Home page of BPDFamily.com, online relationship supportMember registration here
June 18, 2021, 06:51:08 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Board Admins: Harri, Once Removed
Senior Ambassadors: Cat Familiar, I Am Redeemed, Mutt, Turkish
  Help!   Boards   Please Donate Login to Post New?--Click here to register  
bing
VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?" Parental alienation is when a parent allows a child to participate or hear them degrade the other parent. This is not uncommon in divorces and the children often adjust. In severe cases, however, it can be devastating to the child. This video provides a helpful overview.
204
Pages: 1 2 [All]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Challenging "no contact"  (Read 6913 times)
LivingLearning
**
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 93


« on: May 09, 2014, 11:28:07 PM »

 So for the sake of discussion that could help me I just posted this:

"So when do I stop taking it? When do i speak my truth?

When do I stop assigning a BPD so much power that I need NC to protect myself?"

Interested in replies.
Logged
AwakenedOne
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 776



« Reply #1 on: May 09, 2014, 11:43:08 PM »

Follow Mutts advice. Good luck. 



Logged
Mutt
Senior Ambassador
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Divorced Oct 2015
Posts: 10309



WWW
« Reply #2 on: May 09, 2014, 11:58:24 PM »

Hi LivingLearning,

No contact is a temporary tool to give yourself space / time to heal. The goal is to detach, take this opportunity to understand BPD, learn that it's not something that is personal, it's an attachment disorder. They lack a sense of self, have low self esteem, feel guilt and shame. It's a great opportunity to do our own personal inventory, what are our negative personality traits? What are the issues that we brought to the table? It really takes two. There are some big lessons to learn, if we look. Detachment leads to freedom.

- Mutt
Logged

"Let go or be dragged" -Zen proverb
LivingLearning
**
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 93


« Reply #3 on: May 10, 2014, 12:21:29 AM »

Hey mutt,

In some ways I agree, in some ways I ask you for clarification.

Does it rally take two? I'm aware that's a popular idea in self help. Of which I'm no stranger for 2o years. Yet was that true in nazi germany? If not, why can't we see that down to personal encounters. Were the Jews participating?

I'm starting to realize despite pop psych, that maybe it doesn't take two. And that can be liberating. That maybe the kind, are good victims. That this doesn't mean it takes two, it took one. One person who was victimizing. And the irony is to realize that. And many people I. "Stockholm syndrome". Are drawn to see the fault in themselves, when there was none?

It's a new idea I've been exploring and finding great relief in.
Logged
LivingLearning
**
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 93


« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2014, 12:40:20 AM »

Also mutt,

You mentioned "personal inventory". I recognize that as an AA/ allanon slogan. My experience of allanon has been overall negative though for a time (5 years)I felt it was a good group- then i noticed what research I believe shows. Questionable efficacy of that system for recovery. I believe the stat is 4 percent efficacy  as opposed to Europe which does better and doesn't agree to the idea of powerlessness? This comes in to our conversation as it relates to your subtle ways of attributing contribution to me.
Logged
Mutt
Senior Ambassador
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Divorced Oct 2015
Posts: 10309



WWW
« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2014, 12:43:38 AM »

Does it rally take two? I'm aware that's a popular idea in self help. Of which I'm no stranger for 2o years. Yet was that true in nazi germany? If not, why can't we see that down to personal encounters. Were the Jews participating?

She sounds like a super-villain.

I'm starting to realize despite pop psych, that maybe it doesn't take two. And that can be liberating. That maybe the kind, are good victims. That this doesn't mean it takes two, it took one. One person who was victimizing. And the irony is to realize that. And many people I. "Stockholm syndrome". Are drawn to see the fault in themselves, when there was none?

It's a new idea I've been exploring and finding great relief in.

Junk psychology validates anger.

Logged

"Let go or be dragged" -Zen proverb
LivingLearning
**
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 93


« Reply #6 on: May 10, 2014, 12:51:49 AM »

I don't understand what those two responses mean. Can you elaborate?
Logged
willy45
Formerly "johnnyorganic", "rjh45", "SurferDude"
******
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 762



« Reply #7 on: May 10, 2014, 12:52:32 AM »

I agree with you here. It only takes one to victimize. It takes two to stay. I think that is what it means in terms of 'it takes two'. And I agree that the pop psychology stuff just doesn't apply in this kind of situation. If someone is punching you in the face, one some level, it 'takes two' (the fist and the face) but is it the fault of the face for getting a fist in it? No. I think this is where the pop psychology stuff gets really dangerous. My ex used to use that on me ALL THE TIME. She would rage at me and freak out and then tell me the exact same thing... . that I needed to look at MY behaviour and take my equal part of the responsibility in it. That is called 'gas-lighting' and to continue down this path after the relationship is over is to continue to play the gas-lighting in your mind over and over and over again. It's not helpful. What is more helpful is to realize that the part I played in this abuse was staying around for it and not recognizing it at the time for what it was, abuse. Does this make it my fault? No. Is my ex ultimately responsible? Yes. This line of thinking about how it takes two is very dangerous. I know there are all these 'tools' to deal with someone who is being verbally and emotionally abusive. The validating, the boundaries, and blah blah blah. But if someone is punching you in the face, is it wise to validate their punching? Nope. It's wise to run the F&CK away. So how is verbal and emotional abuse any different? It's not.

What is more useful than blaming yourself for their behavior is to detach yourself from it. It wasn't you. It was them. Part of detaching is easy. It is just detaching. For me, this is what no contact is about. Why would I want to be in contact with someone who has proven to be abusive? It's not like my ex is taking the time apart to think about her part in the r/s and doing the internal work to grow and be better. So why the H&LL would I want to be in contact with her? Sure. I miss her with every bone in my body. But I can deal with that. That isn't going to hurt me. That is my responsibility to deal with. What is going to hurt me is any form of contact with her whatsoever. I can change. Sure. But she isn't. There is no way. She went to three counciling sessions after we broke up because she was feeling suicidal. Her take away? I am 'bipolar'. Hilarious. I'm not bipolar in the least. What her experience of the relationship in order to get this take away is very telling. She would rage at me. I would get bummed out. She would wonder why I was bummed out and thought my behavior was very odd. Why? Because she took ZERO responsibility for her rages. It was like they never happened. And if she did remember, it was MY FAULT and so she was completely justified in doing it. The resulting depression I would sink into must therefore be because I have some kind of internal chemical issue (from her perspective). It has never ever crossed her mind that I would get bummed out because she would RAGE at me for nothing.

