Money/Self Care Questions

[disneyland]

I am pretty new here.  My wife is BPD (or has BPD features according to her therapist).  At one point her therapist said she thought she was a high functioning BPD, but she also hasn't been able to hold a job for the past four years (longest she was at a job was 4 months).  In four years of marriage we have dug a big financial hole.  Either through credit card debt, selling/buying houses too many times, etc. we have gone through around $80,000 we didn't have.  Luckily before we were married I was really good with money so I had some savings, but obviously that is long gone now.  At one point she said she wanted to learn to be better with money and wanted to help me with the bills, but her therapist basically said if he his better with money let him do it.  A little over a year ago I took away her access to a credit/debit card except one for a gas station so she could put gas in the car.  I push to go grocery shopping with her because if I don't I get afraid she will spend part of the money on treats.

Since I took over the budget I admit I totally hide money from her.  I tell her we are broke, but we do have a little savings (not much maybe around $1,000) but I know if she knew that it would be gone fast.  Since I have taken over the money I give her $25 as her own spending money each month.  I know it isn't much, but we are trying to save money to move because our neighborhood is not the greatest (drug activity, neighbors on parole, at one point marshals were knocking on our door asking about a neighbor that was wanted for assault, crappy school, etc.).  Also like I mentioned she can't hold down a job.  Right now even if she could I wouldn't really want her to because we have two small kids (3 yrs, 6 mos) and she breastfeeds the younger.  I am a public school teacher so my salary isn't the highest. 

Recently she has felt really burned out and her therapist has said she needs more self care.  She wants an increase in her budget to about $100 a month.  We talked about how to do that and her idea was to decrease how much we put in an emergency fund and how much we use to pay off debt.  I don't like the idea I think it will eventually mean we have to stay living where we are longer.  She said its like if she had cancer, wouldn't I be willing to pay for the best doctor? 

All of this kind of hit me with no warning so I didn't know how to respond.  I told her we would try this budget out.  I think what will happen, though, is that something will happen and we wont have enough emergency money to cover it and we will be stuck here for awhile.  We wanted to move before our three year old started school, but this just makes it harder.  When we talked about where to get the money, she didn't want to take it from our "moving" fund, but when I told her that indirectly that would happen if we have to fix one of our cars (both have high miles) it didn't seem to sink in... ."but I need this for my mental health". 

Part of me has a really hard time with this and I'm feeling a little resentful and part of me thinks, maybe she really needs this and I need to just let it go.  I just don't want to live here and I don't want our kids growing up in this environment.  Just looking for suggestions from people that might have been through something similar and are more experienced at dealing with this disease.  Sorry this is so long... .

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[formflier]

Along the theory that you want to discourage bad behavior... .and encourage good... .

I would set aside the $100 and let her know that each dollar of income she brings in... ."unlocks" a dollar in that fund.

assure her that it is correct... .the $100 isn't that hard... .for either of you...

I'm giving this advice without much information... .so this is something to think about for a while.

In general... .giving in to their demands... without them being part of "soothing" their issues... .is not a good idea.

The best thing... is for her to earn the extra $100... .

But... .change with those that exhibit traits of BPD... .is generally a series of TLC  "tiny little changes"... .

What would be a tiny change that seems possible... .?

[disneyland]

If we had no children or they were older I would agree.  I really wish it was as simple as telling her that for that to work in our budget she needed to get a job and I know that to earn $100 a month wouldn't take a lot of hours.  But we have two kids under three and we are both against using day care so that really limits what we can do.  I know both of us feel not using day care is the most important priority. 

Plus all of this came about because she has been feeling overwhelmed with her current responsibilities.  I don't think she could hack a job right now.  Her therapist suggested this plan, which also makes it difficult because it isn't just well I want some more spending money, its "i need this for my mental health".  I guess I'm just looking for opinions... .is this really important for her mental health?  Am I letting the mistakes of the past influence how I feel too much?  Is this an acceptable request by her?  She wasn't demanding when we talked about it.  It was more a plea.

[AnnaK]

What is actually "self-care"?

Maybe she needs to go out more to walk in the park? It's also self-care and it is free.

