My part

[Depression = 72% of members]

Time for some honesty.

The last time I was here, 3 years ago, I read all I could and as soon as I heard about "recycling" my heart leaped. You mean she could come back? You mean I could use the knowledge I've gained to actually make it work if she did?

I read about the symptoms, but the "unstable sense of self" is something that I didn't internalize until today. She was never who I thought she was. Not in all of this time. When she came back, she was different. It seemed as if her brightest parts had dulled. She wasn't quite who she was when we parted 7 months before. When she left this time, she wasn't the person I had known for years.

I am trying to accept the fact that my rescuing behaviors helped neither of us. All I'm doing by holding on, and still waiting for another recycle, is perpetuating her sickness. If I were to reenter a relationship with her it would be the same as before. If I'm honest, I want her back because I'd want the person that she is with me, not who she really is.

This selfish reason conflicts with the other more powerful motivation that I have. To keep her safe. I thought I could change the course of this thing, but all I've done is postpone her chances to figure it out for herself. I am really part of the problem. No matter what my intentions, no matter what I do, this will play out until she does something to change it.

I was wrong to use her feelings as leverage to change her into what I thought she should be. It was my well intended betrayal of her.

During this last breakup, when I asked her to ride out the devaluation and seek help, she asked, "What if I got better, and I still didn't love you?"

I told her that at least we would have tried, that we could try.

"I don't have the will," was her answer. 

And there it is. It's her choice. Loving this person means I have to let her go. Anything else would be a lie.

[restoredsight]

Time for some honesty.

The last time I was here, 3 years ago, I read all I could and as soon as I heard about "recycling" my heart leaped. You mean she could come back? You mean I could use the knowledge I've gained to actually make it work if she did?

I read about the symptoms, but the "unstable sense of self" is something that I didn't internalize until today. She was never who I thought she was. Not in all of this time. When she came back, she was different. It seemed as if her brightest parts had dulled. She wasn't quite who she was when we parted 7 months before. When she left this time, she wasn't the person I had known for years.

I am trying to accept the fact that my rescuing behaviors helped neither of us. All I'm doing by holding on, and still waiting for another recycle, is perpetuating her sickness. If I were to reenter a relationship with her it would be the same as before. If I'm honest, I want her back because I'd want the person that she is with me, not who she really is.

This selfish reason conflicts with the other more powerful motivation that I have. To keep her safe. I thought I could change the course of this thing, but all I've done is postpone her chances to figure it out for herself. I am really part of the problem. No matter what my intentions, no matter what I do, this will play out until she does something to change it.

I was wrong to use her feelings as leverage to change her into what I thought she should be. It was my well intended betrayal of her.

During this last breakup, when I asked her to ride out the devaluation and seek help, she asked, "What if I got better, and I still didn't love you?"

I told her that at least we would have tried, that we could try.

"I don't have the will," was her answer. 

And there it is. It's her choice. Loving this person means I have to let her go. Anything else would be a lie.

[Jb2003]

I thank you for this post chad sketch it really just unlocked something for me... . I have been hoping to be recycled because I do love her and want to be with her... . But I have to stop and really soul search about what my motivations are... . I know they are not healthy for me, but I too want to protect her and make her "safe" but could I be doing her the most harm... . WOW!   I never even thought of that... . Am I selfish?

[Turkish]

I'm sorry chad_sketch, that must have felt awful hearing that, but at least you got some form of honesty. She cared about you enough to tell the truth.

When mine was involved in some kind of affair, there were about two weeks when I thought we could work it out. I checked her phone, and the texts between them were ceaseless. Before I confronted her, I held her and she said, "what if I can't get the love back? What if this happens again?" It was then that I realized she was telling me what would happen no matter what I did, so I "technically" ended it. Huge argument ensued. A story I won't waste bandwidth on your thread... . like you, I realized I couldn't keep fighting. She made her decision, and I had the benefit of her telling me in a roundabout way. It hurt so much knowing for sure it was over. Being abandoned, we can only focus on ourselves. Take heart, brother, that you are not alone. It will take time, but it will get better... .

[Sunny Side]

... . If I'm honest, I want her back because I'd want the person that she is with me, not who she really is.

