hi

[Katniss]

I have been married for twenty years to someone I believe suffers from BPD. I have been oftentimes exchausted but thought it was because of work and childrearing. Now I know it is my husband's anxiety, which is making me exchausted.

He has always been a bit strange but I thought we all have our foibles.  However, I have recently found he probably has been cheating on me all this time. Now I recognize all the symptoms and ways of operating, but am finding it difficult to leave. I have made the decision but he just would not let me go. From what I have read on this forum, I am probably suffering from codependence. But I know I cannot stay in this situation any longer. My main concern is my ten year old son who has been rather traumatised by the high level of anxiety at home.

Now when my husband is threatened that I will leave, he is behaving strangely. He is hiding things saying I have forgotten, he is saying I am imagining things, etc. I am trying to keep to the facts, which are rather straightforward (I believe he has all the symptoms of BPD) but at times I feel like going mad. I guess I am here just to gather strength to go through the first moment of separation when I do not know what he is going to do. It is difficult to suddenly leave after so many years given I have a small child. If it had not been for my son, I would have left a long time ago.

Not sure what I expect from others.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[OutOfEgypt]

Hi Katniss,



Welcome to the family!  I definitely feel for your situation, especially about how all the tension and insanity impacts our children.  It took me over 14 years to finally break away for good.  And yes, my ex cheated on me a number of times.  But there was also the lying, the controlling, the manipulation, the temper tantrums, the alienation from family and friends, and basically running the show solo (with children) for the majority of the marriage because of her depression, anxiety, not feeling good, too busy cheating on me, or whatever her excuse.  And yes, if it was not for my children I would have run away screaming a long time ago, aside from wanting to "fix myself" and do anything to have her just love me and think I'm "enough" again, like she did at the beginning.

I found the two articles below very helpful in understanding things and gaining perspective on how to begin dealing with things and letting go.  I came here, like you, already believing my s/o had BPD, but after being here for a bit, talking to others and reading articles, it blew my mind how accurately she falls into these patterns and descriptions.

Article 1: How a Borderline Personality Disorder Love Relationship Evolves

Before you can make things better, you have to stop making things worse - Staff Article

If you are serious and committed to separate, you may find this useful as well:

Article 10: Leaving a Partner with Borderline Personality Disorder

One of the things we do here in the New Members board is help new members find their "home board."  It sounds like you are still living with your BPD spouse and are working through your thought process about separation.  Is that accurate?  If so, then I encourage you to post some of your story to the Undecided Board: Staying or Leaving board.  The members there will be a good support to you, and the senior members can help assess if the board is a good fit for you.

[Katniss]

Hi OutofEgypt

Thank you for your reply. It is very useful both giving me pointers on where to post and what to read.

I guess I have posted on the separation board rather than the undecided one because I have already decided but am not sure how to go about it logistically. Therefore, it is not a matter of whether but how. In other words, my husband just would not let me go. Whenever I raise the issue of separation, he just does not accept it. Therefore, I would probably have to move out but I have done it before and I failed when he offered to me to come back to our house and he will move out. He did but then came back and stayed. My son was traumatisedd because of our moving out and now would like to stay in the house. So I would like to ask my husband to move out but he just would not listen.

Anyway, I will now to try to think how to go about moving him out. I am of course afraid of the drama and the blaming on me in front of my son. There are no boundaries of what he would not say in front of our son. I am definitely scared of it.

I am also currently in therapy. THe only problem is that the person does not seem to understand very well of what I am going through. There do not seem to be any specialists of BPD where I live.

Finding this place is a revelation for me because nobody seems to understand of what I am going through. They simply do not believe me when I say things: the lying, the manipulation, the control that you mention.

Katniss

[OutOfEgypt]

Hi Katniss,

What you say makes sense.  And I totally understand.  While my ex did not fight me, really, to keep the relationship, during our final recycle it was a *chore* to get her out of my house.  What was originally her idea (that we be "just friends", turned once I found out about some infidelity and told her "I'm done.  Get out."  It took about four months for her to go.  (We were already divorced and had tried to make it work one more time, so even then I already had the advantage of having the house be legally mine, since we were divorced).  She cried, she became "depressed", she threw things, she would call me at work and in the middle of the night, she promised to go this weekend, then the next, then the next, dragging it out.  Ugh.  And meanwhile, I had to live like it wasn't even my own house, since I was careful to avoid being around her while alone -so that she would have less grounds to lie about me.  Awful.

She thinks that makes me "paranoid," but she has shown me with her actions that when she feels control slipping away and things aren't going the way she wants, she will lie, cheat, steal, manipulate, and lie some more, all while calling it "self protection".

