Beginnng stages of RTC take 3?

[peaceplease]

raytamtay,

I agree with others, do not bring your 6 year old there.  And, stay home and take care of yourself.  She will be fine. 

I am sorry about CPS not being able to help you with getting her into rtc now.  Hopefully, the report from CPS  going to the judge will help land her into rtc, soon!

Hang in there!

peace  

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[crazedncrazymom]

Raytam,

I just wanted to answer the address question.  This is the time that you can finally be completely in charge of what is and what isn't good for your dd.  Is her having that address good for her?  Is this person a positive or even semi-positive force in her life?  The answer to that question will give you the answer about the address.

[Verbena]

No six-year old should be taken for a jail visit.  Even telling your son his sister is in jail could be traumatic for him.  I don't believe your DD wants to see her brother anyway; she just wants to manipulate you by saying she doesn't want YOU but wants her little brother instead. 

I would also let her know that if she rages at you from jail or tries to manipulate you, insult you, or lie to you that you will not tolerate it and that you will hang up.  And then hang up when she won't respect those boundaries.  Your daughter has to learn that there are consequences.  ODD/BPD or not, she can't keep getting away with her behavior.  Hopefully, she is beginning to see the truth in that.   

[raytamtay3]

I didnt go. I already had planned to take DS6 to The Lego Movie in 3D. That doesnt have anything to do with not going tbough. We had fun. Its all aboht him now. He's missed out long.enough. we had fun DH, DS and me.

[MammaMia]

Raytam

Was the movie as awesome as they say?  I bet your son enjoyed it and the undivided attention.  Sounds like a good time was had by all.

[crumblingdad]

I also agree with not giving her addresses - last thing she needs is contact with those bad influences.  My dd did same thing when initially incarcerated then again when she went to RTC - she actually had names of jails that 3 of her friends were in and handed me letters to send them and asked me to look up the street address of the jails and send them for her when I transported her from juve to rtc.

They went in the trash, she asked me once if I sent them and I feel bad I did lie about saying I did but that was back in November and she's never asked again.  She now, 3 months later, couldn't care less about those friends or those letters so it's water under the bridge.

It's going to be a rollercoaster of emotions between now and her discharge to an RTC and I suspect that will continue.

On a visit to my DD this weekend she spoke to all the families visiting kids at a multi-family process group to explain she'd never thanked me or her mom for placing her in RTC and for all I had done to save her life and how grateful she was she had the opportunity to get where she is.  On a pass she told me how she used to try to rotate between being nice to me, guilt and anger to try to get her away and when one didn't work she conscientiously would try to get her way moving to the next. She asked if I realized she would do that and I said yes I did but your mother often got confused and wrapped up in it. So figured I'd pass on that tidbit to you that she will try playing nice, playing mean, playing guilt, and you name it.  She will do everything in her power to try to talk you out of continuing this process.  Stay strong you're doing a wonderful job.  My DD is nowehere near being "recovered" and still has a long road but recovery does happen and she may very well thank you down the road no matter what she says now.

[raytamtay3]

She called me last night, but I was in the shower. She only tried twice this time.  If she calls tonight I will ask her if she wants me to visit her tomorrow (DS is with his dad this week).

[muffetbuffet]

Been following your story also and know how helpless you must feel in all of this.  I live in PA and it has always been my understanding that dd (who is now age 16) had total control of her mental health services once she turned 14 (therapy and medications).  Regardless of age, she did NOT have control when we took her to the ER and had her placed for psych eval.  Then because it was a medical recommendation that she be placed in the RTF, she was unable to sign herself out.  I asked our family therapist at the RTF if any of the kids were able to sign themselves out and was told no because they would have no clients if that were the case    When DD was in placement, she would play the same games with the phone calls and our visits.  We got to a point that dd knew if she started yelling or being demanding with us, we hung up the phone.  At her facility, phone calls were monitored by staff so if there was a heated conversation, the staff usually called and followed up with us.  Also, DD had a tendency to try and control family therapy sessions.  She always wanted us to take her on an outing after a session. We did sometimes, but it was usually just a walk around campus or a trip to the local dollar store for personal items.  I remember prior to one session, she was set on us taking her for ice cream after therapy.  Well, during therapy, she got angry and stormed out of the room.  After giving her an opportunity for a cool down, therapist tried to get her to come back to our session.  NOT happening she said, but she still wanted to be taken out for ice cream.  She was told no and husband and I walked away listening to her screaming the whole time.  It wa hard to do but we also knew that we were not the ones dealing with the fallout of being told no.  Hang in there.

