So what do you do when SET pisses them off

[hurthusband]

ok... what do you do when you use SET, and they say "stop repeating what I am saying and have a dialogue with me"

ok... i am restating what I believe she is saying, i am saying that it must be hard, I am possibly a bit weaker on the truth aspect, but im trying to talk about what can be done

the problem is she still says i cannot empathize and have no idea what its like.  I am finally just said "i honestly am scared and not sure how to communicate with you.  I do not want to sound judgemental, I do not want to criticize, I want to say encouraging thigns and be helpful but anytime i say something, I am either communicating it incorrectly or it is not coming across correctly because it is being percieved to you as an attack so I am just not sure what to say or do"

alot of her statements are how therapy is ruining her, and not helping... how I need to change too.  Now I know I need to as far as boundaries and so forth (she even said I was a pussy too)  I am just not sure what to do if the tools piss her off

It was a long weekend.  came home to her drunk on friday... .as night progressed she became nasty and violent smashing an end table into peices and putting holes in wall.  I never lost my temper, I just stated that I was going to leave if she continued... she cursed me and slammed door but nothing else happened so I just slept in another room

next day I had to take off work to deal with plumber and she demanded I clean the house cause she was embarrassed and she had to go to work, so I figured it was reasonable.  I did... spent all day... no appreciation.  next day i spent first 5 hours of day trying to keep peace and then last 6 hours doing laundry and handling kids as she slept.  she got up as i was about to go to sleep and reamed me... I raised voice slightly then apologized and lowered it... all of this SET crap and it upsetting her happened.

I really do not know of what to do.  This morning at 5 am it was pissed off cause laundy and rooms she thought smelled... nobody else could smell anything... crazy...

[formflier]

 

I am a fan of "help me understand... .how you want me to communicate with you".

What it sounds like you are doing is more active listening... .than SET.

You are looking for agreement that you have heard right... .

One thing to be careful of... .if they keep changing how they want to be talked to... .just pick a style and stick with it.

"moving the bar" is a frustrating thing they can do... .it seems to be used to keep the conversation off the real topic... .so the focus is on "you should have communicated like I said... .versus how they feel about an issue... ."

[hurthusband]

I am at work right now... my kid just got a email from teacher saying he is failing and my wife is coming unglued saying she is lookign bad to everyone at work...

I feel like I am going to pass out right now and struggling to breath from doing all she needs me to do and dealing with my work which is coming apart right now...

I do not know what to do...

I cannot say anything about help or I cannot handle this cause she is coming unglued... i feel like im going to throw up right now...

I dont know what to do

[Grey Kitty]

 

My only advice is spend more time getting yourself clear of her when she's distressed at you, and less time trying to calm her down from dysregulation.

Tools like validation and SET help do help, but they won't stop her from using you as an emotional punching bag. You can't take much more of it, and only you can stop it.

It is not your issue if she looks bad to people at her workplace... .or even people at your workplace.

[formflier]

 

I agree with GK.  Do what you can... .then stop.  Let her clean up the rest.

Or... she can let the rest go.

What can you do to have there be less time for her to complain... and more time for you to get yourself stronger?

[waverider]

There is probably too much abuse, and tolerance of abuse going on. Hence it is effecting you mentally. You need a boundary about being exposed to this. Start protecting yourself mor ethan "understanding" her. You have reached your limit.

This is a choice not an obligation.

[hurthusband]

There is probably too much abuse, and tolerance of abuse going on. Hence it is effecting you mentally. You need a boundary about being exposed to this. Start protecting yourself mor ethan "understanding" her. You have reached your limit.

This is a choice not an obligation.

Last night I got home... she was in bed at 6:15.  She was angry cause I said was going to pick up an ebay order she placed that needed to be returned instead of having it on me already.  I returned it to UPS, and got home.  She came down stairs and found a Subway sandwhich I had gotten her the day before.  She had not asked for it, but I thought she might be hungry at somepoint cause she wouldnt leave her room. Of course, she got pissed because it had pickles and not green peppers on it.  (keep in mind she never asked me to get a sandwhich).  She then looked in mail and saw the pastor of my church has sent her a postcard saying "on vacation but still praying for your sick parents".  Her mother has lung cancer and not doing well after just finishing up treatment for thyroid cancer.  Her father next week goes in for valve replacement and triple bypass.  She went ballistic.  She talked about how she hates religion and is an atheist and how dare they send her that.  F them... F my mother who is religious and tends to say she is praying for her alot.  She got mad at me for not telling my mom to stop send her anything about that. 

I thought about it a second... I thought... these people are just trying to be nice.  Its not malicious.  My wife is convinced its an agenda to try and convert her.  I think its just them trying to be nice and unable to really do anything else about it, doing what they think they can.  I expressed that I have no problem with her views on atheism and that is her choice, but I have no control over what these people say or do.  I do not like being yelled at and abused the past few days and that I was going to leave until she calmed down.

I went to my car where she followed saying she is going to her room and that I can come back in.  I said, I was still going and would be back in about 20 minutes because while I had remained calm, I needed to calm myself

so i did... came back... finished laundry, handled kids, got woken up at 5:30 am to her angry

[formflier]

 

What do you do when she starts saying f this and f that?

I'm wondering if your actions are saying that is ok?  That seems like a clear... .extreme example of abusive behavior.

So... questions... .

How long has that type of speech... behavior been going on?

How long have you had the same response to it?

Are you content with this behavior... and your response to it?

Is this a place you would like to take more of a stand?  Have more of a barrier?

[KateCat]

These are important questions from formflier.

I'm also wondering what happens after events like this, and whether the aftermath is really felt by your wife: "she became nasty and violent smashing an end table into peices and putting holes in wall."

[waverider]

In order to have effective boundaries you need to be clear within yourself at which point in this process did it start to effect you.

For some it may be the use of bad language, to others thats not a big deal.

Is it yelling?

Painting black others may trigger a desire in you to defend them, you can learn to let that wash as part of the disorder.

