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Author Topic: You will start to attract much healthier people into you life when you do this.  (Read 6004 times)
Visitor
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« on: August 24, 2014, 02:43:22 AM »

The problem I am hearing with a lot of people on this forum is a lot of you don't have any clear boundaries.

I left my borderline ex during the idolization stage which is almost unheard of in the BPD community. She was heartbroken and begged for me to reconsider but she had already trampled my boundaries and it was unacceptable for me.

Here are some of the things I just said NO to:

Proclaiming her love for me to early

Calling me crying all the time

Jealous behaviour

Raging and shouting at me for the smallest of things

Always pushing for the next stage in the relationship/forcing things forward.

Moaning at me for going out with a long time friend that she didn't like. 

It got to the point that I just said sorry but I just don't see things working out and left her. It seems I could do this earlier than a lot of you because I was willing to be alone. I had faith in myself as a person that I would attract the opposite sex again due to the great person I am. I trusted that life always works out in the end and you have to create some space from that other person for it to happen.

Don't let the idolization she has or had for you blur these boundaries. It's a very powerful thing for a person to be able to walk away if these are not being respected. Arguing about your boundaries will not work. You have to show that you are an independent person who would rather be alone than take any crap from anybody.

Stop giving you partner the power. Draw those lines in the sand and be willing to walk away if they are crossed.  Being cool (click to insert in post)

You will start to attract much healthier people into you life when you do this.

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« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2014, 03:30:51 AM »

Hi visitor,

A lot of people here are stuggling with their wounds and go here for understanding and support and also for advice. We know we didnt do it all the "right" way, therefore we have left our BPD partners, maybe too late, but we did manage to do it! Hooray for us!

I was not brought up in a home where I was allowed to set boundaries. My father made all our decisions, from sports, hobby, education. We had to do it his way and be good at it too, otherwise we would not be validated or loved. Add to that the sexual abuse I had to endure from 4 to 11 years of age by an authority figure... .That didnt help with learning to set boundaries... .So I was easy pray... .It has nothing to do with not being willing to be alone! I was alone for a couple of years and enjoyed it! I was happy and felt good about myself... .I still think I am a good person!

For you it may come natural to set boundaries easy. Many of us didnt learn that or never had to... .  To be honest... .I sometimes dont even know what MY boundaries are, let alone how to set them and guard them. Its not as easy as you make it sound sometimes. But I am glad for you that you are very good at it.

I am seeing a T to manage to do this, and I WILL succeed. Like you said, I deserve a healthy relationship in my life.
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hergestridge
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« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2014, 04:21:22 AM »

The thing is, I said NO to all those things too. All those 20 years ago. I said no and told her that this has to change, we have to work on this. And then I was told, by my now xwife, by various health professionals and by other people around me that this was indeed possible.

And the dr Jekyll and mr Hyde, that is what BPD is all about. That's why so many of us don't give up and leave. That's why people stay with a part time alcoholic too. They go back to being "nice", again and again.

The penny eventually drops when you realise the "bad" days is not a anomally, like a flu or even a psychosis. It's part of their personality. You can't have "nice" without that other thing.
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« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2014, 04:25:27 AM »

Hi visitor,

A lot of people here are stuggling with their wounds and go here for understanding and support and also for advice. We know we didnt do it all the "right" way, therefore we have left our BPD partners, maybe too late, but we did manage to do it! Hooray for us!

I was not brought up in a home where I was allowed to set boundaries. My father made all our decisions, from sports, hobby, education. We had to do it his way and be good at it too, otherwise we would not be validated or loved. Add to that the sexual abuse I had to endure from 4 to 11 years of age by an authority figure... .That didnt help with learning to set boundaries... .So I was easy pray... .It has nothing to do with not being willing to be alone! I was alone for a couple of years and enjoyed it! I was happy and felt good about myself... .I still think I am a good person!

For you it may come natural to set boundaries easy. Many of us didnt learn that or never had to... .  To be honest... .I sometimes dont even know what MY boundaries are, let alone how to set them and guard them. Its not as easy as you make it sound sometimes. But I am glad for you that you are very good at it.

I am seeing a T to manage to do this, and I WILL succeed. Like you said, I deserve a healthy relationship in my life.

Hi Recoop

Thank you for the reply and I note your responses. What you and many people have gone through are experiences. And nothing teaches us more in life than an experience. Heartbreak can be one of the best lessons a person can go though in life.

The tragedy sometimes is some people just don't learn. When the emotions have subsided they end up back in the same situations because they haven't worked on themselves. They haven't worked on their inner core and allowed the experience to build on their character.

I was also week, insecure, had a low self esteem and very much lacked boundaries.  But I learned from my experiences in life and use them to help shape who I am as a person.

