Would it be easier for you if your BPDex had died?

[Octoberfest]

To clarify: This is NOT asking, "Are you so angry at your BPDex you wish they were dead?"

A song came on the radio recently that brought me back a little... .   "Say Something" by A Great Big World.

Say something, I'm giving up on you

I'll be the one, if you want me to

Anywhere I would've followed you

Say something, I'm giving up on you

And I am feeling so small

It was over my head

I know nothing at all



And I will stumble and fall

I'm still learning to love

Just starting to crawl



Say something, I'm giving up on you

I'm sorry that I couldn't get to you

Anywhere I would've followed you

Say something, I'm giving up on you

And I will swallow my pride

You're the one that I love

And I'm saying goodbye



Say something, I'm giving up on you

And I'm sorry that I couldn't get to you

And anywhere I would've followed you (Oh-oh-oh-oh)

Say something, I'm giving up on you

Say something, I'm giving up on you

Say something... .


The bolded parts are what really spoke to me, specifically, "I'm sorry I couldn't get to you".  It got me thinking... . So many people here struggle with closure, or a lack thereof.  I consider myself one of the lucky, as my BPDex at the very end pretty much admitted it was her who was messed up and that I am way better off without her.  I remember the text conversation, from 9 months ago.

Her: Forget about me

Me: Why would I forget about you?

Her: Because I was never good for you.  You are so much better of a person than I could ever dream of being, and as sad as that is we both know it is true.  so just forget about me OK?  Forget about all of the garbage I brought into your life and go be that amazing man that I know that you are.  Can you do that for me?

Even given that, in comparison to many peoples "closure" here, GOLDMINE of closure, I still struggled like hell to let go... . and my T told me, "I think in a lot of way it would be easier for you if <BPDex> had died".  Thinking about it, I agree... . There is definitive closure there.  No more wondering, no more watching to see if they repeat patterns... . Honestly when I lost my BPDex (I finally ended things after catching her cheating AGAIN), I mourned and grieved as though she HAD died.  I guess in my mind when someone has died it closes the book so to speak.  I am having a hard time articulating what I mean here, but hopefully this will prompt some thought in some of you.  I look forward to seeing your thoughts.

[Johnny Alias]

I see your point and though I don't wish that upon someone who hurt me so many times so badly... . It would be instant closure.

Honestly the way she drinks and drives, smokes, and parties it might not be far off. In two years when her looks are gone will be good enough for me.

Another gal I went out with who cheated lied and stole (more ASPD) got married, had a kid, and moved to another state. That was enough.

Wish I could just erase the memory of my most recent... . But then I'd probably fall for another one just like her... .

[maxen]

Would it be easier for you if your BPDex had died?

more than one person has said to me 'think of this as a bereavement'. but death is a natural event, it's part of everyone's life, however hard it is to get past. what my BPDstbxw did was deceitful and hateful, or at best epically cowardly, and then she baited me with talk of reconciliation and refusal to file for divorce, while living in open adultery and expecting me to wait while she decided what she was feeling. i never again want to be where i have been these last months (and where i'll still be for months or years to come). this experience has been harder than the death of my father.

[santa]

Probably not.

It would have been easier if she'd never been born though.

[guitargrl]

yes because at least he wouldn't keep coming back….

[love4meNOTu]

I doubt he makes it another 20 years.

So no.

[Want2know]

I had to think about this one for a bit... .

If he had died when we were still in the relationship, I wonder if I would have minimized the negative things about him, or twisted them in a way that made him more of a martyr.  If that happened, I'm not sure I would have learned as much as I did about human behavior as it relates to partnered relationships.  I might have found myself back in the same type of relationship, living out the previous one as some type of transference, trying to resolve my grief and/or issues from the prior relationship.  

[Pearl55]

I think yes.

[Perfidy]

Hi octoberfest, how have you been? I'm still here! Getting stronger every day. I have a commitment to my self. One year. I couldn't start the real healing until the suffering stopped.

