How do you really know they even love you

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

So - perhaps a difficult question to truly describe.

When a non faces (such as I) vicous statements, the rages, the acting out which includes wanting divorce, blaming for the most preposterous things which strain any form a plausible, as well as no affection, comfort, caring, intimacy...

BUT... .your BPDw on the other hand says she wants to be married to you, loves you,committed to me and the marriage.

WHAT do you believe?

Does she really in fact "love you"?

OR does she really in fact "hate you"... ?

How do you decide which it really is?

I just want to truth... .

Want the ambiguity and the contractions - to stop.

Does ANYONE else deal with this?

Can anyone here explain it?

[nightmoves]

So - perhaps a difficult question to truly describe.

When a non faces (such as I) vicous statements, the rages, the acting out which includes wanting divorce, blaming for the most preposterous things which strain any form a plausible, as well as no affection, comfort, caring, intimacy...

BUT... .your BPDw on the other hand says she wants to be married to you, loves you,committed to me and the marriage.

WHAT do you believe?

Does she really in fact "love you"?

OR does she really in fact "hate you"... ?

How do you decide which it really is?

I just want to truth... .

Want the ambiguity and the contractions - to stop.

Does ANYONE else deal with this?

Can anyone here explain it?

[momtara]

This comes up a lot.

I feel like they do mean what they say, but there are two different people inside of them.  They believe they feel love when they are loving you.  When that other personality takes over, it's something else.

Lots of people here struggle with whether they are 'truly' loved. I think love is a hard thing to define.  Some believe that a lot of pwBPD are incapable of real love.  I don't always believe that.  I know my exhusband with BPD was capable of real, true love.  But some folks wBPD may not love the way we do, unconditionally.

[Loveofhislife]

As I was scanning this board tonight--looking for my own answers, I saw your question.  I'm asking the same thing.  My best friend who is a mutual friend with bfBPD says that their definition of love is NEED.  When they say I love you, they mean, I "need" you.  And when you are no longer needed, you are discarded.  Not sure if you've been through that yet.  Most of us on this board know what it's like to feel idealized and devalued, but the discard was beyond belief for me.  I asked him, when I felt the barometer dropping two Saturdays ago (I literally sensed another silent treatment was coming), "So, how do you know you love me?"  He was silent for a while and awkwardly uttered, "Well, ugh, we have fun together."  These words seemed painful for him to utter.  Hard to believe from someone who weeks earlier was adoring me--unable to stop texting or phoning for even a moment--telling me how beautiful I am--why could he no longer remember what he loved about me?  Because he knew he was getting paid a large sum of money and no longer NEEDED me.  I have supported this man for over a year:  he was destitute with nothing after a divorce (from a 4th failed marriage) and he was on federal probation.  I began to understand that "I love you," in his case meant, "I need you," and "I need your money."  I am going to see a new T tomorrow who specializes in this work, because the real question is why have I put up with being used and abused for over a year?

[ultramarine]

I think they are crazily looking for love in their life, because it's like a challenge for them. They have perhaps never / rarely experienced parental love in their formative years, never had close friends and they want to get over this feeling of being unwanted by everybody. Hence they do everything and anything to CONFORM to the'idealistic' model of a lover, to the extent of being a fairytale-ish one, so that people flock around them.

But once a person becomes committed, they longer have to try hard. They now gain the license to use this person as their bouncing board, because they have never opened up and been this free with anyone else, all their life! So first, they start taking you for granted, start cracking insensitive jokes about you in public, hurt you every now and then, all because they think it's a PART of being in love.

But when you give it back to them, it all becomes your fault! and always trust the pwBPD to complicate everything, including love. They will insert so many emotions into the relationship: ANGER, HATRED, JEALOUSY, CUROSITY and then later sit and sort out, which one would help them keep their love close to them. Hence they start terrorizing / playing games / spying or blackmailing. I think each act is a desperate effort to keep their LOVE close and not lose it.

Like some people here have said, I too feel that they are capable of true love, but it gets mixed up with too many emotions that have built up since childhood. And they are not able to mentally sort them out. But yes, in the practical world, it's not humanly possible for the other person to keep pace with this chaotic arrangement, and keep clearing the cobwebs all the time. Hence most of us opt out.

I'd say they are capable of extreme love in short bursts. But are not able to spread it out evenly and sanely over a long time.

[slimmiller]

Does she really in fact "love you"?

OR does she really in fact "hate you"... ?

How do you decide which it really is?

I just want to truth... .

Want the ambiguity and the contractions - to stop.Does ANYONE else deal with this?

Can anyone here explain it?

Many of us here can relate to this first hand. Unfortunately my past expereince and with what I have learned here, It probably wont stop. Unless of course you stop it by going NC. Sorry just being honest. Theres always a slight chance but they would have to sincerely make an effert on their part to change themselves, which seems to be rare.

It is just the way they are. It is their makeup, its how they are wired. When they 'love' us its an extension and them mirroring us. In the end its like they resent us for being something they only pretend to be

[Sylvia76]

I'm in the same boat of not understanding how someone can say they love me... .and yet treat me so poorly for no reason.

I'm trying to be patient and understand that this behavior is hard-wired in my bf's psyche but with each silent treatment, each criticism, each denigrating comment it gets harder and harder to tolerate.

I'm at the point where I feel as though I give and give and give, receive harsh treatment, and to top it off I get no acknowledgement from his end of how his behavior and actions impact me and my daughter.

When he's in the middle of a low point and giving me the silent treatment I can't even communicate basic daily activities to him because he plain doesn't want to hear from me, think about me, or deal with me.

