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Author Topic: Is it possible to stay friends?  (Read 13003 times)
JohnThorn
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« on: April 14, 2014, 04:17:13 PM »

Has anyone managed to maintain a relatively healthy friendship with their BPD ex after the breakup was over. One that did not lead to sex or romance.

Today is a very important anniversary in my BPD ex's life. I so badly want to reach out and let her know I'm here for her. I have been considering doing it all day but I want to make sure my motive is clean. I do care about her. So much. For so many years. And to just walk out because the relationship didn't work doesn't make much sense to me even tho I feel she has the potential to really put me in the ground. Why not just be friends? Can it be done?

Anyone know?

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SWLSR
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« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2014, 04:49:37 PM »

Every situation is different and i guess it is possible.  but if u ask me on the surface i would say no u can't.  these people r mo better at being friends than they r at relationships.  if i were u i would not try it.

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winston72
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« Reply #2 on: April 14, 2014, 05:53:56 PM »

Hey JohnThorn... . processing the loss of this relationship is really painful and hard.  Perhaps that is the priority right now. 

Having read some of your other posts, would you say that you currently have a healthy friendship with her that you would like to maintain?  It is really awful to think of losing someone with whom you have such a deep history.  Really awful, and to those of us who have experienced it (and are still experiencing it), it seems like such a needless waste.  But, it is also a needless effort to continue injuring yourself by relating to someone who "has the potential to put you in the ground."  JT, this is not a characteristic of even a "relatively" healthy relationship.

JT, what are some of the feelings that drive you to want to continue to live with such risk and pain?  In my case, I deeply feared the sense of emptiness that would result from losing my ex.  I really, really wanted her and I did not want to face life without that sense of desire.  And, JT, as the relationship began to disintegrate, I started with a T because I was having self destructive thoughts... . all this is to say that you circumstances resonate with me.  I do not ask these questions blindly... . they count and they start to lead to pathways forward.

What is it that feels so comfortable to you about relating to someone who hurts you so terribly?  What are you seeking?  What are you avoiding?  What are you really feeling now?  Right now? 
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JohnThorn
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« Reply #3 on: April 14, 2014, 07:07:52 PM »

Hey JohnThorn... . processing the loss of this relationship is really painful and hard.  Perhaps that is the priority right now. 

Having read some of your other posts, would you say that you currently have a healthy friendship with her that you would like to maintain?  It is really awful to think of losing someone with whom you have such a deep history.  Really awful, and to those of us who have experienced it (and are still experiencing it), it seems like such a needless waste.  But, it is also a needless effort to continue injuring yourself by relating to someone who "has the potential to put you in the ground."  JT, this is not a characteristic of even a "relatively" healthy relationship.

JT, what are some of the feelings that drive you to want to continue to live with such risk and pain?  In my case, I deeply feared the sense of emptiness that would result from losing my ex.  I really, really wanted her and I did not want to face life without that sense of desire.  And, JT, as the relationship began to disintegrate, I started with a T because I was having self destructive thoughts... . all this is to say that you circumstances resonate with me.  I do not ask these questions blindly... . they count and they start to lead to pathways forward.

What is it that feels so comfortable to you about relating to someone who hurts you so terribly?  What are you seeking?  What are you avoiding?  What are you really feeling now?  Right now? 

Thank you for this

You ever look at someone, and no matter what they've done to you, no matter what your feelings for them (based on circumstance and past history) are... . no matter what, you always come back to the love you had for them when you first met?

I met my BPD ex almost 8 years ago.  I was 24.  She was 18.  The way I see it, we were kids.  But the moment I saw her (literally the very first moment)... . I felt like I knew her all my life.  I felt like she was my "other half"... . I fell in love with her in a way that never happened to me before or since.  I can't tell you what it was.  There's something about her eyes, its sensitivity... . but more than that, her face and her aura feel like home base.  I don't feel anchored without her in my life.  I went many years without talking to her.  Long before she was my "ex"... . I cut ties with her many years ago after a brief romantic stint that didn't qualify her as my ex.  I suffered then, but I moved on.  THIS TIME... . I was really with her, and we were very serious.  And I find it unbearable to say goodbye a second and final time.  I don't believe either one of us really preferred being out of the other's life.  I do believe while she has Borderline, and while she's a selfish, delusional person, I still believe she has the capacity to really love.  But I don't believe she has the capacity to be stably good to those she loves.  This is why, maybe only a friendship would do.  I fear without her in my life I will walk around until my dying day with this gigantic hole in my being. 

I think the thing that makes BPD so hard to remove yourself from is two-fold:

I think the people that stand by them are very sensitive to the needs of others, and likely insecure.