[raytamtay3]

DD didn't call her dad nor me last night. We are wondering if she moved up a level to be able to reach out to friends (only has the number of one whom we approve of, although she may give DD the ones we don't approve of). Or she was dropped down a level for misbehaviour. I tend to think the former. I may call today to see what's up.  I have to call anyway as I do plan on making a visit tonight. We'll see how that goes.

I also left a message for the detective to see if there have been any new developments. He is very forthcoming with information. He even said in the event CPS calls me, to tell them to call him because I've been more than cooperative.

[raytamtay3]

For some reason, I am really nervous to see DD tonight! I really miss her. It's starting to hit me now.  :'(

[jellibeans]

That is understandable... . for me I was afraid of the raging... . just keep it light and if she starts to rage then end it... . put that boundary in place and walk away. You will be fine... . she misses you too!

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[raytamtay3]

I just wrote her a letter. I haven't been able to bring myself to write until today. I just found out I have to mail it though. They won't let me give it to her tonight.

[MammaMia]

Raytam

Just breathe... . deep breaths.  Are you expecting trouble tonight because she has not called? 

Do not look for negatives, be positive.

Good advice from jellibeans.  If things get nasty, just leave. 

[raytamtay3]

I don't like conflict. Period.

[jellibeans]

Getting the letter in the mail will make more of an impact I am sure. Stay positive and validate like crazy! Walk away without anger if she begins to rage. She will be testing you but I also think she misses you and will be glad to see you.  

[raytamtay3]

So I walked into the center last night and when my DD saw me, she mumbled something and had a look of disgust on her face. She told me she thought it was her father visiting.

After about 5 minute of warm up, she lightened up and we starting talking about random things and it was a nice visit. The only time she got loud was when I told her I had to sell the Miley Cyrus tickets I had won off of a radio station to help pay for the cost of the lawyer. She banged her fist on the table and then looked over at the guard who was watching and immediately changed the subject.

She said that she is trying to "be good" there because after so many days of it, she would move up to a different level and be able to make phone calls to friends, have friends visit and order out food.

She looked great! The redness under her eyes is gone. Her complexion is clear. And even her hair looked great. I made sure to tell her this.

She said that she wanted to tell me something that I'm probably not going to want to hear. I said go on. She said that one of the girls there mentioned how she was at a transitional living place and how she would like to go there. I told her that it was actually one of the goals of her CM. She really perked up after that. I told her that first she will have to go to a residential treatment center and we can try to get her transitioned to such a place. She was very receptive to the idea. And even agreed that a RTC is a step she needed to take in this process.

Only one other time did she get aggigated. And that was when she brought up her lawyer. She said she does not want him anymore. Said that she fired him. And that she has that right because she is his client. I gently told her that he s now part of the process and that I pay for him, not her. Again she changed the subject when she realized she was getting aggigated again.

So it wasn't a bad visit at all. I did ask her if she wants me to come again Saturday and she said only if her dad doesn' come. I suspect it's because he is going to give her her friend's addressses. I'm willing to bet money on it!

[jellibeans]

good signs! baby steps... . this seems to be just what she needed. Isn't it amazing how they can control their emotions when they want something. My dd was always planning and plotting while in RTC... . she ran away too once she reached a level of freedom there... . oh those were the days! I think that is was a very positive visit... . I hope you are feeling more confident in your decision... .

[crumblingdad]

That's awesome news!

It's amazing how quickly they realize they want the help.  I found with my DD she wanted it the real fear tended to be her fear of failing at recovery and she has always said she feels she is  "crazy" and fears that feeling will never change.  The result is she has always resisted treatment because she feared failing at recovery.

So like jellibeans said, "baby steps" there will be many good and tough days ahead for the process but remind yourself along the way of progress.  This is the time to make some time for yourself in this process now that you have a break - take some of that break for yourself and enjoy some of it.

