I didn't listen to my own advice

[livednlearned]

S12 sees his dad every other weekend, 4 hours Saturday, 4 hours Sunday. I have full custody.

There is nothing in our consent order about holidays. So, in a moment of weakness (?) or kindness (?) I emailed N/BPDx about Thanksgiving:

Please let me know if you would like S12 to spend Thanksgiving with you from 3-7pm.

Then I get this:

Thank you.

The last time you offered to alter the arrangements, you reneged, committed perjury about it, and your L (copied here) willfully misrepresented the facts to the court.

Please interpret.

<sigh>

I responded:

It's a yes or no answer. Unless I hear otherwise, I will assume the answer is no.

Before I sent the email, I asked S12 if he wanted to spend Thanksgiving with his dad from 3-7. Now, it looks like that isn't going to happen.

Anyone have thoughts on how I could have handled this better? Or what I should say to S12?

[david]

I used to get these kind of replies all the time. All I do is repeat exactly what I said in the first email. I don't ask or send anything else. If I get a second email with nonsense I again repeat exactly what I said twice before. When I started this it took quite a few times before I got a proper response. The last two years I haven't had to say it more than twice. Once I get a proper response I may reply by finalizing the details if they need to be : the where, when, and how.

Your email was quite clear to me.

[DreamGirl]

Ugh.

My interpretation of his response = "I don't want to change the schedule but I'm going to make it sound like its your fault."

Be true to yourself - if you want to offer some extra time, do it. Don't worry about the reply. It was lovely that you wanted your son to see his dad.

I might just say to son "I thought we could figure something out, but it just didn't work out." and then next time, I might approach the ex first.

Knowing that you are actually allowed to reneg if the circumstances offer that you would (i.e. son doesn't want to go)

[livednlearned]

I think I'm done offering anything.

Until I forget why, and do something like this again 

[DreamGirl]

That's a good plan too. 

[momtara]

Hey, we've all been there!

It's lucky he said no.  Less hassle all around.

[Free One]

I don't know that there is any other way to handle this then stop trying to be nice and do the "right" thing for your son in terms of his dad. You can't force his dad to be a dad, and you know your niceness will be taken advantage of. I know this all goes against your nature, but at some point you have to stop giving him the benefit of the doubt. Old habits die hard.

As far as  your son, stick with you made the schedule decision to what is best for you. It's the rules, and you are going to follow them. Make up some fun new traditions for just the two of you. This first holiday season will be the hardest, but I think it's easier to be firm on this than getting his hopes up about his dad.

(Not trying to sound harsh, just direct with what I think.) 

[livednlearned]

I don't know that there is any other way to handle this then stop trying to be nice and do the "right" thing for your son in terms of his dad. You can't force his dad to be a dad, and you know your niceness will be taken advantage of. I know this all goes against your nature, but at some point you have to stop giving him the benefit of the doubt. Old habits die hard.

As far as  your son, stick with you made the schedule decision to what is best for you. It's the rules, and you are going to follow them. Make up some fun new traditions for just the two of you. This first holiday season will be the hardest, but I think it's easier to be firm on this than getting his hopes up about his dad.

(Not trying to sound harsh, just direct with what I think.) 

I'm good with direct 

This is our third Thanksgiving since I left N/BPDx. The first Thanksgiving, S12 was with his dad and wow, did that hurt. I flew across the country to be with close friends and they helped me get through the holiday. S12 and I actually had some of our worst experiences during the holidays with N/BPDx pre-divorce, so it doesn't take much to make them better. Last year, S12 and I spent the day with good friends, but they're out of town this year. New guy has invited me to spend Thanksgiving with him, which would be the first time his kids (D16 and S14) would spend time with S12.

I dunno. I guess I'm already feeling the depressing part of the holidays tug at me. They've always been awful, and I know that spending the day with new guy's kids will be so awkward, not fun.

If I had money, I'd fly somewhere with S12 and go on an adventure. It's super escapist, but the alternative is that it'll just be the two of us, eating my not-very-good cooking.

[starshine]

I dunno. I guess I'm already feeling the depressing part of the holidays tug at me. They've always been awful, and I know that spending the day with new guy's kids will be so awkward, not fun.