I'm sure you have found that there is a board about divorce, too.  I wound up doing an "amicable" divorce, which means I basically have to pay her an arm and a leg in spousal and child support and we have joint custody.  I did this because I believed it would reduce overall conflict and drama that my children would have to live through.  She proved to me quite clearly that if I was going to pursue something like custody that she was going to lie and basically do anything to make sure I didn't get that.  Of course, I am a man so in spite of how they try to say it is "equal", favor generally goes to the woman out of the gate when it comes to the children.

I also realized that even if I did "win", all her talks of keeping things private from the kids would go out the window.  She runs her mouth about me right in front of them, sometimes to them, whenever she is mad at me.  This doesn't mean I need to walk on eggshells.  But it does mean that if I avoid doing what she views as a "competition", it will reduce that and the kids will get to see on their own what she is like.  And they are.  It is a tough tension, for sure.

If you went for a divorce, depending on where you live you could ask the judge for an "eclusive use order" which gives you exclusive use of the house during the divorce, arguing that you are the primary parent/caretaker for the kids and need the house.  He would be served the order and the police would wait there while he gathered things and left.  This might, of course, set off a roller-coaster of conflict, but in the end, isn't this about taking our lives back and refusing to walk on eggshells any longer?

[OutOfEgypt]

You may also found this helpful as a starting point:

Leaving a Partner with Borderline Personality Disorder

[vortex of confusion]

Finding this place is a revelation for me because nobody seems to understand of what I am going through. They simply do not believe me when I say things: the lying, the manipulation, the control that you mention.

I am new here as well. My husband is a sex addict but the literature about being the wife of a sex addict did not even come close to accounting for my husband's behavior. I don't know if he is BPD but so many of the things that I have read here sound so familiar to my experiences. To an outsider, it looks like I am the crazy one because I tend to be open to others and I talk a lot. I can say that my husband lies and manipulates and controls but others don't see that because his control is so subtle. It is the nagging and the badgering. It is invading my private space including badgering me about what the kids and I are laughing about. If I don't give him a sufficient answer, he keeps asking until I give him the answer he wants. People see me as the one that is more outgoing. They see me as the one that is more likely to be abusive because of my intense personality. I am strong person in all other areas of my life so people either won't listen to what I am saying or they try to make excuses for him and tell me that I am being too hard on him.

I tried to get a bit of space but my husband wouldn't go for it. I finally went to my dad and my dad gave me the money and pretty much said, "You tell him to take a week off of work to be with the kids and take care of them so that you can get some space." That is what I did. Being away for that week was so eye opening. I felt so capable. I wasn't being treated like a child. People talked to me like I was a person. It was rough because he kept calling and texting. The kids didn't want to be with him and gave him a lot of trouble so he would call me and ask me what to do. My oldest had to step in and help with her sisters because he was clueless.

I can really relate to feeling like a single parent. I do almost all of the parenting. He put the kids to bed one night and then spent a week bragging about it and how great it was that he put the kids to bed ONE time.

I have given up on the idea of leaving for now. I am in search of support and am trying to build a support network to help me overcome some of my own issues and separate from him in the sense that the two of us are so enmeshed that I don't know where I end and he begins.

I have been silently dealing with this stuff for all of our marriage and was really beginning to think that I am the one that is completely crazy.

[Reforming]

Hi Katniss  

I'd like to add my welcome to Out of Egypt's  .

Well done for finding the site and well done for posting  

Living with someone's else anxiety and erratic behaviour can be enormously stressful and draining. It sounds like you're dealingl with very difficult circumstances very well.


"However, I have recently found he probably has been cheating on me all this time".

I know from my own experience that discovering that your partner had been cheating is devastating and shocking.

How are you feeling right now?

If at all possible try to be kind to yourself in whatever way you can. You deserve it


"Now I recognize all the symptoms and ways of operating, but am finding it difficult to leave. I have made the decision but he just would not let me go."



Even in the best of circumstances most people find the process of disengaging from a marriage or long term relationship a daunting and exhausting process.

Endings are hard and it's completely natural to feel overwhelmed, uncertain and struggle to take action. Longterm relationship rarely finish with one neat action and the ending usually happens over a period of time where we experience roller coster of mixed emotions and confusion.

BPD adds a whole other dimension to the process and can leave partners feeling exhausted and powerless to act.

It sounds like you've been doing your best in very difficult circumstances. Well done    and please try not to judge yourself right now

Is there any friend or family member that you could discuss your situation with? Even if they don't fully understand the dynamics of your relationship it helps a lot to have somewhere where you can escape the turmoil and stress.


"From what I have read on this forum, I am probably suffering from codependence".

Many members here, including myself, have recognised our tendency towards codependent relationships and have worked to correct or reduce these traits. Recognising those tendencies is great first step to healing.  

