3 kids - guess how many scape goats.

[HappyChappy]

I'm newish to this and would value your experience. My childhood was a war zone, it really was purgatory. Always big violent arguments, kicked off by my BPD Mom or my older GC Bro who’s also a Covert N (a nasty one at that).

My sister's approach was to hide, and being a girl had my Dad's protection. I being a boy - had to take a regular beating (mostly physiological), so I tended to keep out of the house for as long as possible. This in a way saved me, as I formed excellent friendships and grew through friends rather than family. My sister stayed at home and never really made friends. She's always expected too much and gave to little (in my opinion).

Here's my question. I was clearly the scapegoat and my GC bro clearly the favourite. But how does triangulation work with 3 kids? Is it one GC and 2 scapegoats? My guess would be my sis has status above me, but still a scapegoat.

Now I realise, that we had our roles in the BPD family, but can we easily change these. But I’ve decided I'm no longer prepared to enter into one way relationships. It’s not done me any good in my BPD family and I’ve never had this imbalance outside that twisted wreck.

So when my Dad dies (not long now) I expect I'll go incommunicado. I expect the N’s will harangue me rather than do anything themselves. My sis will be useless as usual. Anyone got a good plan? Can our roles change, or is it set by the BPD and CN? What a chump I’ve been – never again !

[HappyChappy]

Tumbleweed blowing across a desert.

[veronica lodge]

From what I've read, the roles are usually Golden Child, Scape Goat and Lost Child.  Everyone can be in any role at any one time, depending on how the "director" casts you all.  You can look the definitions up on the internet, the Scape Goat apparently gets blamed for everything and usually has low self esteem and the Lost Child is the forgotton one but apparently is the luckiest of all because they tend to grow outside the family (could you be the Lost Child?).  Your roles can change at any time.

[isshebpd]

Can roles change?

Yes. For instance, if the GC suddenly is no longer meeting the needs or following the instructions of the borderline parent. I've watched my former GC brother fall in status lately.

But you can't do anything about it, I suspect.

[HappyChappy]

Veronica lodge - thanks, never realised there was a "Lost child". That would explain my sis, she was isolated and ignored. Thanks for the feedback.

In my wife's family we have noted her sister has gone from main scapegoat to higher status. But she work hard to get there. And the GC wans't doing as she was told.

Is it unusual or common for two victums of Narcissum to marry ? We kind of share the same hates, and likes so it seams like an obvious match.

[veronica lodge]

Hi Happy Chappy, I read that it's actually common for people that have a narc parent to actually end up with a narc partner themselves later on in life, which is interesting.  Both of my husband's brothers have ended up with narc women (MIL is a narc/ BPD). The fact that you have found a partner that is the opposite is fantastic because you can live a normal life together, beyond the narcissism. 

The roles can definitely change, my husband and I went from the outcasts (Scape Goat) to Golden Child (when the others were not meeting her needs) to just recently, Scape Goat again.  She is a so predictable now that I impress myself with what I foresee. 

[HappyChappy]

Hey Veronica,

Thanks for the feedback. I have notice my Mom still clings to her first born, who is a Cover Narcissist. Yet his behaviour has been appalling - I mean really appalling. Punched my Dad when he was a pensioner. Narcissistic rage every time he didn't automatically get preferential treatment. He must have the biggest plate of food, sit at the head of the table and no one can ask him questions, without verbal abuse coming back. He screams at my BPD Mom, if his food isn't on the table when he said it should be.

My Dad has said often, he doesn't want to see him anymore. But my BPD Mom insists they must always do as he says "because he's my son." When he punched my 7 year old kid, and latter pushed his head in a plate of gravy (for licking it). My BPD was on his side - saying my kid was asking for it! We simply all walked out of the meal, and left the 2 N's. Latter, I was asked to apologies to my Bro for rudely walk out. After all, my son just reminds my N bro of how irritating I was as a child (not). Their arguments are so desperate at times. I'm guessing it’s because they are pathological, way up the scale.

I've been the one that has visited my Mom, supported and helped people in the family (as has my Dad). Yet me and my Dad have been treated lick ___. Maybe I need to become more N like. Unhelpful and obnoxious, and I may move towards the GC status? Or maybe I should realise, my best relationships in life have all been outside the family and go NC.