Anyhow, I'm ranting... .

My point is this. No contact is for you. It is for you to consider whether you really want this person in your life. For me, I have decided that she is poison. She is never going to change. She is always going to be needy. She is always going to want something from me (emotionally or otherwise). She doesn't want to be my friend because of me. She wants to be my friend in case she NEEDS something from me. F that. I have tons of friends. I would much rather invest in someone new. H&LL, I don't have enough time to invest in people that I already know are awesome.

To answer your original question... . when do you speak your truth? Do it now. Speak your truth to your friends and family. DO NOT SPEAK YOUR TRUTH TO YOU EX. AT ALL COSTS... . Trust me on that one. That will backfire. At the end of the day, who cares what she thinks and who cares what others think of her. Doesn't impact your life one bit. The best thing for you is that everyone around her thinks she amazing so that they can provide the narcissistic supply she needs and she won't be hunting around for you to supply it. No contact is for you to get to a place where you just don't give a ___ anymore. And, I'm hoping for me anyways... . that no contact leads me to a place where I don't care to be in 'no contact'. It will just be a given. I won't care anymore. I won't think about her anymore. And if I do, it will be with a fleeting What the heck was I thinking. That's my goal. I've been with crazy chicks before. And I have gotten to that place with all of them even though I never thought I would. So for me, 'no contact' right now is a conscious act. I'm hoping that with time that 'no contact' is no longer an active thing I need to do. It will just be 'I don't even think of this person anymore'.

Hope this helps. I'm tired. And rambling. Maybe some nuggets in there.
Logged
Exeter

*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Single 3 Mos.
Posts: 40



« Reply #8 on: May 10, 2014, 12:59:49 AM »

LivingLearning I tend to agree to a degree, while in some relationships with BPD's there can be a Co-Dependent partner suffering from the abuse due to being starry eyed over the idealization from the BPD, I feel I was a forced CODep because we had a child of which I did not have custody of yet.  Therefore if I leave, I'm cheated on, she gets with someone else, and I get to see my kid 3 months out of the year.  WOW what a warrior I am, what a strong person I am that I chose to stand up for my self.  

The first time I forgave her slightly questioned myself

The second time I forgave her yet really questioned myself seriously struggled with anxiety, pain, fear

After I got custody of my son after the second cheating, I started to check out I think honestly which is why I feel my healing process might not take that long.  Plus I have been through bad relationships before, or shall I say one's that ended painfully for me.  I might even be a bit emotionally closed off or well-guarded or regulated so that I can handle some types of trauma better, I have no idea.  I could be all wrong and tomorrow could be hell, who knows.

Back to your statement though, how about the first person in history that was ever sexually abused by their parent, it did not take two in that example.  The child lets say could not have defended themselves, a rape victim is a victim, in most cases unable to stop their offender, and when cheating occurs to us unbeknownst until they come home or tell us did we choose that, could we have defended ourselves from that?

If we had no child the first time she cheated on me, I would have probably left her, and after the second time I damn sure would have, I wrote that on 3 different forums in January that I can look to, and you know what... . I did leave her.

In closing I will say this, I was not perfect in that relationship by any means, and I am sure while I was hurt by this person I said some hurtful things back, you bet, which is normal yet still hurtful to her.  However people that cheat whether BPD or not try to rationalize or justify why they did it, they were unhappy, not enough attention, its all BS.  I did college every night for 2 hours or less after work online, after that I was free to spend time with her and family.  

What if it wasn't college, what if it was church, or playing basketball at the YMCA?  Would that have made any difference in her not cheating?

No, because of the type of person she is, and that's not my fault.  It's healthy to have some entertainment and interests in your life outside of your partner, she had none until she sobered up after cheating on me twice and then her interests became almost copies of mine when I broke up with her, sprucing up the house I left - I always did home improvement, cleaning more, I always made sure the house was clean on a nightly basis, I said for years we should scrapbook our good memories, she started scrapbooking after I broke up with her.

Ridiculous.
Logged
LivingLearning
**
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 93


« Reply #9 on: May 10, 2014, 01:05:06 AM »

Hey, thanks, and I'm tired too.

Crap, I Need to think about all this but your reply was really helpful. Really helpful. Will reread in the morning. Just kind of sad now and absorbing.

Logged
seeking balance
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Gay, lesb
Relationship status: divorced
Posts: 7147



« Reply #10 on: May 10, 2014, 09:56:43 AM »

Right on point Mutt!

No contact is a temporary tool to give yourself space / time to heal. The goal is to detach, take this opportunity to understand BPD, learn that it's not something that is personal, it's an attachment disorder.

Think of it this way:

No Contact is a way to have a boundary when you have already established a pattern of not having one - severe, yes, but if you had proper emotional/physical/spiritual boundaries, frankly you wouldn't be here.
Logged

Faith does not grow in the house of certainty - The Shack
dontknow2
***
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 154



« Reply #11 on: May 10, 2014, 10:22:34 AM »

Livinglearning,

No matter how good "no contact" would have been for me. I wasn't ready for years to go NC and had to speak my truth again and again from so many different angles. Looking back, I see how I used the relationship with my xBPDh as a vehicle to work through so many personal issues (unconsciously at the time). Because of my approach though, it will take me YEARS to rebuild my dignity and self-respect lost plus mend a very broken heart... . I wonder some days if I will ever be able to recover. I paid a big and risky price that many others here on this board are smart enough to avoid. Yet, my personal issues may have been deeper than others on this board and required a different approach. Who knows.

Ultimately, you decide what is best for you. It is great that you are educating yourself beforehand though. This is a great place to find out the risks of going down certain paths.

I love a good challenge. Thanks for sharing.
Logged
willy45
Formerly "johnnyorganic", "rjh45", "SurferDude"
******
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 762



« Reply #12 on: May 10, 2014, 10:42:58 AM »

I completely 100% agree with Seeking Balance here. If boundaries were strong, you wouldn't be here, I wouldn't be here, none of us would be here. We would have taken it once, said 'if you do that again, I'm leaving' and then when it happened again, we would have left. That's it. Over. No boards. No therapy. Done. Establishing No Contact is establishing a boundary. It's emotionally gut wrenching but the only thing that can be done. You probably aren't used to taking care of yourself. I know I wasn't. I totally suck at that. But it is worth learning otherwise the pattern will continue to repeat.
Logged
intoashell

*
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 15


« Reply #13 on: May 10, 2014, 06:31:31 PM »

This is an interesting thread for me and helpful in gaining insight. I am abit all over with this topic as am still in FOG with my uBPDex boyfriend - then friend. It does concern me that the "it takes two" stuff seems to be very prominent in alot of areas.

