What is it like having no sense of self?

[bungenstein]

Is anyone able to explain what it feels like, or describe the experience, of having no sense of self? As its a concept I am having trouble relating to. Thanks!

[workinprogress]

Perhaps I can answer a little... .

When I was 18, I was going to college, living at home, and working.  I didn't have the money to move out and my controlling parents sure as hell weren't going to fund it.

I got a girlfriend at the time that my parents hated.  My mom would rage at me about her.  I never understood it.  I was working and doing everything that I needed to do, but they were furious over this.

I just wanted to be loved.

Well, things escalated at home and my mom started locking me out of the house.  I eventually grabbed my stuff one day and left.

I was 18, making $3.00 an hour, and didn't know anything about life.

I struggled so hard to make it.  It was such a battle just to have enough money to buy food.

Something happened to me then, I don't know if it was PTSD or what.  I lost sense of who I was due to long hours working and going to school full time.  I was exhausted, I was empty.

I noticed that I had trouble carrying on conversations with others.  Drama, I grew up with it all of the time, is what fed me.  I adapted easily to those around me.  Being liked and belonging meant more to me than anything.  But, once a friendship or relationship reached a certain point, I couldn't go deeper.  Everything was surface, so to speak.

I think drama, getting attention, and feeding off of other people's attention is what kept me going.

I think I was truly incapable of bonding at that time with another person.

Everything was about my image.  I believed at the time that I was well-liked and I hit the bar scene a lot.

There was a restlessness in me.  I could never be happy.  If things were good in my life, either I blew them up or I allowed someone else to blow them up for me.

I also recall feeling intense emotional pain at times.

Something ended up intervening in my life, including my BPD.  I stumbled across some pamphlet on depression and it brought up a lot of points that I could relate to.

I also read some stuff about being clumsy, people called me clutz at times, and I saw where clumsy people had problems with repressed anger.

I made a deliberate attempt to pay attention to my emotions.  When I felt my intense emotional pain, I started to allow myself to feel it, instead of self-medicating.

I began to realize that everything about me was wrong.

I also began making 5 year plans for my life and thinking about the future.

Then I met my BPD.  She was so self-centered that she reacted strongly to every error I made.  In a way she did me a favor.  She made me very conscious of how I made other people feel.

I began to realize that I caused a decent amount of hurt to other people.

One other thing, I almost dumped my BPD.  I realized that I didn't allow myself to be close to other people.  I made a conscious effort not to skip out on her.  I decided to commit to the relationship long term.  It was strange.

I made a conscious attempt to be a better person.

I'm not saying that I am healed or anything, but, I am consistent now.  I think I still repress my emotions a bit.  I try to live my life by core values as opposed to feelings, wants, and desires.  That made a huge difference.

I also realized that my life isn't a show for everyone else.  I don't need to be the center of attention.  Everyone doesn't have to like me, and it's okay to tell other people "no."

I hope this helps a bit.

[Conundrum]

Workinprogress, fantabulous reply.

The self exists, but is diminished when unable to authentically relate to others. In solitary confinement the mind folds into the self. Meaningful expression of the self is galactic. We explode into the cosmos touching others in profound ways. We express our "selves" relationally--an amalgam of feelings, purpose, reason and experiences--an identity--authentic to "being."

To be disconnected from the self--which was annihilated--yet the being carries on. They live, breathe, but have been altered--humanism robbed, nurturing slithered away, manipulative abuse became the sine qua non to defend against--in childhood. The natural spirit of the self learned early on that one isn't allowed to be a child anymore, one must be an an adult. Morphing into a pseudo-adult while in childhood, manufactures a pathologically disconnected adult being. A representation took over-who wears a mask of need and shame. A symbol, and place holder for the child who never was--searching for answers. Which never come. Consequently, maladaptive coping tools are employed feeding the mask, soothing the pain, over and over, until the end. Empty beneath--intense on the surface. Gone.            

[bungenstein]

Thankyou for the profound responses, both of you. They do help. I guess what I'm asking is whats the difference between myself and a BPD, when it comes to how we feel at a core level. I want to imagine how it feels going through life with no sense of self. Do they feel invisible? Do they not think/talk to themselves? Are they not self conscious? I really can't imagine what it feels like.

Consequently, maladaptive coping tools are employed feeding the mask, soothing the pain, over and over, until the end. Empty beneath--intense on the surface. Gone.             

... .and my god, what an intensely depressing description you have summed up there, terrifying.