 I found this time in process I went through with my DD headed to RTC was when I really put my head into some invaluable books and resources on how I could effectively communicate with her, validation skills and understanding dbt skills.  Even if she doesn't learn them anytime soon being able to learn little tidbits on communication and validation is priceless during the process.

Here's a link to some good info that has a little audio presentation worth listening to:

The basic principles behind Dialectical Behavioral Therapy

And if I haven't suggested it I always highly recommend reading:

Overcoming Borderline Personality Disorder by Valerie Porr

[raytamtay3]

I dropped of more shampoo and conditioner to DD this morning on my way to work. I don't get to see her or anything. I left it with the front desk.  :)H wasn't too thrilled I did this. He feels she should have to ruff it in there. Well it made me feel good so. I wrote a note on a sticky "Happy Valentine's Day dd. I love you"!

Anyway Happy Valentine's Day to you all!    

[jellibeans]

Happy Valentines Day to you too!  

[raytamtay3]

DD called me Saturday night highly aggitated. She told me how she is having problems with some of the other girls in the center. My DD has brass balls let me tell you! . I honestly don't know where she gets it from as I have never had them! Her father is Italian and while he is all bark and no bite, his side of the family are tough. Anyway, she doesn't care how big you are, how old you are or how tough you are. She will never back down. I'm a bit afraid of this being where she is. I know some other girl recently got jumped. It's all stemming from her hair. She has hair down to the middle of her back and she sheds. So some of the girls have been making comments about it. I told my DD to just put it in a ponytail but she refuses saying their just going to have to deal. While her attitude can be very detrimental at this age, I do believe that it will serve her well in the future so long as you curves it a bit. I admire her for it. I was always a push over. And let me tell you, I'd probably roll over if I were in the position! !

Anyway, so she was very snippy with me and it got to one point where I reinforced that she needs some help and that I will do whatever it takes to get her that help. She went off about what type of mother I am for sending her DD there and how "EVERYONE" says they would never do that to their child blah-blah-blah. So I asked then why does she keep calling me? She said because she wants me to drop stuff off for her. I said so let me get this straight. You are going to sit here on the phone and be disrespectful to me and still expect me to drop stuff off for you? Well it doesn't work that way. She was talking over me so I said I was hanging up and did so.

Sunday night she called me again. Only this time she appologized!   My DD hardly ever appologizes. Now while I'm sure it's because she wants me to drop off the stuff to her, I still appreciate it. And I told her I did. She told me that she was very aggigated and I was the only one she could take it out on. I told her I get that and I do understand, but to please try and refrain from doing that. I told her I know she is frusterated. But that things can and will improve.

Then she started talking about RTC again. Again seeming very accepting of it. However she sdaid she's just going for three months. Hey, it's a start right? Even my DH was very impressed with her attitude last nighht. I had her on speaker. Baby steps.  The only thing that bothers me some is when I tellher I love her, she doesn't reciprocate. But I understand that too. She's angry. And that's ok. She's allowed to be.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[jellibeans]

I would say that was pretty good on both your parts. I am glad you stood your ground and hung the phone. 

[crazedncrazymom]

haha let her sign those papers.  It's funny how the kids HAVE to sign themselves in but once they get there it's a whole other game getting out

[crumblingdad]

Then she started talking about RTC again. Again seeming very accepting of it. However she sdaid she's just going for three months. Hey, it's a start right? Even my DH was very impressed with her attitude last nighht. I had her on speaker. Baby steps.  The only thing that bothers me some is when I tellher I love her, she doesn't reciprocate. But I understand that too. She's angry. And that's ok. She's allowed to be.

Sounds like there are definite baby steps and any progress is good progress - it's a roller coaster ride and can be so painful - truly admire all the effort you've put into getting her help and hopefully the right help and treatment is around the corner for your DD and for your family.

So I apologize in advance because I don't want to derail the thread and I'm about to be long winded on one sentence of your post…. 