It makes me somewhat uncomfortable as some people are subject to quite strong abuse and really that means that getting out of situations is very difficult. 

In a respectful/healthy relationship boundaries to me can be discussed and then respected. Sadly for what I can understand of BPD this is not possible.

Abuse victims very often blame themselves, the abuser exerts control and power and encourages them to feel this way. Boundaries are possibly seen as challenges and the screws sometimes turned tighter.

I have had co dependency issues but I find getting out hard, not because I want/miss/need the person but because I feel FOG. I pray for them, they are very unwell.

In my opinion Adults can be preyed upon too, attributes exploited and used against them.

Then again I understand that perhaps I wouldn't be here if I had watched more closely for red flags, not believed his stories about the red flags. I was too trusting, too hopfull , and yes have tolerated too much so I can see that side... . I should have got out sooner. That then means though I have now to see what damage is done with my therapist. It would be a sad situation if I am not going to trust and believe people or offer help and support in case they abuse that.

Anyway am jumping in with ramblings so apologies if its all over the place.

Logged
Mutt
Senior Ambassador
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Divorced Oct 2015
Posts: 10309



WWW
« Reply #14 on: May 10, 2014, 06:53:29 PM »

I have control over what behaviors, actions that I will allow from others unto me. I have the ability to change and disengage from people that are exerting toxic behaviors. I have control of myself. So be it, if ex is trying to engage me to  soothe her anxiety, stress etc for her I choose to dis-engage and focus on something else in my life. Something positive, I choose to figure out why I ignored the red flags, why did I put up with the behaviors, what negative personality traits did I have that where triggers? What can I change in myself to lead to healthier relationships.

Excerpt
“The universe is not short on wake-up calls. We’re just quick to hit the snooze button." - Brene Brown

Logged

"Let go or be dragged" -Zen proverb
LivingLearning
**
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 93


« Reply #15 on: May 19, 2014, 09:41:10 PM »

Thanks for the replies and support!

It means so much to me. To:

Mutt

awakenedo

Seeking balance

Willy45

I see you as perhaps thinking you're supporting me in some way, and I disagree.

I'm coming to see I wasn't responsible, it wasn't supportive, nor were your words, or healing.

After 20 years in therapy, yoga, and meditation I've come to realize there are some who are "tricksters". It doesn't mean one is vulnerable, or a "victim mentality", or any other problem. It means the victimizer is effective in choosing a victim. This doesn't make me succeptable, it makes me empowered. To notice. To avoid. To choose joy.

     In many cases it doesn't take two to tango. And realizing that is holding others RESPONSIBLE. Wishing their peace and joy, and not being afraid to give them the feedback that could help them because you come from a place of strength.
Logged
Emelie Emelie
*****
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 665


« Reply #16 on: May 19, 2014, 10:06:05 PM »

This is a really interesting discussion.  Valid points on all sides.  I don't think my xBF was an intentional victimizer nor do I think I was an intentional victim.  He does try to "hide" his BPD behaviors.  Told me once he was always afraid in new relationships because he knew it "would all come out" eventually.  (His raging and verbal abuse.)  I think the fact that I was very vulnerable, a year out of a lousy marriage, made him more "confident" with me.  But I also question why I stayed as long as I did in our first go round.  Why I accepted the raging and verbal abuse.  When the beautiful and heartfelt next day apologies started to lose their luster. 

I am angry at him because he worked very hard to get me to come back to him and didn't keep his promises of support groups, therapy, etc.  Ended up hurting me deeply once again.  But I don't feel "victimized".  In a very real sense he's just not capable of doing it better.  I do take responsibility for going back to him based on "promises" when he hadn't taken any concrete actions yet. 
Logged
woodsposse
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Parent
Posts: 587



« Reply #17 on: May 19, 2014, 10:23:14 PM »

So for the sake of discussion that could help me I just posted this:

"So when do I stop taking it? When do i speak my truth?

When do I stop assigning a BPD so much power that I need NC to protect myself?"

Interested in replies.

I thought I'd add my reply before reading what everyone else wrote.  I'm sure what they said is awesome, I just want to fly off the top of my head before I scroll down.

You ask an interesting question.

You should always speak your truth and not "take  it".  Yes, we do tend to give over our power in a BPD r/s, especially if we don't know that that is what we are in.  Those of us nons who approach life without the prism of the disorder tainting our vision may approach the world very different than those who have the disorder.  That is our truth.

Mind  you, a pwBPD... . well, that is their truth.  It isn't wrong.  It is just the way they see the world and react inside of the boundaries that their brains are wired for.

If you have separated from a pwBPD and there isn't a hope of trying to "work it out" - I have come to the conclusion (for me) that going NC is the only way to really separate and heal from the effects of such a relationship.

I have been LC with my ex-wife (diagnosed PD) since late last year (I last spoke on the phone with her in November)... . I haven't physically seen her since about September (I think)... . and then went total NC in February.  Well, up until a week ago when our daughter announced her engagement. 

During all this time... . it gave me space I needed so I could get away from the stressors and triggers and allow myself to really start to heal.  Yes, it wasn't easy brezzy breaking NC, but it's our child and our daughter was happy so it was time.  I always knew I wasn't doing NC to pretend my ex didn't exist - it was just to give me time to heal and get use to my "new life" without her.

Another issue popped up today which forced me to want to actually talk with her - so she phoned and we had a brief conversation.  It went a little longer than I had wanted - and near the end, some feeling started to pop up which reminded me of why I loved her in the first place.  But that's okay.  It's normal.

I was far enough removed from the day-to-day chaos drama that I could handle a few emotions being stirred.

Since our time apart, I have been able to get to a quiet place, reflect on me.  What brought me to the r/s.  What motivated me to act/react in the r/s the way I did- and what kept me in the cycle of chaos and drama that such a r/s brings.  this, of course was after coming here and learing more about the disorder - but more importantly, learning about myself more and what my "truths" actually were.