[Hopeless777]

I don't know. I'm not BPD but was married to one for 27+ years. "I" lost "my" sense of self! I've been separated now for three months and my T asks me what I like to do for fun, and I don't know. Everything revolved around my BPDw, now that's gone and I have no idea what to do.

[BuildingFromScratch]

Hopeless: I too lost my sense of self to this relationship. Yes because it was all about her, but also because the abuse caused my mind to disassociate. And finally in my crushing low self esteem, my narcissistic traits got amplified a lot. I would ruminate about random stuff in some sort of grandiose delusion, to get all of my self esteem.

[Tibbles]

I also lost my sense of self from the relationship. I can remember him yelling at me I have no opinions or drive to do anything, I just sit. He was right. I had put all my energy into trying not to set him off, to like the things he liked to do what he considered appropriate I had lost the will and ability to think. I remember thinking I honestly don't know what I like any more, what do I enjoy doing? what makes me happy? - no idea.

[freedom33]

Thank you for sharing this. This sounds very familiar.

I also read some stuff about being clumsy, people called me clutz at times, and I saw where clumsy people had problems with repressed anger. I began to realize that everything about me was wrong.

This resonates with me. Quite clumsy myself. Physically and mentally. I am ashamed of this aspect of me that I only recently i.e. the last couple of years I came to consciously realise

Then I met my BPD.  She was so self-centered that she reacted strongly to every error I made.  In a way she did me a favor.  She made me very conscious of how I made other people feel.

I began to realize that I caused a decent amount of hurt to other people.

Yes. Unconsciously. As if some part of me does not engage in understanding the effect of my actions. There is no harm in my actions. No malice or bad intention. Just pure absence of consciousness as if I am avoidant or schizotypal. A bit of cluster A or C myself I suppose and my rs with my exgf made me realise this.

One other thing, I almost dumped my BPD.  I realized that I didn't allow myself to be close to other people.  I made a conscious effort not to skip out on her.  I decided to commit to the relationship long term.  It was strange.

I did too as in a way being with her was a journey of self-discovery. I can identify with some of the people here but not fully. I am not a rescuer in the pure sense of the word. I have narcissistic tendencies due to FOO issues, I want to do the right thing, but not  rescuing per se. It's more a matter of principle with me. Are you still commited to her or you broke up?

I'm not saying that I am healed or anything, but, I am consistent now.  I think I still repress my emotions a bit.  I try to live my life by core values as opposed to feelings, wants, and desires.  That made a huge difference.

I also realized that my life isn't a show for everyone else.  I don't need to be the center of attention.  Everyone doesn't have to like me, and it's okay to tell other people "no."

This is an authentic way of being. A being for one self. A being in one self. Well done!

[workinprogress]

Hopeless: I too lost my sense of self to this relationship. Yes because it was all about her, but also because the abuse caused my mind to disassociate. And finally in my crushing low self esteem, my narcissistic traits got amplified a lot. I would ruminate about random stuff in some sort of grandiose delusion, to get all of my self esteem.

The same thing happened to me.  Things were going so bad in my life that I created these grandiose dreams that I was so much better and smarter than everyone else!

It was truly horrible!  I can see how it was necessary to survive though.

[workinprogress]

Thank you for sharing this. This sounds very familiar.

I also read some stuff about being clumsy, people called me clutz at times, and I saw where clumsy people had problems with repressed anger. I began to realize that everything about me was wrong.

This resonates with me. Quite clumsy myself. Physically and mentally. I am ashamed of this aspect of me that I only recently i.e. the last couple of years I came to consciously realise

Then I met my BPD.  She was so self-centered that she reacted strongly to every error I made.  In a way she did me a favor.  She made me very conscious of how I made other people feel.

I began to realize that I caused a decent amount of hurt to other people.

Yes. Unconsciously. As if some part of me does not engage in understanding the effect of my actions. There is no harm in my actions. No malice or bad intention. Just pure absence of consciousness as if I am avoidant or schizotypal. A bit of cluster A or C myself I suppose and my rs with my exgf made me realise this.

One other thing, I almost dumped my BPD.  I realized that I didn't allow myself to be close to other people.  I made a conscious effort not to skip out on her.  I decided to commit to the relationship long term.  It was strange.

I did too as in a way being with her was a journey of self-discovery. I can identify with some of the people here but not fully. I am not a rescuer in the pure sense of the word. I have narcissistic tendencies due to FOO issues, I want to do the right thing, but not  rescuing per se. It's more a matter of principle with me. Are you still commited to her or you broke up?