Your actions were correct, the next step is to put yourself in the right head space were you are feeling the actions rather than just doing them. eg You are saying nothing because you dont feel the need to say anything rather than because you have learned its best not to. This is were you are truly learning to separate the person from the disorder. It is hard.

You did right in still leaving as you were taking control of looking after your emotions, rather than following her push/pull swing. If you had stayed she would have still felt validating in dumping on you knoiwing she can stop you leaving. You would have still felt dominated.

[bpbreakout]

Your experience sounds like a lot of "dialogues" I have had with my BPDw over the years & it sounds like you have fairly young kids so there are lots of ways you are going to be pulled in.

It sounds if if you are using SET fine & in your circumstances (which I know very well) its difficult if not impossible to be empathetic all the time, that's why its best if possible for BPDw to have a therapist. Personally I think it's fine to detach or walk away if SET isn't working as everyone says it will only make you feel worse if you don't & become the punching bag. Also it gives her less opportunity to blame her violent reactions on you. We have had so many arguments where BPDw has initiated something by saying something incredibly demaning or insulting which I have reacted badly to and it then becomes "things were said on both sides".

One thing I noticed in the thread is that both her parents are quite ill, there is a bit of drinking, you seem to have young kids (one of them stuggling a bit at school ?) and you are both working possibly full time - that's a stressfull stage in anyone's life for both of you so don't be too hard on yourself.

My BPDw has sick parents (in more ways than one  ) and she has very extreme reactions to this which affect our whole household but which of course are all our fault.

Good luck 

[hurthusband]

Good insight

Our kids are not that young.  Well technically they are my step kids which is always a sort of problem because that is used against me sometimes.  They are 15 and 13.  They are starting to ask me why their mother is never around now cause she will not interact with them at all.  I am now doing all the cooking, cleaning, homework, working, etc.  She started  a new job about 7 weeks ago and seems to be okay with it, it is her first actual job in about 6 years.  Last job stopped when she attempted suicide.  Her mother is no doubt borderline too.  Her parents honestly are not very fair at all.  They walk into our home whenever they please... they book a vacation for themselves and my wife then demand payment while calling it a graduation gift.  Nevermind ever asking either of us if the times work with our work schedules nor if she even wants to go...

basically i have no help at all with her.  Last night she came home after drinking with her friend and of course, I had once again skipped my job and work to handle what all needed to be handled for kids... I had her a birthday gift.  I knew what would happen.  It was a dress for Neiman's.  She opened it and immediately hated it.  Said you never get a girl a dress as a gift.  She hates it.  I do not know her at all.  She then gets mad cause it was on sale... I knew this would happen.  When i found the dress a few days back it was not on sale... when i went to actually buy it yesterday it became on sale... this angers my wife.  I nearly told the clerk to mark the dress up to full price just so she wouldnt get pissed over that.

So she talked about how I do not know her and she does not feel anything for me anymore.  How she cannot handle everything... how I need to make a 30 minute drive to take her to get her car before work which is the opposite direction of my job which is 40 minutes away as is.  That is fine, but no real thanks.  Finally this morning she thanked me for cleaning up the table she broke into pieces few days ago in a rage.  I had left it going to make her clean it up but house cleaner coming today and its not her fault to clean.  Didnt see the glass and of course got shards of glass in my hand. 

I had also gotten her tickets to a comedian that she likes that went on sale yesterday.  of couse she claims thats waiting til last minute... so that does not count.  I sent her flowers today, i know she is going to say i am just doing that to make up things but that its not that easy...

originally, she had to have a Mac when we could have gotten a better computer for $1500 and instead she had to have a $2300 mac.  so i did that last month.  that was supposed to be partly her bday present according to her... then she said she got herself a designer handbag on sale and that would be her gift... then found out that bag she got ripped off on... .

Her friend told me last night that what would be a good gift she wants is granite countertops... .yea i would like those too... we need counters... but one problem...   I just wrote checks yesterday for a mortgage payment and health insurance without the funds in the bank to even cover that.  In past 2 years she has nearly maxed out all my credit cards putting me from 0 owed to $50k... .our kids bday is Sunday... she only likes particular granite soo granite countertops really are not something I have any way of getting her at this time. 

The irony of her working now is that she started a job at $11 an hour while I make about 5x more.  She claims now she gets to do what she wants cause she contributing.  Then has the gall to say "im going to get a raise to about $15 an hour in january, you need to get a large raise by then or we are just not growing together".  This coming from somebody who didnt actually work for 6 years while i put her through college.  She is early career and I am mid career.  I wear year old shoes making 6 figures and drive a 11 year old vehicle while she is driving a late model Lexus and using designer handbags... but I think only of myself and am a miser...

O well, its all my own fault.  Being her bday I feel extremely hesitant to really put my foot down on anything.  I really am not sure if I just totally screwed up her bday and shouldnt be upset...

she was saying we need time apart.  I didnt argue.  I said I want her to be happy.  I do not like idea, but we have tried about everything else.  She then asked me to move out.  Out of the home I bought and she tore up.  the home that the kids are in that I am basically raising.

I do not really care... Honestly right now I just want some sleep.  Last night she tried the chew out thing for an hour.  Didnt get to sleep until after midnight and I was scared to sleep in same room with her.  She then woke me up at 4 am blasting me again so i went downstairs never really sleeping.  Previous two nights I was up til midnight getting kids clothes and stuff ready after work while she slept before being blasted at 5 am by her and woken up... .

[ydrys017]

    I know this cycle, because I'm living it too.  I don't have a lot of advice, but I'm learning to 'take care of myself' & 'taking a walk' when SET doesn't work.  Both have produced positively.  I'm beginning to see that perhaps a little self confidence from having a mental strategy has slowed my uBPDw down a little... .essentially, I'm not so easy to push around anymore.

[waverider]

A high degree of persuasive entitlement that you have fed far too long has left her acting like a spoilt kid.

She needs to control you so that you can't control her. Choosing her taste in a dress is seen as controlling her choices. She saw it as a chance to get whatever she wanted taken away.

