my "stretchable" boundaries

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

Taking inventory of my own personality I would say my "defuse" boundaries (energetically as well as emotionally) have been an issue in all stages of my life and in all aspects (eg during my childhood, at school, in my job, ... . ) I even experience it with my cats  

I've spent most of my life in an isolated position (because I genuinely like to spend time alone but also because it has always been my "solution" to avoid boundary-problems, when I was a child growing up with 3 younger brothers and sister I used to lock myself up in my room to protect myself from their noice and attention-seeking and I have been doing this ever since).

So during the last 20 years I have spent many years (relatively) happily living on my own with my two cats, having a boyfriend passing by once in a while (usually BPD-style bfs, and as such those r/s were intense but didn't last very long).

Now back to the cats... . ever since I was a kid I happen to have a strong allergy towards

cats, including eccessive sneezing, a running nose, red eyes, even breathing problems when it's at it's worst :-(

Yet, one day my BPD-roommate, who worked his way into my place for a couple of months, brought in this cute tiny kitty, completely neglecting the fact that I was allergic, saying he would keep the cat in his room.

Ofcourse this didn't work out, the cat didn't like the guy that much and kept on crawling back to me, using all her charms to win my heart, and so my little princess came in my life and never left... .  

I kind of learned to deal with my allergy (mind power is a strong thing) but I'm still not completely resistent, and later on came a second cat, this time by my own choice, out of pity because it was abandoned by the mother.

Exactly the same way I saw my BPD-bfs sneaking into my life... .  

Although I knew from the beginning something was wrong, and although I didn't quite like to share my house with them, they managed to come in anyway, being so cute and charming and persistant  . And although I am allergic to BPd-manners like raging, fighting, arguing, alcoholism (all of this caracteristics that I hated about my dad) and I can't stand people that try to dominate or control me still I find myself attracted to them and they sense that, no doubt.

Now about my "stretchable" boundaries... . Ever since the cats came into my life I made it a clear rule that they cannot enter my sleeping room (they love to sleep next to my head on my pillow, almost choking me with their furs   ).

So they sleep in the attic, still they have never ever given up their attempts to invade my bedroom: every  morning they come to scratch my door to get in, and every morning I have to fight my urge to let them in for a cuddling-session  

And I must admit: sometimes (maybe once out of ten) I give in and let them come in for a while, just because I'm so fed up with my own boundaries and I just want to enjoy their over-enthousiastic behaviours when they finally can enter the forbidden zone  

This "stretchable" boundaries are an issue with my BPD-friend as well, I'm doing my best to stay straight, keep the strenght to say NO all the time, but sometimes (not often) I do give in, sometimes I'm so fed up with it that I just think "what the heck", let's have some fun... .

It's just not in my nature to be so rigid, I'm more the "go with the flow" type, I take things like they come, I'm  flexible, I don't mind taking a risk now and then and if something goes wrong it will not knock me down completely, I will raise again as I've always done.

But I wonder if this can be harmful for my BP, I read somewhere that "giving in " to your boundaries is even worse than setting no boundaries, it triggers them even more.



Can someone adjust to this, is it really such a mistake ?

How do you manage to always keep the lines tight ?

[lemon flower]

Taking inventory of my own personality I would say my "defuse" boundaries (energetically as well as emotionally) have been an issue in all stages of my life and in all aspects (eg during my childhood, at school, in my job, ... . ) I even experience it with my cats  

I've spent most of my life in an isolated position (because I genuinely like to spend time alone but also because it has always been my "solution" to avoid boundary-problems, when I was a child growing up with 3 younger brothers and sister I used to lock myself up in my room to protect myself from their noice and attention-seeking and I have been doing this ever since).

So during the last 20 years I have spent many years (relatively) happily living on my own with my two cats, having a boyfriend passing by once in a while (usually BPD-style bfs, and as such those r/s were intense but didn't last very long).