This selfish reason conflicts with the other more powerful motivation that I have. To keep her safe. I thought I could change the course of this thing, but all I've done is postpone her chances to figure it out for herself. I am really part of the problem. No matter what my intentions, no matter what I do, this will play out until she does something to change it.

I was wrong to use her feelings as leverage to change her into what I thought she should be. It was my well intended betrayal of her.

That's real stuff right there, chad, and something I'm sure I will try to explore in therapy.  My role in it and not so much hers.  Tell me, what was it that helped you discern that she was not the person that you thought you knew?  And do you think it was you who changed, i.e. the context of your relationship/enmeshment with her, or are you speaking more of the shape-shifting most wBPD do, mirroring the identities of whatever environment/situation they're in to mask the lack of their own?

Thanks so much for your post.

[corraline]

Its humbling and painful to admit our part

My part was all about CONTROL

When i was triggered so painfully by the betrayals i found myself pouring on the love

I recognized he was needy for attention so i made sure i gave him lots   

I spent weekends with him when i didnt feel like it because i was afraid he would be with another woman if i didnt

I was just as controlling as he was and i knew it .

I actually did try to change that somewhat because i understood that it was not healthy and it was not an honest way to relate

I tried to b more authentic with him

Im proud of myself that i could see this in myself and work on changing it but i feel bad that i did it and acted like i was the "real " and honest one for so long

[corraline]

I guess these could b learned coping skills

But not exactly healthy ones

[heartandwhole]

Very insightful and honest post, chad_sketch– thank you.  It is very humbling to realize our part of the dynamic, and you do that with grace.  This is a wonderful example for all of us.

This would be a great exploration on the Personal Inventory board, too.  

[heartandwhole]

Its humbling and painful to admit our part

My part was all about CONTROL

When i was triggered so painfully by the betrayals i found myself pouring on the love

I recognized he was needy for attention so i made sure i gave him lots    

I spent weekends with him when i didnt feel like it because i was afraid he would be with another woman if i didnt

I was just as controlling as he was and i knew it .

I actually did try to change that somewhat because i understood that it was not healthy and it was not an honest way to relate

I tried to b more authentic with him

Im proud of myself that i could see this in myself and work on changing it but i feel bad that i did it and acted like i was the "real " and honest one for so long

Awesome insight, corraline!  I can definitely relate to this.

I guess these could b learned coping skills

But not exactly healthy ones

[restoredsight]

Tell me, what was it that helped you discern that she was not the person that you thought you knew?  And do you think it was you who changed, i.e. the context of your relationship/enmeshment with her, or are you speaking more of the shape-shifting most wBPD do, mirroring the identities of whatever environment/situation they're in to mask the lack of their own?

It comes down to two things. First of all, her values fluctuate with who she is with, and this has caused her to involve herself in prostitution in the past and drugs in the present. Her interests in anything fluctuate, and I feel strongly that her interest in raising a child was no different than the few weeks that she wanted to do nothing but cook Thai food, that she was excited at first, but slowly lost motivation.

Secondly, I have accepted that everything was about her. I had that feeling a few times- she said/did certain things that set off my intuition. I ignored and explained them away. It's not until recently that I have been able accept it. She never did anything out of love. She does things so she can be valued. When she has needs she has no ethics or empathy. The first time I saw this was very early in the relationship, but I ignored it. What we had was no different than her exchanges with men for money.

My first attempt to leave my ex wife was fraught with the nastiest of things, and I decided I had to sneak out in the middle of the night. The next day, I felt so guilty about how I did this, especially since my stepson was around, and in pain. I decided that I had to try to go back and do it another way. I explained this to her, and she cried and all she said was, "What about me?" She didn't care who was hurt, as long as she got what she needed. This is exactly how she left me both times. This is who she is.

If i look at her behaviors from the 5 years that I've known her, and I imagine someone who has the same history being introduced to me right now, I wouldn't want anything to do with that person. Not as a friend, and certainly not as a lover. The only reason that I've been involved is that she was young, and she was becoming this person while I knew her. The two years we've been together changed nothing for her as far as I can tell.

