SNW completed

[maxen]

this morning i signed the affidavit, and the negotiations will begin week after next, possibly, i'm told. so far as i can tell i'm ancient history in her mind, and was already so a month after she bolted, and the other side has been pushing a little harder of late to get going, so perhaps i won't get the dramatics of the sort i read about here and elsewhere, but you never know.

[Matt]

What is "SNW"?

[maxen]

statement of net worth

[livednlearned]

this morning i signed the affidavit, and the negotiations will begin week after next, possibly, i'm told. so far as i can tell i'm ancient history in her mind, and was already so a month after she bolted, and the other side has been pushing a little harder of late to get going, so perhaps i won't get the dramatics of the sort i read about here and elsewhere, but you never know.

I sure hope you can avoid the dramatic stuff. Do you have a bottom line going into negotiations? Any idea what she is going to ask for?

[maxen]

i have more assets, so i've accepted that i'm going to lose somewhat. i have a dollar figure in my head, and if i get out for less than that i'll consider it a victory. she was during the marriage BPD-ically presumptuous about my money, and i printed out bill eddy's pdf from this site about family court (though we won't be going to family court, it's still a good statement) and gave it to my psychology-major lawyer. but the good thing about having lawyers is that they deal with each other, not with each other's clients. if my w really wants to fight my claims about what's separate, it'll cost her money for her L to investigate, money i don't think she has. also, my L added a sentence under "any additional things the court should know" saying "the husband reserves his rights as to claims of dissipation of assets resulting from expenditures incurred by wife." so they'll know that if she gets pissy i'll go into her spending history and she won't like that prospect.

she (grudgingly) admitted once (exactly once) that i'm an honest person, and if she just accepts what i admit is marital in the negotiations she shouldn't be too unhappy. the only bone will be the house. there is a large dollop of N in with her B, so of course i can't make very certain predictions. i'm pretty sure though that i won't be facing the drama that you faced l'n'l !

[livednlearned]

i'm pretty sure though that i won't be facing the drama that you faced l'n'l !

That's good! I'm always glad when my stuff makes others feel better about their own 

The fact that you recognize your Ls are going to be dealing with each other, and not with clients -- that will help a lot. It's likely that her L will contain her and talk sense about what she is willing to incur if she doesn't settle.

My only advice is to make sure that the loopholes are drawn as tight as possible. If there is anything in which she has to comply, try to think a few steps ahead so that her non-compliance is all spelled out. Like if you have a QDRO, make sure there are consequences for not doing things in a timely way. Or if her non-compliance incurs costs, she must pay. Or better yet, the costs come out of the assets so you don't have to go after her and collect.

Her L is likely not going to be super careful about the language -- he may just think this is a typical divorce where both parties follow the order. I found that my L was puzzled about how uptight I was when it came to the language. Insist on seeing everything after it is drafted, and don't sign it if you think it could be more watertight. It won't prevent conflict, but it helps ever so slightly to resolve it.

[maxen]

It's likely that her L will contain her and talk sense about what she is willing to incur if she doesn't settle.

If there is anything in which she has to comply, try to think a few steps ahead so that her non-compliance is all spelled out. Like if you have a QDRO, make sure there are consequences for not doing things in a timely way. Or if her non-compliance incurs costs, she must pay. Or better yet, the costs come out of the assets so you don't have to go after her and collect.

thanks, i'll keep that in mind.

[maxen]

negotiation began today, basically. the w wants to sell the house immediately. she's even picked out a broker. my L's first words: "you don't have to accept that broker. you might even want to get an independent appraiser. and you don't have to agree to sell the house immediately." but i am amenable to doing it as quickly as possible.

[maxen]

email from L thursday, forwarding an attachment. the attachment is a copy of a broker's agreement for the sale of the house that is dated october 2, drawn up without my input or even knowledge. it's complete, including valuation and description of the property, ready to go, except for our signatures, so it's not yet in effect. i need to sign it and return it the next day, or her L is going to make a request for judicial intervention because "your client has had this for two weeks and the delays must stop." well, no, i haven't had it. i call L friday. has she had any interaction with party opposite in the last two weeks (perhaps including the forwarding of a broker's agreement which she didn't tell me about)? no (whew). in fact, she herself received a hard copy of said agreement through the mails only the monday or tuesday before (so, three days earlier, not, y'know, two weeks). my L "doesn't like the tone of the email" and will be discussing with party opposite. i was worried when i first saw the language, i thought i had to be, and my L just threw cold water all over it. tall, thin, blonde, heels, and a backbone of steel apparently. 40s and single too, but i would never be so unethical, and i really do have a chance, because as a balding schoolteacher i am GOLD in manhattan. she also detects between the lines that my w is really angry. this make her laugh a little.

so: the w deceived me, blindsided me, sent spontaneous sadistic emails waving her infidelity in the face of the man who is not only her husband but who she knows has major depressive disorder, abandons me just in time for my mother to deteriorate and die, tries to take a unilateral decision about the disposition of our property, and is angry that i'm not divorcing at a pace that suits her.