If I had money, I'd fly somewhere with S12 and go on an adventure. It's super escapist, but the alternative is that it'll just be the two of us, eating my not-very-good cooking. [/quote]
Gosh, I hope you two can take a little adventure and get out of town.  Maybe there's a closer trip you can take?  I find the holidays difficult also.  Good luck.

[Free One]

Your *gut* is telling you to get out of town (which in my mind means you need 1 one-on-one fun time with son), so do it! Do what you want, you finally have that RIGHT! Find somewhere close - the next town over? Get a hotel with a pool, find a buffet or something for the big day and just relax and have fun! I know money is tight, but it's cheaper than therapy and well worth building the bond with your son.

[Free One]

I also want to know why you are still considering going to new guy's for Thanksgiving when for the past couple months you have been uncertain, uncomfortable and not excited to do so? Time and time, you have said you don't want to, so why are you?

[livednlearned]

I don't know what's going with my head right now.

So, N/BPDx texts S12 and says, ":)o you want to spend thanksgiving with me."

S12 tells me about the text, I say, Well... .do you? S12 says yes.

Then I get an email from N/BPDx saying, "He comes here 12-9." More than that, but that's about the gist of it.

I'm thinking, no. 3-7 like I proposed.

FreeOne, you're right about new guy and Thanksgiving. I guess I'm feeling my arm twisted a bit -- that I could pop over there (without S12) and have dessert, no big deal. His kids will probably sit there for 20 minutes, eat dessert and there. We did it. The awkward dessert on Thanksgiving.

Feeling so out of sorts right now... .I think it's because I saw a friend whose husband is new guy's daughter's chemistry teacher. Is that confusing or what? Basically, my friend's husband taught chemistry to new guy's daughter. Not sure that makes it any less confusing.

But my friend has a big mouth, and knows I am dating new guy, and kinda shared that her husband thinks new guy is in denial about his daughter. That was pretty awful of her, come to think of it. I'd be p!ssed if I were her husband, blabbing like that. It rattled me because it got to the part of me that doesn't trust myself. That maybe I picked another unhealthy guy.

Usually I can deal with my old self doubt tape, but have been really struggling lately. Maybe it's all this court stuff.

Holidays, they just aren't happy times for me.

[Free One]

I'm thinking, no. 3-7 like I proposed.

If you still want to let him go, stick to your guns. It's 3-7 or nothing. He's trying to manipulate you again.

[Free One]

FreeOne, you're right about new guy and Thanksgiving. I guess I'm feeling my arm twisted a bit -- that I could pop over there (without S12) and have dessert, no big deal. His kids will probably sit there for 20 minutes, eat dessert and there. We did it. The awkward dessert on Thanksgiving.

Feeling so out of sorts right now... .I think it's because I saw a friend whose husband is new guy's daughter's chemistry teacher. Is that confusing or what? Basically, my friend's husband taught chemistry to new guy's daughter. Not sure that makes it any less confusing.

But my friend has a big mouth, and knows I am dating new guy, and kinda shared that her husband thinks new guy is in denial about his daughter. That was pretty awful of her, come to think of it. I'd be p!ssed if I were her husband, blabbing like that. It rattled me because it got to the part of me that doesn't trust myself. That maybe I picked another unhealthy guy.

Usually I can deal with my old self doubt tape, but have been really struggling lately. Maybe it's all this court stuff.

Holidays, they just aren't happy times for me.

This same tape has been playing with the same guy for a few months now. Maybe it is an old tape. Maybe it's not.

What is it that you want?

[AnotherPhoenix]

Livednlearned,

I frequently get weird emails from my ex. Sometimes just out of the blue.

I got one from her today. Fortunately, this one is about a small problem. Often, it is about more important things.

Her first email, referring to S9's ADHD medication:

"How many pills do you have left."

My reply:

"

10

S9's next appointment is 11/21 at 3:45.

AnotherPheonix"

Her reply:

"I don't have enough pills for that time span. Do you have some?" 

I've come to expect some illogic, misremembering, and other weirdness in her emails, but this one caught me by surprise.

Again, luckily this time it was about something that is easily taken care of, unlike your situation.

Holidays, they just aren't happy times for me.

Aww. I feel for you.     I'm going to be alone too, and I feel a little bit sad about that. I got used to it a lot in my 20's, which helps me, but I still feel that tug on the heart during the holidays.