An insecure person will want to bring you down. Control you and take out their anger on you. They will take from you as much as you give them. If you don't have boundaries they will trample over you and wont give a damn. Why?... because you are letting them do it. If there are not consequences to our actions then we will repeat that behaviour again and again and again.

The idolization phase is the real demon. It's the first dose of crack cocaine the drug dealer gives to a person to get them addicted. The first one is free but then you have to start paying the price. The addict will spend a long time chasing that first high but they never find it. All the time losing friends, family, money and then finally their soul. An external force has a power over them now and the only way they can change it is if they wake up to it and rid of their lives for good.

I would say to anybody stuck in this chaos to take a bit of time out and really think about what your boundaries are. There doesn't have to be hundreds of them maybe just five or 6.

1. I do not except cheating any shape or form. If this happens I am gone

2. I will not accept being called horrible names

3. The silent treatment is for children. If you give me the silent treatment then see you later I'm going out to have some fun. Let me know if you're ready to stop sulking.

4.  Any form of violence is completely unacceptable in all shapes and forms with no exception.

5. If you want to discuss something then I am open to a calm conversation. I understand that all couples argue but a full on rage attack with shouting is unacceptable.

There is no excuse to let somebody trample that boundary no matter how beautiful, successful or stuck on you they once were. NO EXCUSE. I don't care if she starts crying all the time or tells you she is in therapy and TRYING to change. I don't care if she has a horrible past and it is now affecting her future. These are your boundaries and if she is to be with you then she had better bloody well respect them or he/she is out of the door. This is the difference between a good boundary and a shaky one. The shaky one can be affected by all of the above. A good boundary is a solid form of defence.

When you set these clear boundaries with your partner you are putting your power in your own hands. You are owning yourself and her/his behaviour then becomes their problem and not yours.

The problem a lot of you don't seem to understand is this is what your partner REALLY WANTS. There's nothing more unattractive than a partner who lets you get away with whatever you want. I'm sure you have all experience that when you meet somebody with strong principles who is willing to walk away from you they become very attractive and you want them more.

If you are not being treated how you want to be treated then walk away. Don't try to change the other person and try to convince them to respect you. That is just weak. Show them you are willing to walk away and watch their behaviour change in an instant. If they let you walk away then that should tell you all you need to know about the relationship.

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hergestridge
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« Reply #4 on: August 24, 2014, 04:36:34 AM »

I'm sure you have all experience that when you meet somebody with strong principles who is willing to walk away from you they become very attractive and you want them more.

No.
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Visitor
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« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2014, 04:41:04 AM »

The thing is, I said NO to all those things too. All those 20 years ago. I said no and told her that this has to change, we have to work on this. And then I was told, by my now xwife, by various health professionals and by other people around me that this was indeed possible.

And the dr Jekyll and mr Hyde, that is what BPD is all about. That's why so many of us don't give up and leave. That's why people stay with a part time alcoholic too. They go back to being "nice", again and again.

The penny eventually drops when you realise the "bad" days is not a anomally, like a flu or even a psychosis. It's part of their personality. You can't have "nice" without that other thing.

Well done herg it sounds like you have learned from the experience which is character building.

I would like to give you all a bit of a lesson about how to communicate a boundary. One example  is giving the other person the power and the other one is keeping the power to yourself.

Bad Example

You're partner has just belittled you in some way and made you feel bad. This is what you say:

"You always say horrible things like that. You make me feel bad all the time... why cant you just be nice and communicate properly instead of shouting at me all the time"

What you have just communicated: you have the power to make me feel good or bad whenever you want. What you say dictates my mood so please act a certain way so that I do not feel bad. (you have given them the power)

Good Example:

"Nobody talks to me like that ever. If you talk to me like that again then I/you are out the door. I can do just fine on my own"

(only works if backed up with actions)

What you have communicated: You don't have any power over how I feel about myself. That behaviour is unacceptable and I wont stand for it. I am willing to walk away if I am disrespected.




Do you understand the sub-communication of this?









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« Reply #6 on: August 24, 2014, 04:46:31 AM »

I'm sure you have all experience that when you meet somebody with strong principles who is willing to walk away from you they become very attractive and you want them more.

No.

Then you are lacking meeting a person of quality in your life.

BPD's attract a certain person into their life because a pwBPD is an ego boost. They often attract people with low self esteem who usually have issues with co-dependency and insecurities.

When you set clear boundaries and principles you will start to weed out people like this from your life and you will start to attract quality people in who give back in the relationship without you having to try to change them.





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BuildingFromScratch
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« Reply #7 on: August 24, 2014, 05:20:56 AM »

I agree with what you are saying visitor, that we need to be more emotionally healthy and strong, and stick up for ourselves more. But everything isn't so clear cut. I for instance stood up to her a lot at first, but eventually I felt so traumatized by everything, that my brain shut down and I basically had a 12 year long anxiety attack. At that point did I have a choice? I really didn't, I was barely a person after that.