Any attempt to "unspoil" a person with such an entrenched sense of entitlement is going to take a lot of strength and courage

[hurthusband]

A high degree of persuasive entitlement that you have fed far too long has left her acting like a spoilt kid.

She needs to control you so that you can't control her. Choosing her taste in a dress is seen as controlling her choices. She saw it as a chance to get whatever she wanted taken away.

Any attempt to "unspoil" a person with such an entrenched sense of entitlement is going to take a lot of strength and courage

did not think of that...

she had asked me before to pick out something and she likes me to do that, but this she didnt...

hmm... so many traps with BPD

[formflier]

 

Try to get some sleep... so you can do some clear thinking.

Go back up and read Waveriders post about unspoiling taking courage... .

It's also going to take consistency

Do not start down that path... unless you are going to stay on it.

If you start... .and let her get you off track and back to spoiling... .bad bad bad... .worse than staying where you are at.

Also... if she ever breaks something else in a rage... .I recommend leaving it... .and ask the maid to leave it as well.

That last advice is personnel "tick" of mine... .so others may have a different take.  But ultimately... ."covering" for BPD traits does nobody any good...

[hurthusband]

In order to have effective boundaries you need to be clear within yourself at which point in this process did it start to effect you.

For some it may be the use of bad language, to others thats not a big deal.

Is it yelling?

Painting black others may trigger a desire in you to defend them, you can learn to let that wash as part of the disorder.

Your actions were correct, the next step is to put yourself in the right head space were you are feeling the actions rather than just doing them. eg You are saying nothing because you dont feel the need to say anything rather than because you have learned its best not to. This is were you are truly learning to separate the person from the disorder. It is hard.

You did right in still leaving as you were taking control of looking after your emotions, rather than following her push/pull swing. If you had stayed she would have still felt validating in dumping on you knoiwing she can stop you leaving. You would have still felt dominated.

what do you do if they are just lying in bed and moaning and groaning over nothign that happened differently and are basically wanting you to do something but you cannot do anything and your exhausted from dealing with it all

im just tired of giving everything and just not enough.  i know it will never be enough but just the constant unhappiness of hatred and ingratitude is wearing me down and the kids are tired too.

[hurthusband]

So i get a call and she keeps claiming that everyone is happy but her. I made mistake of saying, are you sure everyone else is happy that you think is happy? of course that invalidated her which she said "i have a right to feel how i feel" which i apologized for saying what I did and that she does have a right

She then said I am trying and working hard but I am not working right... like im playing basketball and she is playing tennis and she does not feel I care or am putting the effort in and she has the right to feel that way...

I know she has the right to feel a certain way, but what about how I feel?  How do i communicate that?  I am worn out.  How can we both feel miserable and she feel its alot of my fault (i agree its some my fault, I am not perfect and I recognize some mistakes I make) but as same time, I don ot feel it is the degree to which she says and feel absolutely terrified.

She is crying and screaming at me on the phone and I am at work.  She says I shouldnt be at work... This is not simply feeling one way and thats okay...

This is one of us is completely (or both) insane and our feeling are feeling of things that are not real.  Okay, so its not reality... we cannot help how we feel, but if it is not reality, how to we repair things?

How do i know how much is actually me? 

I do not understand... last night we went with her friend out... we did what she wanted... this morning nothing changed but its Saturday.  She hates I work saturday, but she has to work today...

I am so confused and scared.  I finally texted her therapist on this...

It was back to a bday present.  Originally she bought a $2300 laptop she did not need that much fo a laptop but we got it for her even though we are broke.  She said she needed for work and it could be her present too for her bday.  then beginning of october she ordered a handbag for what she said was her bday... okay... then it arrived this past weekend and was fake... so she was upset... i had planned on getting her something still just not major.  i offered to get her the real handbag... she said no and that he was sending another... i spent 2 days looking for a new present and got her a dress... she hated it.

she then ordered another handbag and made me return the dress.  then was upset i wasnt doing anything... the handbag came today and was wrong again... the new one

now upset saying i dont know her or care and just got something last minute on sale...

every weekend is this... her car is dying now... i jumped it the other day... I am at work now and she refuses to handle it.  its only 3 years old so i doubt its the alternator.  she has a breathalizer on her car from dwi so i cannot take it to get fixed and she drives my car... and she will not handle it...

is it my fault? do i leave work?  what do i do?

I feel horrible.  I sit with a gun to my head sometimes cause i want the courage to pull the trigger... i dont have it.  its selfish of me.  she says she is moving out but cannot afford anything...

one of us is going to die... if i die, she might be miserable still but she can take life insurance and live for a bit off that.  if she dies, the kids lose their mother... guilt consumes me... and she wont do it anyways.  I am just a step father.    she does not believe I hurt this much

[Grey Kitty]

hurthusband,

If you try to solve her problems, you won't solve yours. She can manufacture problems faster than they can be solved.

My life doesn't seem like a loud and crazy trainwreck right now... .but it isn't working well for me either. Because I've been doing exactly that--working on things for my wife instead of myself.

[hurthusband]

hurthusband,

If you try to solve her problems, you won't solve yours. She can manufacture problems faster than they can be solved.

My life doesn't seem like a loud and crazy trainwreck right now... .but it isn't working well for me either. Because I've been doing exactly that--working on things for my wife instead of myself.

its hard... her therapist tells her she is doing better... and she is in many ways, CEPT WITH us... i just dont know

[Grey Kitty]

I read somebody's comment that the advice they give is as much to confirm/cement things for themselves as it is to help others on these boards. I believe it. Right now I'm clutching a thread of myself and hanging on over the abyss as if my entire existence depends on it.

I hope that this doesn't make my advice to you too harsh or blunt. I will back off if you ask me to.

hurthusband,

If you try to solve her problems, you won't solve yours. She can manufacture problems faster than they can be solved.

My life doesn't seem like a loud and crazy trainwreck right now... .but it isn't working well for me either. Because I've been doing exactly that--working on things for my wife instead of myself.

its hard... her therapist tells her she is doing better... and she is in many ways, CEPT WITH us... i just dont know

You don't have to know. You don't have to figure it out. That is her job, not yours.

