what is an apology? Victims don't apologize

[Tolou]

I looked up the definition for an apology.  Because I never recieved one for anything that my exBPD gf did... .

APOLOGY

1.An acknowledgment expressing regret or asking pardon for a fault or offense.

2.a regretful acknowledgment of an offense or failure.

3. an oral or written expression of regret or contrition for a fault or failing

4.an expression of regret for having committed an error or rudeness

I thought to myself so many times, how much a sincere apology would mean to me from her.  And to be honest not because I think I deserve one, or I would apologize, I even apoligized for things I  should have needed to, or things I didn't say or do to difuse situation.  However, a sincere apology would mean to me atleast you can take responsibility for that you apologizing for (I would hope).  A sign of some growth, that you realized, damn... . I should apologize to this person because of such and such, they really did try to help.  I'm not waiting for it though, we don't think, feel or see things the same way, I had to accept this.  7 months I have maintained no contact! How someone apologize if they see nothing wrong in the way they behave.  How could they be the victim.?

[arn131arn]

They are the victim.  That's why they don't apologize.

An apology is worth nothing... . it's the action that goes behind it, that makes it right.

If I screw around with a buddy's gf and I apologize for it, but then I continue to go around screwing other buddy's gf, then I haven't changed.  I haven't grown, I continue to do the same behaviors.

That's like them, BPD continue to do the same behaviors, so when they do offer you a half-hearted apology, it means hit.  They continue to do the same behaviors and they are the victim.

[heartandwhole]

Hi Tolou,

I agree, an apology would feel so good!  I certainly wanted one.  And yes, it would be a sign of taking responsibility and caring about your feelings.  Unfortunately many of our ex partners are not good at taking responsibility – it triggers all kinds of shameful and painful feelings.  Better to blame you and move on to something that feels better.  It's a hard way to live, too.

It sounds like you are taking responsibility for your side of the street, and I think that is great.

[State85]

I rarely got an apology, and if I did, it was obviously not sincere. But when she did give me an apology, that was it... . final, whatever she was apologizing for could never be brought up again... . because she would say "I apologized for that, quit living in the past"

[shellsh0cked]

My xgf accused me of all kinds of things.  Looking at her mother's chest and flirting with her, accused me of sleeping with her best friend... . came to my house and waiting to ambush me with knives (twice).  Smashed my windows out of my car... . list goes on and on.  Two years ago in June.  You think I have gotten an apology from her?  Hell no!  Why?  Because SHE is the victim... . I did all these horrible things in her mind.  I don't ever expect an apology.  The only way that will ever happen is if she seeks treatment.  Maybe she just might see then.  But I doubt that will happen... . As we all know, denial is a hallmark of BPD.  Along with victim mentality.

[shellsh0cked]

My xgf accused me of all kinds of things.  Looking at her mother's chest and flirting with her, accused me of sleeping with her best friend... . came to my house and waiting to ambush me with knives (twice).  Smashed my windows out of my car... . list goes on and on.  Two years ago in June.  You think I have gotten an apology from her?  Hell no!  Why?  Because SHE is the victim... . I did all these horrible things in her mind.  I don't ever expect an apology.  The only way that will ever happen is if she seeks treatment.  Maybe she just might see then.  But I doubt that will happen... . As we all know, denial is a hallmark of BPD.  Along with victim mentality.

Although I DO owe her an apology.  For staying with her when clearly it was only hurting her.  I was selfish holding onto her.  I should have let her go.  I intensified her pain.  Although she will do it to someone else again, maybe they will have better sense than me and let her go.  I truly loved her... . that's why I stayed.

[LilMissSunshine]

Never an apology from mine either.  In fact, he always expected me to apologize for reacting to his abuse.  Or, after cleverly being set up.  For example, he was arrested for A&B after a neighbor saw him hitting me, through a window, and called the police.  He completely blames me for his arrest - it was my fault.  Sometimes he even says that I'm the one who called the police.  To this day, he is appalled that I have yet to apologize (?).

On the other hand I have apologized for things that I shouldn't have done or said.  However, he always refuses to accept my apology and will continuously talk (even years later) about what a jerk I was that time.

In other words, everything was ALWAYS my fault and he demanded apologies.  Yet, the legitimate ones he got from me, he never accepted anyway.

[MrConfused]

They are the victim.  That's why they don't apologize

I got one... . ONCE & it was more about her than anything.

