When a BPD apologises is it a manipulative tactic, or real?

[Moselle]

Yea, or she'll know you're talking about her... .And, yes, she will use it as weapon against her.

I remember what kind of stopped him, for some reason, was when I said, "I am getting too old for this."

Or, "Why do you make everything so ugly? It could never be two people in love? You always had to make the relationship so ugly?"

Or, "We both can't both be normal and we both can't be crazy. One of us is crazy."

If I said the last one, oddly, he never responded by, "You're crazy. "

Lastly, "I am not the first person you have called "insert name", so either multiple people you've met are "blank" it's you."

All those statements tended to pause him or stop him. What I never did... .but what may work is, saying, "You're mother was born in the 60s or 50s. You're grandmother in the 30s... .But this is 2014... .With all the advances in medicine, neuroscience and psychology, there is no reason why a person should not get assistance. There is a cure. There is hardly any stigma. Get cured."

GP, do you enjoy the game? Is it a challenge for you? ;-) Cos you sure know a lot about it

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PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Samuel S.]

Anyone can say "I am sorry". If they truly mean it, they will have learned from that, and they will not repeat the damaging words and/or the damaging actions. Then, it is not manipulation, but a sincere way to mend the relationship. If they apologize only to repeat what they had done previously, their words are meaningless.

In my particular situation, my BPDw has never apologized for any damaging words that she has spoken. Thus, it is very difficult to trust her and to frankly love her. She feels she is right, but God forbid that anyone should say something or do something that she feels offended by. She will be so upset.

I guess what we can determine is that a BPD who makes some sort of offense and learns and apologizes sincerely without repeating is worthy of our consideraion. After all, we are all human, and we all can make mistakes. Yet, if they are not honest and empathetic due to their own hurt from the past with them only lashing out, it is next to impossible for us who are affected to take their words seriously. They are best to be avoided, if at all possible.

[Moselle]

Anyone can say "I am sorry". If they truly mean it, they will have learned from that, and they will not repeat the damaging words and/or the damaging actions.

I guess what we can determine is that a BPD who makes some sort of offense and learns and apologizes sincerely without repeating is worthy of our consideraion. After all, we are all human, and we all can make mistakes. Yet, if they are not honest and empathetic due to their own hurt from the past with them only lashing out, it is next to impossible for us who are affected to take their words seriously. They are best to be avoided, if at all possible.

I agree with this. It is so tempting to return to these types of relationships. Especially if they are acting out the idealisation phase again. We get sucked back in hoping they've changed permanently.

But this is a cyclical disease with wonderful and horrible times, the frequecy of which beats to a drum which we are kept from hearing. I hear that it becomes more predictable over time.

I've accepted she wil never change, which was quite a step for me. So the querstion to ask is, do I love this person right now "As is". If I'm honest, I don't feel  that excited to make it work. I've begun to be myself again after 7 months of separation, and why would I return to something where my true self is not supported, but attacked by a person who's emotional survival is dependent on mirroring me, and annihilating my 'sense of self'.

I'm really interested in a relationship with someone who can reciprocate kindnesses, nurturing, respect and love. I've communicated this with my uBPDw and she is making the right noises, attending her therapy sessions on her own accord, and starting to challenge her perceptions. Is it real, or a manipulation. I just don't know. Do I trust her. A strong 'No'

[Gloria_Patch]

Lol... .No, but over the years, these were some of things I remember saying back. I don't think it's a game at all. That is why I am two months from my divorce being finalized. Too much immorality. Especially with a child.

[Moselle]

Lol... .No, but over the years, these were some of things I remember saying back. I don't think it's a game at all. That is why I am two months from my divorce being finalized. Too much immorality. Especially with a child.

The reason I ask is that, on an intellectual level, I find this stuff fascinating. Without this 7 month separation, I would never have had the severe introspection and subsequent clean out of my own issues like co-dependence which would have played out in any relationship with any woman. In a strange way I am actually grateful to have experienced this. Shall I continue? Heck no!

[Gloria_Patch]

I think when someone mirrors you, especially when they are doing it subconsciously/unintentionally, you feel you found your soulmate. I think it is natural being in love. And not wanting to let go of that person. It's like going through the constant honeymoon and funeral of a spouse. Everyone understands a grieving widow or widower. But we are also in that situation.

I personally believe mental illness should be taught in high school, just like drug and sex education. So people may identify if they are developing symptoms or identify if someone is displaying symptoms.

If I knew borderline existed, I really, highly doubt I would have entered the relationship. Do you think you would?

In addition, I think some people see a tad bit of good in a person and they believe that person must be good, and they dismiss the bad and forgive easily. Some people see bad as a telling sign and never forget.

[Moselle]

I think when someone mirrors you, especially when they are doing it subconsciously/unintentionally, you feel you found your soulmate. I think it is natural being in love. And not wanting to let go of that person. It's like going through the constant honeymoon and funeral of a spouse. Everyone understands a grieving widow or widower. But we are also in that situation.

If I knew borderline existed, I really, highly doubt I would have entered the relationship. Do you think you would?

No I would not have entered the relationship, I would have run a mile into someone elses arms, who probably had BPD :-)

Why? I think this is natures way of compensating. I was looking for my reflection. I was conditioned through my relationship with my mother (BP or NP) what to expect from a spouse. I was used to this and I was co-dependent.

But out of 'somewhere' eventually comes the idea that this is wrong, that I am worth more than this, and we say "No", "no more of that, thank you very much". We deviate by choice,  from the script we grew up with. I believe this 'somewhere'  is called midlife crisis.