[coolioqq]

This was a really honest and mind-opening post, chad_sketch. It is very telling about your motivation, but go easy on yourself: you did put up with all her aspects, so you must have loved her whole. We all cling (for the lack of a better word) to the "face" they showed us early on... . The inevitable changes we accept because (a) we love and (b) "no one is perfect" mindset kicks in when we need it to defend our love... .

It comes down to two things. First of all, her values fluctuate with who she is with, and this has caused her to involve herself in prostitution in the past and drugs in the present. Her interests in anything fluctuate, and I feel strongly that her interest in raising a child was no different than the few weeks that she wanted to do nothing but cook Thai food, that she was excited at first, but slowly lost motivation.

This was exactly the case with my dBPDexgf, although I am not sure if she was involved in prostitution and drugs before. I would not be surprised... . They don't have a stable sense of self. No matter what they say, even their emotions towards us change, sometimes within minutes. It is very difficult for them to have a stable set of values and moral standards. Or they have it, but they simply can't stick to it, which makes it more difficult for them because they end up hating themselves over that. All in all, despite our love for them, we (hopefully) get to the strong realization that they are simply not "family material" or even "relationship material" until they strongly commit to repairing their emotional state.

Your repeated attempts to help her do so are noble, but I think that is not something that you should hold yourself responsible for. Restoring (or in the case of pwBPD - building) emotional sanity is her own responsibility.

Secondly, I have accepted that everything was about her. I had that feeling a few times- she said/did certain things that set off my intuition. I ignored and explained them away. It's not until recently that I have been able accept it. She never did anything out of love. She does things so she can be valued. When she has needs she has no ethics or empathy. The first time I saw this was very early in the relationship, but I ignored it. What we had was no different than her exchanges with men for money.

Happened to a lot of us here. Fear of abandonment is central to BPD. It drives absolutely every action. They "mirror" - we either ignore the red flags or explain away, as you said. It is difficult for pwBPD to do things out of love because, at least in case of my dexBPDgf, she admitted that she does not even know what love is. That was probably the only entirely honest thing she ever said to me. BPD locks the sufferers, in terms of emotional development and intelligence, into the age of 3. Regardless of other aspects of their personality, they are essentially adult children... . It's idealistic to expect a 3-year-old to know, understand and accept love and love back.

If i look at her behaviors from the 5 years that I've known her, and I imagine someone who has the same history being introduced to me right now, I wouldn't want anything to do with that person. Not as a friend, and certainly not as a lover. The only reason that I've been involved is that she was young, and she was becoming this person while I knew her. The two years we've been together changed nothing for her as far as I can tell.

It sounds like you learned an important lesson. It's an experience, an unpleasant one, but you are now more aware than the average person out there. No one can take away what you learned. And, you'll know better for the next relationship, when you are ready.

[Samsara121]

When she has needs she has no ethics or empathy.

Wow! Those words are hitting home about my own r/s!

Thank you for your posts chad, I like your search for more authenticity.

[gary seven]

I am trying to accept the fact that my rescuing behaviors helped neither of us. All I'm doing by holding on, and still waiting for another recycle, is perpetuating her sickness. If I were to reenter a relationship with her it would be the same as before. If I'm honest, I want her back because I'd want the person that she is with me, not who she really is.

This selfish reason conflicts with the other more powerful motivation that I have. To keep her safe. I thought I could change the course of this thing, but all I've done is postpone her chances to figure it out for herself. I am really part of the problem. No matter what my intentions, no matter what I do, this will play out until she does something to change it.

And there it is. It's her choice. Loving this person means I have to let her go. Anything else would be a lie.

Add me to the list, Chad_Sketch, of finders of the light... . what you have written is what I must necessarily keep in my mind as I am on a precipice of figuring out how to make my relationship end. 

I have to let her go.

She has recycled three, maybe four times.  The most recent was this past Tuesday when I "fired her."     

She gets all teary, spends a lot of time away from our kids, smokes out on the back porch, cries about how she will have no health insurance and how she will have to move back in with her folks (where she gets it from, her Mom, is awful).

She has thousands of questions now, instead of hours of blame and yelling and black/white thinking.  I can't handle the questions.  I need a boundary.  So I have chosen to sleep on the couch on the school nights.