[veronica lodge]

Hi Happy Chappy, I am so sorry to hear that your child was punched and that his head was pushed into his plate (that is unbelievable!) and I am also sorry to hear that you were not supported and were asked to apologise to your brother.  It is so frustrating, especially when you try to be good and to help them and be there for them.  I can truly relate to your situation because my husband and I are the ones that have always tried to help his udBPDMother but she only wants to know us when the other two brothers are in her bad books.  They treat her like crap most of the time but when all of a sudden they give her some attention, she dumps us and treats us like SH*T too.  These people can never sustain healthy relationships, it will always be a roller coaster ride and sometimes we have to just step off.  I think you are spot on by saying that maybe you need to realise that your best relationships are actually outside of your family.  It is sad, because family is family but what do you do when you are constantly being abused?  Sometimes I find that I can't really talk to anyone about her condition (aside from my husband) because other people just don't understand (other than others that are going through the same thing).  You have us Happy Chappy, we are here to listen and help.  I am really grateful for this forum, it helps me vent how I feel too.

[Josette Collins]

  Hi Everyone, Josette here.  Veronica, I never realized there could be three in the quotient either.  I never heard of the 'lost child'.  That must have been myself also.  HappyChappy, so happy to see you on here too      And HappyChappy, these borderlines are so unpredictable!  I usually fluctuated almost day to day with either being the 'golden child' or the 'lost child'.  I was usually never the black sheep, that was my middle sister.  She was the spirited one in the family so of course she was always in hot water.  My baby brother who is 7 years younger was almost always the Golden Child because he was the boy my dad always wanted.  He is the one who tried to commit sucide last year and then was formally diagnosed.  We could have all told them that. He was born horrible I think.  I think I am hijacking Happy's post though so i won't go on, . 

   As for your brother who is the Narcissist, HappyChappy, he sounds just like my vampire husband.  Even when i had three sons under three years old, if everything wasn't on the table correctly, the plates, napkins, eating utensils, hot steaming hot--he would berate me for hours after.  I did not know about this disorder then and I would blame myself for being such an inept Josette.  Why Barnabas deserves much better than me forgetting a knife!  Never mind that one child might have just had a seizure, that was no excuse for not having it all perfect for the vampire... .


  We have all been through hell and back living with Borderlines and Narcissists.  I think i came out relatively unscathed because I was always living someone else's life within the pages of a book.  I was constantly reading whatever I could get my hands on... . I would read the back of a box of cereal if it could get me out of being with my witch mother and pretend I wasn't sitting next to her at the table.  I have heard that people in concentration camps would read everything they could get their hands on too.  In a way it almost was sort of like being held hostage in one of those places, the borderline had complete control over everything from when you went to the bathroom to whatever she desired.  Books were my salvation.  I became many people and none of them were me.  Thank God.  So yes, I was the 'forgotten child'.   That proved to be my salvation.  Sounds like you were the forgotten child too HappyChappy     In this respect our borderline parent did us a favor unwittingly... .

[strangerinparadise]

Your N brother *punched* your kid?And all because your son reminded Nboy of how annoying you were as a kid? So he puts the blame on you and is absolved, huh? What a jerk! And yet it can be so hard to disengage from them as they are the only family we have known.

I'm having some difficulty with NC right now but that doesn't mean it can't be done. Maybe you should boycott family get-togethers and dinners? Sounds like they are not a safe place for your kid, not even mentioning the mental punishings your going through by being around them.

I'm so sorry you have to deal with this. Sorry if I'm out of line by calling your Nb a jerk but I really hope you set yourself and your family away from them. 

[HappyChappy]

You guys are the best. I've not cried since I was at primary school, but I welled up a bit reading your kind words.

Veronica Lodge - your lost child suggestion is spot on for my sis, who's 6 years younger. Unfortunately I was always the scapegoat. The type that burns himself out trying to convince them I'm not who they accuse me off. I once won a National Art competition - my school was so impressed, and my BPD Mom scolded me, for showing off. She then gave my GC bro money for a pencil doodle. Only his pictures went on the wall and he failed his Art exam.

strangerinparadise I know !

Josette Collins Music was my escape - but books would have been better, were I not dyslexic. Is there a spell checker on this forum ? I can't find one.

I have been NC since the event and it was that event that triggered the realisation that they were BPD and a N.  So NC with N Bro is not an issue. But having healed a lot in the 4 months of NC, I need to get in contact with my BPD Ma as my Dad is very old, and she doesn't look after him properly. Only problem is BPD vengeance. I have told them it's my PTSD and I'm seeing a counsellor (which is true). I've had PTSD for 16 years now. But even though the main issue with my PTSD is I can't have any contact at all with my BPD - she's decided it relates to when I worked abroad. I let her think this. Is it possible I'll escape vengeful acts? Are BPD impulsive, or will she comes smiling then get me in years to come? The reason I ask, is I'm aware my N Bro has done really, really, evil things to me and he waits years to get revenge. But my BPD Mom, I have no evidence she is covert or waits.