And I'm sorry, if a person treats you like TOTAL crap, I don't really care if they want me to stick up to them. It doesn't justify treating people like crap, especially the person closest to you. This is akin to saying, "this wife beater guy really wanted his battered wife to stick up for herself" We were abused into oblivion and tricked. Yes we were messed up to end up with them, and we can avoid it next time. But right now we are victims trying to recover.

Personally I'd rather have a person with a soft heart, who is honest. Than some person on an ego trip who confronts people over trivial stuff. I know some people find it attractive to be on an ego trip, but I never have, nor ever will.

PS: I did stick up for myself and when I tried to break it off with her is when she would abuse me the most. Until I couldn't function again... .my brain literally could not emotionally comprehend the stuff she was doing to me. Probably because she tricked me so damn well at the beginning.
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« Reply #8 on: August 24, 2014, 05:38:32 AM »

I'm sure you have all experience that when you meet somebody with strong principles who is willing to walk away from you they become very attractive and you want them more.

No.

Then you are lacking meeting a person of quality in your life.

BPD's attract a certain person into their life because a pwBPD is an ego boost. They often attract people with low self esteem who usually have issues with co-dependency and insecurities.

When you set clear boundaries and principles you will start to weed out people like this from your life and you will start to attract quality people in who give back in the relationship without you having to try to change them.



You are posting on the "leaving" board where many of us have already left their partners. Many of us have went through the process of setting boundaries for a long time.

I don't become more attracted be people if they threaten to leave me. I just assume we are not a good match and lose interest. You are assuming we are much more alike than we in fact are.
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« Reply #9 on: August 24, 2014, 05:54:36 AM »

I think for me it was more about me disrespecting my own boundaries. I mean all along, I knew that my boundaries were being crossed but I chose to ignore that. Why? Because for the first time in my life I was experiencing "JOY". And it seemed to me that I had finally found true happiness and I did not want to let it go. For the first time in my life, life finally had a meaning. I wanted to live. I enjoyed being alive. And in order to keep that happiness, I did not care what I had to give away, including my boundaries.

Hadn't he abandoned me, I was probably still in that relationship.

Back then I did not think that I was not taking care of myself. I thought I was sacrificing things to be happy. As painful as it was I thought I was doing the right thing for myself.

Do normal people give away their happiness to hold onto their boundaries? And why is that?
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« Reply #10 on: August 24, 2014, 06:15:16 AM »

Hi Visitor,

I am sure you mean very well and have no ill at heart. I must say though, although you are right about setting boundaries, We are all here to learn and grow, we are all wounded and although we need to learn lessons in life to make our lifes healthier, I feel there are better ways to communicate here on the board.

I admire the way you are able to set YOUR boundaries, I must honestly say your way of setting boundaries would not be my way of doing it. People are different and that is ok, we all have to find our way that fits to our personality.

I am sure We have all met people of good quality in our lifes... .If not a partner then a friend or parent etc. And what is a definition of good quality. We all look for different traits in people... .

I also do not believe I was weak for trying to  "change" my exBPD and standing by him in therapy. I think it takes a damn strong person to be willing to hang in there and give someone a chance.  When the therapy went sour and he quit I  did leave. I know for myself I have done eveything I can to make it work. No weakness in that... .



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« Reply #11 on: August 24, 2014, 07:14:44 AM »

WOW! All the answers. Who would have thought was so simple.  Being cool (click to insert in post)
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Visitor
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« Reply #12 on: August 24, 2014, 01:28:45 PM »

WOW! All the answers. Who would have thought was so simple.  Being cool (click to insert in post)

Sarcasm (and emotions    ) aside yes it really is that simple.

We shouldn't be offended by words like, weak, needy, low self esteem etc. They are all human traits and all things that can be worked on. We should be the harshest critics of ourselves when it comes to these negative emotions. That's not to say we should concentrate on the bad parts of ourselves but we should use this time post break up to work out why this happened, what attracted us to such a person and why didn't we push the ejector seat button much sooner.

It's easy to blame the person with BPD but lets take full responsibility. Lets not take the power fully out of that person hands and so this happened because I let it happen and for no other reason. Your BPD partner will have loaded the responsibility onto you so they have no basis to make any changes. How can a person change if they don't take responsibility first.

It was you that fell for idolization, it was you that tried to change another person, it was you that accepted that horrible behaviour and allowed it to continue. You had the power to stop the relationship any time you wanted but because of reasons that probably related to you wanting to be with that person and not wanting to be alone you let it continue.

You CHOSE to stay/be in that relationship. It was your CHOICE and nobody else's fault.

When you except responsibility you can make the changes to make sure it doesn't happen again.