Now back to the cats... . ever since I was a kid I happen to have a strong allergy towards

cats, including eccessive sneezing, a running nose, red eyes, even breathing problems when it's at it's worst :-(

Yet, one day my BPD-roommate, who worked his way into my place for a couple of months, brought in this cute tiny kitty, completely neglecting the fact that I was allergic, saying he would keep the cat in his room.

Ofcourse this didn't work out, the cat didn't like the guy that much and kept on crawling back to me, using all her charms to win my heart, and so my little princess came in my life and never left... .  

I kind of learned to deal with my allergy (mind power is a strong thing) but I'm still not completely resistent, and later on came a second cat, this time by my own choice, out of pity because it was abandoned by the mother.

Exactly the same way I saw my BPD-bfs sneaking into my life... .  

Although I knew from the beginning something was wrong, and although I didn't quite like to share my house with them, they managed to come in anyway, being so cute and charming and persistant  . And although I am allergic to BPd-manners like raging, fighting, arguing, alcoholism (all of this caracteristics that I hated about my dad) and I can't stand people that try to dominate or control me still I find myself attracted to them and they sense that, no doubt.

Now about my "stretchable" boundaries... . Ever since the cats came into my life I made it a clear rule that they cannot enter my sleeping room (they love to sleep next to my head on my pillow, almost choking me with their furs   ).

So they sleep in the attic, still they have never ever given up their attempts to invade my bedroom: every  morning they come to scratch my door to get in, and every morning I have to fight my urge to let them in for a cuddling-session  

And I must admit: sometimes (maybe once out of ten) I give in and let them come in for a while, just because I'm so fed up with my own boundaries and I just want to enjoy their over-enthousiastic behaviours when they finally can enter the forbidden zone  

This "stretchable" boundaries are an issue with my BPD-friend as well, I'm doing my best to stay straight, keep the strenght to say NO all the time, but sometimes (not often) I do give in, sometimes I'm so fed up with it that I just think "what the heck", let's have some fun... .

It's just not in my nature to be so rigid, I'm more the "go with the flow" type, I take things like they come, I'm  flexible, I don't mind taking a risk now and then and if something goes wrong it will not knock me down completely, I will raise again as I've always done.

But I wonder if this can be harmful for my BP, I read somewhere that "giving in " to your boundaries is even worse than setting no boundaries, it triggers them even more.



Can someone adjust to this, is it really such a mistake ?

How do you manage to always keep the lines tight ?

[waverider]

Boundaries have to be extremely important issues that affect your welfare to reduce this temptation. Rather than just for things that you would "prefer" not to do. That way giving is not seen as a "luxury".

Giving in to boundary transgressions, is intermittent reinforcement. It teaches someone that if they hammer away long enough you may give in. This is akin to gambling machines giving the occasional payouts, just to feed the "winning is possible' feeling in the punters.

Before setting a boundary be perfectly clear in your mind why you are setting it. It is not the same as goal setting, where best effort is good enough, and absolute compliance not essential.

Boundaries usually result in extinction bursts as they are tested. If you provide intermittent reinforcement these extinction burst last far longer

[lemon flower]

exactly, "intermittent reinforcement" is what I have been reading about... .

thank you for this explanation!

still, it stays very difficult to keep them up all the time, the only thing I can do is returning to the original "term of condition" I have been setting up and trying to keep straight the next time,

doing my best... .

[Grey Kitty]

I'm not sure that cats learn from your boundary enforcement, even if it is consistent. For example, I think when you teach a cat not to go on the kitchen counter, you are actually teaching them not to go on the kitchen counter when you are looking--they are literal learners like that. I miss my cat and miss having cats.

But when working with people (BPD or not), do make sure that your enforceable boundaries are indeed important ones based on what you really value. If you set harsh boundaries for unimportant things, you behave like a dictator, rather than a good assertive person.

[lemon flower]

well, I'm sure my boundaries are not about unimportant matters, but my BP is a very stubborn and an unwilling student :-(

a good example is smoking inside the house.