Senior members will be able to help and advise you and there are some excellent articles on the subject and some useful book recommendations.

https://bpdfamily.com/content/codependency-codependent-relationships


"But I know I cannot stay in this situation any longer. My main concern is my ten year old son who has been rather traumatised by the high level of anxiety at home."

I can understand your desire to end the current situation and your concern for yourself and your son. It's smart and sensible to seek support and guidance, especially when there's children involved. Formulating a well thought through and practical exit strategy is the best way to protect you and your son and minimise the disruption to your lives and possible damage to your future relationships

Whatever happens you and your partner will be co-parenting your son so the skills that Out of Egypt has directed you would be very helpful

Out of Egypt has already directed you some really helpful resources on this site that might help to understand the disorder and help formulate and plan and withdrawal strategy. This can help you try to minimise the disruption to you, your son and your partner.

Have you explored ways of ending the relationship with your therapist? Even if they don't fully understand the dynamics of BPD they should be able to advise on you on a withdrawal strategy. Whatever you chose to do it is probably worth getting legal advice to clarify your situation

For the moment please remember that we will always be glad to hear form you here and we all will do our best to help and support you in whatever ways we can. Many of us have walked the same road as you and come through very difficult circumstances much happier and healthier than we ever believed possible

I'm very sorry for all the heartbreak and pain you've been through, but I'm really happy that you have found us and I hope to hear from you soon

Reforming

[Katniss]

Hi Reforming

Thank you for your email and understanding. Your advice is useful and I have already done a lot of the things you suggest.

I have been trying to understand what is going on for the past six months and now after extensive research on BPD I think I have a grasp of what I can expect and what I have not seen. However, it is a rather lonely process because my husband is Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde. He is intelligent and his manipulation is skillful indeed, which means that a lot of people think that he is an OK person (although some notice perhaps a bit of oddity). Of course some of his condition transpires at work where he is prone to conflict but he also tries to control himself there.

In terms of support from friends and family, it is really difficult for me to share with them what I think, I have found out.He has also isolated me from some of my friends. For my mum, who is really helpful, I think it is rather shocking and it seems it is difficult for her to comprehend it, especially if you have no real proof (even though circumstantial evidence seems to be beyond doubt). I think that what I called cheating is a much bigger problem for my husband. If he was addicted to alcohol, it would be so much easier to prove because you can see it and you can smell it. But if someone engages in risky sex, how do you really prove it if their work demands travel. When I confront him he says I am paranoid, etc. Yes, finding out was difficult but I think I have come now to the moment when I do not feel the need to prove anything. I just do not want to be in this situation of distrust anymore. And it is enough for me not to accept it and not to explain anything else.

One more reason of concern for me is that I am rather worried that my son starts to display traits of the disorder. I know it is partly a hereditary condition and partly environmental but I am afraid we are not currently a very peaceful family. I feel myself that I am suffering from a high level of anxiety, even paranoid thinking (my husband seems to be hiding things or checking on my phone and computer). I try to use techniques suggested for dealing with people with BPD but I can see that at times I am very stressed out. It is hard to find out that your spouse is suffering from mental disease, that most probably he is engaging in risky sex, and that your son may have inherited it and not to be able to talk about it openly also because you are worried about the stigma or even a job.

Katniss

[Reforming]

Hi Katniss,

I found understanding the illness a challenge, and that was after extensive reading and research. Like you, I learnt that friends and even close family didn't really believe me when I tried to explain. In fairness to them, unless you have lived with it and experienced it first had it can be very hard to accept the illness, especially when many BPD can conceal the disorder from everyone bar their most immediate family.

So it's all to common to find yourself isolated from your friends and family and left feeling lonely and hopeless. The good news is that you've come to the right place and now you're amongst people who believe and understand the reality of your situation.

I found living with the possibility or prospect of infidelity incredibly hard. You end up living in a state of high alert and it's incredibly stressful and exhausting.

I can understand your concern for your son, but my understanding of the disorder and I'm not an expert is that while genetics may play some role in BPD, it is primarily a developmental disorder.

Marital difficulties are stressful for everyone involved, children included, but you seem to be a very good and responsible mother. I'm not suggesting that you son is unaffected by husband's behaviour but it sounds like you've been doing a great job and having a good mother will have a huge impact on his future happiness and mental health.

Well done for trying to use the skills,  many members find them incredibly useful though the are not that easy to master. They take time and perseverance, which is a real challenge when you are already dealing with a lot.

However they may well be be useful to you now and in the future as with a child involved I assume that you'll probably want to maintain some relationship with your husband.

If you have any questions that you'd like to ask please don't hesitate to post. Some of the senior members may be able share some advice and insights that will you.

As I said try to be gentle on yourself, you're going through a very difficult time. Can you get away for a short break to you mum's or friends?

Even small little kindnesses to yourself can really help

However dark and hopeless things seem at the moment please believe me that there is hope and light ahead.