Never got one for the way she treated me. I was always guilt tripped for "making her feel bad" Gee really? Never mind how bad I'd felt for months. Nope.

[shellsh0cked]

They are the victim.  That's why they don't apologize

I got one... . ONCE & it was more about her than anything.

Never got one for the way she treated me. I was always guilt tripped for "making her feel bad" Gee really? Never mind how bad I'd felt for months. Nope.

Course not... . you deserved it (in her eyes anyway).  I don't see one ever coming my way.  Whatever.  I can live with it because I know I did none of those things she accused me of, so I have no shame.  But she sure made me feel like death for months.  Blood pressure was up... . chest pains warranted a doctor visit and EKG which revealed my issue was stress.

[MrFox]

I did get a sort of apology.  It was a vague "I'm sorry for what I have done" without stating what she had actually done.  She closed it with that she had spent the week up to apologizing hoping that I would die.  Kind of ruins the apology.

[Monarch Butterfly]

I never got an apology, not once in 16 years. Then I decide to leave on the 17th. I mean, really leave. Tell him "I'm gone". Then he acted as if nothing happened, went into total denial. After he realized that I was really leaving, he did apologize. It was so intense, deep, full of feelings, like a normal person would have done. Made me wonder what happened to his BPD. I even posted about his apology on the boards and asked if a person with BPD could actually have a normal moment and realize what happened, and what part of his responsibility in it was. I think he did. Anyway, after his apology he is in the idealization phase and is worshiping me. UGH!

Anyway, once in 17 years isn't enough for me... .

[shellsh0cked]

I did get a sort of apology.  It was a vague "I'm sorry for what I have done" without stating what she had actually done.  She closed it with that she had spent the week up to apologizing hoping that I would die.  Kind of ruins the apology.

More than I got... . at least she acknowledged she DID in fact do something... . In her mind there is no reason to apologize for her brutal behavior.

[babyspook]

I've never received an apology from my stbx for any of the insane things she did when we were together.  "Sorry" is not in her vocabulary.  Would I like one from her now... . even for the sake of closure?  Hell no!  That means I would actually have to communicate with her again.  Nope!  I really like the way things are now.

[Iwalk-Heruns]

The Five languages of apology by Gary chapman is a good book. It talks about what is needed for a sincere apology and how to heal from a relationship.

Also the Five languages of love that he also wrote is really good. Highly recommended. Talks about what different people respond to and value in a relationship etc. basically breaks it down into 5 types.

[Turkish]

I've gotten apologies, or something seeming like that on the surface:

"I know I'm a b*tch to you, but I'm YOUR b*tch." (periodically throughout our r/s)

"I AM sorry about my 'mistake' and I know that I hurt you!"

The affair... . that was two months ago, it's still going on. A little over a month ago after the guy called her at our dinner table with the kids:

"What do you want me to say, that I'm sorry?" "I know you're the right guy, but I just can't DO this!" "I know that I'm sick... . "

Me: "You devalued me in the worst possible way."

Her: "I felt devalued!" (I ended that part of the conversation here, but it continued)

Me: "You abused me."

Her: "I always said that you needed to stand up to me!" (yes, and it usually resulted in yelling matches. Could have used SET in those cases, but far too late now. My hypothetical take on this as an analogous conversation:

Her: "You raped me."

Me: "I always told you not to dress like that!"

Previously, I said some jerk things to her, because I was so frustrated on getting blamed for everything. She once asked for an apology. My reply was: "Who are YOU that I should apologize to YOU?" Probably not the best communication on my side, but water under the ocean now. She actually turned this around and used my own powers against me. Oops.

Notice the common denominator, "I, I, I, me, me, me."

[shellsh0cked]

I've never received an apology from my stbx for any of the insane things she did when we were together.  "Sorry" is not in her vocabulary.  Would I like one from her now... . even for the sake of closure?  Hell no!  That means I would actually have to communicate with her again.  Nope!  I really like the way things are now.

Well said... . we should go have a beer sometime and compare horror stories... .

[Waifed]

I've gotten apologies, or something seeming like that on the surface:

"I know I'm a b*tch to you, but I'm YOUR b*tch." (periodically throughout our r/s)

"I AM sorry about my 'mistake' and I know that I hurt you!"