[AnnaK]

There are lots of things that are included to the tag of "self-care", and many of them do not involve monetary issues. Ask her for suggestions (or give her suggestions) of self-care that comes for free (going to the beach, spending more time outside, going jogging, taking a hot bath... .and so on)

[jcarter4856]

I have a quick practical question for you: if you're short of money, how do you pay for her therapy? (note I'm not being snarky, I'd really like to get both myself and uBPDw in therapy but the cost, even though we have good health insurance, is a problem -- sounds like somehow you've solved this problem).

[disneyland]

I totally agree that a lot of self care could be free.  I know that she really enjoys shopping and getting her hair done and so on and she really wants to do those things.  I've heard her therapist say that she enjoys those same type of things, so if that is what makes you happy you need to do it. 

I totally agree, though, that a lot of things she could do would be free.  I think I'm struggling with this because I enjoy going outside, going for walks, etc.  My wife really doesn't.  She would rather sit on the couch and watch a movie.  But then I'm thinking maybe I could take the kids for a walk while she watches a movie?  Anyway, thank you for validating my viewpoint.  I was just wondering if I was being too narrow minded or something.  Now I just have to figure out where to go from here because I already said yes to the plan of letting her spend $100 a month so if I go back on that it will be interpreted as me not caring about her mental health.

[disneyland]

I have a quick practical question for you: if you're short of money, how do you pay for her therapy? (note I'm not being snarky, I'd really like to get both myself and uBPDw in therapy but the cost, even though we have good health insurance, is a problem -- sounds like somehow you've solved this problem).

Hi,

Two things.  First, my employer offers a high deductible health plan that comes with a health savings account.  This has really helped us because that money is in an account that can only be used for medical expenses and can't be touched for anything else.  Second, honestly I think we just got lucky finding this therapist.  At first she told us she was on our health plan, but in reality she wasn't (honest mistake on her part).  She used to work at an office that accepted our plan, but once in private practice she wasn't on their network anymore.  When we told her that we got billed for over $100 a session, she wrote off that bill and now only charges us $30 a session.  Since she isn't on our plan it doesn't go towards our deductible or anything, but its less than a co pay on our plan. 

I've heard of other therapist that do a "sliding scale" of what they charge, but I don't know how common it is.  Like I said I think we just got lucky because I think a lot of people would be like, that is what I charge I'm sorry if you can't afford it. 

[jcarter4856]

Two things.  First, my employer offers a high deductible health plan that comes with a health savings account.  This has really helped us because that money is in an account that can only be used for medical expenses and can't be touched for anything else.  Second, honestly I think we just got lucky finding this therapist.  At first she told us she was on our health plan, but in reality she wasn't (honest mistake on her part).  She used to work at an office that accepted our plan, but once in private practice she wasn't on their network anymore.  When we told her that we got billed for over $100 a session, she wrote off that bill and now only charges us $30 a session.  Since she isn't on our plan it doesn't go towards our deductible or anything, but its less than a co pay on our plan. 

I've heard of other therapist that do a "sliding scale" of what they charge, but I don't know how common it is.  Like I said I think we just got lucky because I think a lot of people would be like, that is what I charge I'm sorry if you can't afford it. 

Ok thanks, most informative. You're basically paying for therapy yourself but lucky to have a fairly low cost. Around here therapists (the cheap, non-PhD ones) are charging $140/hr.

[formflier]

Ok thanks, most informative. You're basically paying for therapy yourself but lucky to have a fairly low cost. Around here therapists (the cheap, non-PhD ones) are charging $140/hr.

It's worth it... .taking on r/s issues that include BPD traits... .without professional help... .is not a good plan.

[disneyland]

Update... today I asked her to be ok with doing a self care plan that included things that are free (having free time to herself to read or watch a movie, going to the library, going to a movie, going on a walk, etc.).  I also asked if she could be ok with $75 a month to do the things that do cost because if we don't change our budget we will probably have to stay living in a bad neighborhood and do something like lower our life insurance and have smaller birthdays and Christmases.  She freaked out and told me that I don't care enough about her mental health and asked if I wanted to call her therapist about it.  I think she will just have to accept we will be living here for awhile.  It bothers me because our kids will suffer, but I don't really know what else to do.  The smaller birthdays and Christmas are ok to me its just the living here that bothers me.  I'm just frustrated right now.  I feel like she doesn't really care about the same goals I do.

[formflier]

  She freaked out and told me that I don't care enough about her mental health and asked if I wanted to call her therapist about it. 

I'm hoping you took her up on this?  What did you say or do?