And please keep posting

Reforming

[Katniss]

Hi Vortex of Confusion

It is interesting what you are writing that your husband is so open about things. My husband would never admit and lies constantly. However, even though he is very good at lying, once I have noticed it I know. If I could prove things to him, it seems it would be so much easier. He knows it and is desperate to hide things. But it starts not to matter because I have understood and am getting strength to simply say 'I am leaving because I am not happy and it is an enough reason to leave'. I do not think it is good for my son to be in this bizarre situation.

Katniss

[Katniss]

Hi Reforming

Yes, it seems that research confirms that BPD is very much a developmental disorder but this is what worries me: a divorce is a risk factor. But so is staying with someone with BPD. It seems like 'no win' situation and it is only the choice of a lesser evil.

Yes, I would like to stay in contact with my husband because my son loves him. All children love their parents and it is not good not to let them see them. And this is what worries me. It would be so much easier to cut off any contact as clearly I have some problems having fallen in love with someone who most probably has BPD. I guess I have to work out a way of communication that keeps firm boundaries but I am so desperately afraid of him saying awful things about me/to me in front of my son. That is why I do walk on eggshells now. Because I am not happy about it I am leaving but will have to somehow manage contact later on.

Katniss

[Katniss]

Hi

After thinking and posting, I am at last able to say why leaving is so difficult and what kind of advice I need.

Leaving is difficult because my husband tries to frantically avoid it and I am not sure what he is going to do. In particular, it seems to me he is using my son (who is only 10) as a pawn because he knows I care about him. So he is using all sorts of tactics how bad a divorce would be for him tapping into my very real fears. In practice, it may mean he will not move out or try to prevent me moving out. I am afraid of my son witnessing these emotional dramas.

Therefore, what I need is advice on any articles on how to handle it. I have found some advice on this website about leaving someone with BPD but they do not really seem to take into account the complexity of divorce when children are involved, and someone with BPD.

The usual advice to take children's needs into account does not apply to my husband because he becomes so preoccupied with the avoidance techniques that nothing matters. Just to give you an example, we talk and I ask him to keep his voice down because our son is sleeping. He seems unable to do it. Nothing matters when he is under stress.

Katniss

[Reforming]

Hi Katniss,

I understand your concerns and I'm not for a minute suggesting that your situation isn't complicated or difficult.

One of the most challenging parts of living with a disordered person is establishing healthy boundaries. I didn't really understand what they were or why they are so important, but I can now see they are a crucial part of being healthy and protecting yourself. They help us really define what is our responsibility and what is not, something that can be very useful when you're making tough and painful decisions.

Whatever course you choose you are not responsible for your husband's choices or actions - only your own.

It might be worth reading this article on boundaries. I found it really helpful

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=61684.0

You'll also find a lot of posts discussing problems similar to yours on the other boards

PERSPECTIVES: Is it better for the kids if I stay or leave?  https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=61666.0

There are many other members who used Limited Contact, to help them manage their relationship with a BPD ex

This is real good workshop discussion on the process of disengaging from a relationship including limited contact and it also touches on the the complexities when there are children involved.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=61980.0

Whatever you choose to do, it's probably well worth working on some of the core stills that Out of Egypt suggested and the article on Boundaries is very important.

I'd also suggest that you use the search option to search for posts made by members. There are a treasure trove of insights from people who have gone through what you're experiencing right now.

You will also get some advice from the senior members who may well be able to offer your other guidance.

Keep posting and keep reading

Talk to you soon

Reforming

[DreamFlyer99]

but I think I have come now to the moment when I do not feel the need to prove anything. I just do not want to be in this situation of distrust anymore. And it is enough for me not to accept it and not to explain anything else.

Katniss

What you said above shows that you feel pretty firm about your decision, and that keeps it uncomplicated. You don't want to be treated this way anymore. That will help you make boundaries in a firm way as well to protect the ways you would LIKE to be treated. You can choose toward respect by the way you learn to keep a boundary around that.

Do have a look at the Undecided Board and especially pay attention to the "Stop the Bleeding" tools to the right. Those can help you in the moment for less triggering communication with your husband.

There's a lot of talking and acting driven by the fear of abandonment done by the person with BPD when we talk about boundaries/respect/leaving. Words haven't been helpful with my uBPDh (undiagnosed BPD husband) so my therapist has guided me toward living my boundaries. Basically that means that if I have a boundary that I've made to protect against his disrespect, I remove myself from the disrespectful situation. I act on it rather than talk about it. That does help when dealing with the FOG of words (Fear Obligation Guilt) that can descend on us when they feel threatened.

Having an exit strategy if you find you hit a certain point is excellent.

And my husband is very charming and clever, so I've seen the same thing where he can make me sound pretty out-there to people who haven't seen what he does at home. It's hard.