Spinning herself out of control.

[Crumbling]

ps. - just read your new post.  Good to see she's talking/processing, in spite of the chemicals in her system.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[maxsterling]

The vibe I get from her is that this is some kind of "rock bottom" place for her right now.  Despite the near constant dysregulation, a few positives:

- she recognizes at least a little that she has a role in her own problems.  After-the-fact, though.  But recognizing she has things to work on is huge.

- she recognizes the issue of being dependent on meds.

- she recognizes the stress, and is (for the moment) doing what i have been telling her to do for months - back away from it. 

I'm okay this morning.  Actually feel less stress pulling things back together.  To me the stress is her constantly shifting mood and having to work with her through those moods.  If she says "you do it" I will do it and be fine.  So having to find a new caterer last minute is no big deal.  I can handle that.  It only becomes difficult when she puts her hand in there and tries to micromanage. 

[formflier]

 How long to the ceremony?

[Grey Kitty]

My feeling - I really want this.  I really want a nice peaceful ceremony surrounded by good friends and family.  But, in hindsight, had she told me 6 months ago that she did not want this, I would have easily given this up.  But 6 months ago, we both wanted this.  Or at least she claimed she did. 

And at this point, I still want this. 

Do you want lots of drama leading up to the day, followed by a (who knows if it is really peaceful) ceremony?

I'd happily take over all responsibilities if she was willing to completely back away from them all.  And that is where we seem to be today.

Do you expect this to last significantly past when her current meds wear off?

Nothing you've said thus far makes me expect it to last anywhere near up to the ceremony!

[Crumbling]

You made me think about my wedding when you mentioned getting her to let you do the planning.  That is how ours went, he stayed far away from all planning... .no, he had transportation and honeymoon arrangements to make, that was all and quite enough for him.  He mostly stood back and nodded and smiled a lot. 

Now I understand the emotional chaos he must have been in that day, and he likely keep his distance from the planning to keep himself from letting it drive him crazy.  Back then to me, it seemed supportive and reassuring for me that he trusted me to do the planning alone and make it work.  I had no idea about BPD back then, and either did he.

My feeling - I really want this.  I really want a nice peaceful ceremony surrounded by good friends and family. 

Good.  You know what is important to you.  What needs to occur on that day to make this happen?  Everything up to that day is just stepping stones.  Keep focused on the main goal, and that may help you to know what stuff to sweat, and what is just small stuff.  The small stuff is the 'shedable' stress, right. 

Pick your battles, like they say.

You'll figure it out: your smart, you know her well, your positive.

 ,

c.

[maxsterling]

Well, the update here -

- she has still mostly stepped out of the wedding planning.  She still obsesses over it, and has made a few comments that trend toward attempts at micromanaging me, but so far she has removed herself from most of the tasks that have caused her stress.

- she admits that her personality and communication skills are what is causing vendors to not want to work with her.  She has a slightly different reality, though, thinking that these vendors are abandoning her, and I see it as the other way around.  She paints them black, dumps her demands on them, and then they back out.  She said she is going to work with her AA sponsor on this. 

- She admits her dad is mostly right in that she makes poor decisions and ruins things.  Still calls him a jerk, though.

- She now wants me to handle all communication with vendors for fear she will ruin something else.

So, back to this self-awareness stage.

[Grey Kitty]

Hmmm... .a subtle line here.

"I keep messing stuff up--please do it for me to save me from my own issues."

"I keep messing stuff up--I'm going to do the hard work to stop myself from doing it again."

If she just gets enough self-awareness to ask you to ENABLE her behavior, it won't be enough.

How can you support her in this, instead of enabling her in this? It isn't just wedding venders--She does it in all her relationships, friends, bosses, etc. as well.

[formflier]

 

How long to P appointment?

How long until wedding ceremony?

Is there a conflict here? 

Just trying to look ahead a bit... .

[maxsterling]

GK-  you second statement is closer to what she is saying:  "I obviously have an issue.  You handle it until I can work on myself so that I can understand what I am doing wrong and change my behavior."  this is encouraging.  Yet, she's said stuff like this before, and sometimes doesn't follow through on getting help.  This feels different, though, because she actually has taken more steps this time in actually working with her AA sponsor.

P is next week.  Wedding is a month away. 