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Visitor
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« Reply #13 on: August 24, 2014, 01:34:47 PM »

I agree with what you are saying visitor, that we need to be more emotionally healthy and strong, and stick up for ourselves more. But everything isn't so clear cut. I for instance stood up to her a lot at first, but eventually I felt so traumatized by everything, that my brain shut down and I basically had a 12 year long anxiety attack. At that point did I have a choice? I really didn't, I was barely a person after that.

And I'm sorry, if a person treats you like TOTAL crap, I don't really care if they want me to stick up to them. It doesn't justify treating people like crap, especially the person closest to you. This is akin to saying, "this wife beater guy really wanted his battered wife to stick up for herself" We were abused into oblivion and tricked. Yes we were messed up to end up with them, and we can avoid it next time. But right now we are victims trying to recover.

Personally I'd rather have a person with a soft heart, who is honest. Than some person on an ego trip who confronts people over trivial stuff. I know some people find it attractive to be on an ego trip, but I never have, nor ever will.

PS: I did stick up for myself and when I tried to break it off with her is when she would abuse me the most. Until I couldn't function again... .my brain literally could not emotionally comprehend the stuff she was doing to me. Probably because she tricked me so damn well at the beginning.

I hear what you are saying build and I'm sorry to hear your sad story.

These people really do take their toll on a persons emotions.

Do you feel you would be susceptible to this again or have you taken anything from the experience?

What would you do if your next partner started to show the same pattern of behaviour in your next relationship?

What action would you take?



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« Reply #14 on: August 24, 2014, 01:39:27 PM »

Good Example:

"Nobody talks to me like that ever. If you talk to me like that again then I/you are out the door. I can do just fine on my own"

(only works if backed up with actions)

Do you understand the sub-communication of this?

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maternal
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« Reply #15 on: August 24, 2014, 01:44:49 PM »

I agree with this wholeheartedly.  Regardless of whatever sort of brainwashing my ex did to me, I still allowed it all.  Even while he baited me with his bull___, I did not do what I should have done and left.  I knew it then, and I know it even better now. 

The tricky part is that before him, I was a big boundary setter and keeper in regard to my relationships.  I am still working through how this one was able to get through.
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« Reply #16 on: August 24, 2014, 01:52:44 PM »

I normally have great boundaries, but my BPD targeted me just days after I broke up with someone and was in a bad place. She picked her target and her moment, and spent time preparing me for the kill. I did stand up to her for a while, but she chipped away at me piece by piece. I finished with her several time, but she was very persistent with her sincere fake apologies and changing her ways for a while. She also picked the optimum times to play up - usually very late at night when I was tired and not able to think effectively, or at the end of a particularly nice day, when I had my guard down. It's easier said than done. Looking back, I'm not sure if I was strong or weak. I kicked her out a number of times and refused to give in to her insane demands - strong. But she always recycled me in the end, and left when she was ready - leaving me feeling deep guilt and misery - weak. I'm getting myself into a position now with clear boundaries and restored self confidence so this nightmare can not happen ever again. I will stick to unbreakable rules - once my boundaries are broken in future, it's over for good.
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« Reply #17 on: August 24, 2014, 03:21:33 PM »

I hear what you are saying build and I'm sorry to hear your sad story.

These people really do take their toll on a persons emotions.

Do you feel you would be susceptible to this again or have you taken anything from the experience?

What would you do if your next partner started to show the same pattern of behaviour in your next relationship?

What action would you take?

It will be a long time before I ever want to be with another person. When I got into the relationship I was overly trusting and always believed the best in people. Now I barely trust anything. If and when next time happens, I will be cautious and trust slowly. But more than anything I want to love and complete myself, before I bother with intimacy. I don't think it could happen again, I know all the crazy warning signs that I ignored. If I did though, I'd run for the moon before I'd put up with it again.
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« Reply #18 on: August 24, 2014, 04:01:17 PM »

Dear Visitor

Although your point--I think--is to say that we should take responsibility for our actions in a the relationships. This is certainly a fair point. Most of us here did not realize what we were dealing with until it was too late. As with any issue people deal with it in different ways.

Some people can have a drink and be fine. Others drink until the become alcoholics. Most alcoholics did not intend to become alcoholics when they took their first drink but it happened. It made them feel good in the beginning.

Coming to an AA meeting and saying I had a drink and I am not an alcoholic what is the problem. Just stop drinking. Problem solved... .

This is how you sound to me.

If you don't have a problem with boundaries that is great for you! You can move on and have no fear of ever having a hurtful borderline line relationship.

I personally had great boundaries in the beginning and still found myself in a mess of a relationship because of my misplaced compassion and other issues. As have many people here.

Do you you understand that? 

   
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« Reply #19 on: August 24, 2014, 04:15:21 PM »

Part of me hopes I meet another BPD ... .Just so I can deal with them properly this time and prove I learned!
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« Reply #20 on: August 24, 2014, 04:46:16 PM »

WOW! All the answers. Who would have thought was so simple.  Being cool (click to insert in post)

Sarcasm (and emotions     aside yes it really is that simple.

