Suddenly, he can't talk to me about anything.

[pixiecat]

Last week Monday we went out for a meal.  He asked me what I thought about something, a semi-political issue, and I told him.  They're views I've expressed before and it has never been a problem before that we hold some differing views on some topics.  Anyway, the conversation moved on and I thought we had a good evening.  We came back to my house and slept here.  The next morning he sent me an email saying he was anxious and down, that he felt low libido and also that he still felt very shocked by the previous night's conversation/'argument'.  I said he should tell me how he felt about that sometime.  We carried on talking in the day and everything was fine, saw each other that (Tuesday) evening. 

On Wednesday evening we didn't see each other and were chatting over IM.  He was a bit distant and I asked him about his feelings about our discussion on the Monday night as he said then that the low libido was linked to it.  He first said he didn't want to talk about it online and then told me that he had felt shocked by the depth of vehemence and that I had a radical uncompromising position which he didn't want to be subject to.  I told him I sympathised with him having an emotional reaction when someone is strongly expressing views and I clarified a few of my points.  I also said that I felt a bit depressed by this.  It was a brief and, I thought, mild conversation.  He said I had asked him his feelings and then JADEd him and he just stopped talking to me.  Nothing from him Thursday, Friday or Saturday except a diary cancellation 5 min before a date we were supposed to be going on Saturday. 

On Saturday night, I went over to his house.  He let me in and I said that if he was angry or upset with me, I'd rather he just let it all out rather than us studiously ignoring each other. He said he didn't want to get angry or anything.  What he did say was:

- He had been thinking a lot about why he had such bad reactions to me on the Monday and Wednesday evenings and couldn't work it out.  He said he had been extremely distressed by both.

- He has been discussing 'some issues' (wouldn't tell me what) in therapy that are unrelated to me, but he thinks that somehow these issues are being triggered so it's not me as such even though he can't immediately work out the connection. He said he thought needed the space from these bad reactions to try work out these issues.

- The reactions he had were so bad that he just wanted to stop, and that the not talking felt 'comfortable' and 'peaceful' for him, although he realised it was probably different for me (you think?) and that he had been aware there was 'an information gap' and that 'in general' I had a right to know what was happening

- He didn't have much to say to me, because there weren't many topics he was willing to discuss and didn't want to 'start conversations'

- He asked me why I had come over rather than sending him a SMS or email.  I told him it was because online communications often go badly.  Also, I didn't say this, but I wanted to end the silence and find out what was going on and he could have just ignored my email or given me a one line 'I'm not talking to you', which would've left me in a worse position.  Anyway he thanked me for coming over and said it was good I had.

- He didn't say he was ending the relationship, so I have no idea if he thinks he has or not.

I didn't stay that long and I didn't say much really. He said he thought he was over the withdrawal symptoms, but he does have a lot of things going on right now that would be stressful for anyone and he seemed genuinely very distressed at times.  It was clear that I can't engage him in any kind of proper conversation at the moment.  I said I would leave him alone and asked if he would contact me when he was able to.  He said he would.

On Sunday morning I woke up to an email saying I shouldn't come 'pounding' at his door because it wasn't necessary and and I could have sent a SMS or email.  His doorbell is broken and I knocked with one finger on the glass pane in the door, no pounding.  I just replied repeating that I would leave him alone and he didn't have to worry about it.  On Sunday evening he sent me an SMS asking me if I wanted anything from the shop like he has done hundreds of times (He has to walk past my house to go there and always asks if I need anything).  I was a bit taken aback and said yes ok he could get me something because I wanted to see what was going on.  He arrived shortly afterwards, tried to use his keys to come in, walked in and put things in my kitchen and the reason, it turns out, he did all this is that he bought something from the shop for my son (that had come back into stock there).  We chatted for a while amicably and I asked him if he would update me on two big stressful things that were happening on Monday and let me know if he was OK. He said he would and he did.  We had a longish SMS conversation about what had happened and then conversation stopped again in the evening.