The affair... . that was two months ago, it's still going on. A little over a month ago after the guy called her at our dinner table with the kids:

"What do you want me to say, that I'm sorry?" "I know you're the right guy, but I just can't DO this!" "I know that I'm sick... . "

Me: "You devalued me in the worst possible way."

Her: "I felt devalued!" (I ended that part of the conversation here, but it continued)

Me: "You abused me."

Her: "I always said that you needed to stand up to me!" (yes, and it usually resulted in yelling matches. Could have used SET in those cases, but far too late now. My hypothetical take on this as an analogous conversation:

Her: "You raped me."

Me: "I always told you not to dress like that!"

Previously, I said some jerk things to her, because I was so frustrated on getting blamed for everything. She once asked for an apology. My reply was: "Who are YOU that I should apologize to YOU?" Probably not the best communication on my side, but water under the ocean now. She actually turned this around and used my own powers against me. Oops.

Notice the common denominator, "I, I, I, me, me, me."

Turk

I got apologies also although there was never any depth to them.  I said a lot of mean things to her too but a human can only take so much abuse before he has to fight back.  Physical confrontation was obviously not the answer so verbal defense was the only way to go.  I don't regret one thing I said during the relationship.  She deserved so much more of that and a lot less of me.  

[RecycledNoMore]

Him- im so sorry babe, I love you so much

Me- what are you actually sorry for?

Him- blank stare.

They dont get it, the world is their stage and we are merely players.

[shellsh0cked]

at first my xgf said she didn't know why she acted like that... . and that she was so sorry and would do better.  Cried... . sincerely.  I don't think she was ever able to resolve those feelings of insecurity so she started to justify her behavior since she was convinced I was salivating over every woman that walked upright. 

[SeekingAdviceinCa]

Ahh yes the lack of apology. Been there a lot. I got the "I'm sorry if what I did hurt you" insincere apology. But remorseful, heartfelt apology?  Those were rare.

[Tolou]

I just don't think it is in their nature to say sorry, if it is it has intentions behind it (not for all of course).  An apology would also mean in their minds "something is wrong with me" and that can not be the case when playing the victim role, that why they change stories around, to fit their reality. It is a shame, because they beauty is unique, but the emptiness and dark parts can be very scary.

thank you all for your post and sharing your stories with one another.

[RecycledNoMore]

Him- im so sorry babe, I love you so much

Me- what are you actually sorry for?

Him- blank stare.

They dont get it, the world is their stage and we are merely players.

channeling RUSH or Shakespeare RNM?

Hm, bit of both but Rush is definitely easier to understand

[shellsh0cked]

I rarely got an apology, and if I did, it was obviously not sincere. But when she did give me an apology, that was it... . final, whatever she was apologizing for could never be brought up again... . because she would say "I apologized for that, quit living in the past"

Hmm... . this sound vaguely familiar.  Anything SHE did, we weren't to speak of it... . or argue with it, because "that was different... . not the same!"  Yet anything she thought I did was perfectly okay to smear me with at any time, and never let it go till I died.  What sucked more than anything y'all?  Being puninshed over and over for things I never said or did ... . that's a tough pill there. 

[Turkish]

Him- im so sorry babe, I love you so much

Me- what are you actually sorry for?

Him- blank stare.

They dont get it, the world is their stage and we are merely players.

channeling RUSH or Shakespeare RNM?

Hm, bit of both but Rush is definitely easier to understand

Fellow  Rush fans,  you all are awesome!  The Wreckers  resonates with me these days.

[State85]

I rarely got an apology, and if I did, it was obviously not sincere. But when she did give me an apology, that was it... . final, whatever she was apologizing for could never be brought up again... . because she would say "I apologized for that, quit living in the past"

WOW state!

YOU ARE MY REPLACEMENT!

Damn you! 

LOL!

[Obibens]

This came up in a recent 3 hour 'talk' with my wife.  She told me she messes up all the time and apologizes for all of it.  Instead of contradicting, like I used to do, I asked her for a specific example.  She couldn't come up with one and said that it was "for normal marriage issue - not ones that would destroy a marriage".  I said "OK, that makes sense, but give me an example".  She got upset and said this wasn't about her this is about my issues.  Her mistakes and small and mine are big, so lets focus on mine.

[Obibens]

This came up in a recent 3 hour 'talk' with my wife.  She told me she messes up all the time and apologizes for all of it.  Instead of contradicting, like I used to do, I asked her for a specific example.  She couldn't come up with one and said that it was "for normal marriage issue - not ones that would destroy a marriage".  I said "OK, that makes sense, but give me an example".  She got upset and said this wasn't about her this is about my issues.  Her mistakes and small and mine are big, so lets focus on mine.

