Court Tomorrow

[raytamtay3]

Tomorrow is our court date. DD called me the other day clarifying what she said the Drug and Alcohol evaluator said when she went to see her. She is recommending partial placement. DD said she wants to do that rather than an RTC. Said she's be more willing to participate in that. Asked if I will ask the judge to let her do that. In an effort to keep her regulated, I said we'll see how it goes. And that I was open to it. But in reality, I'm not. She needs more intensive treatment. So tomorrow is going to be hard. I already am having tremendous anxiety about it.

I didn't know what to say when she said this to me. She thinks she's going to be coming home tomorrow. She keeps saying how she wants to come home. That she is going to do whatever it takes to not have to ever go back. But I know it would be shortlived no matter how much I would love to believe that she would get better with a partial placement. :'(

UPDATED: Just heard from DD's probation officer. She will in fact be going to an RTC. She believes the drug and alchol evaluator just means she feels DD doesn't need a RTC for drug treatment. But irregardless of that, she will be going to one as she's been approved.

I have a listing that her CMO just provided me, so I'm doing research. I've seen only one that specializes in CBT, but none DBT.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[jellibeans]

I do think that CBT and DBT are very similar. I hope you can find a good place... . hoping for the the best!

[raytamtay3]

Any advice on how to break the news to DD that I am proceeding with pushing for RTC?

[jellibeans]

I would let it unfold naturally in court... . I do not think you need to give her a heads up. Let the authorities handle this and let the process begin. Do not feel guilt over this... . she needs help and you are doing the best for her... Believe that!

[Eclaire5]

Just tell her that that's where she is supposed to go according to the probation officer and you are just following recommendations. Try not to go into detailed explanations because our children usually do not understand them anyways. Empathize with her feelings of frustration and so forth, but set a clear boundary with her. It's a good thing that her probation officer is getting her to go to RTC, hopefully she can benefit from it. Good luck tomorrow and keep us posted.

[raytamtay3]

im sitting outside of mcdonalds with my dh awaiting a reconvenement if court as it was ordered that sge go to rtc, but since we still have interviews. She could either come home ir go to a shelter. I recommended a shelter and dd begged me to let her come home. So we await our 2:30 reconvenemebt to see if a bed is available at the shelter. If it were t fir dh veing here ro keep me on track, shed b coming home until then. But he reminded me that sge had her last hoorah by taking off for four days and alledgedly getting raped thinking she was going away anyway, so what would she do now? He is right. But damn is this hard!

[peaceplease]

raytamtay3,

I am sorry this is so tough. I am glad that you have dh with you.  It sure helps to have some one to lean on when we feel weak.  I would worry about your dd being an elopement risk.

DBT  is CBT combined with mindfulness therapy. 

I hope you find a place that meets all your needs.

peaceplease

[Pizzas123]

I have read your story with DD, and can identify completely.  I just want you to know I feel for you and hope things will get better.  Although my daughter, who is 30, has many problems, being incarcerated so far, is not one of them.  But I absolutely relate to the lies, manipulation and guilt that a BPD sufferer deals out to family, and in our family, especially ME... . I have been the recipient of that for years.  Like you, I am a wimp and have feelings of panic and guilt when my duaghter gets angry and accusatory.  Why, I don't know, just my makeup I guess. I just fold.  And as in your family, I feel our son has been so cheated because of trying to deal with our daughter, from one situation to another.

Anyway, please remeber you are in my thoughts and that, like others here, know what you are going through, and wish you strength in the days to come.

Warm hugs 

[jellibeans]

stay strong... . hang in there... . believe this is the best for your dd because it is... .

[raytamtay3]

My apologies for the many typos in my last post. I was typing from my phone and you know how that is!

So long story short. There was a bed available at a shelter and we were to transport her. I thought for sure it was going to be a nightmare but as it turns out, she was so happy to be out of the detention center that she was actually very pleasant. We stopped at Taco Bell so she could get something to eat on our way to the shelter and not once did she complain about going. Not once did she complain about having to go to an RTC. And she was very affectionate with me. Touching my hair constantly saying how she wants her blond hair back (she died it this horrible red and it’s all streaky and just does not look good).

The shelter is very nice. It looks like a huge house and it’s in a very nice neighborhood. So I felt ok leaving her there. So we dropped her off around 5:00 PM and I went back home to grab some clothes and toiletries for her and returned around 7. Thankfully it’s only 10 minutes away from my house too.

When I got back she was still in orientation completing paperwork in the office. I dropped off her things and she hugged me long… No tears just a nice long hug.

I always question if she is sincere or if this is continued manipulation to see if good ol’ mom will cave again or something. I hate thinking that. But she went from calling me names, asking me what kind of mother was I to put her daughter away, telling me if I sent her to an RTC she would never speak to me again, to being calm, loving and affectionate.

After so many times letting my guard down only to have her squash it again, it’s still up. But I still like to believe that she will get better and that she now gets it. We can only hope – right?

Anyway, we expect to have some interviews for RTCs set up either this week or next. I will be responsible for the transport.

