! That would have been enough.

In fact, it was enough, back then... .to rope me back in.

But the problem was there was no accountability "built into" those sentiments. So now I'm at a point where I have to fee like... .only a "surrender" of interpersonal power would give any hope of success.

The problem with the plain old "help me" line... .is that when the problem is a problem with their own selfhood, their own agency, merely asking for help is only progress for as long as they are willing to TAKE the help. It doesn't involve any sort of "binding of the future self" and so they can always just withdraw when they change again.

If he came back, I'd need him to do and say things in such a way that it would put him in a bind even in the future, make it more difficult emotionally and socially for him to retract. In other words, he has to offer something that I can "hold over" him in order to hold him accountable to actually following through with the help I'd offer.

Until I get something like that, it's fruitless to even entertain any contact with him anymore.

So, yes, if he wanted my "help" again... .it couldn't just be empty gestures this time. This time, the "treaty" would have to have "teeth," would have to come with enforcement mechanisms that would let me be able to feel that I wasn't just getting involved in another project that could fall apart as soon as his mind/heart waffles yet again (given that the whole point of the project would be to deal with that very waffling!) He'd have to give me "power" to actually get things done in spite of his own potential future resistance (as that potential future resistance is the very problem we'd be trying to address).

I'm not going to give him any unilateral promises anymore. The "contract" would have to include two-sided "consideration" as they say in law. There would have to be something I could hold over him if he didn't fulfill his end of it. Because otherwise there's nothing I can do except hope he doesn't flake out again, which I know he will! So if he wanted me back, he'd have to give me something I could use to get him back on track the next time he does flake.

"Help me" at this point would have to mean "hold me accountable." But "hold me accountable" has to include some mechanism for holding him accountable.

Excerpt
What you write is very interesting! Why didn't you write, "And the less trust you have, the less involved you want to be"? If you had a friend or a co-worker who you realized you couldn't trust, wouldn't you tend to distance yourself from them rather than trying to get closer or trying to control them?

Yup. True. But then, I'm not in love with them. But that's my codependency I guess... .
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Ironmanrises
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« Reply #44 on: October 12, 2013, 10:24:22 PM »

Umbrella... .

All these things you mention... .

Would make perfect sense... .

To a non... .

As they are... .

Reasonable... .

And coherent... .

Things... .

Based on logic.

But therein... .

Is the problem... .

Someone with BPD... .

Will not... .

Cannot... .

Wont... .

Doesnt want to... .

Doesnt care to... .

Doesnt know how to... .

Be reasonable... .

Coherent... .

Accountable... .

And have logic... .

When... .

Their very disorder... .

Exists... .

To deny... .

Themselves... .

Of having any of those things.

I wanted the very same things... .

You wrote... .

When my exUBPDgf... .

Came back to me... .

In round 2.

She appeared... .

To show me... .

Those very things... .

Until... .

The very day she was triggered.

All of that... .

Went out the window... .

On that day.

There was no more... .

Reasoning... .

Accountability... .

And what not.

Vanished.

There was never holding her accountable.

That is the unfortunate... .

And awful... .

Realization... .

That i have to accept.

It is not easy to accept.

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UmbrellaBoy
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« Reply #45 on: October 12, 2013, 10:34:53 PM »

This is why he'd have to agree to get his parents and friends involved. There's nothing I can do, alone, to hold him accountable. I have nothing "over" him, and there's nothing he can really give me to hold over him to keep him accountable. His parents and closest friends are a different matter (for example, his parents still give him insurance and pay his rent while he's in grad school). If we talked to his parents, for example, and he described his problems to them (instead of just admitting them to me) and he said directly to them "The problem is I may flake out in a few weeks or months again, and when/if I do, I need you to hold me accountable and to demand that I stay in therapy"... .then I believe they would probably do so, and he'd have no choice.

But if he refuses to do something to "bind his future self" like that, then I'll know his cries for "help!" are so much crap and refuse to give into them.
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« Reply #46 on: October 12, 2013, 10:42:36 PM »

Umbrellaboy, your desire to have some form of accountability from your partner is normal and understandable. BUT, with BPD your are banging your head against the proverbial wall of denial and instability.

Excerpt
"I don't know what I want, I'm so confused."

