My Plan Not Seeing her for a Month Unrealistic

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

We have to be at the dentist together next week for S4's partially sedated dental work. I't for our son. I don't know how it will be spending two hours in teh waiting room with her. Maybe I'll go get breakfast by myself.

Last night, which was my night to pick up the kids, she was waiting at her mom's house. She knows I don't like to see her, but said the kids didn't want her to leave. That is probably true. S4 was sitting on my lap and she asked him to tell me what they talked about earlier (to call my mom for her birthday). She asked him a few times and then reached over to touch him to get his attention, but let her hand rest on my leg. To my credit, I didn't flinch, but I don't want her touching me.

I may be making too much of it, but part of this may be to see me at least once a week. I know she wants to develop a good friendship, but I just can't do it at this point. She's pushing boundaries in a subtle manner, however. At least I'll be out of town this weekend, so if she brings the kids to church I won't see her.

I know... . BPD, or whatever. It still unnerves me that she can contain two different people inside of her and switch them back and forth depending upon whom she is with. Otherwise, I'm doing ok. The crying's been over for two months. The feelings of being overwhelemed by what I will have to deal with for the next 17-20 years are burdening me.

Appointment with the T today. I'll talk about issues related to the kids for half the time (since he also is a child therapist) related to attachments and co-parenting. Hopefully talk about me, since throughout this whole process, he's been more of a support for me than anything. I'm just so tired of talking about her. I feel my wounds that were always there have come to the surface again. Felt very depressed driving around town yesterday, like I'm as she said, a "failure." Worthless, Not worth being loved unless I'm "rescuing" someone. So how to change that? Hermit mode was my way of dealing with it for years. Now I feel like a dog returning to its vomit 

[Turkish]

We have to be at the dentist together next week for S4's partially sedated dental work. I't for our son. I don't know how it will be spending two hours in teh waiting room with her. Maybe I'll go get breakfast by myself.

Last night, which was my night to pick up the kids, she was waiting at her mom's house. She knows I don't like to see her, but said the kids didn't want her to leave. That is probably true. S4 was sitting on my lap and she asked him to tell me what they talked about earlier (to call my mom for her birthday). She asked him a few times and then reached over to touch him to get his attention, but let her hand rest on my leg. To my credit, I didn't flinch, but I don't want her touching me.

I may be making too much of it, but part of this may be to see me at least once a week. I know she wants to develop a good friendship, but I just can't do it at this point. She's pushing boundaries in a subtle manner, however. At least I'll be out of town this weekend, so if she brings the kids to church I won't see her.

I know... . BPD, or whatever. It still unnerves me that she can contain two different people inside of her and switch them back and forth depending upon whom she is with. Otherwise, I'm doing ok. The crying's been over for two months. The feelings of being overwhelemed by what I will have to deal with for the next 17-20 years are burdening me.

Appointment with the T today. I'll talk about issues related to the kids for half the time (since he also is a child therapist) related to attachments and co-parenting. Hopefully talk about me, since throughout this whole process, he's been more of a support for me than anything. I'm just so tired of talking about her. I feel my wounds that were always there have come to the surface again. Felt very depressed driving around town yesterday, like I'm as she said, a "failure." Worthless, Not worth being loved unless I'm "rescuing" someone. So how to change that? Hermit mode was my way of dealing with it for years. Now I feel like a dog returning to its vomit 

[seeking balance]

She asked him a few times and then reached over to touch him to get his attention, but let her hand rest on my leg. To my credit, I didn't flinch, but I don't want her touching me.

Why are you saying "to my credit"?

Turkish - you have a right to have boundaries ... . healthy people with self worth have boundaries - physical and emotional.

You are not a victim, why are you allowing her to violate you?

[Turkish]

She asked him a few times and then reached over to touch him to get his attention, but let her hand rest on my leg. To my credit, I didn't flinch, but I don't want her touching me.

Why are you saying "to my credit"?

Turkish - you have a right to have boundaries ... . healthy people with self worth have boundaries - physical and emotional.

You are not a victim, why are you allowing her to violate you?

Maybe it would have been weird in front of my son to react strongly (and her mother, though her mother would sympathize with me. Even not speaking English, she picks up on things). So I should just flat out say, "I would like for you to not touch me."

