Is it common for a pwBPD to be 'normal' to the outside world?

[estelithil]

My uBPDm has many friends, always has. As kids, we were always relieved when a friend phoned or came around because her attention would be on them and she would act "normal", giving us a reprieve. We never bugged her when she was on the ohone or with a friend because, to be honest, we were so happy that she was happy. We could never make her happy like her friends could.

These days she is a psychic empath () who cares very much for other people and their troubles. It is like she is trying to make up for all the abuse she inflicted on us, but with other people, not us. As an adult, I struggle with this. How can you treat your loved ones so terribly and yet be so compassionate toward strangers and friends? Why does the BPD not show itself to those outside the inner family circle (in this case, at least). It seemed to me that she used to be able to switch it off, as it were, to suit her.

Anyone else with experience on this? Any tips to get over it? It is almost like I am jealous of the people in her life who haven't met the BPD side of her and who get the best of her. We almost never did.

[Harri]

Hi Estelithil and welcome.   

My mom was the same in terms of being great with the neighborhood kids.  They all hung at my house and many would come to my mother to talk about problems they had with their parents.  M i n d B O G G L I N G

I am not sure how to deal with this except to realize that BPD is a disorder of emotional dysregulation that occurs in intimacy.  The most abusive and damaging behaviors  will show up in intimate relationships, usually with spouses, family, very close friends.  These people she is so good and supportive with simply do not trigger her behaviors.  The thing is, because it is a personality issue, there will be some 'tells' but most people are not going to be watchful for such things or, if they do see them, will dismiss it as an anomaly.  So while i have seen them quickly pull themselves together when someone comes over unexpectedly, I do not think it is so much a switch they turn on and off, but more that they do not feel triggered by these people.

I think it is normal to feel jealous about this.  I used to feel extremely annoyed when my friends told me how great she was.  Recently, I ran into an old childhood friend that I have not seen for about 35 years.  He told me how great my mother was and even referred to me and my brother as being spoiled (he said it nicely tho).  Several years ago I would have wanted to spit I'd have been so mad.  I just smiled and nodded.  They just won't get it and they really don't need to.

I hope that helped a bit. 

[MyLifeNow]

It does seem to be pretty common. Only my dad's best friend could tell there was something wrong, because of the dark and depressed moods dad would get into occasionally when they spent time together. He had a sense that there was something wrong between me and dad, but he had no idea how bad it really was. Someone who hasn't experienced that kind of abuse or personally noticed something odd about the pwBPD is, in my opinion, highly unlikely to understand. I've had a number of conversations with my best friend about it now. He accepts and understands that the relationship was abusive and unhealthy, but only after I had been NC for almost a year. He doesn't truly understand it, but it's enough for me that he gets that my family wasn't as perfect as we tried to make it look.

[drummerboy]

My ex and I have a few mutual friends. To them she comes across as totally normal. Bubbly, cute, enthusiastic, a joy to be around. But her mom, dad the ex before me and I know different. They only reveal their true selves to those they get closest to. Their whole life to the outside world is a huge act and they are brilliant actors.

[jmanvo2015]

Yes, I have a great deal of experience with this. My uBPD mother was very popular in my family of origin.  She was idolized and seen as the self-sacrificing mother who had raised her daughter when my deadbeat biological father left us because he was too "selfish."  She remarried my uNPD stepfather and, to the outside world, they were a great couple - attractive, successful and fun.  To me, they were abusive, cold, critical and shaming.

I thought people didn't see it, but it has caught up with them.  My uBPD stepfather lost his youngest son in a fire on his 21st birthday and his only other son hasn't talked to him since 2002.  I once told him that I thought this was God's payback for his cruelty towards me and I believe that. 

As for my mom, age has not been kind to her.  She is a uBPD with many narcissistic tendencies, so aging is not a fun thing for her.

Basically, behind the scenes, they're two miserable people.  However, nobody on the outside ever saw this.  I deal with it now through "detachment" and a lot of work on my own self-love and self-esteem through therapy and support groups.  I also walk away quickly from narcissistic people in my professional and personal life and that has helped me a lot.

[HappyChappy]

The theory states that a BPD seek narcisstic supply as a basic need. They want attention at any cost; love or anger, they just need emotional supply. So at home, with kids too young to leave a BPD has no need to charm. With friends they realise they must apply their charm. My BPD was the devil incarnate when we were young. Now we’ve left she's charming.

The other dynamic is that a BPD mother, doesn’t really want to attend to her children. She’s the Queen, it is others that should attend to her. She resents it, she resents her kids. She doesn’t have to attend to her friends as much. She can get payoff from friends almost immediately. This is partly why a BPD mom may parentify her kids and encourage them to do housework from early on. Hope that helps. 

[HappyChappy]

Woops!