Just wanted to comment on this thread. Everyone is different. I view the pwBPD that was in my life as dead. She actually approached me last Saturday. First time we had been in the same room since last May. She wanted to talk to me. I told her I didn't know her, then walked out and left. The person that I knew, effectively died, when my identity was released and then she attached to another person. I did not know that person. I think that's why we feel like a part of ourselves died in this, because they were showing us our selves.

In contrast, a relative of mine, a first cousin, his girlfriend did die. She had strong cluster b traits. She cheated on him, abused substance, reckless behavior, high risk. Ten years ago she was killed in a drunk driving accident. He still grieves it like it happened yesterday.  

[myself]

It would be more closure, but really I wish she would just live better.

[Popcorn71]

It would have been much easier. As my ex was much older than me, I had always imagined one day becoming a widow but never anticipated divorce. It would have been better as I would not have felt so let down, unwanted and conned. Additionally I would have been much better off financially as he was insured  

[Waifed]

The simple answer is, yes It would be easier.  It doesn't really matter too much since I have no contact with her anymore.

[seeking balance]

"I think in a lot of way it would be easier for you if <BPDex> had died".  Thinking about it, I agree... .

So, one of my best childhood friends husband died the same month my ex moved out... . our grief process was very similar regarding to a marriage ending seemingly out of our control.

The difference - my core hurt triggered.  Call it narcisstic injury, ego, etc - but all of us on this board have this by the very nature we sought out an external validation to prove we are not crazy ourselves.

The grief - yeah it is the relationship on the surface... . if you dig deep, the real grief is the core "am I good enough" "do I matter" doubt that was likely a result of our FOO.

GREAT Conversation to have Octoberfest!

[Waifed]

"I think in a lot of way it would be easier for you if <BPDex> had died".  Thinking about it, I agree... .

So, one of my best childhood friends husband died the same month my ex moved out... . our grief process was very similar regarding to a marriage ending seemingly out of our control.

The difference - my core hurt triggered.  Call it narcisstic injury, ego, etc - but all of us on this board have this by the very nature we sought out an external validation to prove we are not crazy ourselves.

The grief - yeah it is the relationship on the surface... . if you dig deep, the real grief is the core "am I good enough" "do I matter" doubt that was likely a result of our FOO.

GREAT Conversation to have Octoberfest!

I agree.  I still would love to have validation that she ever even thinks about me.  It is silly and doesn't matter but I think that is probably one of the last things that is keeping me from totally letting her go.  I will get their without validation but it would accelerate the process.

[DiamondSW]

NO... .

NOT AT ALL

The only Joy I get at the moment is knowing that she's alive and attending her therapy sessions.  And I in turn will attend mine. 

I may severely dislike her, but I'd hate myself more if she were dead.  She's a good person, she's just seriously ill and what happened to her as a child I wouldn't wish on Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, you name them. 

It would be easier for me if she gets better, her psychiatrists do their best and one day she says sorry and gives me a hug.  I'm told it's a decade away x

[seeking balance]

  I will get their without validation but it would accelerate the process.

yeah - that rebuilding our own worth with our own actions that are aligned with our values takes some time... . but it is real and won't be ripped out from under us now 

[Waifed]

  I will get their without validation but it would accelerate the process.

yeah - that rebuilding our own worth with our own actions that are aligned with our values takes some time... . but it is real and won't be ripped out from under us now 

I am 5 months into therapy and am being told by therapist that it will take 2+ years to be "healthy".  We will see.  I know I am 100% better already. It drives my ex wife (not BPD) crazy because I refuse to engage in her attempts at control and manipulation.  She tells me that It drives her crazy!  I no longer crave the craziness.  Sorry... . not attempting to hijack.

[GuiltHaunted]

Octoberfest,

If she had died before the breakup... . I think the answer would be YES, it would have been easier. Because there wouldn't have been the deceit, withdrawal of love and seemingly indifference. I short, the love would not have gone. Of course this is purely hypothetical and very egoistic.

If she was to die now, it would only make it worse. Because (stupid me), I am still hoping for some closure down the line.


As for your story, I can tell a somewhat similar one. 1 1/2 months past breakup, she raged at me per text (also 1 1/2 months, her in a new relationship with her sister's ex-bf(!)).