I kept that up for months, where even "broken up" I could have probably at least gotten hugs out of her. She understood it without me having to say anything.

[seeking balance]

Turkish - is this a boundary of yours or not?  If it is, then it is something you can work on with your T.

Maybe it would have been weird in front of my son to react strongly (and her mother, though her mother would sympathize with me. Even not speaking English, she picks up on things). So I should just flat out say, "I would like for you to not touch me."

DEARMAN technique to set a boundary.  It didn't have to be in front of your son, but by not saying it - you are allowing it.

I kept that up for months, where even "broken up" I could have probably at least gotten hugs out of her. She understood it without me having to say anything.

Again, you posted here about her touching you as if you didn't like it - perhaps I am reading your post completely wrong - maybe it does not bother you and you are simply posting the facts of your encounter.

The title is about not seeing her for a month - yeah, she is the mother of your kids, probably not likely.

Appointment with the T today. I'll talk about issues related to the kids for half the time (since he also is a child therapist) related to attachments and co-parenting. Hopefully talk about me, since throughout this whole process, he's been more of a support for me than anything. I'm just so tired of talking about her. I feel my wounds that were always there have come to the surface again. Felt very depressed driving around town yesterday, like I'm as she said, a "failure." Worthless, Not worth being loved unless I'm "rescuing" someone. So how to change that? Hermit mode was my way of dealing with it for years. Now I feel like a dog returning to its vomit 

You are a good guy & dad - rebuilding your own worth is really important... . it it good to talk about your feelings with the T and not about her.  YOU are your priority, not her.

Being depressed is ok, it is part of grief... . it sucks in it ... . but it really is part of the process.  Change will come in focusing on that "failure" feeling - why you have it and healing it yourself.

I am tough on you with boundaries because you are worth it - boundaries are what healthy people have - setting them is hard if we are tying our worth to whether someone likes us or not. 

You deserve respect Turkish - start with showing it to yourself with boundaries with your stbexw.

[Turkish]

Thank you sb. Yes, I do not like her touching me. I find it nothing short of disgusting. If she had left me "normally" I wouldn't have a problem with it, even if she were with a new guy. Not my business anymore. I have never flat out said for her to not touch me though. A brush of fingers while passing D1 back and forth isn't avoidable, but acting like we still have some sort of intimacy does. Back in October, when I went with her to help buy her new car, she leaned on me like we were a couple while we were looking at paperwork, in a way you wouldn't do with just a friend. It bothered and confused me then. That seems like a lifetime ago. I'm stronger now. I will read up on DEARMAN... .

[seeking balance]

I have never flat out said for her to not touch me though.DEARMAN... .

I would have hated my ex touching me - it would feel very violating after having been cheated on.

Are you afraid of confronting her with your boundaries?

[myself]

Not worth being loved unless I'm "rescuing" someone. So how to change that?

Dealing with rejection, even from someone who is disordered, has been such a hard thing for so many of us. You know inside yourself that you are worthy, that you are lovable. You're already doing so, but continue turning those 'rescuing' feelings/actions towards yourself. How to do that, and what you need, is up to you. Which would include setting boundaries with your ex and sticking to them. She may be acting like two different people but you don't have to. Be yourself. Solid and strong. You don't want her touching you, say so. It doesn't have to be in front of the kids or family. If somebody was touching your kids when you didn't feel it was appropriate, you'd be there in a second to put a stop to it, wouldn't you? Stand up for yourself, even for the little things (not that this is little). Don't worry so much about how it looks to others. What's going to happen, they might see the truth? This is your life. The more you 'save' yourself now, the more your self respect will see the light of day. You're more than worth it, Turkish. It sets a good example for your kids and their boundaries, too.

[Turkish]

I have never flat out said for her to not touch me though.DEARMAN... .

I would have hated my ex touching me - it would feel very violating after having been cheated on.

Are you afraid of confronting her with your boundaries?

There might be some of that. I'm pretty much detached from being intimidated by my little waif queen, but after 6 years of enabling the behavior, I know there are lingering issues on my side dealing with it.

myself: saving myself. I like that. In these r/s, it's like a lot of us are trying to save our own inner child. Time to start projecting outward and focusing inward.

[seeking balance]

There might be some of that. I'm pretty much detached from being intimidated by my little waif queen, but after 6 years of enabling the behavior, I know there are lingering issues on my side dealing with it.