So now I feel more ready to speak with her and my boundaries are more defined.  My truths have substance and meaning (and since I have been in therapy for two years... . I think I have the backing of professionals to guide me).

When do you stop taking it?  That would be... . now!

When do you speak your truth?  That would be any time you are ready. (caveat to follow:  But speak your truth when you are at a place of peace and calmness for your happiness starts and ends with you!)

When do you stop giving a BPD your power? That would be... . anytime you want.
Logged
blissful_camper
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 611



« Reply #18 on: May 19, 2014, 10:31:24 PM »

What's the saying?  Fool me once, shame on you.  Fool me twice, shame on me.  

My ex fooled me once.  Shame on him.  My ex fooled me twice, shame on me.  

I'm not saying this to beat myself up about it but the reality is I stayed.  I stayed way too long.  

I clearly have some issues to have remained in a relationship like that.  My ex is responsible for bringing abuse to the table in our r/s.  I'm responsible for staying.  Two separate things.  The stuff over there is his stuff to deal with (or not).  The stuff over here, is mine to deal with (or not).  I'm choosing to deal with it so that I never wind up in an r/s like that again.  
Logged
woodsposse
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Parent
Posts: 587



« Reply #19 on: May 19, 2014, 10:45:44 PM »

 

After reading through the replies - which were awesome (I knew they would be) - there are only two points which jumped out at me which I have to reply to.  Nazi's and Child Abuse.

There is a HUGE difference between being in a relationship with a person who suffers from BPD and the crimes that Nazi's and people who abuse children.  This is, of course, in response to "does it really take two".

In the case of a child being sexually abused - in just about any society... . this is totally frowned upon, for good reasons, but to liken the child to a "partner" in the abuse is, in a word, ludicrous.  They are the most innocent of innocent victims.  They don't ask for or go out of their way to be in that "situation".  it is put and placed upon them.

So... . no... . in any shape, form or fashion of the word - No... . it does not take two.

The same applies for the victims in Nazi Germany.  The unfortunate masses who were victimized had no power, no choice and didn't ask for it and didn't willingly participate in it. I'm postivive if they could have said "Uh... . no mein heir... . I'd prefer not to go on the train today"... . they probably would have.  

So, again, to draw that comparison is just ludicrous.

In a "normal" relationship - and we are talking consenting adults - no one is forcing you to stay.  As matter of fact, most people and societies couple up voluntarily.  And even when marriage is involved, you have every right to... . oh, I dunno - leave.

But inside of the relationship - even if one person is disordered, it takes two people to have the relationship continue down a path.  One person may be disordered, but the other person stays in the chaos and dysfunction.  Yes, I know there are reasons why people stay (financial, kids, and all the rest) - but what about when there is cheating, rages, lies, manipulations, break ups, recycles, push/pull... . no one puts a gun to the Non's head and orders "Stay!"

I was in my dance with my diagnosed wife for almost 20 years.  We have been together since she was 19 (she jjust turned 39).  Now we are separated and she got pregnant by my replacement shortly after she left.  We broke up and recycled (oh I lost count of how many times) before we got married.  Then were married for 13 years, raised my three kids from my previous marriage - and in the last 4 years of our marriage she went completely ragetastic. It was horrible.

But I stayed.  I initially thought when we would argue or fight or she would get on my nerves I could talk her into understanding that she was totally off base.  This just made things worse so we had a very high conflict r/s.

Well after the first round of cheating and breakup... . we stayed apart for 6 months... . but I let her come back and we tried it again.  This happened a few more times, and each time I kept going back and trying again. Nothing got "better" until I got custody of my girls and now we had a buffer.  

So when things finally totally ruptured (once the girls were grown), I threw in the towel. There was nothing I could do.  So I said it was time for the final split.  Not because I wanted to end our r/s... . but I didn't know what else to do.  Then things got worse (because I abandoned her).

Can't win for loosing.

Well it wasn't until I came here, learned about the disorder and what I had been dealing with - and was able to reflect on who and what I am (tracing it all the way back to my own childhood issues) was I able to understand that in our relationship - the dynamics of the conflict was the two of us.

I had my own issues - and she had hers.  I was viewing the world one way - and she another.

It took both of us inside our relationship to make it what it was.

oh... . she still has a diagnosed PD.  She is still quite emotional and can get off kilter if you look at her sideways.  But she is still a very intelligent, beauitiful woman... . who, unfortunately, I know I can't be involved with because the way I see the world is so vastly different than her that if we were to come together again, the same thing would happen and the r/s would be just as rocky.

That is also because, at this moment in my healing process, I'm focusing on me.  I need to heal.  I don't have space in my head (yet) to learn what I need to learn to be empathetic to her needs and to construct my behaviors around her to make it easier for her to deal with the world.

I need the attention I need to fix my  brokenness.

Yes... . it takes two.

(And for the record... . Nazi's and child molseters suck!)
Logged
woodsposse
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Parent
Posts: 587



« Reply #20 on: May 19, 2014, 10:47:18 PM »

What's the saying?  Fool me once, shame on you.  Fool me twice, shame on me.  

My ex fooled me once.  Shame on him.  My ex fooled me twice, shame on me.  

I'm not saying this to beat myself up about it but the reality is I stayed.  I stayed way too long.  

I clearly have some issues to have remained in a relationship like that.  My ex is responsible for bringing abuse to the table in our r/s.  I'm responsible for staying.  Two separate things.  The stuff over there is his stuff to deal with (or not).  The stuff over here, is mine to deal with (or not).  I'm choosing to deal with it so that I never wind up in an r/s like that again.  

Very well said Blissful_Camper.  Very well said.

(BTW... . did you know in up-state California, there is a campground called "Happy Camp"?  Bit of trivia)
Logged
Infared
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 1763


« Reply #21 on: May 19, 2014, 10:51:28 PM »

Hey mutt,

In some ways I agree, in some ways I ask you for clarification.

Does it rally take two? I'm aware that's a popular idea in self help. Of which I'm no stranger for 2o years. Yet was that true in nazi germany? If not, why can't we see that down to personal encounters. Were the Jews participating?

I'm starting to realize despite pop psych, that maybe it doesn't take two. And that can be liberating. That maybe the kind, are good victims. That this doesn't mean it takes two, it took one. One person who was victimizing. And the irony is to realize that. And many people I. "Stockholm syndrome". Are drawn to see the fault in themselves, when there was none.