We shouldn't be offended by words like, weak, needy, low self esteem etc. They are all human traits and all things that can be worked on. We should be the harshest critics of ourselves when it comes to these negative emotions. That's not to say we should concentrate on the bad parts of ourselves but we should use this time post break up to work out why this happened, what attracted us to such a person and why didn't we push the ejector seat button much sooner.

It's easy to blame the person with BPD but lets take full responsibility. Lets not take the power fully out of that person hands and so this happened because I let it happen and for no other reason. Your BPD partner will have loaded the responsibility onto you so they have no basis to make any changes. How can a person change if they don't take responsibility first.

It was you that fell for idolization, it was you that tried to change another person, it was you that accepted that horrible behaviour and allowed it to continue. You had the power to stop the relationship any time you wanted but because of reasons that probably related to you wanting to be with that person and not wanting to be alone you let it continue.

You CHOSE to stay/be in that relationship. It was your CHOICE and nobody else's fault.

When you except responsibility you can make the changes to make sure it doesn't happen again.



Do you mine if I ask you to change your name to Arrogant Visitor?








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« Reply #21 on: August 24, 2014, 06:28:29 PM »

I think for me it was more about me disrespecting my own boundaries. I mean all along, I knew that my boundaries were being crossed but I chose to ignore that. Why? Because for the first time in my life I was experiencing "JOY". And it seemed to me that I had finally found true happiness and I did not want to let it go. For the first time in my life, life finally had a meaning. I wanted to live. I enjoyed being alive. And in order to keep that happiness, I did not care what I had to give away, including my boundaries.

Hadn't he abandoned me, I was probably still in that relationship.

Back then I did not think that I was not taking care of myself. I thought I was sacrificing things to be happy. As painful as it was I thought I was doing the right thing for myself.

i could have written this 
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« Reply #22 on: August 24, 2014, 07:22:56 PM »

Excerpt
Stop giving you partner the power. Draw those lines in the sand and be willing to walk away if they are crossed.

I'm glad you were able to walk away before you got hurt Visitor.  It also sounds like you have a somewhat avoidant attachment style, where if anyone threatens your independence you're outta there.  Sure, being alone is always an option, but nowhere near as good as being in a great relationship, and in great relationships partners challenge each other and build partnerships, let go of the need to control, become interdependent, all of which requires letting the walls down and letting someone in.  Granted, letting someone with a personality disorder in is a bad move, but a great relationship can't happen without it.
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« Reply #23 on: August 24, 2014, 08:32:53 PM »

well Visitor, i do have to agree with most of the points you are making regarding boundaries, etc. however, i also have to agree with another poster that it comes across as arrogant. true, but arrogant. i don't think you meant it this way though.

i've been on these boards for a while. and what i found is that my story and personality tend to be the exception and not the norm for many of the participants here. i think you are in the same boat. what i've learned is that i need to take into account that my experience is different than most here when posting--i still try to let my perspective shine through and offer my truth, but i also realize that i'm not dealing with a lot of issues that others here have. i had a good upbringing, good boundaries, not codependent, never tried to save, confident around women and with my sexuality, etc. but because of this good fortune and 'luck' if you will, i also can only sympathize (rather than empathize) with others who suffer from boundary issues. in short, i recommend mixing in some support and words of encouragement as well as 'tough love' to make sure your message hits the mark.

so then, you may ask, "Well Goldylamont, if you have decent boundaries, not many FOO issues, do OK with women and are fine being on your own; then why were you in a 4 year r/s with your ex who probably had BPD?" Good question! And while it's impossible for us to perfectly contrast our stories, I have a few guesses as to the differences in our situations.

firstly, my xuBPDgf was very High Functioning. at least during the majority of the time that i knew her. so a lot of the behaviors you experienced in a short amount of time were of a lesser degree for me in frequency and intensity. this also includes Idealization--while i must admit there had to be some idealization going on, this isn't something that i need or feed off of. it wasn't what sustained us for 4 years either. i think we actually made a good couple on a lot of levels and while i know that i triggered her (out of my own ignorance sometimes) my belief is that to this day i was the partner who stabilized her the most in her life. it wasn't my codependence or lack of boundaries that allowed things to continue. rather i feel in our r/s the fact that i *was* independent, the fact that she knew i could and would walk, yet that i still was a really good catch of a man on many levels was why it continued so long. i think she kept her behavior in check longer than she ever was able to previously or since, simply because she really wanted to be with me that much (as i did with her) for *years*. this wasn't so for her in the r/s i've seen her in since, she's picked men who were more bendable to her him since us and has cycled through them, becoming abusive and ending things in months rather than years. no doubt eventually she'll be able to find someone who is as strong, exciting and independent as he is caring, compassionate and even tempered as i. she'll be able to find someone like this and fool him too  Being cool (click to insert in post) i dunno, maybe her current bf (#4? 5?) is, i've lost track... .

