a continual snag

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

Hi everyone, here's a Feelings Dump and I don't know how cohesive it is, so... .thanks if anyone reads it.  Also please feel free to lay into me if I need it. 

warning: there is some sexual and triggery stuff.

A number of years ago I "dated" a married man who was very probably bipolar with BPD traits and high N (my lay diagnosis).  There was a power imbalance (teacher/student) in the relationship as well as a big age gap, and he was a personal hero of mine.  I had never dated anyone before.  At least a year if not two of our 3 year relationship I stayed under threat of either "never seeing him again" and then later suicide.  Eventually I left him and he killed himself.  Trying for the cliff notes version here.

Since then I've examined how and why that whole thing happened.  I didn't know what a healthy relationship looked like.  I have bizarre internalized beliefs that correspond with codependency stuff.  I have a really, really bad habit of idealizing people.

But I still really want someone to tell me the relationship isn't my fault. 

I want someone to say, he was predatory.  He was an abuser.  A sick man for sure, but this relationship was not your fault. 

And I keep wondering, is what he did to me rape?  At first i was curious about sex, but it made me feel sick with guilt and disgust.  I did it for a while to please him but it became unbearable.  "If we can't be intimate I can never see you again.  I don't work that way.  We can't be friends."   I get that I had a hand in that dynamic, because I desperately wanted him to be in my life.  I contributed to the push-pull.   But how do you keep going with what you're doing when the other person is crying?  I didn't cry every time, but when I did all hell broke loose afterward.  He never stopped, but he would get angry and within a day he would be unhinged and often suicidal, til I promised to "make it work" with him.  If I attempted to leave him the same thing happened.  I had no support network.  I felt trapped.  I drowned in my own obsessive self-pity, because much like my mother, I believed if someone crossed my path I was helpless and bound to serve them forever, that I was the only thing standing between them and the abyss. This guy made me believe that every day.

I don't know if I'm trying to justify how I feel with a sob story about "being raped"... .I don't trust anything I think.  And it's possible I've missed some points others have brought up here in the past.  But I read so much on abuse and relationship dynamics and feminist stuff lately that confirms what I went through is abuse and that being a victim isn't a thing to be ashamed of.

IDK I am so much farther along with myself today, so why do I still crave the validation of "it isn't your fault?"  Somehow I just can't hold "you were part of a toxic dynamic" in my head without it becoming "you brought this on yourself".

I'm so afraid I'm a narcissist... .

[Weird Fishes]

Hi everyone, here's a Feelings Dump and I don't know how cohesive it is, so... .thanks if anyone reads it.  Also please feel free to lay into me if I need it. 

warning: there is some sexual and triggery stuff.

A number of years ago I "dated" a married man who was very probably bipolar with BPD traits and high N (my lay diagnosis).  There was a power imbalance (teacher/student) in the relationship as well as a big age gap, and he was a personal hero of mine.  I had never dated anyone before.  At least a year if not two of our 3 year relationship I stayed under threat of either "never seeing him again" and then later suicide.  Eventually I left him and he killed himself.  Trying for the cliff notes version here.

Since then I've examined how and why that whole thing happened.  I didn't know what a healthy relationship looked like.  I have bizarre internalized beliefs that correspond with codependency stuff.  I have a really, really bad habit of idealizing people.

But I still really want someone to tell me the relationship isn't my fault. 

I want someone to say, he was predatory.  He was an abuser.  A sick man for sure, but this relationship was not your fault. 

And I keep wondering, is what he did to me rape?  At first i was curious about sex, but it made me feel sick with guilt and disgust.  I did it for a while to please him but it became unbearable.  "If we can't be intimate I can never see you again.  I don't work that way.  We can't be friends."   I get that I had a hand in that dynamic, because I desperately wanted him to be in my life.  I contributed to the push-pull.   But how do you keep going with what you're doing when the other person is crying?  I didn't cry every time, but when I did all hell broke loose afterward.  He never stopped, but he would get angry and within a day he would be unhinged and often suicidal, til I promised to "make it work" with him.  If I attempted to leave him the same thing happened.  I had no support network.  I felt trapped.  I drowned in my own obsessive self-pity, because much like my mother, I believed if someone crossed my path I was helpless and bound to serve them forever, that I was the only thing standing between them and the abyss. This guy made me believe that every day.

I don't know if I'm trying to justify how I feel with a sob story about "being raped"... .I don't trust anything I think.  And it's possible I've missed some points others have brought up here in the past.  But I read so much on abuse and relationship dynamics and feminist stuff lately that confirms what I went through is abuse and that being a victim isn't a thing to be ashamed of.

IDK I am so much farther along with myself today, so why do I still crave the validation of "it isn't your fault?"  Somehow I just can't hold "you were part of a toxic dynamic" in my head without it becoming "you brought this on yourself".

I'm so afraid I'm a narcissist... .

[goldylamont]

sounds like he was much more experienced than you sexually and in relationships. and that he took advantage of that.

also from the cliff notes version  it sounds like there were two dynamics going on--one was that you are dealing with some issues from your past that make you feel like you have to be subservient to someone, when you do not. second is that you were young and naive. your childhood issues aren't "your fault". and definitely your naivety wasn't your fault! now, however, you are both less naive, and you are no longer a child so you have a chance to prove to yourself that it wasn't your fault. because i don't believe it was. i don't think you feel it was either.