[formflier]

Max,

It "seems" different from where I am sitting too.

Does she talk about the P appointment coming up?  Are you going to the P appointment? 

[maxsterling]

Update here.  A week passed and no refund.  Contract says two weeks.  W is ready to call lawyer, make threats, etc.  My feeling is different - give her a week, a strong reminder of the contract terms in a short email, then wait the two weeks, and then take further action.

I said I would draft email.  I did.  W wanted to look it over, thought I was not being "aggressive" (aka "mean" enough.  So she added a bunch of threats to go to better business bureau, etc.  So, she sent it out last night.  I knew what would happen, that the coordinator would respond with an explanation and send W spinning again.  And guess what?  That's exactly what happened because that is what most people do when you threaten them.  Coordinator wrote back, said she was hurt, not understanding why W is so angry, got defensive, said she asked for our address and we didn't respond (i'm guessing coordinator asked W for address by text message and W had her blocked).  So, wife wakes up, first thing reads the email, feels anger, feels the need to immediately respond.  I tell her all we need to respond is our address, say thank you for her prompt attention, and leave it at that.  W is convinced coordinator will write bad check, etc.  So, she decides to send ANOTHER long winded email full of anger and threats and accusations.  I got up and took a shower, asked if she wanted to shower with me in an attempt to get her mind off things and not respond in anger.  She refused.  When I got out, she blamed me.  Blamed me for finding this woman in the first place, blamed me for telling her to respond, said we *have* to give her an explanation, etc.  I listened to her dysregulate for another 20 minutes, and went to work.

I know deep down part of her understands she is creating her own problems.  But that part is lost right now. 

[maxsterling]

BTW, maybe we should have another board about "dealing with clients or co-workers with BPD"   

I'm trying to not feel bad for this woman.  Sure, she was a bit unprofessional, but in no may malicious.  I feel bad that she got caught in the middle and painted black.  I know it is probably a bad idea and I need to just let it go, but I've got an urge to reach out to her privately and just let her know it had nothing to do with her, mainly because I know exactly how bad and confused she must feel now.

[maxsterling]

Well, she just called me in hysterics.  Total nervous breakdown type hysterics.  I'm trying to get her to completely let go of this wedding stuff for a few days (or permanently), but she can't.  The hotel reservations are screwed up.  I offered to call and fix, she didn't want me to claiming that I don't know how to do anything.  Eventually, I did call the hotel, and it is fixed.  Aggravation for sure, but nothing I can see to warrant this much stress.

I have a new caterer lined up, we meet tomorrow.  Again, stressful, but nothing that warrants a total breakdown. 

Coordinator says she will refund money ASAP.  I think this is the reason for the hysterics.  W had painted coordinator black, as an evil b__h intentionally trying to destroy her and steal our money.  Coordinator responds saying all is good, just don't know why the anger, I will send you a check ASAP.  Complete invalidation - W had labeled coordinator as evil, coordinator responds kindly, and W feels invalidated.

She went to an AA meeting.  Hopefully someone there reaches out to her today.  It's well beyond my control.

[formflier]

I thought wife was going to let you handle the details? 

So... maybe next time... .when she asks to see the email... .just say that you have handled it as agreed... .and drop it.

Thoughts?

[maxsterling]

FF- I tried a few times to do just that.  But her memory of telling me to handle the details and that she does not wish to be involved is poor.  We even discussed this issue in MC, where W complained that she has to do everything because I keep screwing up and doing it wrong.  MC challenge her on this,  and asked her if it was an issue of me screwing up or me not doing things the way she wants them to be done.  It was more of a rhetorical question, and W didn't have a response. 

My challenge to W the past few weeks has been to remind her that she told me to handle it.  Unfortunately, I cannot prove to her that I have done exactly that, because there are still loose ends.  So she will tell me she *has* to micromanage me, and I remind her that is her choice.  She can either let me do it, or not let me do it and do it herself. 

[maxsterling]

So she called me again, still in hysterics, on the way to another 12-step meeting.  This time, though, she was apologetic.  Saying she is out of control, feels like picking up drugs or alcohol, feels like the stress of this wedding is going to literally kill her.  She said she can't stop herself from blaming and yelling at me, she's aware that it is bad, but can't stop.  She completely admits she has a serious problem. 