And I think there is much about the BPD person that is easy to fall in love with.

However, I cannot for the life of me understand why I was so taken by this girl so fast.  It is very unnatural for me, and it never happened ever again or since.  It was like I felt a spiritual connection never again to be felt.

I don't want to say goodbye :'(
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winston72
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« Reply #4 on: April 14, 2014, 08:00:23 PM »

Hey JT... . very wonderfully expressed.  My heart goes out to you. 

You expressed many things that are true for me and, I think, for many others on this site.  Thank you.

The primary name for this site is not often referred to by those of us on the site.  It is called bpdfamily.com.  I have found this to be a helpful guiding principle.  It has helped me to see things clearly and pave the way for recovery.  I would like to point out a few "facts" that I hear when I read your posts.

She was/is a very special person to you.

You have a strong attraction to her and a deep affection for her.

You share many years of common history.

You had many wonderful times together.

She lied/lies to you about big things and little things.

She abandoned you emotionally.

She betrayed you sexually.

She contradicts herself on very important matters, and does not acknowledge it.

She says she loves you while having a sexual relationship with another man/she tells another man she loves you while having a sexual relationship with him.

She lacks compassion, empathy and warmth for you, or at least she cannot sustain it.  The hot/cold; on/off; push/pull way she relates to you is very disruptive, disorienting and painful.

Your emotional suffering as a result of all the above is of a level as to drive you to find relief in thoughts of your own death.

This is what I glean from reading your posts.  They are all true; they all exist in the same relationship; all the corresponding feelings exist within you.  Any of us want to affirm either the positive or the negative aspects to the exclusion of the others.  For me, the tendency is to affirm all of the good times, to assert they can be revived, to believe the painful things will fade and in so doing recapture my beloved and avoid the terror of the loss.  Or, I have phases when I declare her to be a manipulative liar, a faithless cheater who will never change and who should be avoided at all costs.  I would find comfort in one extreme or the other.  What I really needed to do, and eventually was able to do, was to hold all of these facts/truths in my head, to see her, me and our relationship as accurately as possible... . and then to allow myself to experience my genuine feelings about all of it. 

Common sense, which had very little power over me, would lead one to believe that continuing in a relationship that triggers suicidal feelings is not wise or constructive.  People are in relationships of varying types with loved ones with BPD.  You can walk through some of these on the other boards on the site.  Perhaps that is not the key question right now.  The immediate matter is what you need to do to restore wholeness to your own life. 

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Clearmind
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« Reply #5 on: April 14, 2014, 08:04:27 PM »

No on can be your other half. No one can complete you - a healthy relationship involves two folks who are whole and compliment rather than complete. If we look to someone to complete then we are seeking love out of need. The r/s starts on shakey ground with an even shakier attachment.

What is your definition of friendship? Think of your best friend - right a list of important qualities that keep you both in the friendship.
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Changingman
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« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2014, 01:52:58 AM »

No John,

YOU can't, you have real feelings for her and these will/have been turned toxic by BPDx.

SHE can't , BPD is love in its most toxic form. Love as hate, love as hurt, love as abuse, a dark hole that will open up and swollow your sanity.

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just_confused

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« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2014, 06:38:51 AM »

Hi, John. I would like to strongly encourage you to not contact her. I am learning through therapy that they are masters of manipulation and very seductive and only focused on their needs. They will destroy another person to fullfil their empty spot in them, and have no regard, empathy or remorse for doing it. They are not capable of those feelings no matter how much they say they are or we wish they were. It is all a lie and way to manipulate you.  Reading your past posts, I am worried about you being strong enough to resist and getting sucked back in. It is hard enough to recover from what we are all going through right now, I don't want to see you start back over at square 1. I have been doing this weekly for the last 3 weeks, and each time, my energy and resistance gets weaker and I find myself spiraling down the rabbit hole, even doing things I wouldn't normally do (like beg him to work things out and declaring I will wait for him). Then I have a moment of clairity and realize that I am feeding him by doing these things. Filling the void for him while torturing myself. Believe me, with my break up being so relatively new (3 weeks) and still staying in contact via responding to him, the rabbit hole is getting longer and more tiresome. I know the compassionate heart in you wants to reach out and give her comfort, but she is not your responsibility. Her pain is not your responsibility. The person you need to focus on is you. I know it is hard, but you need to make youself well, so that when you do find that relationship that is good for you, you are not so damaged by her actions, you can't engage with the next person. Please, I am asking you not to contact her. Take care of yourself. Put your needs first. Put your healing first. Protect yourself. That is most important.