I'm a no-smoker and I hate the smell of cigarettes in my home, and when people smoke right beside me it irritates my eyes

my BP smokes constantly, both cigarettes and joints.

when we were still a couple I allready tried to set "reasonable" boundaries, trying to divide my place into smoking and no-smoking areas, which is  allready a huge favour to him because what I really prefer is no smoking inside at all, nowhere, but OK, I didn't want to behave like a dictator, so I gave him permission to smoke in the bathroom, in the attic, and in the living room if he agrees to smoke next to the fireplace.

He absolutely cannot smoke in my dining room, in the bedroom and the kitchen, that's not too much asked for, isn't it ?

well, not to him, we had countless arguments on it, because "nothing beats the feeling of smoking when laying in bed"   This WHILE HE HAD HIS OWN HOUSE BURNED DOWN IN A FIRE AFTER FALLING ASLEEP (STONED) WITH A BURNING CIG... . I'm not joking on this, it was in the lokal  newspapers a couple of years ago... . wellcome to BP-world, sigh

[Grey Kitty]

That's not boundary enforcement; that's a rule.

The difference is that he chooses whether to follow or break the rule. [and pwBPD usually choose to break them]

Boundary enforcement is an action you can take to protect yourself, where he has no input on it.

Unfortunately for you, the enforcement mechanisims I can think of regarding smoking indoors would be to refuse to allow him in your house if he does, or break up with him if he smokes inside. Both of which are pretty harsh, and I would understand your reluctance to go to that level.

[lemon flower]

ok, I can see the difference 

I guess my "rules" are not always boundaries, although it was meant to "protect" myself and as a demand for some respect 

he should know the consequence will be getting me mad or irritated, which he will take as me being unreasonable and intolerant, and he will either try to make it up by some kind of compensation ( a hug, a vague sorry, a short moment of being nice and going to smoke outside) or he will start complaining how unwanted and unwelcome he is, and how little he means to me... .

I guess the only boundaries I can set here, is what I have already been doing for months, and that is to limit the time we spend together, and ofcourse this is not solely because of the smoking issues... .

[Grey Kitty]

Part of the confusion is two different usages of the word boundary.

The wider definition of boundary refers to the distinction between self and other, usually in the context of somebody "crossing your boundary." (i.e. smoking in the non-smoking zone of your house)

What we refer to as boundary enforcement here is an action you take to protect yourself after a person crosses that sort of boundary.

In the case of smoking in your home... . you can make rules and that doesn't work very well as you have noticed. If you try to enforce that as a boundary, there aren't reasonable and appropriate enforcement actions. Some things just aren't solved well by boundary enforcement. Others like leaving the situation when verbal abuse occurs are very effective.

[waverider]

A boundary enforcement is an action you take to prevent your exposure to the offending action. It does not require the action or compliance of the other party.

This does make defining boundaries and their consequences difficult to define.

The consequences will often cause the other person to get angry. This is the reason we have a "safety fuse" boundary of not staying for abuse as the fall back position.

Unfortunately having boundaries will mean acting like a dictator over your boundaries.

eg smoking in out of limits areas could mean you discard all cigarettes, this will make him angry, you do not put up with anger so you fall back on he is not welcome in your home.

This is hard I know, but he will have to choose between smoking anywhere he likes, or living with you. If he chooses the latter you win, if he chooses the former then that in itself says something. There will be a whole lot of drama in the meantime, but that comes with having boundaries. You already have drama, so it may as well be about something worthwhile.

