Have you learned to love yourself?

[Ziggiddy]

I have been thinking a great deal on validation and comprehension.

I have  especially been thinking on the need for validation - how to teach ourselves to love ourselves when the emotional mechanisms for learning this were not instilled in us like others or if they were, were so distorted as to confound the entire meaning of self love.

Do you love yourself? Do you really feel like you understand what love is? Have you found ways that helped you to learn that you deserve to love yourself?

What obstacles have you had to or are you still in the process of overcoming in order to like and love yourself?

I would love it if you could share what you have discovered and say where you are on your journey to recovery

Ziggiddy

[Kwamina]

Hi Ziggidy 

Thanks for starting this thread, you ask some very important questions. One of the obstacles I've faced is overcoming the need for perfection and learning to effectively talk back to that inner voice that was always criticizing myself for every (perceived) mistake I made. This all was strongly related to the confusing messages I got as a child from my BPD family members, no matter what I did or how well I did it, it (supposedly) was never good enough. That judgmental inner voice can feel like just having your uBPD mom with you all the time  What helps me is applying cognitive (behavorial) techniques to talk back to that negative inner voice.

[SomerledDottir]

Wow, Ziggiddy, you really know how to ask the tough questions!

Self-love is very difficult for me.  And everything I went through with uBPD

sis brought me to an awareness of a core wound of unworthiness and lack of love that, unbelievably, before that, I was unaware of.

I am in the very earliest stages of learning to love myself.  I'm asking myself, who do you know REALLY loved you?  How did they treat you that let you know they loved you?  Can you do some of those same things for yourself?  And those are the things I'm trying to do.

I've had alot going on since losing sis.  My mother is losing cognitive ability and her sight.  My job was not able to hire any suitable employees for our store and I've been exhausted, working lots of hours and days in a row.  My boss really p'd me off, scheduling me when i had told her I was unavailable.  A year ago, I had asked not to work more than three days in a row as it makes it too hard to keep on top of things at home.  She told me that she couldn't trouble herself to check the schedule the previous week to make sure she wasnt scheduling me too many days in a row.  And our company doesn't do set schedules unless you're a boss.  When my boss scheduled me on a day I was unavailable, I got sick of it.  I told the boss I'm unavailable.  She told me there was literally no one else who could work at that time (which I checked later, and indeed, our ranks are so thin with kids returning to college there is no one), so i agreed to work the day, but I told her from now on, I'm not available ANY Sundays, ANY Thursdays, and I no longer wish to work more than 4 days/week.  This will afford me enough money, and give me enough time to finally properly balance taking care of Mother, me, and our home.  And that's what I need to do.  I have SO many plans for how to better my life.  But it all begins with time to think.  And breathe.  And eat better.  And work out.  And rest more.  And get my driver's license.  And start a business.

Does any of that make any sense, or help?

[littlebirdcline]

This is a great question.  I have always had terrible self-esteem and often find myself thinking about how much I hate myself- mostly when I do something stupid or embarrassing.  My BPDm has zero self-esteem and my father is not much better (they both come from highly dysfunctional families), so I don't think my brother and I ever had a chance of developing normal self- esteem.  I have had an intellectual concept and knowledge that I needed to work on this for years, but it's incredibly difficult.  Meeting my husband, who has good mental health, has prompted me to finally start addressing these issues, and having my son made me realize I need to get myself in order if I want to teach him properly. 

I can say so far that I have started to respect myself enough to stop letting people walk all over me, especially my mother.  I finally stood up for myself and trusted my gut enough to know that I have the right to take care of myself, even if my parents think I'm the one in the wrong.  But I still have many days that I find inner voice talking to me as bad as my mother ever has.  Then, I berate myself for letting myself berate myself.     For me, a lot of it is physical, I think.  I have a sleep disorder, and when I'm really exhausted and overwhelmed, I am much more prone to self-attack.  Anyway, it's a work in progress.  I had an acting teacher tell me once there are steps to creating a character that I think apply here as well:

1- not seeing

2- seeing but not understanding

3- seeing and understanding, but not being able to act on it

4- seeing, understanding, and acting

I guess in terms of my own emotional, mental growth, I'm somewhere between 3 and 4.