I'm not saying that I am healed or anything, but, I am consistent now.  I think I still repress my emotions a bit.  I try to live my life by core values as opposed to feelings, wants, and desires.  That made a huge difference.

I also realized that my life isn't a show for everyone else.  I don't need to be the center of attention.  Everyone doesn't have to like me, and it's okay to tell other people "no."

This is an authentic way of being. A being for one self. A being in one self. Well done!

Freedom, for some reason your last comment almost brought a tear to my eye.  I am drinking a little tonight, though. 

I don't know what Cluster A or C is, but, I did see a therapist in my early 20's.  She diagnosed me as a Type A Personality.  I was driven constantly.

I was driven by my childhood.  Nothing I did was ever good enough.  I was always in danger of my mom going off over nothing and my poor dad having no choice but to whip me because she demanded it.  I forgive my dad.  I feel so sorry for him and the life he endured.  My mom, I don't feel as much for, though I try.

I see now that the whole type A thing was me running from my childhood.

As for being ashamed of the clumsiness, I too was ashamed of that.  I felt shame about everything.  I felt guilty constantly, whether I did anything or not.

Start listening to yourself and uncovering your own emotions.  As I stated, I realized that everything about me was wrong.  I had no clue what to do in life.  I eventually did the opposite of what I thought I should do, I know it's crazy, but I had no reference point on how to be a responsible adult.

In the end, I am still with my BPD, we've been married for 22 years.  I still love her.  I just can't emotionally reach her.  We have practically no physical touch together at all.  It is so hard to maintain this marriage.  I still think that there is something inside of her that can make things work.

[freedom33]

I think cluster A and type A might be the same thing. I had similar upbringing and I am very driven myself. Just recently I have found myself in a life situation where I am not sure how to proceed with my life. I have broken up with my ex for the 4th time and also have no job at the moment. I lost my job (and a very good one indeed) due to the impact the rs had on me - plus she was working for the same company so I had to leave really after one of the previous break ups. It was torturous to go there every day.  How is it to be with someone with BPD for 22 years? I mean I was just one year with this woman and four break-ups and now I am in ruins... .

I have no reference point myself right now. I suppose I am trying to rebuild myself from scratch and rediscover myself. Find out what I am all about. My likes and dislikes. The ex just contacted me and wants to meet to get some (just some) of her staff back. I am bringing back all her stuff but I know that this is a very dangerous situation for me to get pulled back in.  I know that if I continue with her it will ruin me.

[Recooperating]

I can relate to the "lost sense of self". My T says to go and do things I like to do... .Uhhhh really dont have a clue!

Every aspect of my life is a mess right now. My r/s ended 2 weeks ago, I went on sick leave 6 weeks ago, the r/s took too much out of me. Financially I'm f*-ed he emptied me out. My mom is terminally ill... .

So, I am at a point where I have to do a total reset of my life. It sucks, but its a great opportunity at the same time.

As a child I wasnt able to make my own choices. My dad picked out the sport, music lessons, he chose my education and when I made some choices of my own he wouldnt support me. (I was a really talented dancer, I danced a lot of shows and was national champion... .He never came to one of my recitals, yet he told me to go work as a hooker that way I would at least earn a living... .) I met my BPD ex when I was 19. He hated him, so he told me to follow his rules, break up... .Or leave the house... .I left the house the same day. I never got to develop or figure out who I was... .I had to be who my dad wanted me to be to get some love and attention. My mom had no choice just to watch him do it... .

Im good at making choices on a business level... .When it comes to my personal life I havent got a clue! I am as codependant as it gets... .  Well its now time to figure it out! Where to start... .?

[workinprogress]

I can relate to the "lost sense of self". My T says to go and do things I like to do... .Uhhhh really dont have a clue!

Every aspect of my life is a mess right now. My r/s ended 2 weeks ago, I went on sick leave 6 weeks ago, the r/s took too much out of me. Financially I'm f*-ed he emptied me out. My mom is terminally ill... .

So, I am at a point where I have to do a total reset of my life. It sucks, but its a great opportunity at the same time.

As a child I wasnt able to make my own choices. My dad picked out the sport, music lessons, he chose my education and when I made some choices of my own he wouldnt support me. (I was a really talented dancer, I danced a lot of shows and was national champion... .He never came to one of my recitals, yet he told me to go work as a hooker that way I would at least earn a living... .) I met my BPD ex when I was 19. He hated him, so he told me to follow his rules, break up... .Or leave the house... .I left the house the same day. I never got to develop or figure out who I was... .I had to be who my dad wanted me to be to get some love and attention. My mom had no choice just to watch him do it... .