Take care of yourself. That is job #1. Take care of the kids with what strength you have leftover.

Let her solve and create problems for herself without your "help".

[waverider]

The desire to fix or rescue her is still too strong, and her neediness will continue to lean on it until you are exhausted with nothing left to give. Then you dont even have the strength to resist the neediness, despair sets in.

So i get a call and she keeps claiming that everyone is happy but her. I made mistake of saying, are you sure everyone else is happy that you think is happy? of course that invalidated her which she said "i have a right to feel how i feel" which i apologized for saying what I did and that she does have a right

Not everyone is as happy on the inside as they portray on the outside, she should understand this.

She then said I am trying and working hard but I am not working right... like im playing basketball and she is playing tennis and she does not feel I care or am putting the effort in and she has the right to feel that way...

You are doing your best and that is more than many would. No further justification required

I know she has the right to feel a certain way, but what about how I feel?  How do i communicate that?  I am worn out.  How can we both feel miserable and she feel its alot of my fault (i agree its some my fault, I am not perfect and I recognize some mistakes I make) but as same time, I don ot feel it is the degree to which she says and feel absolutely terrified.

You dont need to commuicate that, she can't take it in. she feels like it is your fault as that is the disorder talking, dont try to convince her otherwise. Simply dont buy into it.

She is crying and screaming at me on the phone and I am at work.  She says I shouldnt be at work... This is not simply feeling one way and thats okay...

Too bad, that is the way it is, you have to work, and you cant spend worktime on the phone reassuring her. Boundary time you can talk when you get home. The issue of the moment wiill probably have passed by the time you get home. You are preventing self soothing by engaging, and in effect feeding neediness.

This is one of us is completely (or both) insane and our feeling are feeling of things that are not real.  Okay, so its not reality... we cannot help how we feel, but if it is not reality, how to we repair things?

You dont have to repair things, simply dont do your part in making them worse.

How do i know how much is actually me?

By focusing more on you and less on her.

It was back to a bday present.  Originally she bought a $2300 laptop she did not need that much fo a laptop but we got it for her even though we are broke.  She said she needed for work and it could be her present too for her bday.  then beginning of october she ordered a handbag for what she said was her bday... okay... then it arrived this past weekend and was fake... so she was upset... i had planned on getting her something still just not major.  i offered to get her the real handbag... she said no and that he was sending another... i spent 2 days looking for a new present and got her a dress... she hated itshe then ordered another handbag and made me return the dress.  then was upset i wasnt doing anything... the handbag came today and was wrong again... the new one

now upset saying i dont know her or care and just got something last minute on sale... .

Futile attempts at fulfilling neediness

every weekend is this... her car is dying now... i jumped it the other day... I am at work now and she refuses to handle it.  its only 3 years old so i doubt its the alternator.  she has a breathalizer on her car from dwi so i cannot take it to get fixed and she drives my car... and she will not handle it...

is it my fault? do i leave work?  what do i do?

let her deal with it, even if it means calling a mobile mechanic, or catch public transport. Thats her choice.

I feel horrible.  I sit with a gun to my head sometimes cause i want the courage to pull the trigger... i dont have it.  its selfish of me.  she says she is moving out but cannot afford anything...

one of us is going to die... if i die, she might be miserable still but she can take life insurance and live for a bit off that.  if she dies, the kids lose their mother... guilt consumes me... and she wont do it anyways.  I am just a step father.    she does not believe I hurt this much

The only thing that needs to end is you need to keep her problems out of your head and spend more time on your thoughts.

Maybe you need to practice shrugging, even if bedlam happens around you as a result, as long as its outside your head. At the moment you have your mind wide open and inviting Bedlam in for a party in your brain

[hurthusband]

grey kitty... thats fine... bluntness stings sometimes, but it gives insight still that I belive is always good.  Bluntness does not mean uncaring... I suppose to a BP it would though!

Waverider... thanks for words.  That breakdown is good information to help confirm what I think is right and give me some fortitude

of course, this past week I told my mother that my wife does not like hearing anything about God.  My mother is very much into religion.  I was telling my mother that my wife was having a hard time cause she found out her mother is possibly going into hospice in the next 2 weeks and her father is getting triple bypass with a valve replacement this tuesday.  My mother texts here she is so sorry and she wants to be there and that "God has a plan".  My wife was livid rest of day.  She wants to have NO contact at all with my mother ever again.  She wants to know why my mother would say something about God.  I wish my mother had not, but i seriously doubt she did it to take a dig at my wife.  Especially in this situation.

My wife basically wants me to quit my job over it cause it is my mother's business.  She says my mother has too much control over our life... and she does not trust nor like my mother.

The odd part is... we see my mother about 3 times a year at holidays outside of work.  I work 6 days a week there, and probably do not get paid quite what I am worth, BUT... she lets me run my auto industry consulting firm out of the place and allows me to work on MY stuff while i am on her clock.  In addition, I can come and go for most part as needed, and she has put up with my wife making calls and basically me allowing my wife to incapacitate me at work...

I do not think that is very controlling of my mother.  My mother I feel does not value my family as much as she should, but at same time, she does not understand my wife at all and is fearful of her.  Not so much scared of her like I am, but knows that what she does to affect my wife can cause me grief.  As a result, she actually bites her tongue.  She still does things I do not agree with

I just do not know

[hurthusband]

and i just got a call from school saying my kid is stealing things...

no clue how to handle all of this.  I cannot afford more therapy... but i have to find a way...   private school?

sorry i do not believe that necessarily helps.  I went to private school.  Wife thinks it will... .

ultimately, her and i both know... these kids would have been better being raised by others and not attached to us.  Our relationship has damaged them

[Grey Kitty]

hurthusband,

Listen to your wife. Validate that you hear what she is saying. Well, except when she is abusive. Step out then.

And if it is a decision that is yours to make, tell her that you will make your own decision.