It's a new idea I've been exploring and finding great relief in.

Well let's see... . (you brought up the topic.).what would have changed if the Jews had gone total NC with the Nazis?  No harm would have come to the Jews.

""Stockholm syndrome". Are drawn to see the fault in themselves, when there was none.

A human being with no faults? Interesting concept.

Alanon doesn't work?

It all sounds like ego-centric, junk psychology to me.
Logged
blissful_camper
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 611



« Reply #22 on: May 19, 2014, 11:49:47 PM »

What's the saying?  Fool me once, shame on you.  Fool me twice, shame on me.  

My ex fooled me once.  Shame on him.  My ex fooled me twice, shame on me.  

I'm not saying this to beat myself up about it but the reality is I stayed.  I stayed way too long.  

I clearly have some issues to have remained in a relationship like that.  My ex is responsible for bringing abuse to the table in our r/s.  I'm responsible for staying.  Two separate things.  The stuff over there is his stuff to deal with (or not).  The stuff over here, is mine to deal with (or not).  I'm choosing to deal with it so that I never wind up in an r/s like that again.  

Very well said Blissful_Camper.  Very well said.

(BTW... . did you know in up-state California, there is a campground called "Happy Camp"?  Bit of trivia)

Thank you Woodsposse.  I Googled "Happy Camp" and came across the community (the one with a Bigfoot statue) west of Yreka.  Is that the one?

If so, no Bigfoot sightings down south. These mountains may be too tall for him to climb.   Smiling (click to insert in post)

Logged
woodsposse
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Parent
Posts: 587



« Reply #23 on: May 19, 2014, 11:53:57 PM »

That's the one!   Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)
Logged
blissful_camper
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 611



« Reply #24 on: May 20, 2014, 12:12:18 AM »

Shame is a really strong word, whether it's used once or twice. I'd actually offer- no shame, just quality judgment/discernment. Every time.

I believe "fool me once... . " is a Chinese Proverb.  

The reality is, I'm responsible for staying in a relationship with a man who was abusing me.  I could have left the r/s earlier but I didn't.  I'd like to think that one of the reasons I stayed was because I knew on an unconscious level that I had some pretty heavy inner work to do.  I was drawn to that r/s because that's what I needed at the time to facilitate change within myself.  That r/s was the event that forced me to go further inward than I've gone before.  I thought that I was done with FOO issues a long time ago.  What a rude awakening, but what an opportunity to *grow* and hopefully reach my true potential.  

Blissful "feeling her optimism returning" Camper.  
Logged
blissful_camper
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 611



« Reply #25 on: May 20, 2014, 12:15:15 AM »

That's the one!   Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

Awesome!  Being cool (click to insert in post)
Logged
bunnyrabit
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 278


« Reply #26 on: May 20, 2014, 12:37:33 AM »

After I broke up with my first BPD ex, now some 6 years ago I didn't do any work because I didn't have a clue what I was dealing with. I was convinced that I was a failure and not worthy of any love because that's what she and her family had been telling me for 8 years straight.

And sure enough, I fell right back in to the arms of yet another BPD. Coincidence? I think not.

Luckily the last one was such a textbook BPD that I was just bound to find out sooner or later. In a way she she has given me an tremendous gift, the opportunity to heal and finally become a man instead of a broken boy, and I'll gladly do the necessary work.

First step though is to completely accept my part in it, the BPD just does what the BPD does, no need to blame them. Are you going to blame a scorpion for stinging you if you try to pet it? Yes, it was my choice to step into these 'relationships' and more importantly to stay in them and I'm starting to clearly see the reasons for that now... .
Logged
Ziggiddy
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Parent
Relationship status: Married 10 years
Posts: 833



« Reply #27 on: May 20, 2014, 07:02:54 AM »

LivingLearning

Like you, I am very interested in the idea of it taking two to tango. If any of us entered into a r'ship with a BPD knowing that we had emotional deficits and exactly what they were and how we got them, then yes. We are fully responsible for our predicament. However the nature of the disorder is that one is hooked/emotionally engaged before ever understanding the nature of the engagement. Do all BPD's systematically and purposefully set out to addict someone, hook them in then abuse them? I don't know. Maybe they are as much a victim to their condition as we are. BUT I know that I had NO CLUES about the disorder before being engaged with people who had it. Plus I spent my whole life blaming myself for all the things BPDm made me responsible for as well as all those amorphous broken things I could not name. The friendships and romantic r'ships that went so horribly wrong as I was searching out painful experiencing. Had I known that would I have done it? HELL no!

So I blame. i blame the people who were responsible for THEIR behaviour. I blame me for the mistakes I make but then after that blaming doesn't serve any purpose except as a predecessor to as much forgiveness as is possible. in some cases that's very little or none at all.

As far as NC goes, I can easily see how I would use that as a weapon and a power tool. So I'm obviously not looking at it in a useful way for my own benefit. But at least I'm being honest. Work out what you want from NC as honestly as you can. And I personally think it's absolutely critical to get blame off yourself for the things you didn't do. From there, you can better see the things you DID do and hopefully avoid them in the future.

PS Thanks for asking the 'ambassador' question, man. i've wondered too. Maybe it's like the Freemasons - only freemasons know?

Logged

maternal
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 155


« Reply #28 on: May 20, 2014, 10:00:39 AM »

This thread is exactly what I needed to read.  I've been back and forth about No Contact for my situation.

No Contact was broken by me days ago, and though urges arise, I have been strong enough to fight those urges for further rekindling types of contact.  I stopped telling him that I love him and that I miss him, regardless of the times when it's true.  I am on the opposite side of the country from him, but I plan to return from that city by the end of next year, and I have to be prepared for the possibility of seeing him and / or hearing from him again.  I have to be able to get myself strong enough to be able to see him again and not just fall right into his trap.  Perhaps it's just my makeup, but I feel as though I will be better off detaching without having to go full No Contact.  I am still very much addicted to him, but the insight and self-awareness that I have gained from being involved with him puts my whole world in perspective.  If I can't function without the fear of being contacted by him, then I'm no good to myself.  I have to be stronger than my fear and overcome it within myself.  I have to detach myself from my own feelings for / of / about him.  I have to allow myself the test of him.  He will always be "with" me in the sense that I will never forget him or what he has, whether inadvertently or not, taught me about myself.  He was always be 'that one' that I think about... . at least, that is where my head is at this moment.  It's not fair to someone else that deserves my love if I'm still thinking of him, but the possibility does exist.  He has had a very profound effect on my life and he's changed me in a very deep and unforgettable way, so he will always be with me in some respect. 