From your first post. And that is at the core of the problem. They really don't know. When they have you, they devalue you, and when you leave, they idealize you and want you back. And it's the wash rinse repeat cycle that grinds your heart into a mangled hash of hamburger meat.

You want accountability, but that requires a sense of responsibility which they lack as any fault or error is projected everywhere else but at themselves. Catch22 and the Self Fulfilling Prophecy all rolled into one.

Pretty words, lovely lyrics, empty promises are the world of BPD romance. If you buy into it without Actions following up his "words" you are at fault for the heart break that will ensue because you are already aware you cannot trust him.

Excerpt
"Help me" at this point would have to mean "hold me accountable." But "hold me accountable" has to include some mechanism for holding him accountable.

He is an adult. If you have to more or less black mail a person into a relationship, who wants that?

If being straight up and honest with him doesn't work. What's the point? He doesn't respect your feelings. He's jerking your chain because he knows you care. But that can only work for so long as you allow the chain to be jerked. Remove the collar. When he knows what he wants , hear him out, otherwise? It's like trying to hold smoke.

They don't know what they want until you're gone. 
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Ironmanrises
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« Reply #47 on: October 12, 2013, 10:52:48 PM »

Umbrellaboy, your desire to have some form of accountability from your partner is normal and understandable. BUT, with BPD your are banging your head against the proverbial wall of denial and instability.

Excerpt
"I don't know what I want, I'm so confused."

From your first post. And that is at the core of the problem. They really don't know. When they have you, they devalue you, and when you leave, they idealize you and want you back. And it's the wash rinse repeat cycle that grinds your heart into a mangled hash of hamburger meat.

You want accountability, but that requires a sense of responsibility which they lack as any fault or error is projected everywhere else but at themselves. Catch22 and the Self Fulfilling Prophecy all rolled into one.

Pretty words, lovely lyrics, empty promises are the world of BPD romance. If you buy into it without Actions following up his "words" you are at fault for the heart break that will ensue because you are already aware you cannot trust him.

Excerpt
"Help me" at this point would have to mean "hold me accountable." But "hold me accountable" has to include some mechanism for holding him accountable.

He is an adult. If you have to more or less black mail a person into a relationship, who wants that?

If being straight up and honest with him doesn't work. What's the point? He doesn't respect your feelings. He's jerking your chain because he knows you care. But that can only work for so long as you allow the chain to be jerked. Remove the collar. When he knows what he wants , hear him out, otherwise? It's like trying to hold smoke.

They don't know what they want until you're gone. 

In bold.

Spot on Sabartha.

Umbrella... .

In bold... .

Even if you managed... .

To get his family and friends... .

To exert that accountability... .

Over him... .

What is written in bold... .

Will occur... .

Regardless.

Their disorder will still surface.

And f¥ck all that up inevitably.

I know what you are trying to say... .

I get that... .

But that would work... .

For a non... .

Whose thought processes... .

Are stable.
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UmbrellaBoy
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« Reply #48 on: October 12, 2013, 11:26:08 PM »

Excerpt
He is an adult. If you have to more or less black mail a person into a relationship, who wants that?

Well, not into the relationship, but into therapy.

I know the people here are right.

The thing is, he's already gone. 9 weeks now. This is just me setting up my boundaries for IF he were to ever come back.

Maybe imagining that he'd seriously agree to go right over to his parents house (no stalling!) and tell them everything and set up an appointment with the therapist is unrealistic. But that's fine: if it's not going to happen, then that just means, practically speaking, I'm not going to take him back!

If my "non-negotiables" are extremely unlikely, then that just means me taking him back is unlikely. And I'm fine with that (though I do have to imagine that therapy must sometimes work).
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« Reply #49 on: October 12, 2013, 11:42:52 PM »

Understand what you mean. Want him to be accountable to go into therapy and you will support him.

Excerpt
Maybe imagining that he'd seriously agree to go right over to his parents house (no stalling!) and tell them everything and set up an appointment with the therapist is unrealistic. But that's fine: if it's not going to happen, then that just means, practically speaking, I'm not going to take him back!

In a nut shell. R/S requires two people and only one to break it. For whatever reason the r/s breaks down can be multivariate. He leaves, you leave , or boundaries are not respected. What ever it may be. Takes one to end it.

