I'm joining the ranks of the Leaving Board

[Landslide2014]

So my battle begins and I'm wondering how to minimize the struggle and arrive as quickly as possible to physical separation.  After 21+ years of marriage, 4 beautiful children s19, d17, d14, s7 I am done, done, done.  I have tried so hard and while this is not what I had planned, it is what must happen for me to regain my sanity. I believe that the behavior of my uBPDH is a disease beyond his control. With that, I attempted to accept and live in a marriage knowing that, while becoming reacquainted with me inner truth.  It didn't work I cannot do it any longer. It is too maddening and because of my FOO It is time for my own healing.  I don't see that happening if I remain in the marriage. I need to have healthy relationships in my life right now.

So this is the point I am at:  I interviewed an attorney that I will reluctantly retain if my h does not agree to mediate. I absolutely believe in mediation, but as I have seen, what I believe in doesn't always work out. I have had to rehearse the delivery of my intention for 2 weeks before I got up enough nerve to speak it it to my H.  I have now reiterated the same thing 6-7? Times in the last week. His mood swings from being kind and insisting we should work it out, to insulting me and blaming me for the whole thing and threatening me for custody of the kids stating that I am suffering from being unstable, mentally incapable, suggesting I change my T, then texting me how much he loves me and links to how to heal a marriage. Tonight he was up my butt trying to converse like a normal couple. Earlier he came home singing "4 months, legally I have 4 months before they can do anything". Is that true?  Etc. Etc. Etc.

I am starting to lose my patience and I am really reaching not to engage. I am trying to be true to myself. Today he is played roles as super dad, son in law, husband. The difference this time is that I don't believe it. Does anyone have any advice?  I don't think it's best for me to move out. I believe that the kids would be better off with me having residential custody in the home they grew up in. I do not want to drag them through the battle and I would like to make it as painless as possible.  That being said, I am open to looking at other suggestions and I intend to be fair in all other aspects of the breakup. I am just feeling a little lost right now.

This site has been a lifesaver for me.  Thank you.

[Unleashed]

I am sorry to hear.  The decision point is often the more troubling phase. The "confidence" phase has it's merits once the ball is rolling... .

Your principle of considering moving out, or other arrangements would be based on State law, and case history if your fear a custody decision by doing so.   There may be options related to a protective/restraining order for you. I do not recommend stretching the truth to use P.O.'s or warrants, that tendency is usually reciprocated in ugly extended patterns.  Perhaps your statement was unclear, is your FOO dysfunctional, supportive, or biased toward him, I didn't get it?

I had periods of indecision in my case too. Well I spent years knowing my course but not acting on it.  While your case may be different, there comes a point when we know that a) we can be treated OK but never love the person, B) we can doubt our safety for the remaining decades.  Both A and B are not acceptable.  Hopefully your adult son can help, place to live, etc, or some friends.  It sounds like 3/4 of your kids are old enough to contribute to equitable custody statements for court.   

Maybe the following thought will be inspiring:  There is conflict that builds and conflict that destroys. If we are destined to conflict by observation of our past and circumstances, let us at least have the liberty to select that which builds us up.

Hang in there.

[Landslide2014]

Thank you for weighing in, unleased. My older son is actually away at school riight now. The attorney I consulted did tell me that my lkder kids would basically decide where they wanted to live.  It breaks my heart to put them in that position. As, unhealthy as my H is, he is still their father and he is a good father. He is just not the more stable parent.

My comment about FOO relates to my own choices adapted in my childhood to take responsibility for others,and not feel worthy enough to take care of me (Alcoholic mom.  Abusive dad).  Hence my marriage was perfect in a sense... . I took on way more responsibility than I should have amd my H was unable to take on the necessary responsibility that he should have. Problem was, it  eventually occurred to me thhat I was worthy enough to no longer accept the  emotional abuse. I had to emerge from my trap. So here I am.

As far as my family, well, they are trying to "fix it" for us lecturing me on everything I could do to accept the circumstances, stay in the marriage and make it better. They have no clue.  Incidentally, all are divorced and not one of them is currently in a healthy relationship. This reaction from them was a heart breaker to me, as I have always idolized my family.   Though in hindsight, it really illustrates that they have their own issues to overcome and I myself survived by "fixing" things. Its no wonder. I really thought it was obvious how much time and effort went in to saving the marriage... . Marriage weekends, weekly support groups, conseling, church... . All over the course of the last nine years. My pain has been so intense over the last 2 years that I can't believe they couldn't see.  But gratefully, as you have pointed out, it has become confidence (an opportunity) to build.  And although that was probably the catalyst that rocked the boat (now sinking), I have somehow figured out a way to swim and let go of saving my H. It is his own choice whether he sink or swim.

In the meantime, I have grown anxious to move along and I feel that I am lacking some legal knowledge. Is there a time frame placed on this process of divorce?  Is there anything I could do to be pro active? 

[Unleashed]

Your timeframe for divorce varies from 6 weeks in Nevada, to 1 year in many states, to instant in a few middle eastern spots. Realistically, your state governs that.