Admittedly, he is not pestering me or bothering me in any way (yet?) and though I have a very vague expectation of future revival contact, I don't know that he ever will.  He is so 'hurt' by what I've 'done to him' that I don't expect the kind of apology that someone else got from him while he and I were involved.  So I'm not sure he has any reasons to contact me, and I may not even have to worry about it.  But I do need to be prepared.
Logged
blissful_camper
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 611



« Reply #29 on: May 20, 2014, 11:24:35 AM »

When I went NC I was extricating myself from an abusive r/s.  That was for me, not him.  Now NC has new meaning.  Why would I want to engage with anyone who is abusive?  

Blissful "selective about who she spends her time with" Camper
Logged
rougeetnoir

*
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 46


« Reply #30 on: May 20, 2014, 02:22:06 PM »

In my case, I didn't just go "no contact" cold turkey.  I did it after I negotiated the move out and while doing so, had to negotiate several sessions of yelling at me, FOG, wild accusations, and power plays.  Every time, we had contact after that (I made a perhaps ill-advised contact with a friend of hers to let her know to look out for my ex, because I still cared about her.  One that led to some manipulations by the friend, which similarly featured guilt-tripping and anger AND an angry response from my ex (which was met with an angry response when I asked why she was so angry with me since she kept informing me that she was "done and moving on.", I decided that the best thing for me was to keep my distance and be as neutral as possible if I had to deal with her.  I didn't declare to her "I'm going NC," but I stopped contacting her (last contact: a month and a half ago which led to 5 abusive emails while I kept my replies on contact).  I've been full NC for about a month and a half now. 

I've realized that she feels deeply, deeply ashamed about our relationship ending and that she reacts how she has whenever she's felt or feeling ashamed (whenever a facade in the crack will be revealed), she lashes out at me (all of her "friends" liked and respected me-- they called me far and away the best guy she's dated; her mom called me a "blessing" for how much I helped out with her son, etc. etc.  She blew a good thing and everyone around her has to pretend she didn't, which they are good at because they are a group of alcoholics and enablers.).  I am not mentally in a position to put myself through that anymore even though I miss her and her son everyday, so I've chosen to go no contact.  I wish we could have a real conversation-- one where we agree on therapy and she gets help so her life doesn't have to feel so hard (exact quote to me during the fight where she put her hands around my neck and I left).  But I've tried, I asked, I begged, I pleaded, I've yelled, I've lost my cool, I've cried.  She even said she would go then never followed through.  I did my best. I need to protect myself no matter how much it hurts right now.

The other thing is that she doesn't really contact me (there were one or two practical things and two phone calls from her son when I was moving out), but when I have had to contact her, eventually the anger gets triggered.  So I realized that just me being there isn't good for her.

That's why I went no contact... . To slow the hurt for both people.  Not as revenge or as a punishment. 
Logged
Pecator
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 120



« Reply #31 on: May 20, 2014, 09:03:38 PM »

Alright, but back to the matter at hand,

I think I identify with LivingLearning on this. (LL please correct me if I missed your point)

Too often the resolution to our predicament is that we are equally responsible for being in this mess.

Being as this is a spectrum disorder (still my favourite concept learned here. Thanks Mutt.), Doesn't it fit that the spectrum applies to us nons as well? There are many here for whom their r/s with a pwBPD has brought to light FOO issues and much more for the very first time. Hopefully, with the tremendous support of this site, their encounter has pointed them towards a journey of self-discovery and healing. If i may sound a bit grandiose, this is the most nobel of bpdfamily's purposes.

As a "spectrum," however, there are those who have been on a journey of healing for some time and still get hooked by pwBPD.

I believe LL is saying that this is true. LL has been on a journey of healing and self-discovery for some time. Perhaps, part of LL's journey is to claim his personal power and speak the truth he feels. BPD manipulated beyond FOO and other issues needing addressing. Perhaps, LL was on a healthy journey and BPD hurt him for because of BPD, not him.

But let me use my example rather than conjecture on his.

I appreciated the journey of healing and self-discovery most of my life. I have been involved with professional therapy since I was 17. I always though "emotional hygiene" is as important as dental hygiene. I have worked through my FOO issues to know that while still a substantial effect, they do not dominate my life. Yet I got drawn into the BPD dynamic.

I met my uBPDex at a vulnerable time. I went through a nine year period of unbelievable persecution. I was arrested and put on trial for four years. It wasn't criminal. It was an immigration issue brought about by people able to manipulate justice. It ended with the Judge saying on record, "You (Crown Attorney) have used the courts to intimidate this man. You have not proven there is anything done wrong, much less that this man has committed anything."

I met my ex three years later. While trying to wrap my head around the effects these years had on me. No, I wasn't healthy at a place, but I saw in her mirroring the inspiration to continue my journey of health and self-discovery to heal from these years.

I am understanding that her mirroring me means that those qualities are in me. That they still exist. But, I have a very difficult time dismissing the choices I made as dysfunctional or the product of my FOO issues.

She led me to believe that being there through the tough times is what makes a lasting relationship. She led me to believe that she had the emotional strength to build a life together. Okay, she had jealousy issues. Why would I not work to appease them as she said adjusted to my issues (and I did. there were no jealousy issues for the las six months of our relationship). Okay, so she ran several times when immigration issues created emotional stress that I would be taken away from her (I understood she has abandonment issues before I understood the severity of BPD). Each event lessened over time. Why would I abandon the family we built and the future we planned when I had the emotional awareness and strength to get us to a stable place?

She left me just as everything began to settle. Fearing that I would leave her.

Ultimately, because of LC rather than NC, she has told me that "can't." Not that she doesn't love me on the emotional level that created the inspiration, but she can't. I wish I would have known that two years ago.

At some point, (and I hope this is LL's point) can't we say that BPD is terrible regardless as to where we are on our personal journeys? Can we not express that it is an horrific experience regardless of whether we are aware of our FOO issues or not?