[jellibeans]

Fantastic news... . I hope you find a good RTC for her... . I think this is rather common for these kids... . they know deep down they need help and I think they keep pushing until they get it... . very happy for you and your dd... . keep us posted

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[raytamtay3]

It was shortlived.  She just called me crying saying she doesn't want to go for 6 months to a year. She thought it was three months on. I honestly don't know what the protocol is. I'm back to being a terrible mother.

I dropped her off a bunch of stuff last night, but of course today she's asking for additional things. But I've had a dinner planned with my BFF for over a week and am not canceling it. I told her I would tomorrow. Of course that didn't fly with her. But she has to learn that I'm no gonna say how high when she asks me to jump! Those days are ova!

[raytamtay3]

She keeps saying how she's not that bad. That she won't participate if she needs to go to RTC. That she'd only participate if she did partial in-patient as she knows what will and will not work for her. I'm so exhausted over all of this. I want to cancel my dinner date and just go home and sleep,but I know I need to get out.

[MammaMia]

Rayram

Tell your dd that you have no control over her RTC and perhaps if she works hard at it and does well, it may not be as long as she thinks.

Give her hope but also let her know she is the only one who can make things better and you will have

zero input into the process.

[jellibeans]

Oh Ray

Seems like you have a little negotiator that is hoping to gain some power. I would tell her it is up to her when she will come home. She seems smart enough to get the picture and I would not worry.

[Being Mindful]

Ray, A lot of RTF's have transports available. Check into it if you can.

[raytamtay3]

Like people use to tell my ex, he was meant to be a lawyer is what I tell my DD she should be! Yes, she is a huge negociater.  And hopefully it will serve her well in the future. I told her she needs to get herself on a debate club!

She tried to call me when I was at the gym. I saw a missed call from her. So lets see what her mood is today when we connect.

[raytamtay3]

Ray, A lot of RTF's have transports available. Check into it if you can.

Apparently I have to take her on the interviews.  These people don't understand how DD gets. She grabbed the wheel of my car before when she was mad at me. With my 6 year old son in the backseat! Kicked the back of my seat riding home from detention!

[jellibeans]

Maybe you could stress the point that you do not feel safe with dd and that it would be better if a nutural person transported her. I am not sure why there needs to be an interview to begin with... .

Just wanted you to know my dd also likes to try to jump out of the car when moving... . she has a great flight of fight impulse. Nothing like trying to drive and hold on to your daughter at the same time... . I really see this as a safety issue.

[crumblingdad]

I would  consider letting them know you don't think it's safe for you to take her to the interviews.  If you can avoid that it may not be a bad idea.  It is far too unpredictable right now whether she will be regulated or not through those but hard to say.

Having gone through this myself the cycling was very quick when we were getting her into RTC and one minute she'd be regulated and almost seeming to want to go to RTC the next minute she was insisting I return her to detention center because she'd rather be dead or in juvenile hall then in RTC.

Do not cancel plans you are making that allow you some time to yourself through this process.  You need that.

[raytamtay3]

Good morning all. TGIF!  I did reach out to her CMO about preferring they take her to these interviews.  Maybe I could meet them there or something because I do want to see these places.

DD called me on the way home from work last night asking if I was dropping off the rest of her things.  The protocol at the shelter is 24 hour notice for visits as well as dropping things off. She was NOT happy about this saying she wasted a call on me thinking I'd be able to drop things off. Nice hugh? I know, I know... . I shouldn't let her words bother me because she is understandbly upset about being there.

I am going to visit her tomorrow around noon and the visits are only for a 1/2 hr. on site until she reaches a level of good behaviour which her casworker said is typically 72 hours.

DD was a little happy because they give out these fake dollars that can be used to purchase things in a store they have on site and DD said she's already up to $30 for doing extra chores and is going to purchase an IPOD with it. She said she wants to stay there for the three months (even though she recently learned the RTC could be anywhere from 6 - 12 months). I told her that isn't what the shelter does. She likes that a local WAWA donates food to the shelter, so she's been having breakfast sandwhiches every morning. And of course the food there is a hell of a lot better than the detention center.

I'm a bit miffed at her CMO b/t/w. She is pushing this one non-profit RTC that is affiliated with their organization and close to home. I told her straight out (I'm threw being polite) that my DD needs to go someplace that specializes in her disorder because if she does not, it could do more harm than good, and be a waste of time. She said ok. But let's see. I am NOT  taking no for an answer.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[raytamtay3]

Someone posted a listing of traits of a sociopath, and I'm now beginning to wonder if my DD doesn't have BPD afterall as she closely resembles the traits of a sociopath!

Profile of the Sociopath

•Glibness and Superficial Charm


•Manipulative and Conning

They never recognize the rights of others and see their self-serving behaviors as permissible. They appear to be charming, yet are covertly hostile and domineering, seeing their victim as merely an instrument to be used. They may dominate and humiliate their victims.


•Grandiose Sense of Self

Feels entitled to certain things as "their right."