Just confused.
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Fool for Love
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« Reply #8 on: April 15, 2014, 08:23:48 AM »

John... . this is one of the best things I have read on this board... I have saved it to my phone and read it daily... I know the empty feeling that you have... I have been there ... still kinda am ... but I look at FACTS of what my exgf did ... . look at the facts of what she has done to you... read this below ... .

They were never into you to begin with

They are seriously mentally ill. Stop trying to make sense of her behavior. You can't. Stop trying to rationalize it. That's why it's called "mental illness" and a "Personality Disorder". For a borderline to admit they have BPD is to admit their perceptions of reality have been crazy their entire lives and that they are insane. It's life changing for a BPD to get better. It takes real commitment and you have to constantly be fighting your very perception of reality. Think about that and understand the magnitude of such a thing. It's daunting and is terrifying for someone with BPD. It's alright to take pity on their condition and empathize, but you need to accept it, pity it for a moment, then move on with your life. Forever. There's no going back. She's already violated every possible boundary a healthy person would even begin to accept with you. It's admirable that you still care for her, but take it from someone who knows. They are wasted tears and wasted emotions. Your BPD is not thinking about you at all. She never does. She has new supply now that is meeting her emotional needs at the moment. There is no guilt. No "sigh, I miss him" crap you see in the movies. They are out laughing and having a great time in the arms of another man. Believe it and accept it or you will drive yourself off the cliff emotionally and go crazy yourself. That cloudy thinking leaves you stuck in Oz and vulnerable to that sucking sound of a very good vacuum cleaner.

A lot of people cling on to a desperate hope that "there's a chance", because there have been VERY FEW success stories. BPD is never cured though. It's a life long condition, yes even with DBT. Borderlines can only learn to recognize suppress and control their behavioral urges. Not stop them. There is biological evidence to prove this and there is very intriguing data about how the amydala can be a key factor in the illness, on how there is differences between normal people and borderlines in this regard.

You have to stay NC to protect you from yourself. I know what would happen if she contacted you right now. You'd be on your guard, but you'd talk to her, feel the intoxication of her attention because it's feeding your addiction to her. She would seem normal, maybe even tell you "You're really the one. She needs you. Only you understand her... blah blah blah"... . but you have to understand, when you're dealing with a borderline, it's never about you. Ever. "It's always about them."

Once that simple statement, "It's always about them" truly resonates within you and you accept it, you will never be over this relationship. It's taken me years to start to feel normal again after my relationship. I'm only telling you this because I empathize with where you are right now. How you feel. I've been there man, stuck in the deepest pit of despair over my heart ache and sense of insanity and injustice. It makes you question your very existence. It's as if who you thought you were was a lie, because of how easily discarded like used tissue they made you feel. It's a very real and very large ego hit. It destroys what's called your ideal self. The truth is they were a lie. Their entire lives are a lie. It was never a real relationship between the two of you. Not on any rational, sane, healthy level. It's not possible with a borderline.

You were abused. Badly. No amount of iron mental defenses a person has, it can quickly wither under the subtle manipulations of a borderline. They have been known to manipulate therapists using tactics like Projective Identification. It's toxic mentally to be around these people for sustained periods of time. Now that I've been out of Oz for awhile I've met women and dated them and immediately recognized the HUGE ridiculous red flags that borderlines exhibit early on in the relationship.

This is true for all borderlines. When you first meet them they are very engaging. They suck you in. Make you feel like home. Their attention is fixated on you, and only you. You feel wanted. What you think is the "chemistry" you've been looking for, is a death trap. You need to run away. Even when they mirror you, within the first or second date, they can't keep the BPD behaviors in check. Look for the subtle signs. How they make quick movements and will do loud things, because they want people to look at them. They always want attention. When I'd go to a bar with my ex, it was always about her from the second we walked in. She wanted people to look at her 24/7. She'd wear really tight outfits so her body was on full display. They want attention 24/7.

When they are mirroring you and sucking you in, remind yourself that there is a guy who really cares about her that is exactly like you. Being played. Manipulated. Used. Taken for granted. Once they smash your boundaries and you accept it, forget it. They have you and then you're in for a world of pain my friend. It never ends well with these people. They are a wrecking ball to all the lives they come in intimate contact with. You're never the only one seeing the BPD behavior and/or being a victim of it. Other people see it too. Their family knows. Deep down, unless they are crazy too. Borderlines stick out like sore thumbs to people who are rational with solid healthy boundaries in place. Healthy people avoid them like the plague.