Through the tears, we did briefly talk about the coordinator.  From what I could make out through the tears, she feels tremendous shame over this.  I think that is what really set her off today.  She had in her mind that the coordinator was the most evil woman in the world.  And now that she isn't acting that way, universes aren't jiving and she is falling apart.

I instructed her to take today off completely, do NOTHING involving the wedding.  Tomorrow, she has an all-day retreat.  I told her that will give her two complete days where she does NOTHING.  She insists on helping, I told her that she has already done a ton, and because of her hard work so far most everything is already done.   

Hopefully, she will listen and take the day off.

[MaroonLiquid]

It's good that your wife is that self aware.  Wish mine was.

[formflier]

  She can either let me do it, or not let me do it and do it herself. 

What are your choices?

When she wants to micromanage... .

[maxsterling]

My choices when she tries to micromanage - I see it as I either do it or not do it.  In other words, if she tries to micromanage, I can't stop her, but I can say I won't do xyz unless she lets me do it on my own.  I've tried that route, with some success, and she usually butts out at least for awhile.

This problem doesn't just affect me.  Her micromanaging is what is driving others away.  My family is shying away from helping.  Her family is shying away from helping.  And I think it is because her list of wants/needs exhausts them.  Ever have a volunteer job and the person in charge is demanding?  First thing you do is quit! 

So now the issue has expanded again.  We now have a Rabbi performing the ceremony.  He's a really laid back guy.  The Rabbi's wife is a singer.  W asked rabbi's wife to sing a song or two for our ceremony - and she agreed.  Last night, she stayed up late again, typing emails away on her phone.  She sent two emails to the Rabbi's wife with questions regarding her singing.  The Rabbi emails her back this morning saying maybe it would be best if she did not sing.  W now thinks she screwed everything up, and wants me to call to straighten it out. 

Now she is deciding against the other singer we had hired... .  You know, that would be fine with me, but the back and forth and changing decisions this late in the game is exhausting me.

[Crumbling]

Well, the update here -

- she has still mostly stepped out of the wedding planning.  She still obsesses over it, and has made a few comments that trend toward attempts at micromanaging me, but so far she has removed herself from most of the tasks that have caused her stress.

- she admits that her personality and communication skills are what is causing vendors to not want to work with her.  She has a slightly different reality, though, thinking that these vendors are abandoning her, and I see it as the other way around.  She paints them black, dumps her demands on them, and then they back out.  She said she is going to work with her AA sponsor on this. 

- She admits her dad is mostly right in that she makes poor decisions and ruins things.  Still calls him a jerk, though.

- She now wants me to handle all communication with vendors for fear she will ruin something else.

So, back to this self-awareness stage.

This quote is from just over a week ago, Max... .what has changed that has given her the power to decide on Rabbis and singers?  Why is she dealing with the small stuff again?   

What has to happen for her to get back to the self-awareness stage?

Sounds like you're on the loopiest roller coaster in town!

Hang in there, friend.  You have such patience.

c.

[Crumbling]

Ever have a volunteer job and the person in charge is demanding?  First thing you do is quit! 

I've also quit volunteer positions because I've been told I can help then given no power to do or decide anything, just listen to the other person talk, then watch them do the work.    Waste of time!

These are consequences brought on my her actions, family stepping away.  I wouldn't sugar coat the issue, but nor would I let her stew in self pity.  Lead her to learn from them, IMO.   

, c.

[Jessica84]

This is like Bridezilla on steroids! I hope the retreat helps her. Sounds like YOU could use a day at the spa too! 

I don't mean to make light of it. I know it's terribly stressful. It might help to keep in mind that many a bride get hysterical over a wedding, even nonBPD women. A BPD bride and a Bridezilla aren't so different. They want everything to be perfect. I've had some otherwise down-to-earth (nonBPD) friends go completely insane planning a wedding. Black&White thinking came into play. Wrong flowers? Wedding is OFF! No piano? EVERYTHING is RUINED!

Is is very hard to pull off the "perfect wedding" with so many moving parts. If it's any consolation, I'm sure wedding planners, caterers, florists are all pretty used to this... .

[Turkish]

This thread is locked due to being near its post limit. Please see the continuation here: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=272517.0