HINT: Your career is yours. You have no valid obligation to do what she says there.

HINT2: Your relationship with your mother is  yours also. You have no obligation to do what your wife says with your family.

HINT3: If you wife says somebody is being controlling, projection is more likely than accuracy.

If you let your wife's mental illness drive your career, she will drive it off a cliff.

As for your kid stealing things. Sucks. And your wife has a valid reason to have an equal say to yours on what to do... .from both a legal and ethical point of view.

That doesn't make her right, though.

If you don't have the money to pay for private school, then don't do it.

My first suggestion is see what resources the school has to help you deal with it.

[waverider]

kids stealing stuff is not the end of the world. It happens. Talk to your son, dont make him feel worthless as a result, or that can make it worse. It is probably just a phase for whatever reason he is going though.

I am sure your mum can avoid bring religion up around your wife. That is reasonable. To someone who is not religious it can seem condescending. pwBPD simply amplify these feelings. Your wife is hearing that someone she doesn't believe in has control over her life. Almost guarantees a reaction. I dont like hearing it but am balanced enough to know its just a harmless turn of phrase.

If you work with your mum she does has a great deal of influence over you and, hence your life. We are influenced by those we deal with on a daily basis whether we like it or not. Even if it is only perception from your wives point of view. You will subconsciously reject this as has may pluses in convenience for you.

Not saying you shouldn't work for your mother, simply that it will create a drama triangle. You will have to learn to have clear cut boundaries and just accept it will cause issues. They will throw muck at each other, just dont get stuck playing negotiator.

[hurthusband]

Yea... certainly has some influence...

the hard part is that my wife wants to know exactly what I will be making 5 years from now and what our lives will be like 5 years from now...

I just have no real clue.  I mean I make 6 figures... so I am not a bad job.  10 years ago I was making half that, and i was just about able to cover bills... of course, I did not predict nor could have in past 10 years would consist of suicide attempts, dui, $2k a month in therapy for her, or complete remodels of a house we did not even own. 

Its hard cause its always what others have, and never what she does have.  So and so is younger than us and has a nicer house... Well, yes, but their parents bought them the house.  Well why dont your parents help us?  well i thought you wanted them to be less in our lives

so and so just took a great vacation.  well yes, but once every couple of months you are wanting to spend $800 to stay a night at a hotel... that drains the vacation fund.

i dont care about her... i do not know where to start on that one.  my life is so entangled...

its just not rational thinking... so you validate but she still feels it and its still a mess

i dread my mother and wife in same room.  both do not give ground and my mother both are reactionary, but my wife is ultra sensitive so she gets insulted over nothing, fires off, then its on.  Plus just the abusive past and everything has things already tense

[Grey Kitty]

the hard part is that my wife wants to know exactly what I will be making 5 years from now and what our lives will be like 5 years from now.

If she wanted to grow wings and fly to the moon, she would probably blame you for that too. And you can do nothing to make this possible.

You cannot say what your life will be in five years. Not you will not. You cannot. You could say "It will be like X, Y, Z, A, B, C." You would know that you are guessing and lying if you did.

Hmmm... .This is a good question for you: What do you WANT your life to be like in five years?

If you can, ignore constraints like money, relationships, physics, etc

[waverider]

She wants you to mirror her wants and needs, and gets frustrated when you dont. Its a kind of projection

You dont need to justify why they are not your needs.

Material needs to fulfill a deep sense of emptiness will just get swallowed up in that big black hole of neediness.

Dont try arguing with gravity, it just is. You have to pull away just to stay in orbit

[hurthusband]

yea... i just want peace and stability really at this point

[hurthusband]

ok so this week has been pretty solid considering her mother has been in hospital for surgery that went bad and they trying again today and her father had triple bypass with valve replacement... .

but... here comes the weekend.  Every weekend is a nightmare now.  I literally feel sick and while she wants to die because of her own misery on weekends, I want to die because of the misery she puts me through...

Well here we are... Friday... just got the first salvo... text saying she cannot handle all of this anymore.  no trigger that i am aware of on it.  I am suddenly gripped with fear... i offered to talk to her.  I am starting to have my head swim.  I feel queezy, and paralyzed with fear.  She said she cannot talk to me cause talking to me is like beating her head against a wall.  she obviously is projecting all her anger onto me and my fault for all of this.

I told her i love her and she has been great this week.  I want to work with her, and I am trying to be better.  To keep my problems to myself through this difficult time for her and help her, but i cannot handle another weekend like the past few.  I would rather die.  If she feels this is me and this will happen i will stay in my car this weekend.  I then followed that I am thankful for her hard work and her kindness this week and i love her...

she said she is leaving and i can stay... my hands are shaking... i feel light headed.  my vision is shaking...   I feel like im leaving my own body.  I just want all thought and everything to stop.  I dont to exist... I just want to go and everyone to be happy which wont happen I know.  There is no help out there... I want help though. 

[Grey Kitty]

Oh man... .

Words fail me.

If she does go away, (if just for the weekend) you may find a little peace.

Or at least a safe place to curl up in a little ball and wait for these feelings to pass.

Find as much space as you can, and take the best care of yourself that you can!

 GK

[waverider]

Have you ever considered physical separation?

Since being here you have become increasingly overwhelmed. You may have to pull that safety fuse, as you are not going to protect yourself with subtle tweaking.

You need some substantial respite from all of this. To come home without worrying about what is waiting, and to be able to choose when to engage and when not. This is not going to happen whilst you are under the same roof.

You can't help anyone else if you are struggling to stay afloat yourself.

[formflier]

You need some substantial respite from all of this. 

You can't help anyone else if you are struggling to stay afloat yourself.

I agree with this bigtime!

[hurthusband]

well... last night my sister in law went to the hospital to check on her father who was doing much better and moved to a regular room and her mother who had a routine simple 1 hour procedure.  when she got there, she discovered her mother was not in her room.  After a search, she found out her mother was in the ICU and the procedure went horribly wrong.  Her mother is on a babys airtube... they cant explain what went wrong


... just got off phone with wife.  I keep asking about coming down and helping her but she says no.  I do not know what to do.  Just 30 minutes ago she told me to move out.  So does going down there make it worse?