You have a long journey ahead of you. I'd advise you to start strapping on your boots now, because you're going to go through boot camp. It's going to be an emotional hell for you to truly address the reason why you got involved with this woman. You didn't find this website by accident. None of us do. We went searching for something because we knew something just "wasn't right". Even under all the projection, blaming, rages, confusion, push pull, weird insane behaviors, there was a sane part of us that would not crumble. We googled things like "My ex cheated on me while my father was dying from cancer and now acts like I don't exist literally overnight" and up came with a million hits for BPD.

There are a lot of powerful tools and discussion on these boards for nons who are desperate for help and answers to the private hell they've been living. Nons are victims of abuse and like any victim of extreme abuse, people don't usually talk about it. I'd recommend you go buy the book "One Way Ticket to Kansas". Read it 50 times if you have to until the reality of your situation starts to really sink in.

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ScotisGone74
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« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2014, 01:07:00 PM »

John you may want to read over some of the other many posts about being 'friends' with BPDs.   I wouldn't want to say its impossible... ... . but its impossible.      Honestly staying  in contact puts you in direct aim to receive more hurt more manipulation and more blame.      And for what?   Friendship is truly a two way street.   Ask yourself what you would receive from a continued 'friendship' with this person.   
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lemon flower
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« Reply #10 on: April 15, 2014, 01:26:09 PM »

John you may want to read over some of the other many posts about being 'friends' with BPDs.   I wouldn't want to say its impossible... ... . but its impossible.      Honestly staying  in contact puts you in direct aim to receive more hurt more manipulation and more blame.      And for what?   Friendship is truly a two way street.   Ask yourself what you would receive from a continued 'friendship' with this person.   

hello ScotisGone,

I'd like to read some of those topics too, can you link some here ?

thank you!
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ScotisGone74
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« Reply #11 on: April 16, 2014, 09:03:15 AM »

Triss just browse up at down the pages here for titles about "Friends", there are many that ask questions about being 'friends' with the exBPD.   
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Tincup
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« Reply #12 on: April 16, 2014, 11:50:47 AM »

Maybe it would be possible to remain friends IF they could stay within YOUR boundaries.  But in my case she can't, and when I enforce them she paints me black... . so no you can't.
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findingmyselfagain
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« Reply #13 on: April 16, 2014, 01:32:36 PM »

There are many posts about what happens when you try to stay friends. I stayed in touch with mine after the b/u because I didn't know about BPD and the b/u seemed very ambiguous. I wanted to be sure if she was the love of my life or not. It sure did seem like it at one time. We'd email back and forth on FB and email occasionally. Sometimes she would be very responsive... . sometimes she would ignore me for a month or more... . sometimes she would be vicious. Why did I keep trying? What is keeping you stuck? For me it was really kindness and compassion. I saw the hurt side to her and I wanted to be a  healing force in her life. Is that really healthy though? Why would I essentially ask for drama or a high-maintenance r/s in my life if I was at peace with myself and truly thriving? That's something I still have to think about. So far I've managed to move slower and make wiser r/s choices. I needed to learn to love myself and do the work to find healthier r/s's. It's worth the journey, however long it may take. It's easier for me when I'm easier on myself. I just know that I need to work at it a little harder until it comes a little more naturally.
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JohnThorn
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« Reply #14 on: April 16, 2014, 08:10:13 PM »

John... . this is one of the best things I have read on this board... I have saved it to my phone and read it daily... I know the empty feeling that you have... I have been there ... still kinda am ... but I look at FACTS of what my exgf did ... . look at the facts of what she has done to you... read this below ... .

They were never into you to begin with

They are seriously mentally ill. Stop trying to make sense of her behavior. You can't. Stop trying to rationalize it. That's why it's called "mental illness" and a "Personality Disorder". For a borderline to admit they have BPD is to admit their perceptions of reality have been crazy their entire lives and that they are insane. It's life changing for a BPD to get better. It takes real commitment and you have to constantly be fighting your very perception of reality. Think about that and understand the magnitude of such a thing. It's daunting and is terrifying for someone with BPD. It's alright to take pity on their condition and empathize, but you need to accept it, pity it for a moment, then move on with your life. Forever. There's no going back. She's already violated every possible boundary a healthy person would even begin to accept with you. It's admirable that you still care for her, but take it from someone who knows. They are wasted tears and wasted emotions. Your BPD is not thinking about you at all. She never does. She has new supply now that is meeting her emotional needs at the moment. There is no guilt. No "sigh, I miss him" crap you see in the movies. They are out laughing and having a great time in the arms of another man. Believe it and accept it or you will drive yourself off the cliff emotionally and go crazy yourself. That cloudy thinking leaves you stuck in Oz and vulnerable to that sucking sound of a very good vacuum cleaner.