[Shameful]

I am a newbie, so don't have much wisdom.  Just want to say I understand and give hugs!  My Father to everyone looks successful.  He tells everyone how proud he is of me, but to me he tells me how stupid I am and everything other negative thing under the sun.  Work made him happy we never did.  As a child Mother was always happy with friends and drugs.  When she wasn't then watch out, evil pure evil.  My Brother and I would try to make them happy but we couldn't either.  Just were there emotional dumpster, and burden.  I understand wanting to be able to experience those joyful times, but in reality for me and my parents it isn't going to happen.  I need to except that they are not capable for sharing that kind of relationship with me, it is to dangerous for them in there minds.  Hang in there!

[estelithil]

Thanks everyone, your stories are greatly appreciated.

[sisterofbpd]

With out a doubt! DBPD/Bipolar Sis has always done this.  Nasty to me, my brother and parents but a saint to everyone one else, that is until her Bipolar and drug use caught up with her.  At least to the outside world it is obvious that something is off.  Not sure why that it is important to me, maybe it's just the validation, but i still don't think they realize how nasty she really is.

UNBPD Mom, has always put on an act around others. To the point where the facade was hard to keep up with.

The theory states that a BPD seek narcisstic supply as a basic need. They want attention at any cost; love or anger, they just need emotional supply. So at home, with kids too young to leave a BPD has no need to charm. With friends they realise they must apply their charm. My BPD was the devil incarnate when we were young. Now we’ve left she's charming.

Wow! I can totally see this with my Mom! All this time I thought she has just gotten better since I left.

The other dynamic is that a BPD mother, doesn’t really want to attend to her children. She’s the Queen, it is others that should attend to her. She resents it, she resents her kids. She doesn’t have to attend to her friends as much. She can get payoff from friends almost immediately. This is partly why a BPD mom may parentify her kids and encourage them to do housework from early on. Hope that helps.

I can also see this with my Mom. I thought she was just lazy! I was cooking on the stove at the age of 4 and doing a ridiculous amount of housework for my age.

[Ziggiddy]

estelithil

great topic thread!

I totally get what you mean about the 'jealousy' thing - for want of a better description.

For the longest time I was so proud of the fact that my friends all adored my mum and even had fairly separate friendships with her. I have noticed her be incredibly sympathetic and insightful to them where she is only like that with me if I behave in very conditional ways.

Oddly enough, it was one of my closest friends that put me onto the fact that my mother is BPD - very gently and discreetly leading me to the conclusion.

And I will confess, it is incredibly liberating to me that she cannot stand my mother's behaviours - my friend regularly points out when things are off kilter and helps me to understand what is not normal. I feel a kinship to her that I don't feel to those who don't see how disordered she really is. Or worse her friends and mine that advise me to make allowances for her "she's doing the best she can, poor thing. Can't you be kinder? More sympathetic? More forgiving?" THAT is the crazymaking part!

I am not sure how to deal with this except to realize that BPD is a disorder of emotional dysregulation that occurs in intimacy.  The most abusive and damaging behaviors  will show up in intimate relationships, usually with spouses, family, very close friends.  These people she is so good and supportive with simply do not trigger her behaviors.  The thing is, because it is a personality issue, there will be some 'tells' but most people are not going to be watchful for such things or, if they do see them, will dismiss it as an anomaly.  So while i have seen them quickly pull themselves together when someone comes over unexpectedly, I do not think it is so much a switch they turn on and off, but more that they do not feel triggered by these people.

  They just won't get it and they really don't need to.

 

Harri - what a great way to explain it. You have blown my mind right open to look at it in this way. OF COURSE <headslap>

Their friends/our friends are not extensions of themselves so there is no need for them to feel threatened and invoke protective behaviours.

I must admit that in undeceiving people about my uBPDm these ast few months it has been incredibly revealing to see their responses.

Some get it right away, others have long suspected something. Some never saw it but trust me enough to look into it and support me even if they are not sure ... .but by far the majority don'[t see it.

I am impressed by the way you ended that - 'they really don't need to' - that shows how far your own development has come. You validated yourself! Congratulations!

[Trollvaaken]

The other dynamic is that a BPD mother, doesn’t really want to attend to her children. She’s the Queen, it is others that should attend to her. She resents it, she resents her kids. She doesn’t have to attend to her friends as much. She can get payoff from friends almost immediately. This is partly why a BPD mom may parentify her kids and encourage them to do housework from early on. Hope that helps. 

Sounds familiar. My mother has many friends, but she has made a few enemies along the way. I have had friends meeting her for the first time and then confessing to me that they were sort of scared of her. Which I could understand.

[Harri]

Ziggiddy, thank you for your kind words!  They feel good and I am glad they made sense to you.     I did not realize that was a self-validating comment, so thank you for that insight! 

[claudiaduffy]

My mom is one of the more low-key uBPDs - at least, most of the time - but anyone who's been friends/acquaintances with her for very long will pick up on some of her oddness and neediness. They may not see her nastier aspects (she doesn't reveal them near as much anymore, now that she lives by herself), but there's a reason she can't keep close friends, and it's not because she's not trying desperately to have them.