Turkish, if you were detached - you could set boundaries.  Before we can change, we really do have to acknowledge where we really are - this is the first step in the stages of detachment.  What are you feeling that keeps you stuck reacting to her rather than taking care of yourself?  If not here, I do hope you open up with your T about this... . for you and your kids sake.

[Turkish]

There might be some of that. I'm pretty much detached from being intimidated by my little waif queen, but after 6 years of enabling the behavior, I know there are lingering issues on my side dealing with it.

Turkish, if you were detached - you could set boundaries.  Before we can change, we really do have to acknowledge where we really are - this is the first step in the stages of detachment.  What are you feeling that keeps you stuck reacting to her rather than taking care of yourself?  If not here, I do hope you open up with your T about this... . for you and your kids sake.

1. Fear of an angry woman, in combination with the possibility that she could make my life very difficult if she chose to (witness the horror stories on the legal and parenting boards)

2. The fact that our kids, esepcially S4, are taking this well thus far due to the lack of conflict between us... . which I feel is my side to keep since she isn't attacking me. An argument takes two people, and though she did many unacceptable things during the months of detachment, the few arguments we had was me calling the more egregious ones out.

3. My own somewhat avoidant attachment style, in which if it weren't for the kids, I'd go NC no problem and move on. Of course, if it weren't for the kids, we wouldn't have made it past Year 1. That was the first and only recycle. So I realize that is an unhealthy part of me (letting go cold turkey isn't necessarily "dealing" with things, though in some cases of serious abuse, that's what people need to do).

4. I hate drama. Being attracted to dramatic women, that is why I was a hermit for so long. Long time friends view me stable as a rock in my own orbit, but I was attracted to the drama of others sometimes, even while hating it. I tried not to engage, but to reduce it. The peacemaker.

[seeking balance]

Turkish,

I want to preface this with saying that none of us are perfect, we all do the best we can with what he know and the tools we have.  When we know better we can choose to do better.  I have no doubt you are doing the best you can with what you know.

1. Fear of an angry woman, in combination with the possibility that she could make my life very difficult if she chose to (witness the horror stories on the legal and parenting boards)

yeah, there are horror stories - but those are not YOUR stories.  To be fair, she has signed off easily on everything you have offered, right?

I don't recall her even getting an attorney - but I could be mistaken on that, please correct me if I am.

Do you not think your life is difficult now - emotionally?  Based on your posting history, it looks like you have had some difficulty.

2. The fact that our kids, esepcially S4, are taking this well thus far due to the lack of conflict between us... . which I feel is my side to keep since she isn't attacking me. An argument takes two people, and though she did many unacceptable things during the months of detachment, the few arguments we had was me calling the more egregious ones out.

What is your definition of detachment here - perhaps we are not using the same terms the same way?

3. My own somewhat avoidant attachment style, in which if it weren't for the kids, I'd go NC no problem and move on. Of course, if it weren't for the kids, we wouldn't have made it past Year 1. That was the first and only recycle. So I realize that is an unhealthy part of me (letting go cold turkey isn't necessarily "dealing" with things, though in some cases of serious abuse, that's what people need to do).

NC is NOT detachment - It is simply a tool. 

Boundaries is balance (not black/white thinking).  How can we help you with this?

4. I hate drama. Being attracted to dramatic women, that is why I was a hermit for so long. Long time friends view me stable as a rock in my own orbit, but I was attracted to the drama of others sometimes, even while hating it. I tried not to engage, but to reduce it. The peacemaker.

That is ok, peacemaker is good.  This is not the same as boundaries.

Honestly, are you hoping if you are nice enough once she runs the course with the new guy she will come back to you?  It's ok if this is what you want, just trying to figure out why 2+2 is not equaling 4 ... . there seems to be a disconnect with what you are saying here and how you are acting with her regarding boundaries.

I believe you mean what you say on the boards, but maybe when you are with her - you still have wishful thinking of a future that is keeping you from enforcing boundaries that might help your own mental health?