He was predatory.

He was an abuser.

The relationship wasn't your fault, however there are things about yourself to look at so that you never have to ask this question of yourself again.

[goldylamont]

I'm so afraid I'm a narcissist... .

bah humbug, my ex tried to gaslight me into thinking i was a narcissist. and this ludicrous projection from her was how i finally found out about BPD. it's doubtful you are a narcissist b/c a narcissist wouldn't be worried about being a narcissist, does that make sense?

if you're not sure, ask some close friends of yours that you respect. don't ask them is you're a narcissist, but ask them things like "do you feel that i am selfish?", "do i listen to you and your feelings?", etc etc. it's cool you may find out that you have some flaws but most likely you'll find out they don't feel like you are narcissistic. just sayin.

[livednlearned]

The description of the guy -- bipolar, BPD, high narcissism -- that could be my ex. He was 17 years older than me. I married him when I was 30 and he was 47. We didn't have the overt power dynamic, though, and he wasn't married. I consider him a predator, and abusive, and stone cold emotionally.

To your point about whether you were at fault... .My own view on this stuff is that figuring out where to lay the blame holds us back from healing. Your relationship with this guy isn't a binary thing about who is at fault and who isn't, although I certainly understand why you have the question. For what it's worth, he took advantage of you, abused you, and preyed on you. But to some extent, that's beside the point.

Instead, try to look at your relationship as a message. It showed you how deeply hurt you must be to get involved with someone like that. I look at my marriage to N/BPDx as a symptom of the pain I was in. I didn't really know how deeply broken my childhood was because that's all I knew, I thought it was normal. I picked men like N/BPDx my whole life until the abuse became intolerable. I recreated the exact conditions of my childhood -- it looked totally different on the outside, but it was the same on the inside.

Many of us act out scripts we don't fully understand -- Freud called it repetition compulsion. We repeat these lessons until we heal. Looking for fault is probably part of the script you inherited from your family of origin. You dated an emotionally unavailable man who used guilt and threats to control you. Somewhere in your life, someone taught you to ignore your own warning signs.

Who took advantage of you in your life? Who talked you out of trusting how you really felt? Who used guilt to control you? Who made you doubt yourself? Who used power and called it love?

I idealized my dad growing up and allied with him. He did the same to his BPD mother. It wasn't until I divorced N/BPDx and ended up in therapy that my T pointed out my dad's actions and his words didn't match. He used to call me the perfect daughter, but I was 40 when I realized "perfect" meant tolerating abuse. I never made mistakes. I never complained. I never got angry. I certainly never questioned my dad. My dad would always talk about his integrity, but then I realized he didn't have any integrity. He bought a house for my brother, but not me, and has been telling me my whole life that he treats his kids fairly, and other parents should be like him.

I'm saying this because sometimes the idealization stuff is hard to figure out because, like my dad, he has been super tricky about it. He tells me who he is, and I believed him, because I was punished for questioning him or expressing my own thoughts and feelings. Maybe there is someone in your life like that?

[Weird Fishes]

I realized something last night-it is around the anniversary of his death.  That explains why he's been on my mind so much.  I think the same thing happened last year. 

Goldylamont, thank you so much for your validation.  I'm kind of crying over it... .because that's a thing I do a lot now I guess?  Heh.  Maybe I will ask my friends for advice re narc traits.  Idk, I just feel really self obsessed, and also I don't think I have a lot of real empathy and had to learn it over the past few years.  I think I've always been more sensitive to ppl than actually empathetic if that makes sense. 

Livednlearned, thank you too!  your point about blame is well heard.  It's what's worrying me.  I have done a lot of work, self and FOO examination, and made a lot of progress... .I thought.  But then I still have these feelings.  The first concept you're supposed to get rid of... .assigning blame. 

[Weird Fishes]

Think i figured out part of the blame game thing.  I am afraid of condemnation from my peers. 

I have never shared my story with anyone who knew him.  I never told anyone during the relationship... .and in 5 years since his death only told 4 ppl, one of whom was my therapist.  There is a common assumption among my classmates that something was going on between us and my "replacement" was apparently fairly open about her relationship with him, but my classmates have been pretty respectful and not asked me or pressed the issue. 

But I find myself wanting to tell someone I guess.  And part of me is sickened that he still gets so much worship when he preyed on multiple students.  Part of me wants to out him.  I won't... .at least not anytime soon. 

Idk, I guess... .I want validation from my peers but at the same time I fear vilification and rejection.  I REALLY want to tell the guy I had a physical relationship with during the affair and then cut off because I didn't think I could ever get away... .But he turned out to be super immature and became an alcoholic so... .probably can't handle that info.

I only spoke w/replacement (a student) a couple times.  I don't know her at all but I do know when he killed himself she still thought he was such a great person.  She still thinks he was her "best friend" and all the delusions he fed me.  The difference?  She called off the physical relationship after a few months.  It took me 3 years.    Sometimes I think about reaching out to her.

What do you guys think?  Should I attempt to tell anybody my story or reach out to the replacement?