A lot of people cling on to a desperate hope that "there's a chance", because there have been VERY FEW success stories. BPD is never cured though. It's a life long condition, yes even with DBT. Borderlines can only learn to recognize suppress and control their behavioral urges. Not stop them. There is biological evidence to prove this and there is very intriguing data about how the amydala can be a key factor in the illness, on how there is differences between normal people and borderlines in this regard.

You have to stay NC to protect you from yourself. I know what would happen if she contacted you right now. You'd be on your guard, but you'd talk to her, feel the intoxication of her attention because it's feeding your addiction to her. She would seem normal, maybe even tell you "You're really the one. She needs you. Only you understand her... blah blah blah"... . but you have to understand, when you're dealing with a borderline, it's never about you. Ever. "It's always about them."

Once that simple statement, "It's always about them" truly resonates within you and you accept it, you will never be over this relationship. It's taken me years to start to feel normal again after my relationship. I'm only telling you this because I empathize with where you are right now. How you feel. I've been there man, stuck in the deepest pit of despair over my heart ache and sense of insanity and injustice. It makes you question your very existence. It's as if who you thought you were was a lie, because of how easily discarded like used tissue they made you feel. It's a very real and very large ego hit. It destroys what's called your ideal self. The truth is they were a lie. Their entire lives are a lie. It was never a real relationship between the two of you. Not on any rational, sane, healthy level. It's not possible with a borderline.

You were abused. Badly. No amount of iron mental defenses a person has, it can quickly wither under the subtle manipulations of a borderline. They have been known to manipulate therapists using tactics like Projective Identification. It's toxic mentally to be around these people for sustained periods of time. Now that I've been out of Oz for awhile I've met women and dated them and immediately recognized the HUGE ridiculous red flags that borderlines exhibit early on in the relationship.

This is true for all borderlines. When you first meet them they are very engaging. They suck you in. Make you feel like home. Their attention is fixated on you, and only you. You feel wanted. What you think is the "chemistry" you've been looking for, is a death trap. You need to run away. Even when they mirror you, within the first or second date, they can't keep the BPD behaviors in check. Look for the subtle signs. How they make quick movements and will do loud things, because they want people to look at them. They always want attention. When I'd go to a bar with my ex, it was always about her from the second we walked in. She wanted people to look at her 24/7. She'd wear really tight outfits so her body was on full display. They want attention 24/7.

When they are mirroring you and sucking you in, remind yourself that there is a guy who really cares about her that is exactly like you. Being played. Manipulated. Used. Taken for granted. Once they smash your boundaries and you accept it, forget it. They have you and then you're in for a world of pain my friend. It never ends well with these people. They are a wrecking ball to all the lives they come in intimate contact with. You're never the only one seeing the BPD behavior and/or being a victim of it. Other people see it too. Their family knows. Deep down, unless they are crazy too. Borderlines stick out like sore thumbs to people who are rational with solid healthy boundaries in place. Healthy people avoid them like the plague.

You have a long journey ahead of you. I'd advise you to start strapping on your boots now, because you're going to go through boot camp. It's going to be an emotional hell for you to truly address the reason why you got involved with this woman. You didn't find this website by accident. None of us do. We went searching for something because we knew something just "wasn't right". Even under all the projection, blaming, rages, confusion, push pull, weird insane behaviors, there was a sane part of us that would not crumble. We googled things like "My ex cheated on me while my father was dying from cancer and now acts like I don't exist literally overnight" and up came with a million hits for BPD.

There are a lot of powerful tools and discussion on these boards for nons who are desperate for help and answers to the private hell they've been living. Nons are victims of abuse and like any victim of extreme abuse, people don't usually talk about it. I'd recommend you go buy the book "One Way Ticket to Kansas". Read it 50 times if you have to until the reality of your situation starts to really sink in.


I read this 3 times today, thank you!
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JohnThorn
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« Reply #15 on: April 16, 2014, 08:10:47 PM »

Thank you so much guys! Man this is a great place!
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lemon flower
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« Reply #16 on: April 17, 2014, 04:06:25 AM »

I suppose "staying friends" with a BPD, equals "staying"... .

as such I might have to move to the staying boards 

I came to realise that even though we are now living separatedly, having our own lives (technically), avoiding sexual intercourse, meeting eachother on a "limited" base, etc. we are still having a r/s on an emotional level, and it's still based on HIS needs... . although there are "benefits" for me too

but this way it works for me: having defined this as a friendship helps enormously to set boundaries and limits the expectations of "more" , both to him as to me

and we are both happier: me because I can still be there hor him, and he is more thankful and feels less lonely, and I am the only female friend his has, which is a completely different dynamic than "meeting with the guys"

allthough he hangs around with them he is too disordered to really connect to them, and he doesn't feel safe with them, sometimes for no reason, sometimes because they truly can't be trusted, as they take advantage of him or bully him :-(

I suppose I became some kind of personal coach to him, a resting area where he can relax a little bit... .
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Tolou
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« Reply #17 on: April 17, 2014, 07:24:40 AM »

Stay friends? John, why would you want to do that to yourself? or to her?