Im good at making choices on a business level... .When it comes to my personal life I havent got a clue! I am as codependant as it gets... .  Well its now time to figure it out! Where to start... .?

Wow, we are in nearly identical places in life!  I felt like I was flying blind most of my life, stumbling around not sure of what to do.

I'm wasn't sure where to start.  Exercising helps.  Reading positive books.  Positive self talk.

I'm reading the book of Job.  It's interesting when everything goes wrong in his life and it is said that God causes pain in those he loves.  That, the pain is a blessing, it helps us grow.  If I recall, Job is eventually blessed with 7x's what he had before he lost everything.

I used to think that life was a race.  Now I think it is a marathon.  A lot of it you have to grind out step after step, mile after mile.

I think the book The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People was impactful in my life.

Also, Think and Grow Rich was very helpful, believe it or not.

Lastly, the book of Proverbs has some very good instructions for life.

[fromheeltoheal]

Damn this is a good thread.  workinprogress floors me with a beautiful stream of consciousness, and conundrum spins my head in new directions, per usual.  I like it here.

So addressing the original, seems to me that it's more accurate to say a borderline has half a self instead of none, and needs another person to 'complete' them, not in a cutesy Valentines card way, but in a fusing of psyches way, a recreation of that earliest bond with their mother, the one they never successfully detached from, so they're forever trying to get back there.  That attachment, that completing of the self, is mandatory, since otherwise someone would need to face and weather the abandonment that would follow if it was lost, and screw that, too scary, it creates a drive to always, always seek attachments out, question the ones you have, and keep a few around, just in case.

I've discovered that I've been exactly the opposite, fiercely independent, to my detriment sometimes, don't need people for sht, heavily related to Simon's I Am A Rock, all of that just self protection, but certainly not devoid of that sense of self, that sense of inner direction.  But being a social animal per standard human, 'splains the attraction to someone who showed up, glommed on, 'became' the best of me because it made her feel better, moved into my world, one that was badly in need of company, and lit it up in a way I didn't expect, and didn't learn till later, didn't want.

[thereishope]

I also lost my sense of self from the relationship. I can remember him yelling at me I have no opinions or drive to do anything, I just sit. He was right. I had put all my energy into trying not to set him off, to like the things he liked to do what he considered appropriate I had lost the will and ability to think. I remember thinking I honestly don't know what I like any more, what do I enjoy doing? what makes me happy? - no idea.

Perfectly stated... .I'm still here with uBPDh, although trying to work my way out... .

I feel as though he reached into me, pulled out my self, stuck it inside himself and my whole being has been trying to "make him work"... .while the empty shell of me is watching from the outside, peering through eye sockets at myself as part of him, living this twisted theatre production of life with a uBPDh... .It's the most surreal thing ever, and I'm not quite sure how to think myself free of it and escape... .Where am I?  Who am I?  What am I supposed to do next?  (Horrible horrible feeling... .)

[bungenstein]

So essentially it seems that the longer you are with a BPD, the more of yourself you lose, and the more like a BPD you become. They basically infect you with what they have, making it harder and harder to get away from them. I've always wondered how people stayed with them for years and years, and thats probably why. They are sedated and chained, unknown to them who they used to be, or who they are now.

[fromheeltoheal]

So essentially it seems that the longer you are with a BPD, the more of yourself you lose, and the more like a BPD you become. They basically infect you with what they have, making it harder and harder to get away from them. I've always wondered how people stayed with them for years and years, and thats probably why. They are sedated and chained, unknown to them who they used to be, or who they are now.

A little more innocuously, a relationship is something two people create together, by choice.  It's tempting to assign malicious intent to a borderline, when the goal is to attach, to fuse psyches, to become whole, and most importantly to not be abandoned.  Those of us who did successfully detach and become our own 'self' back in infancy might be caught off guard by this level of 'bonding', but it is still a choice, the relationship is something created with the raw materials each of us brings to the party, and we stay as long as we're getting something out of it, even if that something is less pain than the pain we imagine leaving would cause, until it's not. 

[bungenstein]

So essentially it seems that the longer you are with a BPD, the more of yourself you lose, and the more like a BPD you become. They basically infect you with what they have, making it harder and harder to get away from them. I've always wondered how people stayed with them for years and years, and thats probably why. They are sedated and chained, unknown to them who they used to be, or who they are now.