I know I have much to work on in my journey, but does that negate the fact that if I knew "she can't" I would never invested my career, livelihood, and future.


Here is another example.

What about my replacement? He is an intellectual, top in his field. His work has brought justice to areas of the world that most of us never even think about (sexual slavery). He devotes himself to his work (workaholic by many standards). Being in his mid 50s and having only one other significant relationship, does he need to address his FOO or other issues? He has found peace in his own way and contributes to humanity by important means. My ex has her hooks into him.

At what point do we declare that BPD is a serious issue? At what point do we declare that its seriousness transcends our culpability? At what point do we speak our truth and tell others of the dangers?

I know that my journey is even tougher now. I will strive to make it through.

But at what point do we make a public campaign? At what point should i warn my replacement?







Logged
Hurtbeyondrepair27
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Gay, lesb
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: single (1 month)
Posts: 472


« Reply #32 on: May 20, 2014, 09:10:45 PM »

Shame is a really strong word, whether it's used once or twice. I'd actually offer- no shame, just quality judgment/discernment. Every time.

I believe "fool me once... . " is a Chinese Proverb.  

The reality is, I'm responsible for staying in a relationship with a man who was abusing me.  I could have left the r/s earlier but I didn't.  I'd like to think that one of the reasons I stayed was because I knew on an unconscious level that I had some pretty heavy inner work to do.  I was drawn to that r/s because that's what I needed at the time to facilitate change within myself.  That r/s was the event that forced me to go further inward than I've gone before.  I thought that I was done with FOO issues a long time ago.  What a rude awakening, but what an opportunity to *grow* and hopefully reach my true potential.  

Blissful "feeling her optimism returning" Camper.  

Love reading stuff like this. Keeps me going. There with you
Logged

StayPositive

*
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 31


« Reply #33 on: May 20, 2014, 09:29:48 PM »

No contact is cruel.

My exBPDgf did this constantly. That's why I looked into this and found out about BPD. It's a complete disrespect of friendship and everything, and that's why most BDFs fail.

Stay Positive
Logged
woodsposse
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Parent
Posts: 587



« Reply #34 on: May 20, 2014, 09:40:00 PM »

At what point do we declare that BPD is a serious issue? At what point do we declare that its seriousness transcends our culpability?

You bring up some fantastic points.  I would have quoted the whole post, but I think theses last few sentences are all I need to start with.

BPD, or any PD are serious issues.  Mental health issues world wide are (IMHO).  Far too often we may overlook the fact that someone is diagnosed bi-polor and not see it as a mental illness and just say "oh, they hae some meds to help with that"... . and the day moves on.

But the effects pwPD have on those around them is profound and without knowing that going into a r/s with someone can cause all sorts of havoc.

But it doesn't really transcend our culpabilities ... . if we ourself are comfortable and secure with our personal boundaries.

Let  me explain by example.

BPD or  not, if I am in a r/s with someone and I find out that they have cheated on me... . I'm out the door.  No real discussion.  No barter.  This is a deal breaker and one which I don't compromise on.  So lets just say my new bPD GF who has pulled out all the stops and has got her hooks in me and I'm head over heals in love with her and I'm all in decides to do the whole cheating thing... . and I find out about it... . guess what... .

I'm out the door. 

If I stay, or allow her back, or make excuses or rationalizations... . then I am part of the "problem". 

Nobody is perfect, disordered or not, and things happen.  But, again by example, this is my boundary.  This is what I set as something I won't accept in my life.  she can do whatever she wants. If it is not boundary busting - then it is all good.  If it does go agaist it... . and I accept it - well... . that's on me.
Logged
woodsposse
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Parent
Posts: 587



« Reply #35 on: May 20, 2014, 09:47:12 PM »

No contact is cruel.

My exBPDgf did this constantly. That's why I looked into this and found out about BPD. It's a complete disrespect of friendship and everything, and that's why most BDFs fail.

Stay Positive

Yes, I agree that coming from a pwPD, "no contact" or the silent treatment is cruel.  It is a form of emotional terrorism and a manipulation tactic which is... . cruel.

But in the context of setting yourself up to heal from a relationship with a person who has BPD, the no contact isn't meant to punish the other person or to be cruel... . it is meant to give you time to heal.

Think of it like this... .

If you were constantly in conflict with someone, everytime you are together or talk you get feelings hurt and self esteem drops, you are anxious and nervous and just generally do't know what to do and your head spins round and round... . the best thing to do would be to - continue to put youself in that situation so it can improve?

No.  You would want to, at least, separate for some time - give yourself some space so you can get away from the stress triggers long enough to heal up and have a clear head.

No contact is a break from the chaos.  It gives you a chance to heal.  It really isn't meant to be forever. It can be if you need it to be, but you can't start the healing if your wounds keep getting hit.

This, by definition, is positive.
Logged
myself
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 3151


« Reply #36 on: May 20, 2014, 10:22:20 PM »

No Contact is to make Better Contact with Ourselves.

Logged
LivingLearning
**
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 93


« Reply #37 on: May 21, 2014, 08:58:28 PM »

It's funny, for so many years I've been a fan of the "it takes two" idea. There's some therapy modalities and lots of books on this idea.

   It's been really interesting to experiment with the idea that this could be a concept that actually replicates trauma. That whether it's nazis and Jews, neighbors, or a relationship, it can take one.

   To experiment with that idea means I then don't need to question "why I accepted the behavior" "what was my trauma". I instead very matter of factly can say " oh wow, that was a mistake, she's quite a chameleon and abuser and I was fooled".

    I understand this goes against much of abusee psychology: "figure out why you stayed, so you don't repeat it".

   What's interesting to me is that this can potentially keep one rooted in the past. And possibly that's exactly what causes the recurring trauma through generations.

    That's not to say I haven't thought about why I stayed, it's also simply interesting to focus on behavior not analysis. Which I suppose is also a trend in therapy in the last 10 years.
Logged
Mutt
Senior Ambassador
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Divorced Oct 2015
Posts: 10309



WWW
« Reply #38 on: May 21, 2014, 11:12:25 PM »

It's funny, for so many years I've been a fan of the "it takes two" idea. There's some therapy modalities and lots of books on this idea.

  It's been really interesting to experiment with the idea that this could be a concept that actually replicates trauma. That whether it's nazis and Jews, neighbors, or a relationship, it can take one.