Sorry for rambling.  It's nice to know someone else is contemplating these things.   

[Ziggiddy]

Wow - what a gold mine of information you guys have brought here!

The other day I received this auto generated affirmation from some site i allowed to 'spam' me and it just said "You are a gift to the world. You should know that. From your inner mother" Well I cried and cried like a little girl and wondered how in the name of everything can this little autogenerated piece of fluff have such a profound effect on me? It wasn't even personal ... .and yet it FELT personal. And I was sad that it was such an incredible struggle to believe it. That there was so much gratitude attached to 'hearing' that.

That judgmental inner voice can feel like just having your uBPD mom with you all the time

This, Kwamina. THIS! I was both saddened and elated from reading that. Saddened that our uBPDms could cheat us of this but also elated because in one stroke you told me where the voice was coming from. I really REALLY want to get it into my head that not only is this SOMEONE ELSE'S voice it's my MOTHER'S! I'm STILL scared to call her on it - even in my head where she can't hear. I amgoing to give this some thought. Identifying the voices.

Somerled I am sorry that you are being taken advantage of at work. it's easy to think that we are the only ones who can help and be responsible but I try and apply this when it comes down to it: If I got hit by a bus then they would HAVE to find an alternate solution. it's not my company so how much of it is really my problem? if it WAS my company, would I be taking advantage of the employees? No probably not. They shouldn't get to treat you worse than you would treat them in a reverse situation.

I am in the very earliest stages of learning to love myself.  I'm asking myself, who do you know REALLY loved you?  How did they treat you that let you know they loved you?  Can you do some of those same things for yourself?  And those are the things I'm trying to do.

I LOVE this! I am going to meditate on this. Excellent great questions

littlebird, that list of creating a character -so interesting.

1- not seeing

2- seeing but not understanding

3- seeing and understanding, but not being able to act on it

4- seeing, understanding, and acting

I guess in terms of my own emotional, mental growth, I'm somewhere between 3 and 4.

Sorry for rambling.  It's nice to know someone else is contemplating these things.   

#3 this makes me think of the paralysis I get into when I think of standing up to BPDm I think I am going to work on forgiving myself for feeling that way. And forgive myself for being exactly where I am in my processes of recovery. What a gift to give yourself.

And please don't ever apologise for rambling. i love to read your things. In fact when I read those few words you wrote on the end it inspired me to start a new topic because too many people here apologise for their thoughts. YOUR THOUGHTS ARE AWESOME. Don't apologise for them!

[SomerledDottir]

Yes, littlebird, I am also amazed at how profound the instructions on building a character is.  It strikes me more as a wise step-by-step guide to becoming a mature human being.  The Buddha described wisdom as seeing the world, ourselves and others as they are, not how we wish them to be.  That was what I thought of when I read those four steps.  Very interesting.  I am also caught now between steps 3 and 4.  I wonder if many of us are.

Ziggiddy, it is interesting that my workplace frequently says we're all replaceable, that is unless a situation like this comes up, and suddenly no one else in a workplace of 70+ people can be found to help out.  The truth is, they should've been working harder on the hiring process the last couple months.  But in a week, everything will slow down, and if they had too many people in our store, they'd be cutting hours, and listening to alot of employee b!$&@ing.  I decided to work the day because if I call off, I'll lose my Labor Day holiday pay -- double time, and my mother and i just racked up a large plumbing bill, so... .   

Also, I'm doing it as a gesture of good faith.  But as I said, I did draw up some boundaries.  Interesting that we were talking about my work situation in a different thread, and someone said she thought my boss sounds NPD.  I tend to agree that at very least my boss has some Narc traits, so I decided to draw up the boundaries for that reason.  What I was rather hazily trying to say last night is that if I am to love and take care of myself, and my mother, who is showing some disturbing signs of beginning dementia, I really only want to work the amount of hours I need to pay my bills, with a few small extras.  So i set the boundaries.  If my boss refuses to honor them, I will not hesitate to go to her boss, who I do think will honor those boundaries.  You're right: it's not my company, but my mother is MY mother, and she only has one child, who very much has her priorities straight!