At the same time he's quick to point out that I need therapy because when he treats me badly I just want to be out of the house! Well, that, and I want to talk about things and he "can't deal with it".

I was originally committed to staying but this is getting old and really, I know I deserve much better treatment in life.

This most recent bout of the silent treatment started because I wanted to pick a plant for the house that he didn't like. It's a small plant and is totally me but I was told it "doesn't fit".

My daughter and I moved in with him almost a year ago and all of my stuff is in storage.  None of my things are allowed to be displayed in the home because it looks "cluttered" so all of my clothes, toiletries, and sentimental items are in my daughter's room.  I feel like a roommate and not his lady.

I pointed out to him that NONE of my things are around me and that's what he "couldn't deal with". He actually told me he was annoyed by the conversation.

Why should I be around someone who only says he loves me but treats me like I don't really have a place in his life?

To me that isn't love.

[LilHurt420]

I deal with this constantly... .and honestly I'm not sure

I believe my uBPDh "loves" me in some sense of a way, I guess like you love family that has been there and will be there.  But I know he can't truely love me as he does such horrible things to me.

In his twisted mind he believes that because he shields all others in his life from his henious actions that he doesn't show them love because it's "fake"... .where as he's "real" with me in being so awful which shows he "loves" me

I've all but given up making sense of anything he thinks

[Siamese Rescue]

It's been awhile since I was here if this is the same message board that I used to frequent.

As a scroll along these threads these familiar circumstances are so consistent.

I was away from my boyfriend for three months last year and at the time we had been a couple for 7 years. He triangulated us with another woman who he has cheated with for years. When we went back together his behavior was nothing short of mind boggling. Six months later in January 2014 I found out he hadn't been honest again. The entire Fall he was paying for us to go to couples counseling and lying to the counselor. In January he finally came clean... admitting to the counselor he had been lying...

The point I'm getting to is this:  this relationship has been mentally torturing to me for a long time and I chose to stay in it. Four days after that blow up, I was diagnosed with stage III advanced metastatic uterine cancer. I'm in chemo now and my odds of being alive in five years are 58%.

Initially he was supportive but he cannot change and is not undergoing any therapy... Even through my treatment he has been simply unpredictable. Currently, I have been given the silent treatment for four days. I triggered him by questioning him too much. If I have one word of advice for people on this board? If you can, make a different life for yourself and don't be emotionally ravaged by someone with mental illness that is so damaging to you because eventually your immune system could crash. I was 44 at diagnoses and I wish I had known what was headed my way. Life is not guaranteed and love is not steady in these destructive caustic relationships ... .Get out if you can.

[Vexed]

When she says she loves you, she feels what she knows love to be, for you.  It's not the same love you feel for her though.  Love is a homonym when you are in a relationship with a BPD.

Anyways, when she says she hates you, she hates you. 

They live in the right now.  What they felt yesterday, an hour ago, even a minute ago doesn't matter.  All they know is how they feel right now is their reality.  And I emphasize feel, because the conversation or event taking place doesn't matter.  Their feelings tell them how to perceive the current reality, not the other way around, which is how we live. 

They can't really envision the future either which is a big reason why they have no impulse control, life is right now and has nothing to do with the future consequences of their actions this moment. 

Basically they mean everything they say, good or bad, but 1 min later they may feel differently and mean the opposite. 

When it comes to r/s's as smart, cognitive, and manipulative as they are, they really don't think much.  They are wild animals that live strictly by instincts, only they are more unpredictable (and alluring) than a captive white tiger.  You are just the hand that feeds and eventually bitten.


When they do think it is only to attach excess negativity to an event.  To dig deep into your every action and word to twist it into a negative, no matter if it was positive, negative, or neutral.  So promoting thought is almost always a bad idea, it's much easier to anticipate their instincts and react accordingly.

[Popcorn71]

I think they are crazily looking for love in their life, because it's like a challenge for them. They have perhaps never / rarely experienced parental love in their formative years, never had close friends and they want to get over this feeling of being unwanted by everybody. Hence they do everything and anything to CONFORM to the'idealistic' model of a lover, to the extent of being a fairytale-ish one, so that people flock around them.

But once a person becomes committed, they longer have to try hard. They now gain the license to use this person as their bouncing board, because they have never opened up and been this free with anyone else, all their life! So first, they start taking you for granted, start cracking insensitive jokes about you in public, hurt you every now and then, all because they think it's a PART of being in love.

I totally agree with what you have said here.  It describes my xBPDh's behaviour exactly.

[robert4574]

When she says she loves you, she feels what she knows love to be, for you.  It's not the same love you feel for her though.  Love is a homonym when you are in a relationship with a BPD.

Anyways, when she says she hates you, she hates you. 

They live in the right now.  What they felt yesterday, an hour ago, even a minute ago doesn't matter.  All they know is how they feel right now is their reality.  And I emphasize feel, because the conversation or event taking place doesn't matter.  Their feelings tell them how to perceive the current reality, not the other way around, which is how we live. 

They can't really envision the future either which is a big reason why they have no impulse control, life is right now and has nothing to do with the future consequences of their actions this moment. 

Basically they mean everything they say, good or bad, but 1 min later they may feel differently and mean the opposite. 

When it comes to r/s's as smart, cognitive, and manipulative as they are, they really don't think much.  They are wild animals that live strictly by instincts, only they are more unpredictable (and alluring) than a captive white tiger.  You are just the hand that feeds and eventually bitten.


When they do think it is only to attach excess negativity to an event.  To dig deep into your every action and word to twist it into a negative, no matter if it was positive, negative, or neutral.  So promoting thought is almost always a bad idea, it's much easier to anticipate their instincts and react accordingly.

I really needed to read this. Thanks.