Maybe the best friend you can be to her and yourself is to stay away as difficult as that may sound.  Theres a reason why the relationship didn't work, whatever theose reasons are, it didn't work.  Learn from it, and slowly move forward towards bettering yourself and finding real friends and happiness in life.  In no way am putting people with BPD into a box or to say that they can't truely love or be someones friends.  But it's obvious that you still have deep emotions for this person, being their friend won't work... . Do you want to be there as a rebound or recycle everytime her realtionships fail?  Do want to be used and hear of her being with other men while you it idly by and hope that maybe she can see you for who you are?  The truth is, you both had your chance and for x-amount of reason you went your seperate ways.  You can find find someone else in life that will make you feel at home and loved, their out there, but it takes hard work to find.  I have found someone, and like someone mentioned early "she isn't my other half"... . she's her own whole person, and I am too.  We compliment one another, and have good healthy bond that is reciprocal of both of our needs being met.  We have boundaries, we respect one anothers boundaries, I am not emotionally blackmailed with back against the wall... . etc... . I feel like I am part of someone elses life, not responsible for it, or their actions, their behaviors, their words, their past, their sadness, etc... . Some people with BPD refuse to, or unable to realize that, or admit, or incapable of getting the real help they need... . Just to have a chance at living happier lives.  No one can tell you to be her friend or not, it is a decision that ultimately you will need to make with your own mind and heart at it's best interest.  But, I can advise you against it from my own experience... . There no real apologies coming your way, no empathy, no remorse, atleast not in the way you need that type of validation from someone you love and who says "they love you too".  Be careful, don't return yourself to a source of pain that it is unhealthy, ask yourself, "why would I want to do this"? She has been without you, and you have been without her and times in life, and this can be true moving forward. Goodluck... .
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« Reply #18 on: April 18, 2014, 01:03:18 AM »

I just want to add my thoughts to this thread John.

I've been struggling for a while now with my feelings around this too because my exuBPDbf keeps emailing me telling me he misses me and he loves me and he can't stop thinking about me.  Every time I read this it hurts me and I drift around in a daze of pain and confusion trying to work out why I still feel so much for him even though he treated me so badly.

I have figured out from thinking and from reading a lot of posts on here that the reason why I was and still am so attracted to him, so 'in love' with him, is that he responded to me exactly the way I'd always dreamt my soul mate would.  It was amazing, like magic!  The reason for this, I've learned, is that they mirror us exactly.  I projected onto him and he mirrored back what I was projecting, so he 'became' my perfect love.  We vibrated at the same pitch.  They don't really know how to love, or think they don't, so this is how they do it through necessity... .

It turns out though that this was hard for him to sustain.  He broke up with me after a week, suddenly seeming very insecure and brittle probably because of some small thing which I said or did that he felt was a sign that I didn't love him (enough).  He told me it was because he was scared because he'd had a nasty divorce and he was afraid of getting hurt again.  Then we went round again and it was all lovely again, until a week later and boom!  Wash, rinse, repeat... .  This pattern left me dazed and confused and instead of walking away, which was what every instinct I had was telling me, I got more and more hooked in by the manipulations, albeit unwitting, from him.  After a couple of months of this he settled down for a while and we had a few wonderful months with occasional blips.  But not for long the bliss... . oceans of pain were to follow.

It was the push-pull effect which had me so confused.  He would hate me one day and do and say vile things, then the next day would love me and tell me he couldn't live without me.  I was so confused and in so much pain that when it stopped, even for a few days, I was grateful and hopeful and wanted to believe that it would change.

So what I'm trying to say JT is this, we get caught on a hook, a big shiny hook, and willingly too because we project this fantasy of perfect love.  I/We are needy and lonely and deep down have longed for this person all our lives.  The reason we can ignore the obvious  red-flags which are dotted around all over the place is because we want this so badly.  

I keep going back over the same thought process roundabout.  I love him, he loves me, I was soo damn happy and he was my best friend in the world, ever.  I don't want to live without him!  Then I think about how he behaved in the last months of our r/s (actually for all of our relationship really) and I just can't physically make myself go back, my body won't do it!  Which is a blessing I can tell you.  I am so scared of the dark places I went with him.  