[Lucky Jim]

Hi triss, I find this discussion extremely interesting, because I, too, am a go-with-the-flow kind of person and had a lot of trouble setting boundaries in the context of marriage to a pwBPD.  I had to become fierce about defending them, because my BPDxW had no respect for my boundaries.  For example, I refused to discuss serious issues at night after my Ex had become intoxicated.  I insisted that we postpone those discussions until morning, after she had sobered up.  But she would become angry and belligerent when I refused to have those late-night conversations, so I spent a lot of time going for midnight walks around the neighborhood and sleeping on the couch when I returned to a locked bedroom.  Not fun.  Now that we're divorced it's easier to stand firm, because she's not my spouse anymore.  LuckyJim

[lemon flower]

What I find very tiring is that he's always trying to negotiate about things:

" if you let me smoke inside I will massage your feet"

" if your ceiling gets yellow I will repaint it"

or he will come with arguments:

"this is definitely the last bag of weed I will ever buy so let me smoke my very last joint here in the bed"  

sure... .    still, usually this is the point where I start to give in: since he can be so convinced of something himself (he really really really will quit blowing), it would be very demotivating if I would answer with disbelief, so I let him "ritually" smoke the last one ever... . inside  

arguing and negotiating is his way to "solve" many things, and he's quite good at it, he can be so convincing... .

[waverider]

The problem with this negotiating is they are only concerned with the here and now, and so are willing to promise anything to meet the need of now. The promise of compensation for letting the boundary down often slides. You feel "had", the resentment grows.

[Sunny Side]

The problem with this negotiating is they are only concerned with the here and now, and so are willing to promise anything to meet the need of now. The promise of compensation for letting the boundary down often slides. You feel "had", the resentment grows.

Great point, waverider.  In my case it was extremely self-damaging to feel as though I allowed my own boundaries and limits to operate on a sliding scale.  In hindsight it's interesting to try to understand just how indifferent to boundaries most pwBPD's are. 

[Grey Kitty]

You said it yourself--you let the boundaries stretch. As long as your bf thinks you will do, he'll keep trying.

This won't help with the weed (wait, he said it was the last he would buy   ), but has he considered e-cigarettes? It isn't too clear how much healthier they would be for him... . but they sure do remove the issue of second hand smoke!

[Louise7777]

" if you let me smoke inside I will massage your feet"

This looks like an attempt of control. Seems to me he is just looking for ways to have his way in your house (Im assuming its your house and he moved in). First of all, its YOUR house and he should have respect for your rules. Im very territorial, granted, but I dont think this is healthy, this constant negociating on un-negociable things has to be draining.

He looks like an annoying child to me, who keeps begging and begging until mommy gives in... . I may be completely off, but I get the feeling you have the responsability and he has the role of a teenager or even child... .

[lemon flower]

" if you let me smoke inside I will massage your feet"

This looks like an attempt of control. Seems to me he is just looking for ways to have his way in your house (Im assuming its your house and he moved in). First of all, its YOUR house and he should have respect for your rules. Im very territorial, granted, but I dont think this is healthy, this constant negociating on un-negociable things has to be draining.

He looks like an annoying child to me, who keeps begging and begging until mommy gives in... . I may be completely off, but I get the feeling you have the responsability and he has the role of a teenager or even child... .

all true; I definitely took the role of "mommy"... . I am 10 years older to start with and it's a pattern that I recognise from previous r/ships... .

but I no longer have a romantic r/s with him, we split up 6 months ago and are seeing eachother now as friends (more or less, it is not exactly a "normal" friendship but that's another topic... )

when we were having a r/s (and I didn't know about the BPD) he did came living in my house and I still can't believe how he made a ruin of my house: not only we had all these fights about smoking (and lots of other topics, basically all about a huge lack of respect towards my way of life) but also he produced an enormous amount of rubbish everywhere and I found overloaded ashtrays and cigarettebuds on the strangest places, including under the bed  

well, let's say this happy r/s didn't last long  

but looking back at it, if his behaviours hadn't been so extreme (in everything) I probably would have been stucked much longer to the r/s... . apparently I needed a VERY low-functioning, socially totally inadaptive person in my life to finally get my eyes opened  

not much later I found an article about BPD and now I realise that I have spend almost all my adult r/ships with pwBPD or similar... . (but none of them so "full blown" as the last one)

[lemon flower]

You said it yourself--you let the boundaries stretch. As long as your bf thinks you will do, he'll keep trying.