I don't know what to think or do :-( This is worse than the big arguments/splits we've had.  I feel like I've had the rug pulled from under my feet.  One minute I have a caring and (relatively stable) relationship and the next minute I have no idea what is going on and he's saying he can't talk to me about anything.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Tolou]

Hey pix,

there is only so much u can do.  If he is in therapy and making progress it will take time.  Maybe some of things he is working on in therapy is better off left there and not with you.  Part of that progress can be hurtful when people realize that their behaviors and reactions etc... . have had such an effect on the people that care about them for a long time.  Best thing maybe to just let him know that when he does want to communicate those things to you that you will be ready and willing to listen without judgement.  Other than that, you can't fix it, or him, or the disorder, it's not your place.

have you been in any therapy>?  maybe that can sometimes help to have some rational perspective and feedback when ther eis just too much overwhelming you.

[Lilibeth]

Pixiecat i really feel for you - what an emotional roller coaster. It's the most awful thing and hurts badly. What Tolou says makes a lot of sense: Best thing maybe to just let him know that when he does want to communicate those things to you that you will be ready and willing to listen without judgement.  Other than that, you can't fix it, or him, or the disorder, it's not your place.

I've understood from being with this family that you cannot fix your husband/partner with BPD. Nor can you change him. You have to put yourself and your feelings first here and get yourself intact. For that, painful as it is, you may have to step back a little. I also have this happening, Pixiecat and the thought of thinking of myself never occurred to me and when anyone mentioned it i thought it would be selfish - if i can help, why not. But the thing is you really cannot. I'm working on myself right now, trying to regain myself - i've been seeing that when i step back, and after his reaction that i don't care, etc., he gets back to himself. This way we're on an emotional roller coaster all the time and it can be devastating and paralyzing... . Let him work it out in his own way and communicate it to you or talk with you when he is ready.Meanwhile, try not to put your life on hold, Pixiecat. Believe me, nothing is solved and it just goes round and round...

[pixiecat]

Thanks.  I do know I can't help him or fix him.  I did used to try, but reached the realisation I couldn't do a while ago.  I just feel floored by this latest setback, at going from close partner to someone he can't/won't communicate with overnight and not knowing what is going on.  That is very hard.  What about me?  He's clearly not well at the moment, and experiencing some kind of crisis which means I won't do anything to distress him, but who supports me in this situation?

We were supposed to be seeing friends over the weekend and when my friend contacted me to confirm, I had no idea what to say. (I told her the truth though).  Or when family ask how we are or suggest plans.

He has actually wanted me to get a therapist.  I did start seeing one for a few sessions last year, talking about general issues before getting onto the relationship but I stopped because I could no longer afford it. The therapist was very good and, in fact is the same one he is now seeing - he was in a real state and this therapist is located very close to where we live. The therapist initially said there was a conflict of interest so I told therapist I would not return to them so that he could.  I would try find another, though not sure I can afford it.  I also feel like it would be hard to explain everything, although maybe I could find someone familiar with BPD.

I do have the friend I mentioned, but I can't keep leaning on them for support and no-one else I know understands BPD really.

[pixiecat]

Thank you for your replies Toulou and Lilibeth.  I really appreciate it and am sorry you have been through the same.

[Tolou]

If the therapy was working for you, you should look into to it again, it's unfortunate you had to give the other one up, but it would have been a conflict since your in a relationship.  Try finding a therapist that has a fee scale or maybe some that are free? do not know what your work or insurance situation is like, some jobs have free counseling as support services available to their employess.

And your right, what about you? You need think that way if you want to maintain a healthy realtionship, be honest, don't lie, don't cover things up to make it look like " "... . Because before you know it, you will be the problem (I'm hoping that won't be your case). read as much as you but not too much at once... . Give it time between the things you read to process so your not overloading.  He needs to deal with these issues, but you also need to be in a reciprocal realtionship, where things you need can be return.  And you can ask yourself what are you getting out of being in this relationship with person, is this filling a void>? Or adding to it>? Working with a thrapist might be worth it maybe you can ask the old therapist for a referral, or if they help with info towards people who are skilled BPD and may be able to take you at a less of a charge?