Each time I go round this roundabout and come out safely the other side, I'm thankful that some sense of sanity and self preservation keeps me away.  Reading what people write on this amazing site always helps me to get perspective if I'm lost.

Being friends has also offered itself as an option to us.  He often says he can't lose me and wants to just be friends.  But I ask myself whether any of my other friends have ever hurt me as deeply as he has?  And there it is, the answer is categorically, no!  So I stay away and don't respond to his messages.  Or I respond, explaining why it can never be and there is silence for a while.  He hasn't written for a while now and I'm hopeful that he has given up... .



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LA4610
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« Reply #19 on: April 18, 2014, 07:30:40 AM »

The answer to your question is... . yes, you CAN stay friends with them.

If you do, they will do nothing short of completely ruining your life.
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free-n-clear
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« Reply #20 on: April 18, 2014, 08:07:34 AM »

Why not just be friends?

   Because "friendship" with a BPDex - from their perspective - means "You keep giving me everything you always have, and I'm free to be as present in or absent from your life as suits me at any given time, with no rules, no accountability, and no matter what I do, you've already given me permission".

  That's why, JT.

  I understand exactly how you feel - I also care very much for my uBPDxgf (and her kids), and I tried the just friends thing. It doesn't work. The friendship will always be 'lopsided' - you care way more than she does, and it will only lead to continued hurt and misery.

  You don't have to stop caring, but you have to care for yourself. 
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« Reply #21 on: April 18, 2014, 08:15:54 AM »

My God Janey, i had to look left to see if i had written your post and forgotten. It is exactly my life, even all the timings of breakups. And i love LA4610 answer. I did stay friends and yes im almost completely destroyed today. I am going to print out the quote from Howzah, i just read it through twice and lightbulbs were going off everywhere.

I think i just agreed to friends to keep him from painting me too black. Made myself a martyr. My fog is lifting more and more.
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trappedinlove
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« Reply #22 on: April 18, 2014, 09:53:27 AM »

Janey, I am having goosebumps all over from reading your post.

It is very touching and right on the spot.

TIL
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winston72
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« Reply #23 on: April 18, 2014, 10:40:32 AM »

Indeed, Janey, your post is thoughtful, insightful and elegant.  It captured the struggle and angst of both of you. 

Thank you.
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Octoberfest
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« Reply #24 on: April 18, 2014, 10:52:19 AM »

Being friends has also offered itself as an option to us.  He often says he can't lose me and wants to just be friends.  But I ask myself whether any of my other friends have ever hurt me as deeply as he has?  And there it is, the answer is categorically, no! So I stay away and don't respond to his messages.  Or I respond, explaining why it can never be and there is silence for a while.  He hasn't written for a while now and I'm hopeful that he has given up... .


To add to this, if you wouldn't want to be friends with someone because of the way they treated you, why in the world would their behavior be acceptable in a romantic partner? I think it warrants taking a long, hard look at what your notion of love entails.  :)oes it entail "fighting for it" and "it not being easy" and "you can't choose who you love"?  Or is it grounded in things like mutual respect, affection, and fidelity? I'll be the first to admit that with my BPDex it was the first set of principals.
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“You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life.” - Winston Churchill
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trappedinlove
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« Reply #25 on: April 18, 2014, 12:17:32 PM »

Janey, I'm having goosebumps all over my body from reading your words.

You've described the complexity of your feelings so well and I find myself relating to almost everything you said.

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DontPanic
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« Reply #26 on: April 18, 2014, 02:17:02 PM »

It's tough to be objective when dealing with someone with BPD. the attraction is profound. only with time have I been able to step away and say... why would I ever want to be friends with someone that is as vicious as my ex-was? not just to me but to everyone around her including our children.

People with BPD are often highly capable in their chosen profession, make friends easily and are generally quite charming people until you see the other side... then look out...

for me, I often tell people that there is something really compelling about someone that is able to become exactly who you want them to be... . for a while... who wouldnt like that?

the reality is, people with BPD are like a drug, the effects are often short lived and the hangover/withdrawal can be mind blowing.