  To experiment with that idea means I then don't need to question "why I accepted the behavior" "what was my trauma". I instead very matter of factly can say " oh wow, that was a mistake, she's quite a chameleon and abuser and I was fooled".

   I understand this goes against much of abusee psychology: "figure out why you stayed, so you don't repeat it".

  What's interesting to me is that this can potentially keep one rooted in the past. And possibly that's exactly what causes the recurring trauma through generations.

   That's not to say I haven't thought about why I stayed, it's also simply interesting to focus on behavior not analysis. Which I suppose is also a trend in therapy in the last 10 years.

I'm sorry that your ex has caused you so much pain LivingLearning. These r/s are like nothing else out there, we have a small community of people helping each other, because people in our regular lives don't understand. My r/s with someone with a personality disorder was emotionally abusive, no doubt. My self esteem eroded, I harbored anger and resentment. It took me several months to identify with those feelings and I didn't want to validate the anger anymore. In reality, it's doing the same thing as my ex did to me and it's splitting, it's polarizing. I did PI work here and identified what emotional trauma that was in my past, that let me to my journey with a borderline woman. Which was my father. He was an emotionally repressive, domineering man that would split me black. I didn't get attention from him, and I always had unconditional love for him.  

By doing my own PI and learning about her disorder and I still do every day, I was able to identify that I had poor boundaries or lack thereof. The idealization phase felt like a drug, I was seeking validation and attention from her that I wasn't getting from my father as a young child. That was my emotional baggage that belonged to me and not her. Everyone has their own reasons from their own experiences.

Having survived an abusive relationship, I'm more aware of toxic behaviors and red flags with people and I choose not to engage, or let them in my life, because I have boundaries now.  My cycle has stopped, but it took a borderline woman to see what my emotional baggage was. That I can take away from being in this r/s.

By learning as much as I have about BPD, I have learned that she is mentally ill, and her actions are not intentional, but a reaction to an attachment and many defense mechanisms to protect her core abandonment wounds. But through my journey of working on my issues, I have learned to become indifferent to her behaviors and de-personalize and finally... . forgive her. I feel empathy for her for having to experience feelings of self-loathing, low self esteem, shame and guilt 24/7, and she is imprisoned by her own disorder, very difficult for her to want to get help. I'm luckier, I can change, but I went through a lot of emotional pain to get here.

I can honestly say after 14 months of being out of the r/s, I feel clarity, calmer, more at peace with my FOO and my experience with her, and the strongest I've been in the last 40 years. I feel confident and it was through an extremely emotionally difficult and heartbreaking experience with a borderline woman.
Logged

"Let go or be dragged" -Zen proverb
falconfree28

*
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 20



« Reply #39 on: May 22, 2014, 03:42:22 AM »

What an excellent discussion, Mutts post has really spoke to me and genuinely everything he said I'm currently going through.

I've now been NC with my exBPDgf for nearly 3 months, for people who don't know my story we share a partner dancing community and even at those get togethers I ignore her completely, I even had to dance with her during class (even when I changed classes to keep NC) and I exchanged a maximum for four words, without NC I couldn't of started to experience of exploring who I am and exploring my feelings about why I ended up with her, I've also been helped by a very good counsellor.

It's only yesterday that I had a "break NC urge" like so many you've read about here and on many other threads, and for the first time I searched out why and by the end of it and I didn't want to contact her in any form whatsoever, I'm now starting to see who and what I am and discovering that I've piled lots of stuff and coping stratagies to deal with issues from my childhood and my upbringing.

So where does this leave me on the subject of NC, well it certainly isn't easy but it's allowed me to heal, take stock and go on a journey that is an improvement of myself, see myself but also my friendships change for the better (I'm more confident, calmer and a lot of happier) - so NC is a tool, for yourself and way to accept (eventually) how your exBPD partner affected you, if you use it wisely you're find so many things out about yourself, but it's a real challenge and a personal one that requires you to find it within yourself to face what you are, and that isn't going to feel nice.

I'm now starting to get over the guilt that I heaped on myself and what I went through not just with her but the last 15 to 20 years of my life and building myself backup into a much better person, I'll need to accept we'll still encounter each other (the fact our community is so small) but they'll be no friendship or dancing unless absolutely necessary but I'm starting to forgive her, the initial mixture of anger and guilt towards her is fading away, so my moving forward can really begin.

Logged
woodsposse
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Parent
Posts: 587



« Reply #40 on: May 22, 2014, 07:06:52 AM »

 

Mutt's post is a great testament to why being here, for me, is so important.  We do have a little community of people who understand something a lot of folks in my day to day world just don't get.  And it isn't their fault - they just don't see it.  Heck, before I finally ended up here - I didn't see it.  I mean, I was in the r/s with all the dynamics involved, but I just couldn't see it.

The bottom line of where I'm going with this is - it was once I really went LC and then NC was I able to finally step away from the chaos and stress long enough to really start to heal.  Sadly I know now that even if I had continued to stay LC or NC right after we split, I still wouldn't have been able to heal completely as I hadn't found the answers I was looking for for "her behaviors" to help explain my reactions to them.

It really was only once I came here and understoond Personality Disorders did I finally realize I had been surrounding myself with disordered women for a very long time... . starting back with my mother.  Of course the 'hole' I was trying to fill was that of what my mother didn't provide (or took away depending on how you look at it).  Yes, I needed that validation from a woman to let me know I was worth something. 

Even though I finally understand it, it is still a day to day struggle when that feeling hits and I want to soothe  it somehow.  And I realize in the past, I took whatever I could get (a port in the storm) to fill it.  Either with drinking or with superficial relationships - or getting involved with someone and staying in the r/s even though everything sign is pointing to get out.

But, I'm only a few months out on this part of my journey which took 40+ years to create.  I'm bound to have some hold overs.  And I'm okay with that.  It's normal and part of the process.
Logged
Can You Help Us Stay on the Air in 2021?

Pages: 1 2 [All]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Our 2021 Financial Sponsors
We are all appreciative of the members who provide the funding to keep BPDFamily on the air.
12years
alterK
Andi1956
Anondad
Cnvi
doghouse
drained1996
EyesUp
Harri
JD2028
lovenature
Mac5
Methuen
Mommydoc
Mutt
old97
P.F.Change
Skip
snowglobe
Swimmy55
Teno
Turkish
wendydarling

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2006-2020, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!