Being pro-active:

1) I would consider saving as much money as you can, possibly even placing it in a friend's special savings account (not accessible or known to him).  Then when you retain an attorney, you may choose to retain him with 3x the money he wants, so you are using your attorney's office as a bank, they pay back excesses.  You may wish to consider a live-in caretaker arrangement for perhaps an old lady if housing becomes a fear (free + an ear to listen, well that depends on which old lady you get... . ).  So these ideas above may provide some financial liberty

2) Secure your computer, internet history, etc.  That way when you sign up to a support group or forum, that is not used to stalk you. You can be completely in the clear regarding your life, but privacy is a civil right, enjoy it.

3) If BPD is the issue, then consider decoy bluffs, maybe not as seriously as I did, but a thought... .   For example expressing great interest in your car/boat/whatever but not your house to the kids in front of him. Then he will fight legally for your car/boat/etc just to spite you, and leave what really counts alone. I did this over a span of one year prior to separation, it is working perfectly.  I have the wife drooling over getting my $6k car with her attorney, when the house is a secondary issue. Really nuts, yes, but it worked.

4) If you fear any kind of set up for assault, or an assault, getting a voice activated recorder from Walmart on you may help.  You can leave it running whenever you are potentially near him, if something happens, clip out the needed part.  This is becoming rather standard issue for conflict divorces.  Make sure to wear the thing, it is a wiretapping legal mess to place it on anything non-human such as a flowerpot, cat, car, etc.

As far as my family, well, they are trying to "fix it" for us lecturing me on everything I could do to accept the circumstances, stay in the marriage and make it better.

Wow, ditto to my case. I brought the family into it, their marriages are also made of brittle ceramic.  Their advice was to stay in it, we can fix this, mutual respect, blah.  I am respectful and peaceful, but their plan was idealistic.  I suspect that others that suffer in marriages may try to conform us, to ameliorate their pain.  When I was anchored to my BPD, I felt jealosy when I heard someone divorcing. I saw the liberty and peace that I "would never see."  That may be your family's motivator based on your description of them. The other case may be their family pride, not as likely.

Some philosophy: I feel that we do a disservice to our morals (valued perspectives on life), when we go idealistic and put ourselves in a position where we must violate our integrity (ability to follow through with morals).  So we place morality on such an unreachable plane that we stay in the marriage, become a hypocrite, do not love the person at all, and dream all day long about being out.  How moral was that?  I hold to forgiveness for a genuinely sorry person, but it can be conditional without reconciliation.  The origin of some of these thoughts are my interpretation of a biblical perspective, it works for me.

[Landslide2014]

Thank you for the help and answering. I feel a slight bit paralyzed coming to terms with the reality. When I bounce it off of the "philosophy" however, the choice is obvious and violating my integrity is no longer an option.  The idea of hiding assets and being misleading about the prize unsettles me. And I know it is probably necessary. My instinct is currently in a battle with my desire to be fair. Instinct gets the next move. As far as moving out, I am not able to abandon my kids. I have decided to not abandon myself but I also will not make a move that is not in the best interest of my children.  I guess I am going to have to really work on peace and patience from beyond and  within.

[ForeverDad]

Probably any local lawyer can recite the state's laws and processes for divorce, custody, child support, spousal support, alimony, division of assets & debts, etc.  What to search for and find is a lawyer who can provide a strategy for coming out the other side in one piece. You've met one lawyer, why not have confidential consultations with a few mother.  Generally they're inexpensive and can help you round out your familiarity with you rights and what is best for you and the children versus assorted legal traps along the way.  Can any of them give a thoughtful strategy that is flexible enough to handle the wrenches a disordered and probably oppositional spouse may throw into the system?

Okay, you've gifted your 'fair' speech to your spouse.  Understand that sharing information with your spouse could turn out to be used against you.  (That's why I used the word 'gifted' since your spouse may not respond fairly in reciprocation of your intention.)  Henceforth weigh everything you say to him, could he use it against you later?  Could he develop his own strategies to oppose you unfairly, such as by raiding the joint accounts, charging debts hoping you'll be stuck with them, trying to make you appear as the problem person, etc?  Around here obstruction, sabotage and even false allegations are our lot in life.  To be forewarned is to be forearmed.

[livednlearned]

So this is the point I am at:  I interviewed an attorney that I will reluctantly retain if my h does not agree to mediate. I absolutely believe in mediation, but as I have seen, what I believe in doesn't always work out. I have had to rehearse the delivery of my intention for 2 weeks before I got up enough nerve to speak it it to my H.  I have now reiterated the same thing 6-7? Times in the last week. His mood swings from being kind and insisting we should work it out, to insulting me and blaming me for the whole thing and threatening me for custody of the kids stating that I am suffering from being unstable, mentally incapable, suggesting I change my T, then texting me how much he loves me and links to how to heal a marriage. Tonight he was up my butt trying to converse like a normal couple. Earlier he came home singing "4 months, legally I have 4 months before they can do anything". Is that true?  Etc. Etc. Etc.