This won't help with the weed (wait, he said it was the last he would buy   ), but has he considered e-cigarettes? It isn't too clear how much healthier they would be for him... . but they sure do remove the issue of second hand smoke!

yes, we have allready been talking about e-cigarettes, he agreed to try it... . but these days he agrees to everything as long as he can spent some time with me... . he took a 180° u-turn in his behaviors lately, but I know better now  

[clljhns]

Hi triss,

Very interesting topic. I was wondering about why you really gave in to the "no smoking in house" policy? I am thinking about times in my life when I had a certain policy or rule and when I allowed it to be disregarded. Notice I said that I allowed it. I am reminded of my second H who had a close personal relationship with his alcohol. I had a rule that there would be no alcohol in the house, because I didn't want this around my daughter. He honored this to some extent. He wouldn't come in the house with the alcohol, but would sit outside and get drunk. A technicality that I felt completely incapable of addressing. My thoughts at the time were to allow this, after all, he was a responsible guy in a lot of other areas. He had a good job, and took care of his debts. Wow. Now that I am writing this, seems kind of sad that I can only identify two areas of his life that were positive. He was also a very emotionally unavailable person. I can tell you that I stayed in the marriage as a trade-off. I knew that I could not provide the kind of life-style we had for my daughter on my own. Sad reason, but the truth. I bargained with my boundaries and rationalized why I needed to give in to his blatant disrespect of myself and my daughter. I even thought that if I just talked with calmly (obviously not when he was drinking) that he would have a moment of conscience and feel contrite about his actions. I really fantasized that he would exclaim "I love you both too much to hurt you this way!" Of course this didn't happen, and we stayed in a stale-mate situation for many years. Me not enforcing my boundary of respect, and him not caring if a boundary had been encroached. We pretty much became roommates in the last five years of our marriage. Nothing ever changed. He continued to drink to the point of getting drunk and becoming obnoxious. I also rationalized that since he never was a violent drunk, I could accept the drinking.

The bottom line for me was this was a trade-off. I truly believe that my FOO set the example for ignoring my boundaries and my needs. I learned from my mom that you stay in a relationship with a man you hate because you are too weak to try to be on your own.

I don't know if any of this resonates with you, but I thought I would offer a different perspective, just a possibility, mind you. 

Peace and blessings 

[waverider]

Thanks for sharing that clljhns, I am sure that resonates with many of us.

It is hard to be completely firm with boundaries, but at least we can identify when we are slacking just to keep the peace, or even to delude ourselves, it is a flag that we need to pay more attention to the bigger picture

[Louise7777]

Thiss, re-reading my post I think it sounded harsh. Im sorry.

I guess Im angry myself for letting the PDs do so much damage, so when I see it somewhere it triggers me. I dont know how I endured abuse from relatives for so long. And Im still dealing with a uBPD person who joined others to gang up against me. It was terrible.

Seems to me we need stronger boundaries and a change in attitude. Our empathy, our understanding nods seem like an authorization to them.

If your romantic r/s is over, I hope he moves so you can have a more peaceful life. Wish u the best.

[waverider]

Seems to me we need stronger boundaries and a change in attitude. Our empathy, our understanding nods seem like an authorization to them.

This pretty well sums it up, having stronger boundaries and a change in attitude, unfortunately does take a long time to evolve, as it involves a core personality change on our part.

Validating the invalid is also a real issue. Even when we are first learning about validation, we tend to throw it around like a "cure all' response. I found it more effective when I concentrated more on trying not to be invalidating instead. That way if you are unsure you say nothing and stay neutral. Positive validation is then more likely to be used appropriately rather than just as a blanket default response which backs you into a corner.

