Obligations

[AlonelyOne]

"I signed the kids up for xxxx activity. I will send you the info. You need to take them too." - S2BX

So the above message was received recently. Note, that I am being told that I am obligated to take them to said activity. Although said activity a) conflicts with my own plan to do the same activity more locally to me b) involved no discussion or consideration on my part - and I don't even know the activity times yet.

But rest assured I am being told I am obligated to do such. And I am sure if I refuse, I will be a bad father who doesn't care about my kids *facepalm*.

This goes with the demands for the return of said items like shoes/backpacks (half of which I don't have, haven't seen or were already returned) and declarations that if I do not return said items than I must replace or provide ludicrous amounts of $$.

(Mind you, I've had a number of items go and never come back. Including a brand new shirt I bought for my daughter that I really liked, and got to see her wear for a whopping 2 hours.  Never seen it since.  But do I go off demanding she return it or pay me $$. Nope.  I look at it this way, I bought it for my daughter. As long as I have clothes to clothe her, I'm okay. Mind you I was handed all the ugly, rutty, worn out clothes for my kids. And it is a bit frustrating to spend your money on new items and immediately lose control of them. But if my kids are wearing them, so be it. My solution, when a few new items I bought didn't return and I found myself short on supplies. I went out and bought more, because frankly, it's a hell of a lot easier to spend a $100 on new shoes for the kids than to deal with my ex.

 

[Matt]

Very common stuff.  My wife and now ex used to give me lots of orders;  if I complied with her orders I was her slave, and if I didn't comply with them she would punish me.  A horrible way to relate to another adult.

I would certainly not reply at all to that e-mail at all.  She may send more details and then you can decide.

You might want to sign them up for the program which will work for you, so you can then say, "I signed them up for such-and-such because it works with my schedule.  The details are attached.  If you can take them on Tuesdays and Thursdays that would be very helpful." or whatever.  (Saying "I am planning to... ." is not the same as saying, "I have signed them up for... .".

Make sure you aren't making decisions just based on how she communicates with you.  Better to set that aside and decide what is best for the kids.

Over time, if you never respond to things which are inappropriate, she will either learn to communicate with you in a more appropriate way - no orders, no blame, no accusations, etc. - or you won't have to communicate with her at all.

About the stuff... .

Most of us have this issue to some extent.  Basically it just costs more money.  When the kids are young, probably best to put their worst clothes on them when they are going to the other house, so whatever they come back in isn't a loss.  Keep as many clothes as possible in the house and just send them with the clothes on their backs.  When they get older, you can put them in charge - "These clothes are yours and you can take them to Mom's if you want, but if you don't bring them back you won't have anything to wear when you're here."

[ForeverDad]

In extreme cases - which we see too often here - some parents have been forced to send the kids back in the same clothes they arrived in.  I recall one time my son arrived wearing a size 2 pajama shirt when he was wearing size 5.  Over the years I've had lots of clothes disappear never to be seen again.  And I've had him come wearing the smaller clothes, even underwear, with the unspoken expectation "you get him bigger clothes."

Yes, you could and should respond to some demands with your own statements but be fully aware that it won't mean anything to her.  You can't reason with someone who is unreasonable and isn't listening.  However, it's possible that your well-written responses might be used in court.  (Probably not, but maybe.  It's astounding how little is presented as evidence in court.)  Knowing that she is too unilaterally entitled to listen to you, then anything you say, write or express in any way must be phrased carefully as though it might be considered by court, agencies or evaluators.

Also, you can do just as she does - state what you will do and then do it.  While you do want the court, agencies and evaluators to see you are reasonable, it doesn't mean you have to be a weak appeaser or muddy doormat.  Yes, if she gets temporary custody then your options may be limited but you don't have to be powerless.  Set reasonable but firm boundaries and proceed with parenting.

Often too you have to choose your battles.  Not everything can or will get fixed.  As my lawyer asked me, ":)o you want a $5K divorce or a $30K divorce?

[Matt]

Also, you can do just as she does - state what you will do and then do it.  While you do want the court, agencies and evaluators to see you are reasonable, it doesn't mean you have to be a weak appeaser or muddy doormat.  Yes, if she gets temporary custody then your options may be limited but you don't have to be powerless.  Set reasonable but firm boundaries and proceed with parenting.

This is interesting and worth a little more discussion... .

My own approach is "Tell her what I will do, and then do it."  But I don't think that's the same as what your ex is doing:  she is ordering you to do what she wants you to do.

The way FD says it - "Tell her what you will do and then do it" - works very well for me.  One key to it is to first give careful thought to what is the best plan - not just for you but for everybody - what best meets the kids' needs and will also work out for both parents.  Then state what I will do - "I have signed up the kids for Such-And-Such and I will take them to it and pick them up."  Plus maybe an indication of options for my ex:  "If you can take them on Wednesdays that would be helpful." - not an order or even a question... .

She might respond in a productive way, and then you can do likewise, and work out any issues.

Or she might respond in an unproductive way, and you can ignore that, and proceed with what you said you would do.

Or she might not reply at all, and again, you do what you said you would do.

It was a difficult transition - my ex kept arguing for a while - but I maintained that boundary and she got with the program after a few months.

[AlonelyOne]

"In extreme cases - which we see too often here - some parents have been forced to send the kids back in the same clothes they arrived in."

Been contemplating the bag on the door method of the above. May be best.


"(Probably not, but maybe.  It's astounding how little is presented as evidence in court.)"

That's something I've noticed, and been rather disappointed in.


"first give careful thought to what is the best plan - not just for you but for everybody"

I'm trying to do this. In this case, I would like the children to learn the skills of said activity. Second, a recent situation has facilitated my having a little bit more free time. So I think I can accommodate, for the children's sake.  I told her, if it is amiable to my schedule, I'll try to oblige. But that I could not make any guarantees.

[Matt]

So I think I can accommodate, for the children's sake.  I told her, if it is amiable to my schedule, I'll try to oblige. But that I could not make any guarantees.

I have found that if I leave anything vague or unclear, there will be drama.

Best to say what you will do - "I will pick up the kids at noon Saturday." for example - as briefly and clearly as possible - and then do it.

[AlonelyOne]

Well, at the time, I didn't have enough info from her. (ie: dates/times/etc) to make any firm affirmation.