•Pathological Lying

Has no problem lying coolly and easily and it is almost impossible for them to be truthful on a consistent basis. Can create, and get caught up in, a complex belief about their own powers and abilities. Extremely convincing and even able to pass lie detector tests.


•Lack of Remorse, Shame or Guilt

A deep seated rage, which is split off and repressed, is at their core. Does not see others around them as people, but only as targets and opportunities. Instead of friends, they have victims and accomplices who end up as victims. The end always justifies the means and they let nothing stand in their way.


•Shallow Emotions

When they show what seems to be warmth, joy, love and compassion it is more feigned than experienced and serves an ulterior motive. Outraged by insignificant matters, yet remaining unmoved and cold by what would upset a normal person. Since they are not genuine, neither are their promises.


•Incapacity for Love


•Need for Stimulation

Living on the edge. Verbal outbursts and physical punishments are normal. Promiscuity and gambling are common.


•Callousness/Lack of Empathy

Unable to empathize with the pain of their victims, having only contempt for others' feelings of distress and readily taking advantage of them.


•Poor Behavioral Controls/Impulsive Nature

Rage and abuse, alternating with small expressions of love and approval produce an addictive cycle for abuser and abused, as well as creating hopelessness in the victim. Believe they are all-powerful, all-knowing, entitled to every wish, no sense of personal boundaries, no concern for their impact on others.


•Early Behavior Problems/Juvenile Delinquency

Usually has a history of behavioral and academic difficulties, yet "gets by" by conning others. Problems in making and keeping friends; aberrant behaviors such as cruelty to people or animals, stealing, etc.


•Irresponsibility/Unreliability

Not concerned about wrecking others' lives and dreams. Oblivious or indifferent to the devastation they cause. Does not accept blame themselves, but blames others, even for acts they obviously committed.


•Promiscuous Sexual Behavior/Infidelity

Promiscuity, child sexual abuse, rape and sexual acting out of all sorts.


•Lack of Realistic Life Plan/Parasitic Lifestyle

Tends to move around a lot or makes all encompassing promises for the future, poor work ethic but exploits others effectively.


•Criminal or Entrepreneurial Versatility

Changes their image as needed to avoid prosecution. Changes life story readily.

[mggt]

god help us all those words are too familiar and scares me to death 

[jellibeans]

Ray... . stand your ground on getting your dd the best RTC and one the is familiar with BPD.

I do think the sociopath list is interesting... . I wonder if BPD has the possibility of turning into that... . they seem pretty similiar... . pretty scary too

[lever.]

Wow, that sociopath list makes scary reading but it sounds as if the underlying pathology is different. The sociopath sounds very calculating whereas BPD is driven by unregulated emotion. I can see that my DD is quite fragile underneath and is trying to protect herself with all the difficult behaviour. Sometimes the actual behaviour can look the same though. I don't think people with BPD deliberately set out to use others, they just get so disregulated that they can't see the other person.

Have been following your thread. DO insist on a specialist RTC and( as one who has also had her hair pulled when driving and experienced DD jumping out of the car on a busy road) try to insist on transport being provided .

[raytamtay3]

Joy! My DD's CMO worker just called me and we have a interview scheduled for next Wednesday at the place I'm most interested in based off of what they post on their site anyway. And she is driving us! This is what they offer:

NJ Community Alternative Homes

VisionQuest’s Community Alternative Homes, located in Southern New Jersey, provide residential treatment services to both male and female youth between the ages of 13 and 18 in a small homelike suburban setting. Regular programming includes individual therapy with licensed therapists, CBT based psycho-educational group therapy, substance abuse psycho-educational groups, family therapy, evidence-based Aggression Replacement Training (ART) and evidence-supported Sanctuary Model for Trauma Informed Care®. Based upon the individual needs of the youth, education is provided at the local public school, local college/university, local vocational training facility, or at the VisionQuest Pathfinders location by the Burlington County Special Services School District. Youth may also participate in equine and adventure experiences that include, but are not limited to, equine care, round pen training, trail rides, hiking trips, rock climbing, and biking.

The Community Alternative Homes work to create well-balanced youth.  :)ifferent program components work to address personal setbacks, family dysfunction and communication, and strengthen each youth’s personal vision for his or her life.  The ultimate goal is to set each youth on a more positive path for his or her future.

The NJ Community Alternative Homes are Joint Commission accredited Behavioral Health programs.

I also found their program is a 9 month to 12 month program. Thank God the CMO is driving because when DD hears that, all hell is gonna break loose!  Has anyone ever heard of Vision Quest in Burlington County, NJ?

[raytamtay3]

Hey, what are some of the questions to ask?

[raytamtay3]

WOW it's for real... . it's happening... . I'm relieved and sad at the same time.  :'(

[peaceplease]

raytamtay,

I hope someone will be by to help with what questions to ask.  I know lbjtlnx had some great thread when her dd was at rtc.  I believe that she had a thread here on questions to ask.

And, it is bittersweet!  

peaceplease

[MammaMia]

Raytam

You CAN do this.  It is what is best for your dd.  Be strong.