Is there anything you can do to make Thanksgiving feel better for you? Call your parents? Fix a Thanksgiving dinner just for you and your son and then go do something like take a walk or go fishing with him? Will your church have a Thanksgiving dinner. If so, it may not be on Thanksgiving, but it might help you feel better to eat a dinner where there are a lot of people around.

Lots of hugs,

AnotherPheonix   

[martillo]

In our community, we have a Community Thanksgiving dinner that is free to the public and served by volunteers.  Is there something like that where you are?  If there is an opportunity to volunteer with or without your son and then eat w a new "family" it might make the holiday better. 

[livednlearned]

Thanks people.

@AnotherPhoenix and @martillo --

Those are good suggestions. I might just look into the church idea. But... .it isn't just the day that makes me depressed. It's all of it. It's all those feelings about coming from a messed up family at a time of year when it's all about family. No closeness, no real strong bonding. I just need to do what other people who get seasonal depression do, and watch (or ignore) my thinking. Recognize that everything is going to feel a little harder than the rest of the year. Try to stay connected to people as much as possible.

@FreeOne

I don't know what I want!    Wait, yes I do... .a loving, healthy, whole, connected intimate relationship. New guy represents the healthiest r/s I've ever had. Tomorrow is the one year anniversary of him asking me out. I think some deep, deep stuff about intimacy is starting to thaw. Big chunks of ice floes are calving off... .feels very scary.

[Free One]

New guy represents the healthiest r/s I've ever had.

Is this why you are holding on to it, despite your "online" body language saying it isn't working for you? My honest opinion (based on your posts) is that it isn't the r/s you want.

That's not to say that there is anything "wrong" with the r/s, you or him. Just my observation, it seems like a lot of work for you to be in this r/s. Of course, take it with a grain of salt, since I'm no expert! 

[livednlearned]

New guy represents the healthiest r/s I've ever had.

Is this why you are holding on to it, despite your "online" body language saying it isn't working for you? My honest opinion (based on your posts) is that it isn't the r/s you want.

That's not to say that there is anything "wrong" with the r/s, you or him. Just my observation, it seems like a lot of work for you to be in this r/s. Of course, take it with a grain of salt, since I'm no expert! 

I don't know. 

Intimacy is a lot of work for me. It's foreign. It's hard to tell how much of what I'm experiencing is about new guy, and how much is about me and my fears of intimacy.

I'm outgoing, sociable, have good friends, but my pick in partners has been awful. Not just N/BPDx, but before that. Friends have never understood why I end up with the guys I do. New guy is so different than anyone I've ever dated.

In my FOO, I learned I was on my own, learned how to soldier through adversity by creating a wall. I'm really, really good at being alone. Being with someone makes me feel panicky.

[Mutt]

Thank you.

The last time you offered to alter the arrangements, you reneged, committed perjury about it, and your L (copied here) willfully misrepresented the facts to the court.

Please interpret.

My ex does this often, but she will make me repeat the same thing that I had articulated quite clearly in the first communique. She'll blame me of course.

Often her responses are

Your not being clear in your message. Please be clear, etc... .

It's frustrating but I just sum it up to poor comprehensive skills in BPD.

[ForeverDad]

I have to remember not to offer my ex choices, I recall one memorable incident that triggered her to revert to rejection.  She had been pondering how to make adjustments for a required exchange.  When I offered sample times, she triggered and said, "Maybe I just won't bring him!"  As it turned out, she did.

Did I learn my lesson?  Most of the time but my solution-seeking and reasonableness keeps getting in the way.

[livednlearned]

I dunno. I guess this is a one-step forward, two steps back thing.

I ended up saying yes to 12-7pm on Thanksgiving. Can't explain it. I don't know what I learned from it. On one hand, he acted nasty when I made the offer. On the other hand, it doesn't bother me nearly like it used to. Radical acceptance, or detachment? Not sure. S12 wanted to go. And S12 made a comment about asserting himself with a (not good) friend at school. I think when I see that coming from him, it makes me realize that he's going to be ok. So maybe it's alright that he spends 7 extra hours with his dad for the holiday.

The good news is that N/BPDx finally refinanced the house, although I'm waiting until I see the new deed recorded to believe it.