Cannot change, cure nor control another, and you must be completely aware of what you are willing to put up with.


To care about him is normal, you were in a r/s at some point. However his actions? They are on another piece of paper. Over the years, the value of remaining detached from the BPD chaos has served me well. It also serves well with others.

Close friends that have stood the test of time don't pull this stupid PD garbage. There is consistency and accountability. When a primary r/s is being hammered with push/ pull and abuse. It's unhealthy. Best to let them sort themselves out, if they ever reach that level of awareness or not. It hurts like hell but to stick around is to enable them. I fought tooth and nail to get out of the PD Matrix and the Blue Pill is not on my night stand I can tell you that.

Excerpt
If my "non-negotiables" are extremely unlikely, then that just means me taking him back is unlikely. And I'm fine with that (though I do have to imagine that therapy must sometimes work).

For their sake, let's hope it does.

Don't know about you, but after a decade dealing with BPD chaos, I took the Red Pill. They can go play around in the Rabbit Hole all they want, without me.

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Learning_curve74
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« Reply #50 on: October 13, 2013, 04:39:30 AM »

Excerpt
He is an adult. If you have to more or less black mail a person into a relationship, who wants that?

Well, not into the relationship, but into therapy.

Blackmailing a person into a relationship OR therapy, neither is healthy... .Aren't you trying to be controlling? Aren't you saying that you know what's best for him and that you want to force him into it? He doesn't have to have BPD to resent feeling controlled.

Going back to trust, isn't your partner who you love, the person you need to be able to trust the most? Even more than you trust a friend or coworker? If you can't trust your partner, then what does that say about the relationship and the possible future?
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« Reply #51 on: October 13, 2013, 05:16:45 PM »

I feel like he lost the right to expect NOT to be controlled, at least for a little while, after all this jerking me around.

Or, rather, he has every right not to hand over control. But he has NO right to expect BOTH to maintain control AND to get me back in for another round. If he wants to keep his control, fine, that's his right. But then he doesn't get any more chances with me!

Beggars can't be choosers. If he comes back begging for a second chance but then also tries to be a "chooser" and not meet my conditions for re-engaging... .then screw him, I'm not re-engaging.
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« Reply #52 on: October 13, 2013, 05:31:32 PM »

The last post was a turn.

That's when this became about your standards.  And what you would require to let him in if he came back.  Therapy and accountability.

Here's one thing that really opened my eyes to how futile this was - the exhausting idea I would have to  constantly police my boundaries.  Like a prison guard. 

I don't know about you but the kind of family overhaul and maintenance for a single wayward adult that wasn't my child sounds like misery.  Never getting the opportunity to relax into the relationship with trust and kindness - essentially sleeping with one eye open waiting for the next turn of events.

Umbrella maybe the whole purpose of this thread was to help you define what kind of partner you need and want-and by default help to rule out this individual a little?
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UmbrellaBoy
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What is your sexual orientation: Gay, lesb
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« Reply #53 on: October 13, 2013, 05:41:21 PM »

Maybe. That's certainly not the sort of relationship I imagine is healthy.

And yet, I have lots of other rather narrow/rare requirements in a partner, and he meets all of those, so it's very frustrating.

I feel basically like I need to find "him... .without BPD" but I don't really know how realistic that is. Gays are already at a disadvantage in terms of having a much smaller pool of potential partners and not having homosexuality be the "default assumption" when you meet someone in life like a coworker, a friend-of-a-friend, etc. It becomes this much more deliberate effort, and much harder to do "organically" unless you maintain certain social circles which are not necessarily "my" type of social circle.

And I still do have this incredible attraction, though I know it is unhealthy and unrealistic and irrational, to a romantic narrative of being someone's psychological or emotional savior. I'm working on getting over that, but it's tough.
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GreenMango
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Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
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« Reply #54 on: October 13, 2013, 05:56:42 PM »

Excerpt
I feel basically like I need to find "him... .without BPD" but I don't really know how realistic that is.

Ahh I'm pretty sure we all thought this at one time or another. If only the pesky mental illness wasn't there.  It isn't realistic. 