but basically, while not knowing how long your r/s was, i don't even think my ex started acting out terribly until like the 6 or 8 month mark. and even then it wasn't too often. it sounds to me like your ex was lower functioning and acting out sooner, making it more obvious for you that something was wrong. your ex proclaimed her love for you within one week... .a big red flag. my ex acted like this with my replacement too when she wanted to use him to self soothe and embarrass me... .she moved faster but then threw him away just as fast. with us, things moved slower and more organically. and i think this had a large part to do with my own attachment issues at the time (i was single for a while previously and pretty difficult for me to settle down). she probably could sense that she shouldn't try and wrangle me in with love bombs? i dunno, the attraction was immediate but i held things at arms length until i was ready to move forward. i never felt rushed.

as far as walking away, i think you simply had less to walk away from. or perhaps it was simply easier for you because it was a clearer case that there was less of a reason to stay. as i mentioned my ex was high functioning--it wasn't easy to see her red flags for a while. all of my friends, family, coworkers loved her. were confused when we broke up. thought we were so great together (and we were for a while). you describe your ex as being promiscuous, raging early on, strong idealization and love bombing. i knew nothing about my ex's promiscuity, no early raging, etc. i never caught her or suspected her of being a liar or manipulator... all this came to my attention after years of knowing and living with her, and **after** i instigated the breakup. so it's not like i stayed around for eons for her abuse. and i also think i was getting a lot more good out of the r/s for a longer period of time than you did with your ex. thus, much harder to walk away from. and a longer history shared together means it affected me probably to a greater degree.

lastly, there's just simple attraction at hand. and it sounds like you while you were definitely attracted to your ex, she wasn't really off the charts attractive in your eyes. my ex, well, quite a bit different. i hate to admit it but i know a large part of my attraction to my ex was how attractive she was. and while beauty may be in the eye of the beholder, let's just say that everywhere we went and much of the stuff we did... .well, damn near everyone was a beholder (including a lot of women). your ex sounds attractive, pretty. most people (and i) described my ex as beautiful/gorgeous/hot/what the heck-did-you-breakup-with-her-fine-arse? trust me if you broke up with my ex as i did, she would be doing less crying and trying to get you back and more sorting through an army of men/women ready to make her feel better and do her bidding. and her attractiveness wasn't just physical, she was a really down to earth and cool chick when she wanted to be. not just someone who as you described was "... .very photogenic but in person wasn't really all that... ." my ex was kind of all-that in many ways, and i admit this made it harder to leave, but i did.

i just wanted to give you a picture of my story as i can identify with some of your perspective--that of someone who feels independent, ok with being alone and single, someone who wasn't too affected by childhood and family issues. i do try to "keep it real" with others on this board too, and sometimes i give the tough love. but at the same time i often find myself being creative with my approach since i know i'm coming from a different place. this whole experience has left me with so much gratitude for my family and friends for giving me a strong support base, and i realize not everyone has had this. i hope this helps. i think your opinions in general should be expressed here more, because you aren't the norm. and that hopefully over time you can find some balance to express this viewpoint so that it really sinks in for everyone regardless of their backgrounds.
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RisingSun
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« Reply #24 on: August 24, 2014, 08:43:00 PM »

Some people, like myself, started out with a strong sense of personal boundaries before getting involved with a PD'd SO.

I had no issues with honoring my boundaries and holding others accountable if they crossed them.

That is until I met what I thought was the love of my life and the person I was planning on spending the rest of my

life with. I realized far too late just how many boundaries I allowed her to cross and what that did to my self-esteem.

When I was in the middle of an abusive relationship I'd do a lot just to keep the peace including, allowing my w to disregard my boundaries.

It was instinctual.

I seemed to have a tacit understanding that, the softer my boundaries were, the less friction I created in the relationship.

It was a survival instinct. I have only been conscious of this in retrospect.

My boundaries melted away from the fear of greater conflict.

From what I've gathered, boundaries from the perspective of PD is perceived as withholding love. 

If you withhold love it triggers their abandonment issues. There's always a price to pay when you trigger that beast.

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pieceofme
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« Reply #25 on: August 24, 2014, 09:09:54 PM »

Some people, like myself, started out with a strong sense of personal boundaries before getting involved with a PD'd SO.

I had no issues with honoring my boundaries and holding others accountable if they crossed them.

That is until I met what I thought was the love of my life and the person I was planning on spending the rest of my

life with. I realized far too late just how many boundaries I allowed her to cross and what that did to my self-esteem.

When I was in the middle of an abusive relationship I'd do a lot just to keep the peace including, allowing my w to disregard my boundaries.

It was instinctual.

I seemed to have a tacit understanding that, the softer my boundaries were, the less friction I created in the relationship.