[Matt]

If the other party's lawyer sent you a letter, threatening to file a complaint because you hadn't responded in a timely way, and if that wasn't true - they hadn't sent it til a few days before - I would suggest forwarding that information to the court, and asking that the other party's lawyer be held in contempt.

You might also want to ask the court to award you legal costs, on the ground that you are paying your lawyer to deal with the other attorney's misbehavior.

Lawyers are officers of the court, and they are not supposed to lie in court documents, or make threats.

If the court won't act, you might also be able to file a complaint with your state's bar association.

[maxen]

If the other party's lawyer sent you a letter, threatening to file a complaint because you hadn't responded in a timely way, and if that wasn't true - they hadn't sent it til a few days before - I would suggest forwarding that information to the court, and asking that the other party's lawyer be held in contempt.

You might also want to ask the court to award you legal costs, on the ground that you are paying your lawyer to deal with the other attorney's misbehavior.

Lawyers are officers of the court, and they are not supposed to lie in court documents, or make threats.

If the court won't act, you might also be able to file a complaint with your state's bar association.

thanks Matt. so far the other side hasn't acted on their insinuation and my L waved it aside in conversation with the other L.

your post leads me to think of how far i've come and how far i have to go. now i "hear" my wife's words from her to her L to my L to me. after d-day last year i was a quivering bowl of FOG (it was worse than that) and would have been terrified of the consequences and would have thought of how i could scramble to defuse. now i hear her words and i realize that nothing's changed with her, still presumptuous and non-responsible, and i know that my instincts were right in the marriage, when i thought i was looking at Sloth, and my Ts were right after the marriage, that she has BPD. i resisted accepting 100% the BPD 'diagnosis' because i wondered if i was taking an easy way out by labeling her. but no, it's just true. and about the 'threat' of an RJI, it just rolls off me.

but it would not have occurred to me to take the pro-active approach you suggest. i'm still playing defense. i've thought of making no demands on her, as she and her L are making on me. i'm going to make a first proposal soon that would solve things at a stroke (she'll be relieved of debt, i'll be left with enough to take the house and have some left over) but i'll bet they won't accept it because she wants my monnneee. it's a proposal that's definitely in my interests, and i've had to work up to the idea. i'm uncomfortable making a proposal in my own interests!    and if they refuse i'll have to work up to the idea of making demands, which i could do (i know what they are). i just don't want to. i want it all to go away now.

[Matt]

Looking back - and reflecting on what many here have said - there are a couple principles that usually seem to work best... .

First, don't stay on "defense" - constantly denying accusations and trying to make the other side happy.  Go on "offense" - not fighting fire with fire, like making lame accusations, but calling out bad behavior and asking to be compensated for it - asking that the court acknowledge what is going on and hold the other side accountable if they are making accusations, or threats, or causing excessive delays, or whatever.  You have to do this in moderation, and without too much emotion - just the facts and a request for what you think is right (and always referring to the best interest of the kids where that is relevant).

Second, be "pro-active" - provide leadership to the process - put forward reasonable, practical solutions.  Don't just react to bad ideas - put forward good ideas - fair and respectful to both parties' legitimate interests.  You'll be seen as credible and that will help, both in the legal process, and as a parent.

[maxen]

put forward reasonable, practical solutions.  Don't just react to bad ideas - put forward good ideas - fair and respectful to both parties' legitimate interests.  You'll be seen as credible and that will help, both in the legal process, and as a parent.

the proposal i'm going to make is the first one either of us has made. it is in my interests certainly, and it won't cost me nothing, but it's in hers too, based on the things she's said she's concerned about.

(no kids tho'.)

[Matt]

put forward reasonable, practical solutions.  Don't just react to bad ideas - put forward good ideas - fair and respectful to both parties' legitimate interests.  You'll be seen as credible and that will help, both in the legal process, and as a parent.

the proposal i'm going to make is the first one either of us has made. it is in my interests certainly, and it won't cost me nothing, but it's in hers too, based on the things she's said she's concerned about.

(no kids tho'.)

Sure - you're right to do some things the way you prefer, and let the other side push back a little, so long as what you are proposing is sensible and reasonable.

Look for win/win solutions where you can find them - ways to meet most of the needs of both parties, the best you can.