[pixiecat]

I feel so angry at his blithe lack of concern or understanding what this will be doing to me, and the way he said "The silence isn't bothering me. I am finding it comfortable." .  Yes, he has issues he needs to sort, but he is also an adult who is behaving selfishly and cruelly and doesn't appear to be able to see it or care in this state.  Often he is extremely caring and thoughtful, he was in the days leading up to this, but then throws this into my life.

I am so exhausted, it really felt like we were continuing to make progress.   And we were. It wasn't a heady idealisation optimising, but things were improving by small amounts. Now I feel so discouraged at this setback.

What does he think I must feel like at everything he's said?  Probably is not thinking about it at all actually.

[pixiecat]

And you can ask yourself what are you getting out of being in this relationship with person, is this filling a void>? Or adding to it>? Working with a thrapist might be worth it maybe you can ask the old therapist for a referral, or if they help with info towards people who are skilled BPD and may be able to take you at a less of a charge?

Yes, I have been in an almost constant state of trying to evaluate this.

1. What does he bring to my life?

2. Is this too damaging to me?

3. Is there a realistic hope that we can have any kind of healthy future together?

[Tolou]

Look.  Try not to over think this, if he wants to handle things with being immature and going into this silent treatment what you need to evaluate maybe is this really progress?

If he continue this, you need to know what it is that you want and what your willing to put up with... Because things get rocky and ruff in most realtionships at time, but usually whats causes the breakdown in many relationships in the lack of or failure to communiate... . If he chooses to be distant and you have voiced how this makes you feel and he continues to do it, what does that tell u?

take time for yourself, gather your thought, maybe get away for a few days, do some things you have been wanting to do ,maybe even join a gym to help release a little.  Then ask yourself, is this what I want.  And if it is, you going to need help.  Even though he is in therapy, he can only get better if he works very hard wants too, and put forths the effort.  Better yourself, work on yourself get yourself as strong as you can while your with another because he won't be your crutch, he wasnt you to be his.

[pixiecat]

Just an update to say that he has now explained what the bad feelings were and we're now communicating about those.  I guess, with the progress I thought we had been making, I had forgotten how deep and painful these feelings are for him.

I'm still not happy about how I got to experience the whole thing, and that will have to be broached later.  But he pushed through a lot to be able to open up and tell me what the actual issue was.

[Stalwart]

Pixie, I feel for you in your situation. I'm sure some won't agree with what I have to say but it's my perception and I know well that you can't paint the world of BPD or even two individuals with the same brush.

I've actually spoken to dozens of women with BPD on this very subject as well and as shocking as it may seem to someone unfamiliar with it, some people, in fact a lot of them are affected in a way emotionally that is shocking and can take you back a few steps to even consider possible.

People with BPD are often viewed upon, branded and stereotyped  psychopathic. Whether that is true or there is a co-morbid relationship in some cases or not;  the same response, or lack of them in their behaviour sometimes certainly supports the questions of the validity in this. Perhaps it isn’t actually diagnosable as psychopathic but their behaviors’ can seem to be related to it because they certainly do emulate it.

My wife has the absolute capability of focusing so desperately on her feelings and present situations that she has NO ability to focus on mine or how they affect me or anyone else at all. Also, many have the absolute ability to ‘turn off a switch’ (as they describe it) with concern to any emotional attachment to a spouse in a second and truly feel no positive feelings toward them at all, regardless of your deservedness or history together. The more you search to read on this subject the more you’ll find it substantiated by professionals and people with the disorder themselves. It’s also quite alarming to process and understand some of the emotions that some people do not possess, by their own admission but have managed to mimic and recognize in others and still manage to spend their lives under the radar hiding that fact. Now that my wife is open, more honest and forthcoming about some of the things she thinks, feels, doesn’t feel and has always struggled with I can tell you there are moment of shock as well as  horrible empathy that I feel when listening and understanding what she saying to me about herself.

It’s frightening and disheartening to understand a person could possess these qualities and it doesn’t mean they possess them on a full time basis, although after experiencing it enough and being a little more knowledgeable about it and aware that is also hard to understand,  turning ‘on and off’ emotional attachment and if in fact the ‘turn on’ phase is actually real or manufacturer affection.