A couple of really important things to do immediately: Buy a copy of Splitting by Bill Eddy if you haven't already. Eddy is a former therapist, now practicing attorney. The legal process is very opaque and intimidating, and it's expensive to have a lawyer hold your hand through it. Splitting is an excellent view not only into the court system, but how high-conflict  divorces tend to go in court.

A second important thing to do: document everything you can. Photocopy all your important records. Get passports for the kids (both parents have to sign, and it's much easier to do when he isn't triggered by you leaving). Make sure you have information about all the accounts, account numbers, passwords.

Third: Have an important strategy for protecting your financial accounts. Things can get really emotional very quickly, and it's not uncommon for spouses to change locks, empty houses of all the contents, gut a savings account, run up a credit card. The day I left, I took half out of our bank account. This is considered an "advance" on the final financial settlement. No repercussions, it just gets subtracted when Ls sit down to talk about equitable distribution.

If there is anything of sentimental value or any memorabilia that's meaningful to you in the house, find a place for it until you know what's going to happen. Related to this -- have a watertight strategy for the day you tell H that you are filing for divorce. Whether you will change locks, stay somewhere else, whether he will continue to live there, how you will support yourself during the initial months before (and if) he pays spousal support or vice versa.

Every state has different laws, and every county has a different reputation for interpreting those laws. When you go talk to your L, have a list of questions, and bring someone with you (if you can) to help you keep track of what the L says. You'll feel emotional and it will be hard to remember what was said. Don't tell your H that you are talking to a lawyer -- don't share anything about your strategy to leave.

Fourth: If you can afford it, see a therapist. These are intensely difficult relationships to end, and you'll need someone to help check your thinking. Your family can't do this -- they sound like mine. They'll think you are creating conflict instead of asserting boundaries.

See if you can get your kids into therapy before filing for divorce with your H's permission. I was really lucky and had started the process for my son when he was 8, right before I left. They thought he might have a learning disability, and N/BPDx agreed to therapy for my son because he was under the impression it was for psycho-educational reasons. That therapy was profoundly helpful. N/BPDx would have blocked it and made it impossible to find someone. And it's pretty hard to get your kids into therapy after the divorce becomes active.

Great advice from FD. Consult with multiple lawyers. Find out if any of them have experience with high-conflict personalities or BPD more specifically. How did those cases go? What might the L do differently with a high-conflict divorce?

The problem with these divorces is that BPD sufferers cannot comply with anything. So even if you reach a settlement in mediation, it is highly unlikely your ex will comply. And then you end up back in court, and on and on it goes.

I'm so sorry your marriage has come to this, Landslide. Mine has been really painful, but it's so much better over here on the other side. I've learned so much and come so far, and despite all the drama and chaos, I live in a peaceful, calm, safe home. My self worth is better, my anxiety is down, and while it's not perfect, it's a better life than I had with N/BPDx.



LnL

[Landslide2014]

Thank you all so much for your input. I guess I was kind of hoping it would go smoother than it appears it might. I have big knot in my stomach. I will start being more financially aware.  I have interviewed 2 attorneys. Maybe I should continues. I suppose that more knowledge would be more helpful. This whole thing goes against my very fiber.  It seems so ironic. The H know where I'm headed but is in grave denial. He just got out his 5th or 6th marriage "repair" book, has been using "God" to try and make his point, filled my voicemail, texts and emails with suggestions of how he so desperately believes in miracles and here's how, telling me how he loves me... . I am so f'n angry. Just because I know the attempt holds no weight and it reminds me of the endless times I believed it and how I wish I could still believe it today. I cannot even stand being in the same place with him, enduring one more comment that he believe that I know will never materialize. I am fuming!  Breathe. Just breathe.

[Unleashed]

Hang in there. 

The God talk... .   Mine did/does the same thing, it is frustrating. I take a theologically elegant-educated approach to christianity, shall I say a genuine one, my BPD'r was an example along the lines of Acts 16:16-17, Bible recognizes the fault in the conduct. I think God becomes just another tool in their box if it is not a genuine matter to them. I like Gandhi's thought: “I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.” only sometimes true.

One technique to alleviate the assault of clingyness:  tell him that the separation is a time to review your relationship with him and God.  Most of us could attach some truth to that statement in separation.  This makes your legally required separation a process that he cooperates with (maybe) thinking you need chill time.

Lawyers vary, there are shark types who want conflict either for profit or for something to fight for, there are practical ones who care about the family and want solutions with little conflict, and there are rookies who can be a good resource esp if you are on a budget. I went for a practical one I knew well.  $$ goes beyond their stated rates, is this guy going to make every email a $40 deal, or is he going to round down a few... . Mine is running at half my anticipated cost, just a nice guy.  You can't ask them, but you can get a feel for the personality.

[nomadicsoul]

Hang in there! 23 years here- moving on and out. I can't believe what I read here, I felt so alone.

Go with the flow, but swim for the shore.

NS