She accused me of me of being the worst lowlife scum that ever happened to her, and she would be happy when I had picked up my furniture and she wouldn't ever have to see me again. That I didn't care about her one bit, and that I hadn't called to ask how she was doing (hello? she was in a new relationship!).

I assured her, that I hadn't contacted her out of respect for her wishes as she had requested. And then I texted (whatsapp) her the long letters I had written her, but didn't sent. In one of the letters, I had written that I wished we could start all over, from when we met with the introduction "hello my name is... . ".

She then wrote:

I find what you have written great. That you found out what matters in life. You should present yourself like that to another girl and leave me alone.

Me:

I was afraid to call you. I thought constantly about how you were doing.

Her:

Find a nice girl and make a great life, be good to her and don't grow old alone because of stupid fear. Bye

Me:

That was the reply I was fearing.

Her:

With out me nobody needs to fear anything.

... .

Me:

I understand that you didn't expect that reaction from me.

Her:

Of course I didn't, the way you cut me off. If I had expected that, I wouldn't have written something like that to you (referring to what a lowlife scum she had written I was, in the first message). Please don't get any hope. We don't belong together. I am sorry I hurt your feelings, I didn't know.

And for those that speak German (octoberfest?), and would like to read how to really offend people:

Hallo, ich reiße mich jeden Tag am Riemen Dir etwas mitzuteilen.

Heute isses soweit 

Du bist die unehrlichste, kleinlichste und wiederlichte Person die mir passieren konnte.

Ich freue mich riesig wenn Du endlich Deine Scheisse restlos mitgenommen hast und ich Dich niemals wieder sehe 

Übrigens spühren auch andere deine Unehrlichkeit.

Danke auch für die gelogenen Nachrichten Du würdest bei deiner Tante übernachten.

Fahr zur Hölle Du Drecksau.

MFG

[seeking balance]

  I no longer crave the craziness.  Sorry... . not attempting to hijack.

this would be a super thread in PI... . sorry Octoberfest, I love to bring it around to PI when the door opens... .

[BorisAcusio]

  I will get their without validation but it would accelerate the process.

yeah - that rebuilding our own worth with our own actions that are aligned with our values takes some time... . but it is real and won't be ripped out from under us now 

I am 5 months into therapy and am being told by therapist that it will take 2+ years to be "healthy".  We will see.  I know I am 100% better already. It drives my ex wife (not BPD) crazy because I refuse to engage in her attempts at control and manipulation.  She tells me that It drives her crazy!  I no longer crave the craziness.  Sorry... . not attempting to hijack.

So it takes 2,5 years to heal from a relationship of 3,5 years? It's pretty scary.

[DreamGirl]

It's a really interesting question, Octoberfest.

Even given that, in comparison to many peoples "closure" here, GOLDMINE of closure, I still struggled like hell to let go... . and my T told me, "I think in a lot of way it would be easier for you if <BPDex> had died".  Thinking about it, I agree... . There is definitive closure there.  No more wondering, no more watching to see if they repeat patterns... . Honestly when I lost my BPDex (I finally ended things after catching her cheating AGAIN), I mourned and grieved as though she HAD died.  I guess in my mind when someone has died it closes the book so to speak.  I am having a hard time articulating what I mean here, but hopefully this will prompt some thought in some of you.  I look forward to seeing your thoughts.

I think there is finality in death and I think that may be where your therapist thought it "easier".  

It takes away any power and it takes away any choice.

It might help quiet that little voice that says "Why wasn't I good enough?"

I don't know that one is better then the other though. You trade one set of processing for another - but those core issues/wounds still exist waiting to be dealt with (like for me, my own abandonment fears).

These kinds of events just bring them right up to the surface.

[Eodmava]

In my opinion the death of a loved one or friend is far easier to deal with emotionally.  Even the death of a BPD friend or lover is easier to take than the breakdown of a BPD relationship.  The finality of a death brings closure.  In essence, we grieve a future we didn't get to share with our loved one, whether they were BPD or not.  