My kids are little, and it will take me some time to craft an exit strategy, but you are right.

I am perpetuating her sickness, and I have to let go.

Making it her choice is going to take a bit more time and work on both of our parts.

[Inside]

Chad_sketch,

Entranced by your insight …my gears are churning.  As I read the boards to remind myself why I should continue to move away from my often recycled relationship with uBPDexgf, I’ve mainly looked for reasons to turn-off to her.  Those are quite evident and easy …in comparison to what you’ve described… the role I’ve played.  Maybe it’s been easiest to blame her, to develop, then tap the anger of what I’ve been through … while ignoring the fact I’d witnessed and purposefully ignored the near identical behavior you described … while wanting to keep alive the happiness I experienced during the best of times …though apparently a performance on her part.

I’m now wondering how long it’s going to take to digest this food for thought?  Days, weeks …months…  Will I ever ‘get it?’  The fact ‘I recognize’ and relate to your descriptions and feelings gives me hope to eventually understand the part I played …if now seemingly just short of an innocent pedophile   But in “letting her go,” where will she go?  Who will she next screw up?  Will she grow without (my) help?  Will she even survive?  …or am I actually abandoning her?  

Coaxed together by a network of friends, I wasn’t her usual target and eventually engaged her over the BPD.  She then sought counseling, though denying BPD, while nibbling around the edges.  She obviously felt flawed in my eyes.  Yes, she was/ is, but I’d felt I was looking beyond the BPD (thus all that   ignoring?) …at her core self, someone I truly loved (maybe always will), thus willing to continue to overlook the obvious while focusing on a foundation for growth.  ‘High functioning,’ I admired her ability, though often strained, to hold down a good job and (most of the time) maintain solid values.  I thought I witnessed potential.  But with your bringing to light a BP’s lack of a ‘core self,’ with the obvious ability to be ‘anyone to everyone,’ was I that taken or mistaken?

But she couldn’t do it all.  And, she wouldn’t/ couldn’t dump her life-long coping habits or ditch her network of co-dependant comrades, for just me.  She couldn’t even admit to ‘higher functioning’ BPD.  And when considering the equivalent of a cold-turkey withdraw …as I’d watch her gears churn, apparently considering the difficulty vs. the gain… she decided to ‘stay the course.’  That well-worn path she’s traveled through life, with its expected highs and inevitable lows … while never living up to the consistent healthy expectations of someone who loves her in a way she can not even love herself…  Seems I was used, and she was abandoned?  Or, I used her and she ultimately abandoned me?  

Either way, I’ve got to stay away …four months and counting… though obviously not yet healed, you’ve helped  

[Sunny Side]

Tell me, what was it that helped you discern that she was not the person that you thought you knew?  And do you think it was you who changed, i.e. the context of your relationship/enmeshment with her, or are you speaking more of the shape-shifting most wBPD do, mirroring the identities of whatever environment/situation they're in to mask the lack of their own?

It comes down to two things. First of all, her values fluctuate with who she is with, and this has caused her to involve herself in prostitution in the past and drugs in the present. Her interests in anything fluctuate, and I feel strongly that her interest in raising a child was no different than the few weeks that she wanted to do nothing but cook Thai food, that she was excited at first, but slowly lost motivation.

Secondly, I have accepted that everything was about her. I had that feeling a few times- she said/did certain things that set off my intuition. I ignored and explained them away. It's not until recently that I have been able accept it. She never did anything out of love.


If i look at her behaviors from the 5 years that I've known her, and I imagine someone who has the same history being introduced to me right now, I wouldn't want anything to do with that person. Not as a friend, and certainly not as a lover. The only reason that I've been involved is... . she was becoming this person while I knew her.

More great insights from you, Chad, thank you!  In my recovery from this r/s I want to focus on the dysfunction and control that I continually brought to the r/s.  I even stopped drinking for 14 months (and I did enjoy the occasional spirit with no consequence, and used to, before our r/s began, drink around her regularly) not necessarily out of love for myself or my own health but out of a desire to control her.  She drank, acted in ways that terrified and triggered my own fears and insecurities so I decided to stop drinking to control her.  Lord, what a dishonest mess I was.