I'm an alcoholic thats been in recovery for a while and I'll tell you what I'd tell any person that walks through the doors of AA and says they want to drink. Go right ahead, we'll be here if you get back. I have yet to hear anyone here say, oh they went back to that to their BPD and life is just wonderful now, just like I've never heard anyone come in the doors of AA and say, yep I've been out there drinking and life is just grand, it just doesn't happen. the evidence is pretty astounding... that being said... tear it on up and go back to her... let us know how it goes (good or bad)
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goldylamont
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« Reply #27 on: April 18, 2014, 04:05:03 PM »

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=139516.0

Excerpt
'Can't we still be friends?' You've probably heard this everytime you've been dumped by your BPD partner, but this not about being friends at all. It is in fact part of their plan to continue to torture you even after the relationship is over. They do this byway of passive aggression.

Here's what it's really all about, so please take note of this if they have managed to get you to agree to this:

Passive aggressive attack number 1: You've been friendzoned by them; this is a passive aggressive attack to tell you, you're not worthy enough to be my partner.

Number 2: They want to really rub salt in to your tender wounds by telling you that they've already met someone else and really happy, or about a one night stand, or new sex buddy. They atypically do this on facebook, or send you the occasional text.

Number 3: They delight in taking "sympathy" when they see that you haven't found anyone yet -- 'Aww poor you. Don't worry I'm sure you will find someone soon'.

Number 4: They get a narcissistic ego boost by seeing you pine for them.

Number 5: They will occasionally mail/text you and "reminisce" over the good times, so that you will be taken back to those times and your heart will pine for them even more.

Number 6: After they'e continued to silently torture you, they will tell you that they can no longer be your friend because it's disrespectful to their new partner. And so you're completely frozen out -- just as they planned.

There you have it. Proceed at your own peril.

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BacknthSaddle
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« Reply #28 on: April 19, 2014, 10:18:48 AM »

   Because "friendship" with a BPDex - from their perspective - means "You keep giving me everything you always have, and I'm free to be as present in or absent from your life as suits me at any given time, with no rules, no accountability, and no matter what I do, you've already given me permission".

  That's why, JT.

This is right on, and I just have a quick anecdote to add along these lines.  After about a month I foolishly broke NC a couple of days ago, although I think doing so in the context of having joined this board really opened my eyes.  We talked, she made me feel crappy about myself, said she "just wanted to be friends," told me about romantic encounters I didn't ask about, etc.  No surprises.  Didn't here from her the next day.  So far no surprises.

Today, she texts me in the morning.  I'm a physician and she is a nurse.  She texts to tell me that she has a UTI, explains to me how she thinks she got it (unnecessary), and asks if I will call in prescription for her so she doesn't have to go to urgent care.  Maybe some of you have done this with physician friends in the past, it's pretty typical, but doctors and nurses are trained from the beginning never to do this, that it is unethical to prescribe without examining a patient, and so she knew I would say no.  I slept in and so didn't get her text until an hour and a half later.  Said I wasn't comfortable doing it.  She said it was ok, that she was at the doctor now, and then preceded to guilt me ("I was just in so much pain, feeling desperate, but I knew you wouldn't do it, thanks) even though she was already at the doctor

This is all by way of saying: I am her "friend" only insofar as I meet her needs, no matter how unreasonable.  There is no content to the relationship beyond that.  And THAT is not a friend that I need in my life.  Thanks to these boards, I understand that much better now. 
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BorisAcusio
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« Reply #29 on: April 19, 2014, 12:02:57 PM »

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=139516.0

Excerpt
'Can't we still be friends?' You've probably heard this everytime you've been dumped by your BPD partner, but this not about being friends at all. It is in fact part of their plan to continue to torture you even after the relationship is over. They do this byway of passive aggression.

Here's what it's really all about, so please take note of this if they have managed to get you to agree to this:

Passive aggressive attack number 1: You've been friendzoned by them; this is a passive aggressive attack to tell you, you're not worthy enough to be my partner.

Number 2: They want to really rub salt in to your tender wounds by telling you that they've already met someone else and really happy, or about a one night stand, or new sex buddy. They atypically do this on facebook, or send you the occasional text.

Number 3: They delight in taking "sympathy" when they see that you haven't found anyone yet -- 'Aww poor you. Don't worry I'm sure you will find someone soon'.

Number 4: They get a narcissistic ego boost by seeing you pine for them.

Number 5: They will occasionally mail/text you and "reminisce" over the good times, so that you will be taken back to those times and your heart will pine for them even more.

Number 6: After they'e continued to silently torture you, they will tell you that they can no longer be your friend because it's disrespectful to their new partner. And so you're completely frozen out -- just as they planned.

There you have it. Proceed at your own peril.


Well, I think they are less malicious in intent. Mine was using me and her ex hubby when she needed something. It could be soothing, validation, dealing with suicide threats or taking care legal problems she couldn't deal with. It's not reciprocal. There is no concern about you, only what you can provide.
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