It was a survival instinct. I have only been conscious of this in retrospect.

My boundaries melted away from the fear of greater conflict.

From what I've gathered, boundaries from the perspective of PD is perceived as withholding love. 

If you withhold love it triggers their abandonment issues. There's always a price to pay when you trigger that beast.

well said! i think most of us here acted out of love, in the same instinctual way.
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tired-of-it-all
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« Reply #26 on: August 24, 2014, 09:29:07 PM »

The problem I am hearing with a lot of people on this forum is a lot of you don't have any clear boundaries.

I left my borderline ex during the idolization stage which is almost unheard of in the BPD community. She was heartbroken and begged for me to reconsider but she had already trampled my boundaries and it was unacceptable for me.

Here are some of the things I just said NO to:

Proclaiming her love for me to early

Calling me crying all the time

Jealous behaviour

Raging and shouting at me for the smallest of things

Always pushing for the next stage in the relationship/forcing things forward.

Moaning at me for going out with a long time friend that she didn't like. 

It got to the point that I just said sorry but I just don't see things working out and left her. It seems I could do this earlier than a lot of you because I was willing to be alone. I had faith in myself as a person that I would attract the opposite sex again due to the great person I am. I trusted that life always works out in the end and you have to create some space from that other person for it to happen.

Don't let the idolization she has or had for you blur these boundaries. It's a very powerful thing for a person to be able to walk away if these are not being respected. Arguing about your boundaries will not work. You have to show that you are an independent person who would rather be alone than take any crap from anybody.

Stop giving you partner the power. Draw those lines in the sand and be willing to walk away if they are crossed.  Being cool (click to insert in post)

You will start to attract much healthier people into you life when you do this.

You are a much wiser person that I ever was.  You were able to set healthy boundaries before things got much, much worse.  Most of us who have lived with the BPD partner put up with all of this and then much more like physical abuse and infidelity.  I am glad that you did not let it go that far.
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elessar
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« Reply #27 on: August 24, 2014, 09:44:50 PM »

A long time ago, I used to wonder why women stay in abusive relationships. Why wouldn't they just leave?

When my ex returned four years back, I had made up a lot of boundaries in my head, and I told her about it. That she can no longer demand this or that, do this or that. Yet it went down a path of abuse. Abusive relationships evolve slowly. That is why adult children are still enmeshed with abusive parents. Why so many men/women won't leave abusive relationships. Or why we get stuck with pwBPDs for so long. The more you invest, the nicer you are, the more you love, it is hard to see a person who can be like an angel turn into the devil. You wish for that angel to be back. You go back and forth with the two sides. It is much easier to walk away from anyone whom you are not that emotionally invested in. I have done that many times with other people who weren't very nice to me. Each situation is different. Not all traits, even any trait, comes out early. Some are high functioning. No one in the world sees it except their parents. Then you start doubting yourself if the relationship is a mess because of you. There are so many reasons why these boundaries are broken. Sometimes it is our fault, some of us can't make strong boundaries. But I have learned about BPD and just abusive relationships enough to know that they are good at breaking down even the strongest.
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biglearningcurve

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« Reply #28 on: August 25, 2014, 12:37:04 AM »

Stop giving you partner the power. Draw those lines in the sand and be willing to walk away if they are crossed.

I'm glad you were able to walk away before you got hurt Visitor.  It also sounds like you have a somewhat avoidant attachment style, where if anyone threatens your independence you're outta there.  Sure, being alone is always an option, but nowhere near as good as being in a great relationship, and in great relationships partners challenge each other and build partnerships, let go of the need to control, become interdependent, all of which requires letting the walls down and letting someone in.  Granted, letting someone with a personality disorder in is a bad move, but a great relationship can't happen without it.

Visitor.

While you make some valid comments, you did so in a very abrasive, arrogant manner.

If you detached so successfully from your exBPD and seem to have all the answers... .what are you doing on  this board?

Are you just here to enlighten us poor boundary less souls?.

I am sure that someone more educated in phycology than myself will be able to give you a few personality pointers to get you started.

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Visitor
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« Reply #29 on: August 25, 2014, 06:37:49 AM »

well Visitor, i do have to agree with most of the points you are making regarding boundaries, etc. however, i also have to agree with another poster that it comes across as arrogant. true, but arrogant. i don't think you meant it this way though.

i've been on these boards for a while. and what i found is that my story and personality tend to be the exception and not the norm for many of the participants here. i think you are in the same boat. what i've learned is that i need to take into account that my experience is different than most here when posting--i still try to let my perspective shine through and offer my truth, but i also realize that i'm not dealing with a lot of issues that others here have. i had a good upbringing, good boundaries, not codependent, never tried to save, confident around women and with my sexuality, etc. but because of this good fortune and 'luck' if you will, i also can only sympathize (rather than empathize) with others who suffer from boundary issues. in short, i recommend mixing in some support and words of encouragement as well as 'tough love' to make sure your message hits the mark.