[myself]

Turkish, it's been really hard for me to set boundaries. I've dealt with it in multiple T sessions, and it's helped me get much better at it. I knew when I set boundaries, while still in the r/s, it would lead to resistance, and very possibly the end of the r/s (it did). I was scared of that, and did not want to scare her away. I was the peacemaker, too. But I set boundaries and stuck to them. I told the truth instead of keeping silent. I found I had to bring peace into my own life first, and then it spreads out to those close to me and so on. You are a stand up guy, want to do right by your kids, be respectful with your ex. All of those are admirable. You've said your ex is a waif, so why are you worried she'll get too angry? And if she does, it will be because she's not getting her way (crossing your boundaries), which she should have foreseen while making big decisions like running off with someone else, hurting her loved ones in the process. Sorry, but it sounds like you're making excuses for her, taking on too much of this, when yes you do need to look after yourself (and kids) first. Let your ex see what life is really like now. You, too. We're pulling for you, with much respect.

[coolioqq]

Boundaries are a necessary part in the process of detachment. I wouldn't feel bad enforcing them regardless of what others say. I think it's very noble that you try not to react in front of the kids. But there are other opportunities to make it clear that you don't want that. If you are afraid of her taking action, which is I am sure completely understandable to most of us here as we know who we are dealing with, then simple indifference to her behavior may be the key. You know her best, so I am sure you will find a way to do that. According to your story here, you were a good and loyal husband while the marriage lasted. If she chose to go the other way, I think you have a choice to do the same. That's up to you, of course.

Try not to "beat yourself up" over whatever leftover feelings you have for her. It is what it is for now, and it's best to accept it and go from there than go into denial. Denial is the cornerstone of BPD, so I'm pretty sure we're normal for acknowledging our feelings . It's nothing to be ashamed about. At least, I think so in my case. Most of us here are dealing with the same thing. It will take time especially considering the length of your marriage and the fact that you have children with her.

From your recent posts, you often seem to refer to her beauty, and the impact of it on you. It's a normal thing, of course, since that seems one of the things you loved about her. But it may be a trigger for you as well. What I learned in my case is to distinguish between beautiful and pretty. Prettiness is just a part (and not at all necessary) of beauty. Beauty as a word, at least to me, encompasses the entire person, inside and out. If you try to think of her as pretty rather than beautiful, it may eventually wear off... . Maybe that's something to talk about with the T.

As far as that goes, take my example. My exBPDgf was not that pretty, which is atypical of pwBPD, as I read her. Or maybe that's just in our minds . Although my self-esteem is on the lower end when it comes to appearance (long story), and that is something I seriously need to work on, I can in all honesty say that I fare quite better among men than she does among women in terms of appearance. She admitted that she was very superficial but I "passed." (talk about romantic things to say to a partner... . ) It was all red flags, but I was already falling in love so I ignored all that. And I thought of her as beautiful because I was fooled about her as a person... . That whole mindset of mine is what keeps me awake at night now, generates all this longing for her and a whole lot of garbage going on in my brain. My self-worth is completely non-existent at this point, and all I think about is her. But, I try not to beat myself up over it as the feelings towards her is what makes me a better human being than her. I wouldn't trade places with her even though I am pretty sure that I am now far emptier than she ever was even with her BPD. I can take it though, she would never be able to take that kind of emotional pain. That's why they shut off their emotions; it takes real strength to grieve, something that they simply don't have. I exercise like crazy, endorphin kicks in and numbs the physical pain from all the soreness. But, emotional pain stays and even intensifies. So, I can be pretty sure that I'm a non (little jokes don't hurt).

Even with all of the love on my part (let's not fool ourselves here, love does not fade away so fast in a normal brain), I broke it off "cold turkey" -> complete NC. No explanations, nada... . No answers to her apologetic communication (remember: actions must match words, and I read her well)... . It was a way for me to stand up for myself, and keep the only drop of my self-worth left. I walked away - that was my boundary. I do understand that your situation is entirely different because of your kids though.

It's difficult, I feel as a real failure as this was the first time in my life that I thought: this is it. I am severely traumatized after what happened, but I made a choice. We often think that strength leaves no space for doubt, sadness, longing and so on. But, I don't think it's about that at all. Strength to me simply means: "ok, this punched me in the face, in the guts, whatever... . But it didn't kill me. It'll hurt now, tomorrow and who knows for how long. But it'll pass. And I'll use the time to learn how to dodge a punch next time. Even if I don't succeed, it'll hurt less because I gained some strength." It may sound cheesy but I think that's all it's about.