The "death of a BPD relationship" also includes the grief associated with the loss of a future.  However, in the case of the "death of a BPD relationship" the partner is left not only grieving the future, but also your present and your past.  

The present in that you have to grieve the loss of your friend/lover who has now turned into an enemy.  I have lost plenty of friends in my 40 years walking the earth, but never did I have a friend turn into a mortal enemy who was hell bent on my destruction and suffering and absolutely free of remorse.  So there is that pain to deal with.

As far as the past goes... . well, this is the hardest part of the process of leaving my ex-wife.  Are the memories of the 16 years we spent together even real?  Heck, we grew up together.  Prior to the last 5 years, things really were not that bad and I could have gone to my grave in that relationship.  I look back at the old pictures of her and wonder "was she even really there?"  I find myself questioning all the feelings I felt, the intimate moments we shared (conceiving our first child, our baby's first steps, her college graduation, our first new car, buying our first house) and I wonder if she remembers any of those times.

I took me about a year of grieving with a purpose and systematically walking through all those memories in order to come to some semblance of balance.  I also had to gradually move to a low contact posture with her.  None of this came easy, but 14 months out and on the eve of Valentine's Day and our Anniversary, I could care less about her in a romantic sense.  I will always care a little, but right now all my energy is on protecting my two amazing daughters and getting through the divorce process with as little collateral damage as possible.

Mava    

[Moonie75]

I've thought about this often & think, yes. I've told myself several times would be easier if she were no longer alive.

I do not wish her death or physical harm.

Just a selfish way to consider healing under different circumstances.

Moonie.

[Turkish]

Would it be easier for you if your BPDex had died?

more than one person has said to me 'think of this as a bereavement'. but death is a natural event, it's part of everyone's life, however hard it is to get past. what my BPDstbxw did was deceitful and hateful, or at best epically cowardly, and then she baited me with talk of reconciliation and refusal to file for divorce, while living in open adultery and expecting me to wait while she decided what she was feeling. i never again want to be where i have been these last months (and where i'll still be for months or years to come). this experience has been harder than the death of my father.

Not married, as you know, but mine, too. It wasn't so "open" but it was to me. She even got sympathy from a few circles! And to think we tried to work it out at that point she decided to stay... . she said, but then was endlessly texting, talking... . our r/c lasted about a week before I caught her pathologically lying to me. Honesty (accountability), I can work with. Pathological lying is... . well, pathological. That's when I realized there was nothing to salvage and technically called it done. Then later she called herself "sick" and took that power away from me, too. The PD she thinks she has excuses everything, and embracing it, she enables herself.

Amazing the lengths they go to to justify their actions. She was even telling me all about him at that time as if she were seeking my approval. Sick! I pegged him as a probable NPD right away. They can have each other. Good riddance. Sorry for a little hijack there... .

FTR, I don't like the implications of thinking about this thread for me, so I won't answer.

[starshine]

Yes.  Since we had wills and medical power of attorney over each other I would have gotten the house, the cars, everything.  And I wouldn't have to hear about him or have the fear of running into him.  It would have totally changed everything had he just died. 

[Turkish]

Yes.  Since we had wills and medical power of attorney over each other I would have gotten the house, the cars, everything.  And I wouldn't have to hear about him or have the fear of running into him.  It would have totally changed everything had he just died. 

I  still have mine as my primary beneficiary.  still deciding what to do for the sake of the kids.  if she died,  I'd be no better off financially.  if I  did,  she wouldn't be exactly rich,  but she'd be set for the next 30  years if she were smart, especially getting death benefits for the kids  it's how I  felt about a  year ago in the r/s,  so devalued I  just wanted to drop dead.  luckily, I  hit the  living will and trust in process last summer,  but never got past the first draft.  Will rethink  who will have power  over my death now... .