so then, you may ask, "Well Goldylamont, if you have decent boundaries, not many FOO issues, do OK with women and are fine being on your own; then why were you in a 4 year r/s with your ex who probably had BPD?" Good question! And while it's impossible for us to perfectly contrast our stories, I have a few guesses as to the differences in our situations.

firstly, my xuBPDgf was very High Functioning. at least during the majority of the time that i knew her. so a lot of the behaviors you experienced in a short amount of time were of a lesser degree for me in frequency and intensity. this also includes Idealization--while i must admit there had to be some idealization going on, this isn't something that i need or feed off of. it wasn't what sustained us for 4 years either. i think we actually made a good couple on a lot of levels and while i know that i triggered her (out of my own ignorance sometimes) my belief is that to this day i was the partner who stabilized her the most in her life. it wasn't my codependence or lack of boundaries that allowed things to continue. rather i feel in our r/s the fact that i *was* independent, the fact that she knew i could and would walk, yet that i still was a really good catch of a man on many levels was why it continued so long. i think she kept her behavior in check longer than she ever was able to previously or since, simply because she really wanted to be with me that much (as i did with her) for *years*. this wasn't so for her in the r/s i've seen her in since, she's picked men who were more bendable to her him since us and has cycled through them, becoming abusive and ending things in months rather than years. no doubt eventually she'll be able to find someone who is as strong, exciting and independent as he is caring, compassionate and even tempered as i. she'll be able to find someone like this and fool him too  Being cool (click to insert in post) i dunno, maybe her current bf (#4? 5?) is, i've lost track... .

but basically, while not knowing how long your r/s was, i don't even think my ex started acting out terribly until like the 6 or 8 month mark. and even then it wasn't too often. it sounds to me like your ex was lower functioning and acting out sooner, making it more obvious for you that something was wrong. your ex proclaimed her love for you within one week... .a big red flag. my ex acted like this with my replacement too when she wanted to use him to self soothe and embarrass me... .she moved faster but then threw him away just as fast. with us, things moved slower and more organically. and i think this had a large part to do with my own attachment issues at the time (i was single for a while previously and pretty difficult for me to settle down). she probably could sense that she shouldn't try and wrangle me in with love bombs? i dunno, the attraction was immediate but i held things at arms length until i was ready to move forward. i never felt rushed.

as far as walking away, i think you simply had less to walk away from. or perhaps it was simply easier for you because it was a clearer case that there was less of a reason to stay. as i mentioned my ex was high functioning--it wasn't easy to see her red flags for a while. all of my friends, family, coworkers loved her. were confused when we broke up. thought we were so great together (and we were for a while). you describe your ex as being promiscuous, raging early on, strong idealization and love bombing. i knew nothing about my ex's promiscuity, no early raging, etc. i never caught her or suspected her of being a liar or manipulator... all this came to my attention after years of knowing and living with her, and **after** i instigated the breakup. so it's not like i stayed around for eons for her abuse. and i also think i was getting a lot more good out of the r/s for a longer period of time than you did with your ex. thus, much harder to walk away from. and a longer history shared together means it affected me probably to a greater degree.

lastly, there's just simple attraction at hand. and it sounds like you while you were definitely attracted to your ex, she wasn't really off the charts attractive in your eyes. my ex, well, quite a bit different. i hate to admit it but i know a large part of my attraction to my ex was how attractive she was. and while beauty may be in the eye of the beholder, let's just say that everywhere we went and much of the stuff we did... .well, damn near everyone was a beholder (including a lot of women). your ex sounds attractive, pretty. most people (and i) described my ex as beautiful/gorgeous/hot/what the heck-did-you-breakup-with-her-fine-arse? trust me if you broke up with my ex as i did, she would be doing less crying and trying to get you back and more sorting through an army of men/women ready to make her feel better and do her bidding. and her attractiveness wasn't just physical, she was a really down to earth and cool chick when she wanted to be. not just someone who as you described was "... .very photogenic but in person wasn't really all that... ." my ex was kind of all-that in many ways, and i admit this made it harder to leave, but i did.

i just wanted to give you a picture of my story as i can identify with some of your perspective--that of someone who feels independent, ok with being alone and single, someone who wasn't too affected by childhood and family issues. i do try to "keep it real" with others on this board too, and sometimes i give the tough love. but at the same time i often find myself being creative with my approach since i know i'm coming from a different place. this whole experience has left me with so much gratitude for my family and friends for giving me a strong support base, and i realize not everyone has had this. i hope this helps. i think your opinions in general should be expressed here more, because you aren't the norm. and that hopefully over time you can find some balance to express this viewpoint so that it really sinks in for everyone regardless of their backgrounds.

Excellent constructive reply Goldy and thank you.
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