[Turkish]

Boundaries are a necessary part in the process of detachment. I wouldn't feel bad enforcing them regardless of what others say. I think it's very noble that you try not to react in front of the kids. But there are other opportunities to make it clear that you don't want that. If you are afraid of her taking action, which is I am sure completely understandable to most of us here as we know who we are dealing with, then simple indifference to her behavior may be the key. You know her best, so I am sure you will find a way to do that. According to your story here, you were a good and loyal husband while the marriage lasted. If she chose to go the other way, I think you have a choice to do the same. That's up to you, of course.

Thanks for you support and your opinions on beauty. My "wanting" her part is definitely less than 10% to sometimes I feel completely disgusted by what she chose to do, especially neglecting the children to pursue and adolescent relationship. In short, she wanted to keep that teen romance alive. I did fail somewhat in part, but our kids were 1 and 3. The focus should be on them now. I stood up for them and me, she wanted to go out more, so I let her (mistake... . forced abandonment). She got angrier, demanding I do something for the r/s, though not specifying, of course. I shut down due to my own FOO issues. I had to get up at 6AM for the better part of a year to take care of D1 while she slept in for hours every weekend. So of course I was tired and tried to get into bed by 11 during the week. I didn't want to cuddle on the couch until midnight during the week. I resented her more, didn't specify, which was my fault. She searched for (though she denied it even to herself in her journal) and found someone else. A young narc boy olike her previous boyfriends. She even told me the time she met him and I said exchanging numbers was a bad idea, even for "work purposes." At that point, I left her to make adult decisions and she made decisions befitting and adolescent, especially with the kids. Her father (me) abandoned her with no guidance. So it went downhill fast. Add to the other behaviors of my Waif Queen, a trigger of her father's affair (one of many over the years) coming to light. And it was done. She'd probably still be here if I hadn't pushed her out though it still took months. I refused to have her mirror her parents' dysfunctional r/s in front of our children. I did the thing she always resented her mother for not doing, I left/kicked her out, though she had, of course, already left in her mind and heart. I did all the wrong things when it comes to a pwBPD. The past is the past. Now I am free... . in a sense. And will be freer as the years go by.

[Turkish]

SB- no, I do not want her back. That part is very small. She showed me who she really is undereath through all of this. She said she needed someone to lead her and guide her. I'm tired of being a dad to D32. That's someone else's job now, even if a young kid immature for his age (which explains her adolescent behaviors... . mirroring). I'll have to think about the other things you said for a bit.

myself: she is a Hermit when in between relationships (it's even her handle on some social media), a Waif to attach, and more of a Waif Queen with periodic Witch (she uses the word with a B) after the attachment is secure, as secure as an attachment could be to a pwBPD.

Session with the T today: very good. He validated my righteous anger. He likes role playing, so he stopped me and said," this is what I would say," and then launched into calling her out on what she is doing, because I have been pretty non judgmental about all of this. He said don't tell her things that she won't hear, but you have a right to "speak the truth" about my opinions on her unwise decision to introduce the kids to her boyfriend so soon, and that I was not happy to have someone of low character be in my kids' lives. That she is again thinking of herself and not how the kids will view things. Give it a year, or three or five (I think he was exaggerating a bit) until you make sure that this person is committed to you and to the children, rather than carrying on an adolescent relationship and bringing the kids into the mix. I wish I could have recorded it, as it was very good, far better than I wrote here. It might fall on deaf ears, but at least she would know that I know, and am watching... .

Back in November, when she stayed out until 4AM one weeknight, I called her on it two days later. I was expecting defensiveness and anger, but she felt guilty, and told me, "I kind of thought that... . thank you, I needed to hear that," as if I were her father! I guess with no moral guidance growing up, she does need it. She didn't do the late night trysts again, but she just became more sneaky. I knew what was going on though.

I had to wait at her mom's house for her mom to get home with the kids. One of her brothers showed up. I don't see him much, but he is godfather to D1. We exchanged greetings, and then related to what S4 told me. He was very disappointed, of course, as he was the one time I talked to him about things back in November. I told him to keep an eye is S4 was saying anything odd, or out of the ordinary, but despite his sister's bad judgement, there was nothing any of us could do about it. He said, I know... . we'll just have to say how this plays out. Then the kids came back and we all played for a while.