I’m hoping this isn’t the case that you’re facing and that your problems and challenges together can work out in a positive direction but it’s always good to be aware of some of these peculiarities that some have. It is emotionally devastating to be subjected to some of the behaviours especially when you feel so undeserved of being treated that way.

He seems to be responsive and open in answering questions about his emotions. You may want to approach these questions and this subject with him, however as always, weigh up carefully if you really want the answers. Some of them can be devastatingly harsh and painful to come to a realization of.

[joethemechanic]

Also, many have the absolute ability to ‘turn off a switch’ (as they describe it) with concern to any emotional attachment to a spouse in a second and truly feel no positive feelings toward them at all

Oh God, you don't know how many times I've heard that. I can remember back in the 80's when my BPDgf first told me about "The switch". She couldn't understand why I didn't have a switch.

[guitarguy09]

Hi Pixie,

I know what it feels like to be in a haze about why things are happening in a certain way. There is just so much unpredictability in BPD relationships. Like just last weekend, my uBPDw was in a great mood on Friday, but blew up at me on Saturday afternoon. Go figure, we ended up having a nice evening and a really fun Sunday as well. 

[Lilibeth]

Pixie, i really hope you will be able to find your own emotional space and peace. This sounds so terrible, but we can't give up on ourselves, and our ability to deal with this - i think we owe it to ourselves too to be able to get off the roller coaster... . We're all supporting you, Pixie. I remember a supposedly well-meaning 'friend' telling me every time she saw me on one of my roller coaster rides to 'leave the ass'. That was clearly not the solution for me... . it is only here that i have found understanding and support - you cannot deny or not give the good, happy times weightage... . but being in the rs only for these few times would be a terrible strain. There is a way out - we can fix the way we go about our BPDs, so that we take the roller coasters in our stride.

[unicorn2014]

Wow pixie, I can totally relate to what you're saying. You're fortunate that your BP is in therapy, and wants to be in therapy, not all do. If he has a therapist then I'd definitely give him the space to work those things out. Also I agree with those people who said its probably best your SO work out certain things in therapy and not with you.

[pixiecat]

Thank you for the additional comments.  It does help to know others understand.

He really is in a bad way since stopping the anti-depressants and it is exceptionally bad timing due to there being a number of big and stressful things going on.  Yesterday morning he said he may need to go back on to them. I said that there would be nothing wrong with doing that and reminded me that the advice for anti-depressants is to only stop after at least 6 months of feeling better.  We are limiting the amount of time we speak to each other although we met very briefly for coffee and that was fine.  Last night I told him that I thought he really was not in a good way at the moment (lots of negative bleak thoughts about himself, dropping into intense suicidal feelings very rapidly) and asked him to go back onto them.  It was a difficult conversation but ok.  We agreed not to try discuss anything else as we'd reached the limit of hard topics for the day, but then the conversation did drift back onto a trigger point for him and he said no anti-depressants, no getting support, he must battle on and only rely on himself.  I didn't reply to that.  I just said it was very late and that I needed to sleep and should stop talking to protect us both from some emotional runaway spiralling discussion.  It worked and I went to bed in an ok mood, without fretting over his last statement.

[pixiecat]

I left something out.  When we first spoke about going back on the anti-depressants last night, he agreed that he needed to and promised to get them today.  We spoke about it for a bit and he was accepting and agreeing he should.  It was only later when something had upset him that he said no he wouldn't.

I am not going to push that today.  He should be seeing his therapist tonight and all I can do is hope he thinks about it again today and talks about it tonight with them.

[pixiecat]

In the same conversation as asking him to go back on the ADs, I also told him I released him of emotional obligation to stay in a relationship with me (he is massively codependent) because I can see how much pain he is in and if it's causing additional stress and he has to be alone without the stress in order to survive then he must.  He didn't respond to that bit and said we should forget I said it.

[Lilibeth]

Be careful here, Pixie, 'cos he may just turn that against you and again cause you grief.Just concentrate on getting yourself strong, Pixie, both emotionally and mentally... .

[Tolou]

One thing for me that I personally couldn't tolerate was the suicidal gestures, threats and attempts.  It turned my entire life upside down and I walked away when I realized that this person I care about might really die, I didn't want that in my mind or my life.