She just got told that her mother has a mass behind her throat and she can never breath again without a air tube or or a trachiatomy.  She can also never eat again.  They also apparantly lost her DNR...

a. How the ___ does nobody get contacted about a woman being moved from routine procedure to ICU?

b. How the ___ do they go in to do a supposedly routine procedure on her throat and not know about a mass there?  They know she has thyroid and lung cancer. They went into her throat just 2 months ago to remove some cancer.  How the ___ does this happen?  All they did was make things worse and now they say they have to keep finding out what happened?

So my wifes mother is going to die.  Her father is in the hospital still... she just started a new job and they fired her helper on top of her only coworker on her job having to leave for pregnancy early.  All this stress is unfair to her and hurts me to see her go through this.  I am picking up slack and doing everything, but selfishly i know that this means all her pain is going to be thrown at me.  If I am ready to kill myself from the stress she throws at me and abuse from her job, what is going to happen when her mother dies?

How can i leave and run right now when her mother is dying and she is going through this?

What do I do here?

What is fair?

I certainly cant kill myself now with her already having to deal with this, but i cant handle the abuse neither that is coming cause I cant handle the now.  She is screwed...

Any advice on how to handle this?  I mean its balancing being a husband and a caring person with taking care of myself

[formflier]

 

Do you have an individual counselor you can talk these things through?   If not I think you should seek this out ASAP.

You obviously want to help you wife... .this is good... .please realize that you need help... .to be able to help her.

This is normal... .I needed this... .many on this board have needed this.

Hang in there!     

[Grey Kitty]

Geez, this is tough. No getting around that, only through it. 

My advice: Take care of yourself. If you fall apart (which you sound dangerously close to doing!) you can't help anybody else, your wife, kids, etc.

Believe that letting your wife abuse you is not supporting her.

It may be her favorite coping mechanism. She certainly has more to cope with than usual.

You can step out from it any time you need to.

[waverider]

If your wife flips out over this, she may place the "system' in the role of persecutor rather than you. Do not depress yourself prematurely worrying about what might happen. Rather than what is happening.

Same rules about taking abuse applies whatever is happening, as it is an unhealthy coping behavior and is not healing for either of you.if she wants your support rather than your resentment, then she still has to obtain it the appropriate way.

Who is informing you about what is actually happening in regards to the medical situation?

[hurthusband]

If your wife flips out over this, she may place the "system' in the role of persecutor rather than you. Do not depress yourself prematurely worrying about what might happen. Rather than what is happening.

Same rules about taking abuse applies whatever is happening, as it is an unhealthy coping behavior and is not healing for either of you.if she wants your support rather than your resentment, then she still has to obtain it the appropriate way.

Who is informing you about what is actually happening in regards to the medical situation?

right now my wife's sister is completely shell shocked and cant do anything while her father just had bypass and is shocked.  My wife is having to handle everything.  We still as of yet have not had ONE single of her 6 doctors check in. 

They told us Saturday they had no choice and nothing could be done.  They said they advised pulling breathing tube and she would probably die within 15 minutes.  Well we removed it and after 3 hours nothing.  In fact she started improving and seemed fine yesterday.  We are told any minute her windpipe would instantly close and kill her... So it is a mess.  They all want her to go home but if she collapsing violently choking to death while where she is at it will slowly add morphine as she loses oxygen and will die peacefully...

wife new job she is having to miss over this and they now have nobody to handle things in her department cause other person had early complications with pregnancy... its just a mess.  She is doing great with it considering.  Even though her sister accused her of trying to kill their mother...

its all sick and messed up...

[hurthusband]

ok... well crazy few days...

Saturday we are told she is going to die and pull the tube which we do.  She actually gets better.  My wife is handling everything cause my sister in law is inept and her husband just had triple bypass.  My wife is scared for her job from dealing with all of this

Saturday she told me to come up with a budget in a violent outburst at me in middle of the night which I checked into and had been eating at me for days because its just not sustainable.  55% of our income is taxes and medical.  That does not include mortgage, food, transportation, or anything else.  therapy alone is more than mortgage!  Nevermind we have another 12% of income giong to MINIMUM credit card payments because over the past 2 years she has wracked up mega debt.  I say her because it is mostly her.  It is about $175 a month on just itunes and little stuff alone.  Nevermind the large purchase and trips.

she keeps pestering me on what is on my mind and i explain she has too much on her table and i will deal with it.  I refused to until she seemed calmer and explained the situation, but that we will figure something out.  It did not help that over the past month i have handled EVERYTHING with the house. I have entertained her work stuff and have not done a single thing that i wanted for myself.  Just obligations and the kids were ungrateful and the fighting had been constant.  I am just worn out, but I am sure she is worn out to so really not sure how to handle this all.

Anyways... .last night she explodes on me at 2 am.  Out of no where and dead sleep.  I am totally disoriented and start freaking out.  How we will not work and she has to give up everything for me... on and on.  How dare I bring that up with all she has on her plate... She demands to be out of our miserable house within a year. 

a. 6 months ago we had half the debt we had now and in order to get a home on par with what she wants it HAD to be lowered by 66%.  Now my cards are almost maxed... No way I am getting a loan

b. our house is a wreck from half started remodels of her.  No way it will sell in current condition, but we have no money to fix it

c. what about a down payment?  we been in our home for 5 years so not alot of room

she says she is moving out.  She is quitting therapy...

To make matters worse her mother is demanding to be released from hospital.  Nobody has sent her mother flowers yet.  Not her brothers, mother, work, friends, nobody.  So then my wife tells me to tell my mother to send her flowers today.  My mother has offered to take them all to thanksgiving this year and help out through this hard time despite the fact they that my parents and her parents have been in same room together about 5 times in 10 years... now I am supposed to tell my mother to send flowers?

It seems rude like a demand on somebody.  Am I right in that?