I decided to spend the $ and see my T next week before I have to spend the morning with the kids' mother. I said there wouldn't be any more drama this weekend, since I pretty much caught him up on the last month, so I wanted to talk about myself for a change.

[Turkish]

I don't want to bore everybody by responding too much, but mt T also said it was acceptable to tell her one phone call per day. And to talk to her about breaking down on the phone because she can't rely on them for support; its her that needs to be strong and stable fir them. Little children shouldn't be burdened with taking care of the parent emotionally. I understood he was talking about emotional incest, which describes what happened to her in childhood. She's passing on the dysfunction she experienced in her childhhood so obviously, its sad. I doubt I will mine because the circumstances are so different from mine in all ways that I can't think of one commonality except me. Even so, I'm watching myself... .

I think she might take this conversation ok,.based upon a past conversation she had with S then 3 where I had to interject and explain things later. She asked me then to intervene if I witnessed her talking to him like that. It is frustrating having to reparent the mother of my children, but I'll try if I see it affecting the kids.

[seeking balance]

Session with the T today: very good. He validated my righteous anger. He likes role playing, so he stopped me and said," this is what I would say," and then launched into calling her out on what she is doing, because I have been pretty non judgmental about all of this. He said don't tell her things that she won't hear, but you have a right to "speak the truth" about my opinions on her unwise decision to introduce the kids to her boyfriend so soon, and that I was not happy to have someone of low character be in my kids' lives. That she is again thinking of herself and not how the kids will view things. Give it a year, or three or five (I think he was exaggerating a bit) until you make sure that this person is committed to you and to the children, rather than carrying on an adolescent relationship and bringing the kids into the mix. I wish I could have recorded it, as it was very good, far better than I wrote here. It might fall on deaf ears, but at least she would know that I know, and am watching... .

This boundary work is good and using DEARMAN is the best way to communicate boundaries with a pwBPD.  Can your T help you in terms of using the tools that have the best possible way of working?

Have you read High Conflict Couple - some of the skills there may be helpful.

Parenting with a BPD is highly challenging especially where you are right now in trying to detach and process your own grief.  You are in a very tough situation and it is wise of you to use your T weekly for a while - it helps you and your kiddos.

I don't think practicing DEARMAN on the leaving board is going to help you, I am not sure about the parenting board - but since you have a T and he likes role playing, sounds like a golden opportunity for practice setting boundaries in a way that may get heard.  Like he says, boundaries are for you - not really for her benefit.

Thanks for sharing,

SB

[Turkish]

Session with the T today: very good. He validated my righteous anger. He likes role playing, so he stopped me and said," this is what I would say," and then launched into calling her out on what she is doing, because I have been pretty non judgmental about all of this. He said don't tell her things that she won't hear, but you have a right to "speak the truth" about my opinions on her unwise decision to introduce the kids to her boyfriend so soon, and that I was not happy to have someone of low character be in my kids' lives. That she is again thinking of herself and not how the kids will view things. Give it a year, or three or five (I think he was exaggerating a bit) until you make sure that this person is committed to you and to the children, rather than carrying on an adolescent relationship and bringing the kids into the mix. I wish I could have recorded it, as it was very good, far better than I wrote here. It might fall on deaf ears, but at least she would know that I know, and am watching... .

This boundary work is good and using DEARMAN is the best way to communicate boundaries with a pwBPD.  Can your T help you in terms of using the tools that have the best possible way of working?

Have you read High Conflict Couple - some of the skills there may be helpful.

Parenting with a BPD is highly challenging especially where you are right now in trying to detach and process your own grief.  You are in a very tough situation and it is wise of you to use your T weekly for a while - it helps you and your kiddos.

I don't think practicing DEARMAN on the leaving board is going to help you, I am not sure about the parenting board - but since you have a T and he likes role playing, sounds like a golden opportunity for practice setting boundaries in a way that may get heard.  Like he says, boundaries are for you - not really for her benefit.

Thanks for sharing,

SB

Thanks SB. I think I will spend the money for a month or so. He has lots of good insight on the kids since he is a family T.