Pixie- I think your doing the right things, communication is key in a realtionship.  Someone once told me "a healthy realtionship is when two independent people come togeather and become inter-dependent of one another".

when there a person who is dependent and etc... . it makes things difficult.  Sometimes the AD's are coupled with SSRI's and it helps but let it be his choice, he is in therapy... . the most important thing for him is to continue therapy, work on himself and be honest with the therapist so he get the best help available.  It sounds like your enmeshed in t his relationship... . I could be wrong, but ask yourself, what would my life be like if I was in a HEALTHY realtionship with someone.  Why are you putting yourself through this unless it something that you can see working out>?  It takes time for therapy to really make a difference depending on the severity of the BPD and how much work the patient is willing to do.  The AD's make a huge difference in some cases, but the therapist goal for crisis patients, is to work on the suicide risk, and once that has gone, they work on the other issues.  His threatening suicide is just an indication of how unhealthy he still is and his thinking.  If it's not true when he does threaten, thats emotional blackmail, he just knows how you or others may respond to the gestures, either way, it's not fair for both people involved.

[pixiecat]

Thanks both.

I clarify that he doesn't actually make suicide threats or gestures or tell me he's feeling that way at the time.  He will tell me afterwards that he had intense feelings of feeling suicidal.  It's still upsetting and horrible, but not quite the same as direct threats being used.

[acknowledgement]

I am sorry for everyone's pain but grateful for this support. My longtime friend and i planned to have an annual get together (we live a distance apart) right before the trip last year she started a major drama and silent treatment for weeks over a perceived wrongdoing, her reality not the facts, and then this year she said she forgot about the trip... I had surgery and we had less contact for a week or two then it was my birthday and she sent an e mail that she "doesn't want to talk RIGHT now and she feels different, not bad, different, and she has changed" . I left a few phone messages asking her to call back , silence. Do you recommend. Set communication or just let the silence ride out until she can regulate. I have known her for decades, watched her destroy or damage other relationships, however I do care former deeply and don't want to abandon her, isn't that the BPDs ,greatest fear? She has somewhat replaced me with another friend... . please,can you offer any advice?

[pixiecat]

Hi acknowledgement. I'm not really sure I'm qualified to offer advice on your situation, but perhaps if you posted a new topic on one of the forums with your question, more people might see it?

[pixiecat]

We didn't speak during the day really but he's just told me that he took the prescription in to go back onto the anti-depressants (will only get them next week as it needs to go back to his Dr though) and that he spoke to his therapist about it and they were supportive of it.

I'm feeling very good that I stopped the conversation last night, avoided upset, got good sleep and didn't try to do anything about it today 

[unicorn2014]

One thing for me that I personally couldn't tolerate was the suicidal gestures, threats and attempts.  It turned my entire life upside down and I walked away when I realized that this person I care about might really die, I didn't want that in my mind or my life.

Pixie- I think your doing the right things, communication is key in a realtionship.  Someone once told me "a healthy realtionship is when two independent people come togeather and become inter-dependent of one another".

when there a person who is dependent and etc... . it makes things difficult.  Sometimes the AD's are coupled with SSRI's and it helps but let it be his choice, he is in therapy... . the most important thing for him is to continue therapy, work on himself and be honest with the therapist so he get the best help available.  It sounds like your enmeshed in t his relationship... . I could be wrong, but ask yourself, what would my life be like if I was in a HEALTHY realtionship with someone.  Why are you putting yourself through this unless it something that you can see working out>?  It takes time for therapy to really make a difference depending on the severity of the BPD and how much work the patient is willing to do.  The AD's make a huge difference in some cases, but the therapist goal for crisis patients, is to work on the suicide risk, and once that has gone, they work on the other issues.  His threatening suicide is just an indication of how unhealthy he still is and his thinking.  If it's not true when he does threaten, thats emotional blackmail, he just knows how you or others may respond to the gestures, either way, it's not fair for both people involved.

This is helpful, thanks. My pwBPD just made a suicide attempt last week and it seems like I'm just supposed to take that in stride. I'm not going to. To me that definitely put the breaks on. He may minimize it, but I take that stuff very seriously.