Ziggiddy, I very much liked that spam message you got, and I am not only going to meditate on it, but I'm going to give it to a fella at work who I think could use it.  Thank you for sharing that, and thank you, littlebird.  Please, "ramble" some more!

[littlebirdcline]

Thanks, y'all.  My husband is always telling me I have to stop apologizing for everything.  I constantly do it for things that aren't even my fault.  I wonder where this comes from, since my mother never apologizes for anything.   

I find this group so incredibly helpful.  My husband is very intelligent and insightful, but he works with mental health from the law enforcement end, so he is always focused on finding a solution for everything.  He will listen to me "process", but he can't really participate, if you know what I mean. 

Let's all go do something nice for ourselves today!

[Woolspinner2000]

Do you love yourself? Do you really feel like you understand what love is? Have you found ways that helped you to learn that you deserve to love yourself?

What obstacles have you had to or are you still in the process of overcoming in order to like and love yourself?

Ziggiddy,

This is a wonderful topic! I'm glad you started this thread for these are all such great questions!

I would like to share some thoughts that I jotted down a few months ago for myself as I reflected on this very topic. I posted a bit of them one other time, but this specific topic allows me to share a bit more because it is the heart of what I've been learning. My stab is at your question: ":)o you really feel like you understand what love is?" I've struggled and struggled with trying to grasp why it is so hard for me to not only receive love from others, but also to love myself. I realized I had to go back, way back, to figure out what types of 'love' I learned and received long ago as a child.  Here is some of what I figured out for me.

There's such a need within us for love. We are made that way. Because this need is so great and so much a part of us, whatever form of 'love likeness' we are shown is what we imprint upon, identifying it as love. In many cases, especially in dysfunctional families like me with an uBPD mom, it isn't truly a form of love, but it becomes the understanding of the children born into that family that this is what love is. The cycle of dysfunction therefore continues on into successive generations for we know nothing else of love. We often choose mates that show the same forms of love that we grew up with because we are so desperately looking for love, thus often choosing an unhealthy relationship without even knowing it. These forms of love were/are so normal to me-I am  comfortable with them because I knew how to operate with them. I think that this is why it is so hard to begin to walk on the journey of healing from our abuses for we have to learn what is truly normal and unlearn the abnormal but what really seems normal to us.

I began a list of what I call 'unhealthy love' because I first had to identify what I perceived as love in my family:

appeasing love, demanding love, controlling love, aggressive love, abusive love, enmeshing love, smothering love, ignoring love, selfish love, critical love, possessive love, suspicious love, conditional love, and invasive love.

And then I began an opposite list, one that exemplifies true, healthy love, so much the opposite of the other list:

quieting love, trusting love, beautiful love, giving love, accepting love, physical love (as seen in a soft touch of kindness), forgiving love, patient love, equipping love, safe love, restful love, welcoming love, steadfast love, restorative love, protective love, and nurturing love.


As I begin to understand what I learned as love, then I'm able to dismantle those lies and start to understand what real love is. Just reading those healthy words representing true love, it quiets my spirit within me and helps to bring peace.

Woolspinner

[Harri]

I want to thank everyone who has replied here.  It helps to see how others define love.    I kept trying to rely then I would get stuck and confused so I would leave and come back!  Hahaha, I did that a few times.  Anywho... .

I am still trying to figure out what love is , what it sounds like in words and how it looks in action.  Self-love is even harder for me... .but I will catch that critical, hurtful and even mocking voice in my head and if I am aware enough I can now stop and ask myself if I would ever say or look at someone the way I speak to or look at myself.  That helps me to be kinder to myself and to recognize that I am not the horrible person I was told I am.  So I guess that in itself is an act of self love.