The reciprocating was something I really struggled with myself.  Our DD had an aversion to showing love and affection from about age 8 (theres a long story tied into it but I'll save some of my long windedness).  She literally refused to give me a hug from age 8 and about 4 weeks ago I got the first hug I've gotten from her since she was 8 (and had to hold back tears to avoid making a spectacle of it so I keep getting them). Likewise, sometime between 8 and 10 she also stopped saying I love you back to us.  It was sometime last fall when she was able to say "I love you too" to me.  Even after that it's few and far between.

What I've come to learn though is I think the reality of it had nothing to do with us, it had to do with loving herself.  I believe now that she was feeling so much shame and so much guilt and self loathing that if she gives those emotions she feels a stronger connection and believes she will inevitably screw it up and lose us.  So for all these years I perceived her snubbing me by not giving me a hug or saying I love you when in fact she was trying to protect herself from showing her love. I believe In her mind avoiding emotion is easier then feeling it and if she doesn't say it or show it perhaps she won't have to feel it.  There's a whole lot of self-loathing going on with BPD and often we think actions are directed at us when they are truly directing those actions at themselves rather then us.

Just something that caught my eye as it was always something that hurt for me and I always was bothered yet knew if I made a big deal of it she'd never come around.  Good news is they are now limited hugs and not like she comes jumping into the air declaring her love and excitement to show affection but she does occasionally say I love you and she now kinda sheepishly allows me to give her a hug when I see her.  So keep the faith and hopefully having a different perspective on a possible reason why she might not be reciprocating might make one piece of this stressful and trying time in your life a little more tolerable.

 

[jellibeans]

Very insightful crumbling dad.  I had not looked at it that way. Something to really ponder

[raytamtay3]

I'm a very affectionate mother. Up until about 3 months ago, my DD was too. She use to crave affection in that she'd come up randomly and hug me or have to sit real close to me on the couch. That's definetly decreased signficantly. While I do miss it, I understand.

I went to the library last night and took out a book she asked for. I had planned on going to the center this morning and dropping off the stuff she requested but because of the snow (3" and considering it's all back roads to get there and are unplowed, I never made it. I expect her to be irritated when she calls asking where here stuff is.

[raytamtay3]

My DD is going to get her butt kicked at this center! She is fighting with all the other inmates. She yelled to them while I was on the phone with her just now to "shut up! Can't you see I'm on the phone". Then one got up like she was going to hit her and the girl got a time out.

She told me the evaluator came today also and that they said she doesn't need to go to an RTC. That she is going to fight it and have her do outpatient. Do you think that's true?

[jellibeans]

Is the evaluator from insurance? or where? If it is from insurance then yes I beleive her... . I think it is very hard to get insurance compamies to pay for RTC... .

Sound like your daughter is at the same place as mine was... . I remember the yelling to shut up... . oh the memories. I think she is learning some valueable lessons where she is and one might me to keep her mouth shut! 

Is there a way you can talk to someone to find out the real story?

[crumblingdad]

She told me the evaluator came today also and that they said she doesn't need to go to an RTC. That she is going to fight it and have her do outpatient. Do you think that's true?

I don't know that this would be true - depends on who this "evaluator" is.

If it's insurance it's possible but be sure you are prepared to appeal such a decision (most insurance plans allow you to appeal) if any such thing occurs.

[raytamtay3]

No, the judge had ordered a drug and alchol (sp?) Eval. I had one set up for Feb. 25, but considering she got incarcerated beforehand, the judge said she'd get.it in the detention center. And, in addition, undergo the phyc eval there as well. So I believe.it was the.former she.had done. She said.she wanted to tell me in person so she coukd see my face... . also asked if I'm going to fight it... . Anyway, there was an accident on the main road I take home from work which had.me stuck in traffic for a half hour longer than shoukd have, so I never made the visir tonight. Which of course.caused much anxiousness on my part, She.still effects me like that. And I kmow its not right to compare, but I still feel like I'm with her father in that I have.so muxh anxiety when it.comes.to her and her anticipated wrath. Its horrible how I allow a 14 year old child toc affect me like.this! She.still barks comands, and I still jump! Whats wrong with me! Im even considering making my son late for school to drop off her requested.supplies! Talk me down people... . Im on my.third.glass of wine, which is unlike me during the week, just.to cope!