[disneyland]

Update... I asked her if it would work ok for her to have a little less money per month for self care and she got mad and told me I don't care about her mental health.  It makes me feel like she cares more about doing her hair and nails than our kids growing up in bad neighborhood. 

[formflier]

Update... I asked her if it would work ok for her to have a little less money per month for self care and she got mad and told me I don't care about her mental health.

What was your response to this... .please be as detailed... .word for word... .as possible.  pwBPD say these things because they are looking to get a reaction... .note... .this is usually not a conscious decision... .like something the "plot" to do... just part of their emotional issues.

  It makes me feel like she cares more about doing her hair and nails than our kids growing up in bad neighborhood. 

Also... .while we want to pay attention to their language... we also want to pay attention to ours.  It is important for us "nons" to understand that we are in charge of our emotions and feelings.  An appropriate amount of detachment is usually needed to solidify this.  People can't "make" us feel certain ways... .  Our feelings don't run us... .we run our feelings.  Especially once we realize that the words and actions are part of a disorder... .and not part of a plot to hurt us. 

And... .I would also say she kinda has a point here... .  It is very important to get mentally healthy... get centered... .be able to regulate emotions.  Is that more important that the house you live in... .?  Each of us has to make that value judgement for ourselves... .

Now... .in this case... I can think of several other things that could be done to get the same effect as hair and nails...

I'm not siding with your wife... .just making sure we see the general principle involved.  I do think she has the principle correct... .the execution of that principle in real life... .I would think that could use some tweaking.

[Wanda]

if you really don't have more to give you don't.    if your BPD is high functioning i wonder what mine is/?   mine  is suppose to be high functioning as well really good actually to the penny on bills. and  holds a job last one 14 years but didn't leave till he found the one he is at over one year  now. he doesn't spend much money just his allowance. HE has anger and diffusion take three days and he has even improve that.Humm so it makes me wonder... .8:-

read the tools on communication maybe using that to tell her what will happen if she has more. good luck

[disneyland]

Yes I think she often succeeds at drawing me into the drama. I have a hard time detaching sometimes because its always right in my face.  We live in the same house.  My breaks are when she goes to school two nights a week and when I'm at work.  I know I need to do a better job than I do at regulating myself.  I used to do a lot better at detaching, but I think I'm getting run down.  As soon as I get home she wants me to take over watching the kids.  I understand where she is coming from that she needs a break, but it wears me down.  Also on the weekend she has me take the kids while she sleeps in.  I think she oversleeps a lot.  I have to get up at 5:00 during the week.  I haven't slept in since the last time I was seriously ill.

My reaction to when she said no I need my full $100 a month was basically ok fine and I walked away and I was angry.  After I cooled down for a minute I said I just wanted to talk about some options.  I really wanted to know is staying where we live an ok trade off with her having a higher monthly allowance.  Is she ok if I decrease our life insurance policy to make our budget work.  Basically what is she ok with giving up to make it work.  It seems, though, that each time we have a conversation like this what she values changes so its hard to have a long term plan.  At one point moving was the most important thing to both of us, now I don't think it is.  These changes happened over the course of a couple of weeks.

  It makes me feel like she cares more about doing her hair and nails than our kids growing up in bad neighborhood. 

And... .I would also say she kinda has a point here... .  It is very important to get mentally healthy... get centered... .be able to regulate emotions.  Is that more important that the house you live in... .?  Each of us has to make that value judgement for ourselves... .

Now... .in this case... I can think of several other things that could be done to get the same effect as hair and nails...

I'm not siding with your wife... .just making sure we see the general principle involved.  I do think she has the principle correct... .the execution of that principle in real life... .I would think that could use some tweaking.

I don't have a problem with self care or paying for it, but does it really have to cost $100 a month?  We already pay for therapy about $100-$125 a month and I also pay for her to go to school because its something that helps give her and us a break.  That amounts to another $80 a month or so.  That doesn't even include what we pay for all her meds (she is bipolar as well).  I feel that typically I find a way for her to do what she needs to, but there is also a limit.  I'm struggling because I think she is so zeroed in on self care being doing her hair and nails.  I wish she would think outside the box a bit.  But after our conversation I don't think she will. 

I was just hoping by bringing up to her what we might be giving up that she would be willing to meet me somewhere in the middle to make things work, but I guess I was wrong.