Also try to use "I hear you" instead of " I understand". Hearing is not invalidating, whereas to say you understand can be invalidating as ether they know, or believe, you don't (and therefore are BS them). Alternatively it can be taken as a green light that they are right, and you just ducked the bullet for now, and can come back at you later as they claim you changed your mind. How many times have you heard "I thought you understood, you obviously dont give a ... . , and don't care about me"? In response you gush out more inappropriate validation thinking you are doing the right thing, and it just gets worse.

[Sunny Side]

Validating the invalid is also a real issue. Even when we are first learning about validation, we tend to throw it around like a "cure all' response. I found it more effective when I concentrated more on trying not to be invalidating instead. That way if you are unsure you say nothing and stay neutral. Positive validation is then more likely to be used appropriately rather than just as a blanket default response which backs you into a corner.

Great insight, waverider.  In general, validation is a terrific tool to foster empathy and improve active listening and one I was thankful to add to my interpersonal toolbelt.  In trying to understand how important it is for others to be heard it also made me aware if how important it is that I be heard as well.  Used in conjunction the two engender trust and mutual respect, that good stuff we all want in an r/s. 

I also realized in my BPD r/s that "validating the invalid" (if I understand your meaning correctly, waverider) with my uBPDex was something I could not sincerely continue to do (a boundary of my own perhaps?).  Done repeatedly and over time (i.e. minute-by-minute, hour-by-hour and day-by-day in a BPD r/s) it started to feel terribly inauthentic to my core personality, which in turn became invalidating for me! 

[waverider]

I also realized in my BPD r/s that "validating the invalid" (if I understand your meaning correctly, waverider) with my uBPDex was something I could not sincerely continue to do (a boundary of my own perhaps?).  Done repeatedly and over time (i.e. minute-by-minute, hour-by-hour and day-by-day in a BPD r/s) it started to feel terribly inauthentic to my core personality, which in turn became invalidating for me! 

Exactly and if thrown around indiscriminately it looses its currency and becomes expected... You become the proverbial "yes person" propping up a fragile ego.

People management tools are very powerful things when used correctly,. If you simply use them to stay out of immediate trouble they loose their effectiveness. So when using them also ask yourself "why am I using this/saying this?". Its just a double check to see if its appropriate.

[lemon flower]

Thiss, re-reading my post I think it sounded harsh. Im sorry.

I guess Im angry myself for letting the PDs do so much damage, so when I see it somewhere it triggers me. I dont know how I endured abuse from relatives for so long. And Im still dealing with a uBPD person who joined others to gang up against me. It was terrible.

Seems to me we need stronger boundaries and a change in attitude. Our empathy, our understanding nods seem like an authorization to them.

If your romantic r/s is over, I hope he moves so you can have a more peaceful life. Wish u the best.

that's ok, you had a very good point there, and as I am getting a clearer view in my own behaviours I start to see WHY I always end up with this kind of men... .

it's not only about being too empatic or too nice, and it's not only about defuse boundaries, I guess I have some kind of an attachment problem myself too: I think some part of me is afraid to commit to a mature, adult relationship which is why I choose for either "unreachable" guys or guys who are so difficult, problematic and immature that there is no future with them anyway... .

maybe I am just better on my own ?

or maybe I should fight certain fears in myself in order to take a next step ?

I read somewhere that people who always take care of others do this so that they don't have to bother to take care of themselves... . I guess that's me 

[lemon flower]

Hi triss,

Very interesting topic. was wondering about why you really gave in to the "no smoking in house" policy ? I am thinking about times in my life when I had a certain policy or rule and when I allowed it to be disregarded. Notice I said that I allowed it. 

The bottom line for me was this was a trade-off. I truly believe that my FOO set the example for ignoring my boundaries and my needs. I learned from my mom that you stay in a relationship with a man you hate because you are too weak to try to be on your own.

I don't know if any of this resonates with you, but I thought I would offer a different perspective, just a possibility, mind you. 

Peace and blessings 

I didn't really give in but I lessered the rules: as in: allowing him to smoke in certain, specifically pointed out areas, eg the bathroom... . I thought it would be a compromise which would be reasonable to both of us. And in general he keeps to it, but ofcourse the "begging" and negotiating continues, and I am to blame for that myself as I have not always been consequent.