My uBPDmil can't possibly come across as "normal" to the outside world, but she presents herself as a high-strung, emotionally generous diva. Uses the title "drama queen" with pride. So people, at least for a while, think of her as a darling charmer. But her list of people that have blocked her on FB is rather impressive   and she goes through her splitting cycles of new friends so quickly that she leaves a wake of folks who are fully aware that she is a royal piece of work.

[Panda39]

My SO's uBPDxw can appear normal for short periods of time initially but it doesn't last. 

When she catches on that someone has caught on to her she will drop them.  It could be time for a new doctor because she had a conflict with his receptionist... .It could be time to move out of a friends house because they are getting close enough to see the BPD start bleeding through... .time to look for someone new to do "business" with because they start sniffing out the B.S... .don't like her daughter's teacher because she won't do what she (unreasonably) wants so she needs to switch teachers... .can't charm and B.S. the therapist better quit... .

The flip side is all the "healthy" people that also eventually catch on to her and stay away on their own.

The only people she seems to be able to have long term relationships with are other dysfunctional people or people that want something from her that are all in co-dependent relationships with her... .the friend that thrives on all the drama (and has a car), the brain damaged friend (divorce attorney) (literally - had a brain tumor removed), the alcoholic friend (free child care  ), the religious friend that wants to convert her (has a couch she can sleep on).

Are any of these people really "friends" or is it just the mutual using society?

[claudiaduffy]

The only people she seems to be able to have long term relationships with are other dysfunctional people or people that want something from her that are all in co-dependent relationships with her... .the friend that thrives on all the drama (and has a car), the brain damaged friend (divorce attorney) (literally - had a brain tumor removed), the alcoholic friend (free child care  ), the religious friend that wants to convert her (has a couch she can sleep on).

Are any of these people really "friends" or is it just the mutual using society?

Mutual using society! Good name for it. I'm going to remember that... .your list looks a lot like my mom's "friends" list.

[funfunctional]

We used to call that a street angel and house devil.     They don't know they are doing it, however,   she may not be able to approach her own (you and siblings0.  It is easier to help other people and not be emotionally really responsible for them.   Less pressure.   

As an empathy your mom may have a lot of fear/anxiety over interacting with her own two.   

Do you think you can tell her this?  Has she changed that much?

[yogibear60]

Oh my, I was just telling my husband today that I was jealous of her friends and some family members because of her attention to them.  They see (saw) a side of her that I yearned for.  I was never able to reach her.  I used to tell her that if she treated other people like she treated me she would have no friends.  She would just look at me with her steely blue eyes, eyes that reflected nothing but contempt.  I understand the nature of the disorder but sometimes that doesn't help replace the hurt.  MANY, MANY hug to you.

[estelithil]

   

As an empathy your mom may have a lot of fear/anxiety over interacting with her own two.   

Do you think you can tell her this?  Has she changed that much?

She has changed a lot since we were kids and moved out but I suspect that is because we don't live with her now and aren't exposed to most of her rages anymore. To be honest I think she would shy away if I tried to talk to her about it or she would more likely be adamant that things happened differently than we remember (she has a habit of forgetting all the terrible things she did to us as kids and refuses the notion that she was anything less than the perfect mother who always fed, clothed and loved her kids, which is NOT the way it happened!). This just upsets me and makes me cranky that she refuses to (or actually can't) remember so I tend not to bring stuff like this up with her. Let sleeping dogs lie as it were.

[estelithil]

I understand the nature of the disorder but sometimes that doesn't help replace the hurt.  MANY, MANY hug to you.

Exactly. Intellectually I get that she can't be normal but it still hurts, especially now that I am pregnant with my first child (what is WITH that?).

[funfunctional]

I understand Ethelithil.   Another example of that dream.  We dream their reactions would be normal and healing and they simply are not.   Your handling as best as you can.   

Mental illness, anxiety, stress, depression... .all these things cloud the person experiencing it.    They can act in very destructive ways and it is sad.    I love my mom and she is not BPD but she had anxiety and depression and acted out a lot.  Our house was full of yelling and drama and DAILY.     I had a knot in my stomach as I locked myself in my room most of the time.    I could hear my mother downstairs with my dad talking/yelling/ranting/raving for what seemed like hours about how bad my brother was.   It was disheartening.    I understand my brother was a challenge.   Why he was?  Was it parenting?  WAs it the soul he is?   Not sure.

Later in life I saw her calm and peaceful and she has good qualities.  My mom was also well liked by other people. People she worked with.    Etc.

But your experience I am sure is different but nonetheless these experiences stick with us for life.     When we have our own children memories resurface.  BUT,   now is our chance to experience peace and love and hugs and kisses with our own and make their lives better.