One of the staying board mantras is radical acceptance - this is part of who the person is.  We can't control that or change that.  We can try to not make things worse or provide a healthier environment if the person decides to try to tackle theory emotional problems.  But forced therapy really doesn't take that well - it works better if the person wants it.

Maybe give some thought to what a healthy relationship would be for you (we have a workshop on it on the home page) and that we usually get into these relationships with complementary or matching maturity.  It may be his instability allowed that need for control you mentioned to blossom - and it satisfied that for you until it didn't anymore.  And now its becoming something you are noticing that may not be working for you as much anymore.  Hence seeing a therapist about it.

Just a thought.  We all have our reasons, issues and quirks.
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eeyore
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Relationship status: in a relationship
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« Reply #55 on: October 13, 2013, 07:57:02 PM »

I don't know about you but the kind of family overhaul and maintenance for a single wayward adult that wasn't my child sounds like misery.  Never getting the opportunity to relax into the relationship with trust and kindness - essentially sleeping with one eye open waiting for the next turn of events.

Umbrella maybe the whole purpose of this thread was to help you define what kind of partner you need and want-and by default help to rule out this individual a little?

Good post GM. 
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Reforming
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Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 768



« Reply #56 on: October 14, 2013, 01:51:50 AM »

Great post and the healthiest and most empowering comment in this thread. Well done 

"if your ex had proper treatment, and the years of therapy to become a healthy-minded person, then he would probably not find you attractive, because he would no longer want a codependent relationship, but a healthy normal relationship"

That made me think.

A lot.

I was *bargaining* -

I get treatment and stop being a codependent person, then I will no longer find him attractive, because I will only want a normal healthy interdependent relationship with a mentyally-healthy person.

It's happening, slowly but steadily. [/quote]
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Reforming
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Posts: 768



« Reply #57 on: October 14, 2013, 04:48:34 AM »




Dear Ironman

Could I ask why your posts are written like stanzas or verses from a poem?

For some reason I keep thinking of the pirate character fron dodgeball

I realise that it might just be me and I mean no offence but I find it makes your thoughts and observation difficult to read and absorb





Umbrella... .

In bold... .

Even if you managed... .

To get his family and friends... .

To exert that accountability... .

Over him... .

What is written in bold... .

Will occur... .

Regardless.

Their disorder will still surface.

And f¥ck all that up inevitably.

I know what you are trying to say... .

I get that... .

But that would work... .

For a non... .

Whose thought processes... .

Are stable.[/quote]
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Ironmanrises
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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 1774


« Reply #58 on: October 14, 2013, 07:55:16 AM »

Reforming... .

Those are my thought processes... .

And i write like this... .

Because it is orderly for me.

And by writing like this... .

My thoughts are laid out... .

As if i were drawing... .

And for it to be easier... .

To read too.

No offense taken.
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DragoN
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« Reply #59 on: October 14, 2013, 08:56:07 AM »

I feel like he lost the right to expect NOT to be controlled, at least for a little while, after all this jerking me around.

Or, rather, he has every right not to hand over control. But he has NO right to expect BOTH to maintain control AND to get me back in for another round. If he wants to keep his control, fine, that's his right. But then he doesn't get any more chances with me!

Beggars can't be choosers. If he comes back begging for a second chance but then also tries to be a "chooser" and not meet my conditions for re-engaging... .then screw him, I'm not re-engaging.

You've got your answer right there, now it takes a while for the heart to catch up to the head.

IF, you were to go the route of Radical Acceptance, you will most likely have your heart ripped out through your rib cage in short order. There's only so much you can "let go", and "living in the moment" that is realistic. Your emotional needs go unmet while you are forever on the giving end of the equation. It's exhausting.

The other tragic truth, he may actually promise you the sun, moon and stars, but in the end, without therapy, he will revert to base line BPD and you will be banging your head into a wall.

Control is not a healthy concept in a r/s anyways. And a BPD will resent that more than you can imagine, the simple fact being, they can't control themselves as it is. Balance. Reciprocity, these are not in a BPD dynamic at all.

Should the best of the best occur and he accept your terms? Guess what, you will still be forced into the position of detachment. Why? Even he accepts the terms, he will not be able to follow through. BPD promises don't last the length it took to speak the words.
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