A little more innocuously, a relationship is something two people create together, by choice.  It's tempting to assign malicious intent to a borderline, when the goal is to attach, to fuse psyches, to become whole, and most importantly to not be abandoned.  Those of us who did successfully detach and become our own 'self' back in infancy might be caught off guard by this level of 'bonding', but it is still a choice, the relationship is something created with the raw materials each of us brings to the party, and we stay as long as we're getting something out of it, even if that something is less pain than the pain we imagine leaving would cause, until it's not. 

I know its not done maliciously, but they do slowly and subtely tempt you in, baby steps down the rabbit hole, until you wonder how you got there.

And I agree, thats exactly how I felt, the pain I'm in was less than the pain I imagined I'd feel by leaving, until it wasn't, what a wonderful bond.

[hergestridge]

I must say I have no idea what it's like, and I wonder if I could ever understand. It's like this question "Could you close your eyes and imagine nothing?".

I am 41 years old and I am pursuing projects and ideas that has been with me since was 10 or 11 years old. I have a great sense of continuity in my life and I have paid for it in many ways, financially and socially. I live exactly the kind of country house I imagined I would and I have small home studio where I make the experimental music I planned on doing already as a kid. I dress exactly the way I want according to my own aesthetic standards even though it draws comments from people.

I worked hard to get here, getting myself a "boring" day job to finance all this. Worked myself up and bought myself this freedom.

I have tried to imagine what it's like to having no sense of self, but I can't. I know what it means and I have (sadly) experience the effect first hand.

[BuildingFromScratch]

For me, it was horrible. I swear, I just skipped 13 or so years of my life and now I'm a walking corpse. I used to have opinions, strong feelings, convictions, an array of conflicting beliefs, then poof gone. Because during a certain time period she completely ruined my life, hit me, spewed vileness into my ear, judged me and my sexuality. And even though I fought with her during most of that. Eventually my brain literally shut down and I had a 13 year bout of anxiety, depersonalization, disassociation. It's like having your soul trapped under layers of crap. It's like being a slave in your own body.

[thereishope]

For me, it was horrible. I swear, I just skipped 13 or so years of my life and now I'm a walking corpse. I used to have opinions, strong feelings, convictions, an array of conflicting beliefs, then poof gone. Because during a certain time period she completely ruined my life, hit me, spewed vileness into my ear, judged me and my sexuality. And even though I fought with her during most of that. Eventually my brain literally shut down and I had a 13 year bout of anxiety, depersonalization, disassociation. It's like having your soul trapped until layers of crap. It's like being a slave in your own body.

!

[bungenstein]

For me, it was horrible. I swear, I just skipped 13 or so years of my life and now I'm a walking corpse. I used to have opinions, strong feelings, convictions, an array of conflicting beliefs, then poof gone. Because during a certain time period she completely ruined my life, hit me, spewed vileness into my ear, judged me and my sexuality. And even though I fought with her during most of that. Eventually my brain literally shut down and I had a 13 year bout of anxiety, depersonalization, disassociation. It's like having your soul trapped under layers of crap. It's like being a slave in your own body.

How did you eventually break free?

Did you not want to break free in those 13 years?

[thereishope]

For me, it was horrible. I swear, I just skipped 13 or so years of my life and now I'm a walking corpse. I used to have opinions, strong feelings, convictions, an array of conflicting beliefs, then poof gone. Because during a certain time period she completely ruined my life, hit me, spewed vileness into my ear, judged me and my sexuality. And even though I fought with her during most of that. Eventually my brain literally shut down and I had a 13 year bout of anxiety, depersonalization, disassociation. It's like having your soul trapped under layers of crap. It's like being a slave in your own body.

How did you eventually break free?

Did you not want to break free in those 13 years?

I need this info... .I feel very very stuck right now.  In my situation... .in my own reasoning abilities... .etc... .While still feeling more and more negative as the days go by... .Help!

[BuildingFromScratch]

After my brain shut down, I dunno, I felt enslaved honestly. I spent 13 years in my room, telling her to leave me alone, then she'd harass me and play the victim when I'd tell her to leave me alone and then she'd still harass me. I was basically abused and then harassed and was confused, stressed and anxious the entire time. Before she abused me all those years ago, I actually was discussing us maybe breaking up, THATS WHY SHE ABUSED ME INTO OBLIVION. God, thinking about this makes me so mad. I've lost like 10 friends, I've lost everything.

Okay, she actually broke up with me, after she blamed me for so long that now I had zero self esteem on top of being traumatized. So, since I was useless, she left me "because she can't get it back" as her entire explanation.