I saw her this morning when I dropped off the kids. Gave her some instructions on S4's medicine, then took off. Hardly looked at her. I was fine. Just an exchange. I got back in my car and she had sent me two texts to let her know she was 1 minute away, and then another to let me know she was there. I think she got to her mom's house not two minutes before we did, even though I said I'd be there within a 15 minute window and to not worry. Like she was afraid of getting me angry if she were late. *sigh* I wasn't even really angry this morning. Perhaps I'm accepting the reality of the situation now. The drama will come later, I'm sure :^)

[coolioqq]

I think she got to her mom's house not two minutes before we did, even though I said I'd be there within a 15 minute window and to not worry. Like she was afraid of getting me angry if she were late. *sigh* I wasn't even really angry this morning. Perhaps I'm accepting the reality of the situation now. The drama will come later, I'm sure :^)

That's the sad part: theiy don't seem capable to, even remotely, interpret other people's emotions. For example, when I daydreamed, she'd get very anxious (facial twitching, stuttering, slight shaking of hands, vibrating tone of voice) because who knows how she was interpreting that. From the look on her face, I'd say she saw it as if I was angry or devaluing her or scheming my leaving her. In reality, I was just hurt, depressed, overwhelmed and tired. They seem to project their own bad habits and behaviors onto other people, and then construct the future in their minds based on what they would do (scheming, lying, action on their fear). Professionals call this "excrementalizing."

At the core of it, they seem to completely lack the ability to put theimselves in their partner's shoes. I seriously feel bad that she felt that way, despite her actions to hurt me. But, how can one possibly make anything work with a person who will is not capable of addressing such serious things on the spot. Whenever I was more direct about those things and tried to talk them out and resolve them, it looked like she would pass out from anxiety. Her heart rate was over 200 (no exaggeration, it was probably north of that) while we were watching a movie. I don't even want to think what was happening with her body when she got really anxious.

Back to you, it really sounds like your T is helping you get a new perspective on what is going on. So it looks like it's paying off. Maybe ask her if you yourself could benefit from something like Mentalization. I am looking into that next after hearing that it's used to treat BPD but is useful for pretty much everyone. For myself, I feel like this would be a good time to get into the habit of assessing my own thoughts and impressions. According to the guy, we are all "excrementalizing" a lot, and that's where we get into trouble.

[Turkish]

Back to you, it really sounds like your T is helping you get a new perspective on what is going on. So it looks like it's paying off. Maybe ask her if you yourself could benefit from something like Mentalization. I am looking into that next after hearing that it's used to treat BPD but is useful for pretty much everyone. For myself, I feel like this would be a good time to get into the habit of assessing my own thoughts and impressions. According to the guy, we are all "excrementalizing" a lot, and that's where we get into trouble.

Excrementalizing... . never heard that one, but it says a lot with regard to projection! My T is a he. I purposely didn't choose a female T, depsite that I have always related well to women. He is a rare find. Avuncular. The wise male influence I never had in my life, having had to build that inner father parent on my own. I probably screwed up a little in that.

Yes, that lack of empathy thing... . hard to understand, unless viewed through the lens of thinking of them like a 3 year old. Mine doesn't read people well. She basically mistrusts everybody, distrusts the right people (something like paranoia), or trusts the wrong people due to her idealization.

[coolioqq]

Excrementalizing... . never heard that one, but it says a lot with regard to projection! My T is a he. I purposely didn't choose a female T, depsite that I have always related well to women. He is a rare find. Avuncular. The wise male influence I never had in my life, having had to build that inner father parent on my own. I probably screwed up a little in that.

Yes, that lack of empathy thing... . hard to understand, unless viewed through the lens of thinking of them like a 3 year old. Mine doesn't read people well. She basically mistrusts everybody, distrusts the right people (something like paranoia), or trusts the wrong people due to her idealization.

It's great that you relate well to women. I am sure it will be an important skill/quality once you feel ready to move on and find someone else.

Here's where I heard about mentalizing as a therapy. It's different from DBT as the focus is, as I understand, to help people distinguish between thoughts and feelingns and also help them accurately assess own and others' thoughts and behaviors. Excrementalizing is simply extreme overthinking and obsession over what this or that meant. My relationship was mired with that on her end. I kind of did the same thing by the end but never brought it up to her thinking that It'll just make things go bad. That's before she spilled the beans... .

www.namiathensohio.org/radio-program/borderline-personality-disorder/