[Octoberfest]

This thread has turned out very interestingly... . A whole lot of things have been brought up that I hadn't even considered when I first made this post... . Chief among them wills/finances/power of attorney type things.  I guess at 20 years old and having never married life is still pretty simple  

I hadn't even considered the *when* of if our BPDex's had died- that is to say, when we were still in the relationship or afterwards. One of my friends, the guy who mentored me and taught me everything about the Fraternity I joined on campus, was killed in a car crash about a week before school started last year.  It was shocking and unexpected, and also the first (and only, I am blessed) loss I have experienced of someone I was close to. His funeral was the first day everyone was back on campus, and we all made the 7 hr drive there, had the funeral, and then the drive back on the same day. It was that night, as my friends and I had decided to go out and party to try and lighten up, that I met my BPDex.  The next night I went out again, and it was then that the grief hit me. I hadn't cried, I hadn't really let myself feel the emotion of the loss of my friend until I just hit a breaking point and it all came out. I was at a party a few blocks from the dorm where my BPDex lived and I walked over, and on the 2nd night of knowing her, she came out and I wrapped my arms around her and balled my eyes out.  She came back with me to the Fraternity where I talked with my close friends for awhile and cried more and then we went to bed... . I cried myself to sleep and she was just there for me.  It was the most freeing and healing thing in the world to just let the sadness out, and after I had grieved, I was OK.  I haven't cried or really gotten down about my friend that passed since, I have accepted it and moved on (except for a week ago when I saw a picture of him and called him a ass, because if he hadn't of gone and died I wouldn't have met my BPDex that night  ).

Doing the same with my BPDex just is not possible, and I think it is this reality that brought this train of thought.  Part of the problem is, even in the short 9 months I had with my BPDex, and for how, generally speaking, crappy they were, I lost sight of life without her; I had accepted that she was my life from now on, good and bad.  So it is bizarre and uncomfortable to think of her still existing, still living, but our lives being separate.  It is just strange to have gotten and felt as close to her and to have had that robbed by something else than death.

Perfidy- I am doing well.  May I ask what your 1 year commitment is in reference to?  It is interesting to hear about your cousin; I guess it goes to show that everyone handles things a little bit differently.

Another thought that is provoked concerning things being better if my BPDex were dead; I feel as though she might finally be able to rest.  A few posters thus far have expressed that they DO NOT think it easier if their BPDex's were dead because they are holding out that one day they will be better.  Sadly I cannot say I hold out the same hope for my BPDex.  The other day I was on facebook (strike 1) and got curious (strike 2) and looked up my replacement and then HIS replacement (strike 3, I'm OUT!).  My BPDex is since on to AT LEAST guy #3 after me since we split 9 months ago.  Both guy 1 and guy 2's facebooks have been scrubbed clean of my BPDex- no photos remain (and they used to be there).  It was some consolation, as it said to me that these guys had similarly been burnt the way that I was (I KNOW this for a fact), but more importantly that they FELT the same way that I did. Getting rid of photos/possessions is one of the first things I did. Seeing this though it struck me that I don't think my BPDex truly has any hope.  That makes me sad... . I see the absence of her father in her life as having a direct correlation to her promiscuity, and the idea of someone reaching out to try and get the love they never received as a child by sleeping with anyone and everyone is just pretty sad to me.  I guess overall, I imagine that if my BPDex had died, it would be the end of the saga so to speak, and things, and people, could finally start to fully come to terms with what happened and heal.

To those apologizing for hijacking; don't.  The idea of this thread, and really any thread on this board I believe, is to provoke thought and get people to consider things that have not before, or perhaps haven't wanted to.  So long as people are finding that the content speaks to them in some way, it is a success.

[Pearl55]

NO... .

NOT AT ALL

The only Joy I get at the moment is knowing that she's alive and attending her therapy sessions.  And I in turn will attend mine. 

I may severely dislike her, but I'd hate myself more if she were dead.  She's a good person, she's just seriously ill and what happened to her as a child I wouldn't wish on Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, you name them. 

It would be easier for me if she gets better, her psychiatrists do their best and one day she says sorry and gives me a hug.  I'm told it's a decade away x

Good people never abuse and hurt people! The women you love doesn't EXCIST. 

[Pearl55]

I meant "exist"

[Perfidy]

Octoberfest, I made a one year commitment to my self to allow for grieving and in this time I'm actively seeking knowledge of my self. Learning to place value on my self. I want to value me self more than anybody or anything else. Healing.