And I'm choosing 'healthy' not dysfunction in my mid life, I'm choosing 'happy' not sad.

And I'm grateful for my BPD spouse because I would never have known this without her. Should I carry on loving my reflection. I cannot. To do so would fly in the face of my integrity. I know better thanks to GP and all the other folks on BPDfam 

Would I choose my mother again... .Well I don't remember making that choice ;-) LOL

[Gloria_Patch]

I agree. My mother had paranoid personality disorder. So, I think subconsciously, I developed the habit of forgiving a person's mentally ill flaws. There's something in their eyes that are similar - that helpless look even when being angry.

However, at the end, the compassion always won with my mother. For my husband, the evil wins. But then again, maybe his borderline coexists with sociopathy.

Another point is that I immediately felt comfortable with my husband, like conversation clicked effortlessly. Maybe that has something to do with mirroring. But, possibly, since we grew up with a personality disordered parent, we have some similiar way of seeing the world with apprehension.

[Moselle]

maybe his borderline coexists with sociopathy.

Another point is that I immediately felt comfortable with my husband, like conversation clicked effortlessly. Maybe that has something to do with mirroring. But, possibly, since we grew up with a personality disordered parent, we have some similiar way of seeing the world with apprehension.

I've wondered about the sociopathy in my W too. She has been cruel and admitted the cruelty to both me and the children. But I think it was the uncontrollable aspects of BPD driving it, the desire to lash out and the impulsiveness thereof. She shows quick moments of remorse for it, and then it is swallowed up in the FOG. I don't think a sociopath can feel the remorse even for an instant.

I agree 100% about seeing the world with apprehension together. It is the beginnings of the conflict cycle which plays over and over until someone stops it.

How are you doing regarding your separation? You seem to have made your mind up

[Gloria_Patch]

Yea, it's very difficult to detect sociopathy when another mental illness is very active... .especially, since BPDs are prone to paranoia. After all, no one feels for someone they perceive as evil attackers, which is how BPDs perceive us when they split black. But, I think it's a good idea to consider that sociopathy is a real possibility. His mother definitely is a sociopath with borderline. She's a nurse. She knew child services could take a 5 week old to a state facility. And babies carry emotional memory. The damage to my son could have been severe.

Also, possibly, your wife's remorse could be that for herself. But like I said, my friend really seems like a good person. So, I bet when she hurts her boyfriend, she feels bad for him (Her boyfriend has broken up with her).

The first two months of the separation were extremely difficult. Extremely, extremely, extremely difficult. He was my best friend and I loved him like family. The third month, the good memories started fading. The bad memories became stronger. Yet, I do not truly feel resentment towards him. I started reading the New Testament. I am Orthodox, so I have an Orthodox study bible that has footnotes. Since, I have a hard time comprehending certain things. And, I started reading and watching documentaries on neuroscience and childhood development. So, I don't blame him. So with my religion and from what I understand from neuroscience, he is not really to blame.

But if your spouse is dead, your spouse is dead. So, like any grieving process, you take it one day at a time. A therapist actually separated us, so he could go 30 days AA. So he has the therapist number. He doesn't get help. And, so he is dead. This last month I realized that I am no longer in love with him.

The main reason I was able to make a final decision really was my son. I didn't have a choice. It is not my luxury to let his destruction in.

But without a child, I still feel that choosing to stick with a borderline not in therapy (with sincere intention of getting better), then it's really a lifestyle choice. Like, if want to party like a rockstar in an open relationship. Bc you cannot achieve normalcy with them.

[Moselle]

The first two months of the separation were extremely difficult. Extremely, extremely, extremely difficult. He was my best friend and I loved him like family. The third month, the good memories started fading. The bad memories became stronger. Yet, I do not truly feel resentment towards him. I started reading the New Testament. I am Orthodox, so I have an Orthodox study bible that has footnotes. Since, I have a hard time comprehending certain things. And, I started reading and watching documentaries on neuroscience and childhood development. So, I don't blame him. So with my religion and from what I understand from neuroscience, he is not really to blame.

But without a child, I still feel that choosing to stick with a borderline not in therapy (with sincere intention of getting better), then it's really a lifestyle choice. Like, if want to party like a rockstar in an open relationship. Bc you cannot achieve normalcy with them.

Sorry to hear about the separation being difficult. Nature has its way of healing after a while. The memories fade and we carry on I guess. I think it's great that you feel no resentment for him. I battle with this!

I'm also not willing to accept my W's behaviours. I've given up trying to diagnose her. But I have stated very clearly what I want from a relationship, and many of those things fly in the face of BPD, like intimacy. I'm not willing to have a relationship without intimacy, so she has a tough choice to make.

The gap between what I want and what is possible will either get smaller because she is serious about treatment, or it gets bigger and one of us will just wake up one day and say "No more".

[Gloria_Patch]

I hope she gets treatment. It is a very, very bizarre disease. And unless, they are cutters or suicidal, they tend to never hit a rock bottom. If they lose a loved one, they will just think that the person was evil. I read that they make false accusations, out of rage, knowing it to be false, but then their brain will sincerely convince them that the person was capable of it anyway, so it is okay.

You said it's been 7 months? It will be nice if she gets treatment. I don't know how to persuade someone to do that.

[Mutt]

This thread has reached it's post limit. It's a good topic and you are welcome with starting a new thread. Thank you.