There are only a couple things I know about love in general and they seem like no brainers when I type them here even though it has taken me several attempts, but that is a part of my ongoing struggle to define and understand what love is.  So here goes:

1) We all seem to have an idea of what love is and we tend to show it to others based on our definition and our wants.  Sometimes though, the other person may define it differently and it may look and sound different to them.  I am assuming here that  they are somewhat matched or at least in the realm of healthy!     So I think a part of love is learning what is important to others, what acts or words will demonstrate to them that we love them.  I think this might be something for me to look at if I ever get into another intimate relationship--->  If we define love too differently, chances are we are not compatible.  If we never take the time to learn what love sounds like and looks like to our partner, chances are the relationship will not satisfy.  To learn this though, we have to actively listen and watch.  People show us what they value and what is important to them in their actions and their words.  They will show us what love looks like to them if we just listen.

2) Just because we love someone, it does not mean we have to act on that love.  I think this applies more to love of family or people who are in our lives who are disordered in some way.  I think back on all I did and put up with from my family ... .all in the name of love and I learned that I no more need to act on my love for them than I do my anger.  And certainly if I could keep from killing them   I can sure as heck keep from showing them love based on their rotten and dysfunctional definition. 

Aw heck, I am not sure if that makes sense to anyone but me, but that is all I have.  I have a feeling my quest to define love will be lifelong.  I have had plenty of experience with what love is not... .I hope next time around I can put those lessons to good use.

I am going to re-read all the replies here a few times through.  There is a lot of insight here, so once again, thank you. 

[SomerledDottir]

Woolspinner and Harri, I am so blown away by the wisdom in your replies that I am lost for words (which anyone who knows SomerledDottir will tell you doesn't happen)    Wow!  I'm going to be reading and thinking about the things shared in this thread for awhile.  Thank you all!

[jmanvo2015]

Thank you for posting this topic.  I've given this a great deal of thought and work over the past year and I really do, finally, like myself and even love myself at times.  I really do.  I can see what's good in me.  I can see that I'm kind and caring and that I'm smart and good at the work I do.  The problem for me now is that I'm very overweight and when I go outside of my home, or even tap my toe into the dating pool, there are other people that want to make me feel unworthy.  So, I've finally learned how to love myself and now I have a greater challenge: how to ignore the messages from others that tell me I'm not worthy of love or any other good things because I'm single, never married, no children and overweight.  These are a lot of strikes to have against me because society definitely doesn't think too kindly of spinsters.  I'm trying to find value + meaning in my life when everything on TV and everywhere I go tells me that my only value as a woman is to be a wife and mother.

[Ziggiddy]

Woolspinner - that was amazing. Such an excellent summing up of things I have thought amorphously but never organised quite so rationally or with such clarity. Well done. So helpful.

I had read an article which indicated something in line with your thoughts there: how we get this yearning longing to be loved all mixed up with the mixed message that we are simply not good enough to be loved. We then chase after this sensation believing it to have been the definition of filial (family) love. This is a theory on why we end up with such strong sensations associated with BPD people as we are reconnecting with our earliest childhood sensation/notion of what love felt like. it touched me deeply.

There's such a need within us for love.

These forms of love were/are so normal to me-I am  comfortable with them because I knew how to operate with them. I think that this is why it is so hard to begin to walk on the journey of healing from our abuses for we have to learn what is truly normal and unlearn the abnormal but what really seems normal to us.


appeasing love, demanding love, controlling love, aggressive love, abusive love, enmeshing love, smothering love, ignoring love, selfish love, critical love, possessive love, suspicious love, conditional love, and invasive love.

And then I began an opposite list, one that exemplifies true, healthy love, so much the opposite of the other list:

quieting love, trusting love, beautiful love, giving love, accepting love, physical love (as seen in a soft touch of kindness), forgiving love, patient love, equipping love, safe love, restful love, welcoming love, steadfast love, restorative love, protective love, and nurturing love.


As I begin to understand what I learned as love, then I'm able to dismantle those lies and start to understand what real love is. Just reading those healthy words representing true love, it quiets my spirit within me and helps to bring peace.

Woolspinner

This just made my skin tingle. So relatable

ask myself if I would ever say or look at someone the way I speak to or look at myself.  That helps me to be kinder to myself and to recognize that I am not the horrible person I was told I am.  So I guess that in itself is an act of self love.