But as Louise mentioned, he really acts like a child, or a cat, who would scratch the door anyway, just because she wants to have it her way and scratching is fun 

But smoking is just an example, now that he no longer lives with me it's not such a big deal anyway, still the mechanism goes on in many dynamics between us, and I need to puzzle out how to protect myself better... .

this is why I have asked for a private consultation with his social assistent myself, I want to keep my promise to some kind of commitment towards him because he really needs support, but I do not want to be the only one to drag him out of the mud again and again... .

I am willing to be some kind of mother for him, but it can't be a full-time job 

[Sunny Side]

I am willing to be some kind of mother for him, but it can't be a full-time job 

Hi Triss, your comment made me think.  As with many pwBPD's part of my ex's coping is to attract and attach to 'rescuers' who will parent her.  I became one of those rescuers and became another 'good object' parental figure to her.  My ex is a 45 year old woman with two young children (D11, S10).  While at first this parenting dynamic felt comfortable to me -- it appealed to my sense that I was loving, supporting and helping her grow -- it actually undermined any real sense that we could have a functional relationship as true adult partners. 

Early in the r/s (maybe 5 months into a 14 month r/s) and before I knew about BPD her and I started to discuss boundaries and I recall writing out a list of values and boundaries and she said she would do the same. 

Among the things I wrote at the time:

"I want to be with a woman who is responsible for her own needs and does not expect others to maintain them."

"I want to be with a woman who wants to be an adult."

"I want to be with a woman who believes in the equality of both partners."

"I do not want to be with a woman who is looking for another father. I want an equal partner."

Looking at what I wrote then it seems I already understood the emerging dysfunctional dynamic (and there were many already!) in our relationship and that it was unhealthy for both of us.  More importantly, I realize that I was not acting like an equal partner in the relationship either.  Though it felt good (at first) to think I was offering the love, counsel and wisdom of a supportive partner, I realized it was as much about my attempts to control her behavior which did not feel good then, or now, to admit.

I was absolutely devoted to the distorted idea that by 'helping her grow and mature' that we could have an incredible, supporting, trusting and understanding relationship with an unbreakable bond that was forged through:

Solving problems (i.e. me solving problems for her and not allowing her to learn to problem solve for herself)

Building trust (i.e. teaching her what trust was in effect removing her from the adult responsibility to determine this for herself)

Helping her to become a better parent (i.e. removing the responsibility for her to learn what this is for herself)

Helping her to manage her emotions (i.e. controlling her)

In short I was not helping her, or myself, but doing the exact opposite.  I was hurting us both.  It's been very humbling and uncomfortable for me to admit that in thinking I could support her this way that I myself was not acting like a healthy, functional adult who wanted to be in a relationship with an equal.  It's okay though because it's allowed me to reassess and relearn some important concepts going forward about what type of r/s I would like to live in and what type of person I need to be in order to do it.   Life is a process, yes? 

So in your case, Triss, when you say "I am willing to be some kind of mother to him", have you thought what this means to you? 

[Lucky Jim]

Hey Sunny Side, It sounds like the handwriting was already on the Wall when you wrote down your list of what you were looking for in a r/s.  I could have written the same list regarding my BPDxW and suspect many others in a r/s with a pwBPD have entertained the same thoughts.  Thanks, LJ

[Louise7777]

Hi again, Triss. Im glad you didnt get offended.

I think you got some great advice here. Id just add a detail: BPDs can look very defenseless or unable to do things, but thats not true. At least  thats what I have seen in mine. They avoid certain tasks/ responsabilities, waiting for somebody to jump in and do them. If it doesnt happen, they use their skills to play victim, helpless, until some good soul (enabling/ rescuer) comes along and does the task.

It may sound mean, but I dont see my BPDs sharing good stuff. They only delegate whats boring, annoying or unpleasant. When left on their own, they do it. But of course its easier when you have a "servant".