What do I do here?  I can honestly say, I want to be the one on a morphine drip in hospice at this point.  Its selfish but i sometimes feel i am literally leaving my body the stress is so high.  I do not want to discount my wife's stress and I  am trying to keep it bottled right now, but what about me? 

I feel sick.  I am so behind on work.  I am miserable all the time.  My family and life are falling apart.  I feel the only option at this point is pretty much bankruptcy and fleeing.  Honestly, the best option is my death accidental.  There is enough life insurance to fix house and  pay it off and let her and the kids get out of this mess.  She may get things ___ed up again, but at least all the ___ with me is clean.  I can die knowing I was a good man, and I will have peace.  I do not see any peace ahead.  with our without her

[Grey Kitty]

I agree--It isn't your job to tell somebody else (your mother) to get her mother flowers.

You can't handle fighting with her. Step out of the fights. Do you have any friends or family members who would offer you a couch or guest bed to crash on without much notice?

It would do you wonders to just walk out the door, drive somewhere, turn off your phone, and sleep for one night.

Last thought... .if she wants to move out... .she can do it. I guarantee it would make your house a LOT more peaceful!

[hurthusband]

the hard part is that what she is going through right now would make even a non-BPD act like one.  So do I put up with more?  I would if she was normal through this. 

I cannot sleep.  I went into another room.  no sheets nor covers... freezing.  I kept waking up every few minutes thinking I heard her opening the door to come yell at me.  The only place I could stay is my mothers and that is a complete mess at the moment too.  I really have nowhere to stay.

She could stay at her fathers or sisters...   I just am terrified.  Even when things are normal and I am not having to be terrified of her, the crap i have let her get me into is piled up so high i cannot handle it neither... .

yea i could declare bankruptcy but then stuck in this nightmare of a house and still have to pay off crap.  I despise the idea of bankruptcy.  Its not right.  I knew what I was getting into but I did it because I was in the fog. 

I feel I have become an extreme example of what happens when you let a BPD go too far.  Everything has been sucked out of me.  I just do not want to go on.  She does not want to go on.  Each time she says that I feel like saying "yes, the best thing for both of us is to die.  We both want it", but I am just supportive and use SET... meanwhile I am dying inside and terrified it wont be enough to keep her from tearing off my head

[Grey Kitty]

Geez. Sounds like you would sleep better in your car, parked in a walmart parking lot. (With blankets or a sleeping bag!)

You might want to seriously consider that!

[hurthusband]

Geez. Sounds like you would sleep better in your car, parked in a walmart parking lot. (With blankets or a sleeping bag!)

You might want to seriously consider that!

done that too.  I have a Ranger XCab so not much room with alot of my work documents i store in there, but I did it.  The problem is like tonight its 29 degrees.  I gets kind of miserable.  That and then showering and shaving for work means going back too.  Its illegal here to sleep in car, but that does not worry me too much. 

Thats main problem though... 110 degree summers and 25 degree winters... only choice is to leave car running to handle it, but then you attract police who find you. 

[hurthusband]

ok so yesterday the hospital says they are going to transfer my wife's mother to another hospital in another city.  At same time, my wife's boss is taking away all her work and leaving her without a job.  She tries to contact her and finally my wife's boss starts screaming at her saying she has no idea the stress she (meaning the boss) is under and she is tired of all her employees drama be it people dying or anything else.  She went off yelling at my wife for 5 minutes about everything about everyone but my wife.  Cursing my wife calling her names... etc.  My wife actually started using SET on her and did not get upset.  I was shocked.

Her boss settled down and apologized and explained herself.  My wife expressed she just wanted to talk about her work and what she can and cannot do since her boss just assumed to take all her work.  The boss ended up taking away her jobs still and tossing her new stuff that my wife still did not want without asking, but it was better...

my wife for next 6 hours cried and was upset and felt just like i do after one of her BPD episodes. she couldnt grasp it.  she was hurting and wanted to be mad. she wanted to quit her job.  I kept trying to reassure her and her friend came over to help too.  After 6 hours of this... we all went to bed and friend went home.  Wife though when friend left went total meltdown abuse on me... i slept on couch

this morning bright and early my wife has been panicking and everything is a mess.  No clue what now

[formflier]

   

Hang tough!

[Grey Kitty]

 

Not my circus. Not my monkeys

[hurthusband]

   

Hang tough!

i helped my wife write an email to her boss (they were friends before she went to work for her) being kind and thoughtful but expressing how it hurt and that she is scared and nervous about working with her now.

Boss immediately called... screaming at her... telling her how she didnt sleep last night and how she has ruined her weekend cause of this.  This same boss that my wife gave up her cleaning for and we invested in equipment for the job with money we did not have... then the boss started talking to herself saying she ruined another employee and ruined her life...

my wife basically has no job now, mother dying, dad just out of hospital...

i have all of this to deal with... now i cant afford to keep us afloat alone... she will be angry with me...

I am the only thing left keeping her around but i am dying...

I want to die right now... and that will lead to more grief for her... for the kids... for everything.

I cant work... I cant work even...

This boss is obviously BPD also... she has killed us all

[waverider]

This boss is obviously BPD also... she has killed us all

This is projection

You have both gone into victim mode, painting the boss as persecutor. Your problems existed before and without the bosses input. The issue with the boss is the consequence of the drama not the cause. Jobs come and go, they are not the be all and end all of life.

The poor health issue with the parents happens to many many people, its harsh but it happens. The real issue is that the family unit is completely dysfunctional when coping with stress, compounding external factors with internal factors. Hence the overload situation you are in now.

Your wife will continue to meltdown if she is allowed to. If you continue to allow her to flame all over you, she will continue to do so. She will not heal and neither will you. Regardless of mitigating circumstances you need to put a stop to this.

Staying as you are, you are drowning by default.

If you are the only thing left she has, then why does she have the power? You have the power she has no options, you have. You are choosing not to exert them.

[hurthusband]

Went with my wife to her doctor last night.  I mean my wife actually used SET and other things on her boss which settled things down, but... .