Excellent excellent thing to recognise! Well done you.

  So I think a part of love is learning what is important to others, what acts or words will demonstrate to them that we love them.  I think this might be something for me to look at if I ever get into another intimate relationship--->  If we define love too differently, chances are we are not compatible.  If we never take the time to learn what love sounds like and looks like to our partner, chances are the relationship will not satisfy.  To learn this though, we have to actively listen and watch.  People show us what they value and what is important to them in their actions and their words.  They will show us what love looks like to them if we just listen.

A great bit of insight - thank you for putting it like this.

2) Just because we love someone, it does not mean we have to act on that love.

Lightbulbs lightbulbs. What a GREAT thing to say! I LOVE this!^^

jmanvo

It's wonderful to hear that you are finding self love! There's a wealth of joy in it ... or at least that's what I suspect! Still working on it myself   

I get what you mean about being overweight - I have been obese twice and it made me incredibly unhappy. It took learning that I was overweight because I was unhappy not the other way around. I think it also took me identifying ith the fact that it was other voices that cared about my weight. When I realised that most people just didn't give a fig what I looked like I really stoopped caring so much and then found my appetite decreased as I was not quite as 'hungry' as I had been. I have very recently decided to just look at that woman in the mirror because whatever she looks like she is me. And she's going to be with me every dang minute till i shuffle off this mortal coil so what's the worst I can do but get to know her? hey. She might turn out to be not that bad after all!

[aubin]

What a great topic! I've struggled with the self love question for years. I used to think that the idea of self love was ridiculous -- that self love was narcissism (can you hear my uBPDm there?). I spent years believing that I was not worthy of love and could not be worthy because to believe in myself would be selfish. I'm not sure that I can say yet that I love myself. But I do like myself and I definitely don't hate myself anymore.

Do you really feel like you understand what love is?

I used to think that because I wasn't loved unconditionally by my FOO, that I could not unconditionally love a child of my own. For years I put off having a child believing that I needed to "get" unconditional love from someone first before I could "give" unconditional love to my child. So passed many years and several relationships with me trying to wring unconditional love out of my partners by trying to be the perfect person. With my BPDexgf I realized that I was not emotionally healthy and needed to figure out myself. At that same time, I decided to have a child (as a single parent) because the clock was ticking and I knew this would be my biggest regret ever if I could not have a baby.

When my son was born, not only was I astounded at how much love I experienced with him, but I was shocked at how *easy* it is to love him. Loving him isn't a struggle, or a challenge, or confusing. There is no "giving" or "getting" of unconditional love, but there is just simply love. He's now 14 months old and each day with him I'm still deeply moved by how much I love him. I guess some part of me had internalized my uBPDm assertion that love is difficult and scarce. I had spent years hoarding love only to realize through this tiny little baby that love is actually abundant and free flowing; I just needed to be open to it.

So yes, I am beginning to understand what love is. Now my task is to learn to turn some of that love towards myself.

[pink_heart44]

One of the obstacles I've faced is overcoming the need for perfection and learning to effectively talk back to that inner voice that was always criticizing myself for every (perceived) mistake I made. This all was strongly related to the confusing messages I got as a child from my BPD family members, no matter what I did or how well I did it, it (supposedly) was never good enough. That judgmental inner voice can feel like just having your uBPD mom with you all the time  What helps me is applying cognitive (behavorial) techniques to talk back to that negative inner voice.[/quote]
I couldn't agree more with your post. I feel the exact same way. Nothing was ever good enough for my uBPD mom. This is something I struggle with even as an adult. I am way too hard on myself. I too, try and quiet the negative inner voice. But it's difficult.

As for being able to love myself, well that's taken some time. I had to basically unlearn all the negative things my mother made me believe about myself. I have close friends and husband that have helped me realize that I deserve love. And what my mother showed me during childhood was not love. That I was not the cause of her irrational behavior/emotions. She was.

Being "raised" by an BPD parent leaves us desperately trying to climb out of the dark whole they've sunk themselves into. It's a process but we've come a long way. We need to give ourselves credit for that instead of being focused on the negative.