I personally wouldnt worry about your exbf. He disrespected you and he should be an adult and face life without using women as clutches. Sorry, Im blunt again, but I feel you´ll end up drained by him (as many people have, around my BPDs). Of course its your call, but I believe you´d be much better focusing on you and your needs and spending energy on your life. Wish you the best.

[waverider]

I am willing to be some kind of mother for him, but it can't be a full-time job 

Hi Triss, your comment made me think.  As with many pwBPD's part of my ex's coping is to attract and attach to 'rescuers' who will parent her.  I became one of those rescuers and became another 'good object' parental figure to her.  My ex is a 45 year old woman with two young children (D11, S10).  While at first this parenting dynamic felt comfortable to me -- it appealed to my sense that I was loving, supporting and helping her grow -- it actually undermined any real sense that we could have a functional relationship as true adult partners. 

Early in the r/s (maybe 5 months into a 14 month r/s) and before I knew about BPD her and I started to discuss boundaries and I recall writing out a list of values and boundaries and she said she would do the same. 

Among the things I wrote at the time:

"I want to be with a woman who is responsible for her own needs and does not expect others to maintain them."

"I want to be with a woman who wants to be an adult."

"I want to be with a woman who believes in the equality of both partners."

"I do not want to be with a woman who is looking for another father. I want an equal partner."

Looking at what I wrote then it seems I already understood the emerging dysfunctional dynamic (and there were many already!) in our relationship and that it was unhealthy for both of us.  More importantly, I realize that I was not acting like an equal partner in the relationship either.  Though it felt good (at first) to think I was offering the love, counsel and wisdom of a supportive partner, I realized it was as much about my attempts to control her behavior which did not feel good then, or now, to admit.

I was absolutely devoted to the distorted idea that by 'helping her grow and mature' that we could have an incredible, supporting, trusting and understanding relationship with an unbreakable bond that was forged through:

Solving problems (i.e. me solving problems for her and not allowing her to learn to problem solve for herself)

Building trust (i.e. teaching her what trust was in effect removing her from the adult responsibility to determine this for herself)

Helping her to become a better parent (i.e. removing the responsibility for her to learn what this is for herself)

Helping her to manage her emotions (i.e. controlling her)

In short I was not helping her, or myself, but doing the exact opposite.  I was hurting us both.  It's been very humbling and uncomfortable for me to admit that in thinking I could support her this way that I myself was not acting like a healthy, functional adult who wanted to be in a relationship with an equal.  It's okay though because it's allowed me to reassess and relearn some important concepts going forward about what type of r/s I would like to live in and what type of person I need to be in order to do it.   Life is a process, yes? 

So in your case, Triss, when you say "I am willing to be some kind of mother to him", have you thought what this means to you? 

Enabling neediness is a well meaning mistake many of us have made. It digs an enormous hole with slippery sides that is very difficult to climb out of.

As you probably realize your original list of "wants" were not boundaries at all, simply unenforceable demands. Unfortunately being thoughtful people ourselves we naively think by stating them they may be taken on board and be acted upon.

My partner too suffers from a complete lack of willingness to "save" herself, she is constantly appealing for others to do it for her. Then sabotaging their attempts until they give up. Round it goes.

[Sunny Side]

As you probably realize your original list of "wants" were not boundaries at all, simply unenforceable demands.

Absolutely.  I still feel rotten realizing this was what I was doing but subconsciously I understand my motivation.  The control was an attempt to both to fight off the crazy-making effects of her own controlling dysregulated behaviors -- the constant chaos -- as well as my self-deluding attempt to keep the fantasy bond alive.  "I must not let the relationship die or I lose myself!"

My partner too suffers from a complete lack of willingness to "save" herself, she is constantly appealing for others to do it for her. Then sabotaging their attempts until they give up. Round it goes.

Do you have firm boundaries in place for yourself or do you find yourself becoming "stretchable" too?