I forgot to add... .

The thing is, she isn't really lying.  She does apologize all the time, for completely inconsequential stuff.  She bumps into me on accident in the kitchen.  Turns on a light in the bedroom when I'm already in there sleeping. Or something that someone else did.  She has no problem saying "Oh,I'm sorry".  You know, stuff that really doesn't require an apology.  So it's true, she really does apologize all the time.  We just have a disconnect on what "normal marriage issues" are. 

[nevaeh]

The only times I have ever gotten an apology is when H and I have a huge fight after whatever incident. 

When he does apologize, it goes something like this (and it ALWAYS HAPPENS IN BED, in the dark)... . "I'm really sorry about what I said... . BUT when you did "X" it just made no sense to me and I couldn't believe you were that "dumb" to do something like that."  Once when he said this (the fight was over something really dumb but he went over the top to personally attack me... . calling me stupid, accusing me of never listening to him, telling me that I'm too dumb to pay attention to any details or understand what I am reading)... . I told him that "if he wants to apologize he should say he's sorry and then be done.  An apology isn't really sincere if you apologize and then continue on to rehash the argument and the insults all over again."  WOW, that got a response.  He was SOO mad at me for that comment!  Of course, ended up in a big yelling match again.  That was one of the last straws for me and it happened last February.

For the everyday comments, swearing, etc., he does not apologize.  He never apologizes to the kids for anything even when he really should.  He is their master and they cannot defy him and he gets to say or do whatever he wants because he is in charge.

When H "moved out" of our bedroom for 3 days after an argument, I honestly think that in his mind, him coming back to our bed was his way of saying he was sorry.  Never, ever said the words but I think in his mind he said them. 

Sad, but I've gotten used to it.

[Turkish]

This came up in a recent 3 hour 'talk' with my wife.  She told me she messes up all the time and apologizes for all of it.  Instead of contradicting, like I used to do, I asked her for a specific example.  She couldn't come up with one and said that it was "for normal marriage issue - not ones that would destroy a marriage".  I said "OK, that makes sense, but give me an example".  She got upset and said this wasn't about her this is about my issues.  Her mistakes and small and mine are big, so lets focus on mine.

I forgot to add... .

The thing is, she isn't really lying.  She does apologize all the time, for completely inconsequential stuff.  She bumps into me on accident in the kitchen.  Turns on a light in the bedroom when I'm already in there sleeping. Or something that someone else did.  She has no problem saying "Oh,I'm sorry".  You know, stuff that really doesn't require an apology.  So it's true, she really does apologize all the time.  We just have a disconnect on what "normal marriage issues" are. 

Yes, me, too. I'm already all but out of mine, so the point for me now is moot. In my specific case, and this is probably common for a lot of people here, my standard reply is she wants to talk about our now past r/s is:

How can we discuss normal marriage or r/s issues with a partner who thinks:

Everybody Cheat

Everybody Abandons

Every man in her life "fails" her in some way.

The answer is, you can't. Thus, I don't talk about things, even though she wants to sometimes. The conversations start diverging from the common initial point pretty quickly.

[Obibens]

For the everyday comments, swearing, etc., he does not apologize.  He never apologizes to the kids for anything even when he really should.  He is their master and they cannot defy him and he gets to say or do whatever he wants because he is in charge.

Oh I don't hear apologies for that kind of stuff either.  If she said something inappropriate or that would hurt someones feeling it's always our fault for being to darn sensitive.  I'm talking about the really really mundane stuff that nobody cares about anyway.

[Turkish]

For the everyday comments, swearing, etc., he does not apologize.  He never apologizes to the kids for anything even when he really should.  He is their master and they cannot defy him and he gets to say or do whatever he wants because he is in charge.

Oh I don't hear apologies for that kind of stuff either.  If she said something inappropriate or that would hurt someones feeling it's always our fault for being to darn sensitive.  I'm talking about the really really mundane stuff that nobody cares about anyway.

I posted this yesterday in another thread, I think, but when I called her out on her abuse (verbal), she replied, "I've always told you to stand up to me!"

No apology... .  just her desire to have me meet her bottomless bucket of needs. In this case, the need for me to be her father.