How did I break out of the anxiety and trauma? I faced the pain of 13 years ago, and the bliss we had at the beginning. Hardest crap of my life, I almost died from that pain. That and just you know, trying to be soft with myself, meditating, laying out in the back yard and trying to focus on scenery. I still struggle with a lot of anxiety though, but it's getting better. Also, I suggest writing poetry, art, or w/e, you know all that emotionally expressive artsy stuff.

[fromheeltoheal]

I know its not done maliciously, but they do slowly and subtely tempt you in, baby steps down the rabbit hole, until you wonder how you got there.

The part that seems malicious is there was an agenda from the beginning, and of course it wasn't expressed.  Open, honest communication and transparency are good things to have in a relationship, but as conundrum says, our partners were haphazard in both theory and application, and we were blind, voluntarily or not.

[camuse]

I dont really understand the no sense of self thing, or what it must feel like. Wish I did.

After we split, my ex constantly said she felt "empty" and began purging to make her body empty like her soul (her words).

I had no idea what she really meant and still dont really.

[freedom33]

How did you eventually break free?

Did you not want to break free in those 13 years?

I was thinking that maybe this is what happens. After continual abuse one eventually breaks down.

www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Learned_helplessness

Learned helplessness theory is the view that clinical depression and related mental illnesses may result from a perceived absence of control over the outcome of a situation. Basically the BPD breaks boundaries, hijacks a person and takes over control is one way of seeing it... .

[woofhound]

Is anyone able to explain what it feels like, or describe the experience, of having no sense of self? As its a concept I am having trouble relating to. Thanks!

Having no sense of self, in my opinion, refers to a persons need to appease whosoever may be with them. In other words, they feel the need to be whatever another person would have them be. In my uBPDex's case, this meant that, while with me, she would claim to be a stable, responsible, goal oriented adult... .While with friends that like to party, she would be promiscuous, short sighted, irresponsible, etc. The issue that comes about as a result of this is that the too "selves" do not correlate. Therefore, in becoming what people of different value structures (in this instance: me VS party friends) want there is a conflict. There is no real person; only a reaction to external stimuli.

A person that does not experience this may be influenced in certain ways (for example, trying new things), but ultimately finds his or herself relatively stable in their decision making in relation to their core beliefs, values, etc.

Hope this helps.

[fromheeltoheal]

Here's a theory: you know that voice in your head, the one that just said "what voice?", the one you talk to when you "talk to yourself"?  Someone without a self doesn't have that.  I say a borderline has half a self, so they do have a voice, it's just screaming "don't leave me" all the time, and obsessed with finding and attaching to another half.

[freedom33]

Here's a theory: you know that voice in your head, the one that just said "what voice?", the one you talk to when you "talk to yourself"?  Someone without a self doesn't have that.  I say a borderline has half a self, so they do have a voice, it's just screaming "don't leave me" all the time, and obsessed with finding and attaching to another half.

Great example!   

[hergestridge]

Here's a theory: you know that voice in your head, the one that just said "what voice?", the one you talk to when you "talk to yourself"?  Someone without a self doesn't have that.  I say a borderline has half a self, so they do have a voice, it's just screaming "don't leave me" all the time, and obsessed with finding and attaching to another half.

I think that's quite accurate. I had that conversation with my wife many times; she would say something really tactless and hurtful and I would ask her if she could have imagine beforehand what the reaction would be on the things she said.

It turned out she didn't have the "inner dialogue" that I have, at least not in the same way. No "talking to yourself".

"Talking to yourself"/inner dialogue is an important of both self soothing and empathetic thinking. There really are some essential parts missing.

Mentalization is one of therapy methods used to treat BPD. It's all about imagining how things must be for others before reacting. It's about getting yourself an inner voice and learning how to use it I suppose.

[bungenstein]

Here's a theory: you know that voice in your head, the one that just said "what voice?", the one you talk to when you "talk to yourself"?  Someone without a self doesn't have that.  I say a borderline has half a self, so they do have a voice, it's just screaming "don't leave me" all the time, and obsessed with finding and attaching to another half.

Great anaylsis.

So basically they drift around without thinking, impulsively drifting towards whatever gratifies them, doing whatever it is they think will result in their emptiness and pain being taken away.

And thats it, thats their incredibly primitive existence.

Its no wonder my ex was incapable of in depth conversations, or delving deep into interests or creativity, they just don't understand it, all they seem to think about is how to survive.