Her doc says the boss is probably BPD or bipolar.  She is completely unstable and is probably not safe to work for.  It should be noted that this boss confided in my wife that she was put in the foster system by her parents at 13 years old and both her kids have severe mental issues.  One kid's doc told her that her child would not get better in therapy unless she also went into therapy.

My wife says this might be able to be dealt with if she was not the only person dealing with her mother and her hospitalization, but she is scared to leave the job because we have invested several thousand in equipment for this job and she gave up the last of her cleaning last week at the encouragement of this boss.  We are broke and need income... she scared it will be viewed as her ___ing up again, and she is paranoid she could have done something.  Basically she feels like I feel dealing with her, but with her boss.  She says she does recognize this

So this whole boss thing actually is not her fault for a change.  I witnessed it, and her doc says so.  Now that doesnt change the fact she is completely abusive and bad to me which is my fault for putting up with it.  Its just now the financial stress going up, and o well... i dont know what... .its just something new each day

and of course the weekly finding of how my "newly remodeled" house which we bought 5 years ago was done by a shady guy and is falling apart.  This week... all my air vents fell off as we discoved they were screwed into shims rather than into actual studs or boards

[momtara]

wow, you always have a perfect storm of s--t going on!   haven't checked back with you in a while, but it's tough.  you are a genius for hanging in there.  so here's a ((hug)) because not much else I can do to help.  glad you are at least keeping your head up.

[hurthusband]

well father in law went back into the hospital with blood clots and doctors cannot figure if the operation can work or kill my mother in law... thats a mess

my wife's boss still refuses to email her or call her or respond to anything and my wife let her know she was going into work today and it appears her boss is so intent on avoiding her that she is not going into the office today...

plus... my wife leased an art studio from her and it appears that she being the only person with a key has gone through her stuff and somebody added beer to her refrigerator along with some broken art now

this is all strange... wife been doing well with it all considering though

[hurthusband]

so wife goes into work today and her boss says hello to everyone but her and then locks herself in her office when my wife goes to talk to her.

she then goes to talk to another employee but refuses to talk to her and locks the door.

my wife needs something and knocks 3 times and she refuses to let her in until another employee lets her in

my wife goes to get something and while her back is turned the boss runs out the door to avoid her.  my wife finally calls her and she refuses to answer before calling back.  my wife says that they need to set down and talk which she has been saying for days.  the boss refuses saying anything concerning work you can say right here on the phone and i will not meet you in person. 

So my wife says that she that since she is unwilling to communicate with her and give her feedback or any courtesy basically, that she is going to have to resign.  my wife then thanks her for her kindness and for her time and opportunity.  the boss then lights into her again going off before my wife has to shut down the conversation...

This lady recruited my wife... had her quit her other job and give up everything on top of having her invest thousands into equipment to come work for her and then because flips on my wife... for once my wife does things right and this happens

this pretty much destroys all her therapy... this pretty much puts us in a financial mess.  this is on top of two parents in the hospital.  My wife's doc said this would all play out this way last week and said that this is all because her boss is embarrassed by her behavior and is going to find a way to blame my wife for her own guilt... ___ing BPDs...

of all the ___ing times... when my wife actually for once did what her therapist said and handled things well.  I mean my wife tried to to talk to her about 12 times over 5 days... .

in retrospect should have known... .i had heard she was just like my wife is to me to her bf.  I know both her kids have issues and their doc said they cant get better until she got better which is when she fired him.  I know that she was put in an ophanage at 13 years old.  Figures... ... my wife would find a BPD to work for...

I cannot rescue or do anything for my wife here.  That hurts... but you know what... .this affects me too and i am pissed off...

I cannot take anymore of this ___.

[momtara]

Too bad she resigned - what a weird boss and what weird behavior.  I am sorry you're in a financial hole again now.  I guess your wife can't get any kind of unemployment, right?

[Grey Kitty]

Financially unemployment would be better. Considering the circumstances of her resignation, she might still have a case for it. Dunno.

It should be worth millions to have your wife not working in THAT kind of environment!

Hang in there--your wife still has incredible stressful things to deal with.

The best thing you can do is validate her now, while she's dealing with tough stuff.

You can't make medical decisions for her parents. You can't deal with her job or job search.

Hang in there, and take care of yourself!

 GK

[hurthusband]

Financially unemployment would be better. Considering the circumstances of her resignation, she might still have a case for it. Dunno.

It should be worth millions to have your wife not working in THAT kind of environment!



 GK

This is an excellent point.  My wife really had a ton of respect and cared for the lady a ton.  Even when she was getting yelled at I heard my wife saying to the lady how she cared about her and just wanted some communication on what was going on.  I have a feeling some of it might have been that the lady had two graphic designers... my wife and another girl.  The other was about to leave on maternity and my wife while was getting the work done did have all this work with her parents.  I think the boss might have also panicked and hired another person, but then when my wife was doing the work she was a bit too cowardly and embarrassed to talk about the situation and basically tried to get her to quit.  My wife's doc said that after the argument the lady based on behavior and what it sounded like would most likely feel intense shame and start to rationalize it was not her fault and basically try to force my wife out which is exactly what happened so I suppose it lets me know the doc is competent.  Just a shame.  Doc also stated its probably my wife seeks out people like that because that is what she is familiar with.

The lady really did have alot of good qualities, but you could tell had alot of personal demons she wrestled with that tormented her much like my wife.  I could tell after about 3 weeks that she too had BPD, but she seemed more under control than my wife has been

That being said, my wife has actually done much better thorugh all of this.  She had made peace with her family and is really doing well to feel and absorb her feeling of pain and shame rather than venting them in anger which is good.  She also reached out to people she had in the past been angry with out of shame.  In a way this might be a major breakthrough for her.  I suppose it was a rock bottom

I mean all in all I am still now baffled on how to solve the real problems, but at least i do not have to deal with non rational problems for now

[Rapt Reader]

This thread has reached its post limit, and has been locked. This is a worthwhile topic, and you are free to start a new thread to continue the conversation. Thanks for understanding