Engulfment

[vangirl60]

Do BPDs know with each new relationship that sooner or later they will feel engulfment, start to devaluate and that the cycle of push/pull etc. will eventually play out? Or do they think each new relationship will actually work?

[bouchon226]

I'm interested to hear the responses about this.  I'm not sure.  I think it's interesting how my husband likes to reference my past relationships and how they didn't work out (even though I ended most of my serious relationships due to a variety of reasons).  I know the truth about his past relationship, however, since his sister-in-law told me and I have figured out some of it for myself.  He was with his ex for 9 years (never married) and it was very turbulent - of course it was!  She was lazy and had her own serious mental issues.  And he was BPD.  Yikes.  He keeps trying to convince me I'm partly to blame for our marriage not working out but the reality is it is his behavior.

[Perfidy]

Do BPDs know with each new relationship that sooner or later they will feel engulfment, start to devaluate and that the cycle of push/pull etc. will eventually play out? Or do they think each new relationship will actually work?

Does anybody know... Really the biggest truth you can find here is not knowing. What defines work? What do you mean by "work"? Healthy? Long term? Love? How does anyone "know" it won't "work"?  I was with a pwBPD for seven and a half years. She happened to be a meth addict as well... It "worked" for seven and a half years... Healthy? Ha!

[fromheeltoheal]

Remember BPD is an attachment disorder, formed when the borderline failed to detach from their primary caregiver and experience the abandonment trauma as a youngster.  Each relationship is a subconscious replacement for that earliest attachment, so a borderline is convinced that they will be abandoned, and then behaves in such a way that it becomes a self-fulfilling prophesy; things get so shtty that we either leave them or vice versa.

Of course for a minute at the beginning of the relationship we are seen as saviors, perfect, Knight's in shining armor, a fantasy, the one person that is going to be able to form the perfect attachment and make all their abandonment fears evaporate, unsustainable by standard humans, so as soon as a borderline is let down by yet another imperfect human, the BPD cycling commences, and we all know how that feels.

[caughtnreleased]

Ok... .how about this as an additional question to the one posed by vangirl... does the length of their cycle change with different people?  I mean, I got really close, really fast with mine, and I saw him start to experience abandonment/engulfment after 2 weeks (heck... .before our first date even because I was out of town and took a day to answer his text). The relationship was unsteady and rocky from the beginning.  I feel though that because our connection was so strong, we actually cycled through the different stages much more quickly.  The anxiety was so high I was having a nervous breakdown after 3 weeks. I have a feeling he keeps a distance in his other relationships, and therefore they "last" longer. Do they work out? no, but somehow he can stretch it out a bit more than what happened with me... .any thoughts?

[vangirl60]

caughtnreleased- i think you have a good point there….they may try and keep a certain distance within a r/ship…especially as they develop some awareness of the pattern, if in fact they have any awareness….although I think they do to some degree. How could they not? 

[Perfidy]

Unless I am planning on having another disordered relationship this question is... .Aha!

Vangirl... .? Are you wondering when you might have a recycle?

[fromheeltoheal]

Ok... .how about this as an additional question to the one posed by vangirl... does the length of their cycle change with different people?  I mean, I got really close, really fast with mine, and I saw him start to experience abandonment/engulfment after 2 weeks (heck... .before our first date even because I was out of town and took a day to answer his text). The relationship was unsteady and rocky from the beginning.  I feel though that because our connection was so strong, we actually cycled through the different stages much more quickly.  The anxiety was so high I was having a nervous breakdown after 3 weeks. I have a feeling he keeps a distance in his other relationships, and therefore they "last" longer. Do they work out? no, but somehow he can stretch it out a bit more than what happened with me... .any thoughts?

Wow CnR, I could have written your post.  My relationship was long distance, started on Facebook, graduated to the phone, with lots of emails and texts, and then in person, which required airplane rides.  I was on edge the entire time we were together in person, because the real person was very unlike the person I was falling for through technology, someone I didn't really like much, but forward I pushed, because I'm an idiot or I got lost, more likely a little of both.

But yes, I say the strains of trying to have a relationship across time zones stressed the relationship, and that caused the dysfunction to escalate, and good thing, I went to hell quickly and got out.

If our relationship happened the 'normal' way, meet someone casually and get to know them over time slowly, then see what develops, I'd like to say I would have seen through the bullsht earlier, either that or we never would have started anything because we aren't compatible, but who knows.  She uses sex as a tool and a weapon, and usually ends up screwing someone right after meeting them, I think on some level that catches guys off guard and puts her in control, so who knows what would have happened if she had leveled her sights on me and came on strong.  I really don't know where we would have met though, since we were so incompatible.

[BorderlineMagnet]

Me and my last ex had a 6 month friends with benefits relationship before we ever started dating. We then dated for 2 months before becoming an official couple. It only took 2 months after that for her to be triggered and start cheating with my replacement. Our feelings had built up over all that time, so it seemed more natural even though it started out based on sex. We were very close, very loving, and I was totally caught off guard by her being shady. I think I triggered her abandonment fears so much faster because as she said I was very different in a good way, and was so much sweeter than anybody she had been with. I guess the thought of me leaving her and her kids someday was too much for her, so she made her own fears come true by hooking up with a lesser guy and acting like he's the best guy in the world (even though she had said all the same things about me and more). With her and my replacement it was right in to the r/s right away, more classic BPD. She tired to hide it from me so she could still have sex with me but I exposed her. Since then I have hear from her via blank email every 3 to 4 months right on schedule. I'm guessing her cycle with my replacement is about the same as with me. I just don't think he's smart enough to catch her, even knowing that she was playing him and me at the same time. I'm guessing she's moved on to other replacements or exes since she doesn't put much effort in to contacting me, either that or she is still too ashamed at what she did to me. Regardless, I'm curious as to whats going on in her life that she feels the need to contact me in these predictable increments.

[vangirl60]

Haha Perfidy- I am not down for a recycle! Been there done that. And have worked too hard and come too far. Ex would never show up here now…he knows I'm way onto his game. He lives far away from disgruntled exs , friends and family with new woman. I do feel somewhat concerned for her but of course there's not much one can do. Maybe in time, she'll discover this board  lolI'm just curious about the whole thing and how it plays out over their lifetime. I think we all are and that's natural. Geez, before I got involved with this I'd never heard of PDs and now feel so enlightened and spot them all over the place.

[Perfidy]

Ya... I hear you vangirl... .It just seems to boil down to a few questions after a while. Yours kind of wraps them all into one.

1. Will they do better with the next?

2. Will I be recycled?

3. How long does it take?

4. Will it always be the same?

5. What happened?

And a few more that I can't think of right now.

But... .As we progress in our own healing and bring ourselves into the here and now these questions just don't matter any more. As you said... .The vigilance in others that you have found... That is a kind of marker to show how far you've come. We learn... .True... We become wiser... .Yes... When indifference (our goal) is achieved... We just don't care because we are too busy taking care of ourselves armed with the experiences these sick relationships give us. Hopefully. 

[damage control]

Heeltoheal + Borderline:

I was a quick and intense as well ... .plane rides etc as well ... .and even though we lasted a year ... that is less that his previous of 3 years but more than the ones for 10 years prior with, from my understanding were very quick.