Gaslighting - anyone can share their experiences

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

I've taken the subject here of a pretty decent book out there on Gaslighting.  I was wondering if anyone can share their experiences with this phenomenon in relation to their BPD, and how they dealt with it (or weren't able to deal with it). More importantly, do you think it's effected the healing process post-BPD with just more toxic junk to have to sort through in your mind.

I know my BPD would gaslight me on a regular basis. At first I had no idea what was going on, but when I came to the conclusion she had a personality disorder and stumbled on Gaslighting I tried to learn as much as possible. I at least got to the point to where I could sense what she was doing and send it right back at her (not always).  It's a very draining and dangerous game they play when they are in that mode and just another reason why they are so toxic in my opinion.

[Raybo48]

I've taken the subject here of a pretty decent book out there on Gaslighting.  I was wondering if anyone can share their experiences with this phenomenon in relation to their BPD, and how they dealt with it (or weren't able to deal with it). More importantly, do you think it's effected the healing process post-BPD with just more toxic junk to have to sort through in your mind.

I know my BPD would gaslight me on a regular basis. At first I had no idea what was going on, but when I came to the conclusion she had a personality disorder and stumbled on Gaslighting I tried to learn as much as possible. I at least got to the point to where I could sense what she was doing and send it right back at her (not always).  It's a very draining and dangerous game they play when they are in that mode and just another reason why they are so toxic in my opinion.

[Deeno02]

I've taken the subject here of a pretty decent book out there on Gaslighting.  I was wondering if anyone can share their experiences with this phenomenon in relation to their BPD, and how they dealt with it (or weren't able to deal with it). More importantly, do you think it's effected the healing process post-BPD with just more toxic junk to have to sort through in your mind.

I know my BPD would gaslight me on a regular basis. At first I had no idea what was going on, but when I came to the conclusion she had a personality disorder and stumbled on Gaslighting I tried to learn as much as possible. I at least got to the point to where I could sense what she was doing and send it right back at her (not always).  It's a very draining and dangerous game they play when they are in that mode and just another reason why they are so toxic in my opinion.

I knew nothing of this at all when I got involved with my gf. Its only been since the end of the relationship that Ive put it together. Had numerous things happen. The constant threat of treat me special or lose me threat, yelled at for trying to help her serve her kids food, yelled at for trying to put a trash bag in the can, yelled at for taking trash out, all lead to me being devalued to where I thought I was the crazy one. I still feel like that even though Im in therapy and second guess myself all the time.

I remember one time I was to take her son to football practice and I ran into her neighbor who also had a son in football. She volunteered to take her son as well to give me a break. I accepted but I wanted to double check with gf to see if it was cool. I couldnt reach her, so I stuck to taking her son. a few hours later, I get a call from her saying that she had talked to her neighbor and that it seemed I was put out by taking her son to practice (which by the way, I had been doing for weeks already). I told her what had happened, it wasnt a big deal, I had it covered. Her response? One of you is lying. Hmm. Neighbor of 14 years vs boyfriend of 1 yr. I knew whom she thought was lying.

Always said to me how she thought I felt her and her 5 kids were pains in the asses and I had better things to do than be with her. I heard it so often, I guess I did start to believe it, especially as I was being cut out of her schedule I used to help with. I would ask all the time, please let me help, please. Response? I got it.

Told constantly I was incapable of love, emotionless, not lovable.

It has affected my healing. My self worth is ___, my thought process have been affected, I still second guess myself and Im so beat down, I dont say much anymore. History? Im a 26 year Navy veteran who served in Special Operations and numerous combat zones, and I have been reduced to ___ by this woman in a year and a half.

[Skip]

Always said to me how she thought I felt her and her 5 kids were pains in the asses and I had better things to do than be with her. I heard it so often, I guess I did start to believe it... .

Not sure this is gas lighting.  First, because gaslighting refers to a premeditated and symptomatic system of selling someone on a false reality using third parties and other (e.g. mechanical) proof sources - an intricate con.  Second, because the concept of gaslighting has is mostly urban legend / junk psychology. It's like the 3 second rule for food that drops on the floor.  Sounds good if you don't think about it.  

Do you think she knew this was false but was saying it to brain wash you, or is it that she believed that it was true?  Five kids are a lot of work no matter how much we love them or spin it. Did her parents treat her this way?

Told constantly I was incapable of love, emotionless, not lovable.

Horrible.  We read a lot about this on the Coping/Healing board - how these bad family dynamics are learned and passed down.

It's helps to see it for what it is.

[MrConfusedWithItAll]

Quite often I would press the door bell and she would not answer - and so I would assume the bell was switched off.  I would wait a few minutes and press the bell a few times.  Finally I would send a text saying I was heading home since she was not in.  She would then open the door.  She always said the doorbell was on and that I hadn't pressed it.  I just saw it as yet another one of her silly games.

[GoodThingsToCome]

Quite often I would press the door bell and she would not answer - and so I would assume the bell was switched off.  I would wait a few minutes and press the bell a few times.  Finally I would send a text saying I was heading home since she was not in.  She would then open the door.  She always said the doorbell was on and that I hadn't pressed it.  I just saw it as yet another one of her silly games.

LOL (sorry don't mean to be insensitive), but that is some crazy s**t. I'm at the point now where I just have to laugh at the crazy stuff that goes on with these people. My ex never played games such as that, but she drove me to the point of me starting to doubt my own reality and judgement.

If I didn't have such an amazing, supportive family, I don't know where the f**k I'd be right now... .because you need a stable support system to pull you from out of the s**t-storm and to normalize you to some extent. I just had to keep reminding myself that I knew the facts, and when I went through the facts in my mind, I knew her distortions made no sense at all. Having said all of that, it is an incredibly exhausting exercise... .you can't even argue (even calmly) with them as they actually don't believe in the real facts.

But whatever, that is in the past for me now... .I've had enough of craziness.

[Raybo48]

Told constantly I was incapable of love, emotionless, not lovable.

Deeno02:  I got told this for nearly our entire rs... .Almost daily so you are not alone.  She gaslighted me all over the place, but being told specifically what you just said in that one sentence caused my self worth to go to Sh** as well.   I hope you heal up well and march to your own tune again, you deserve it man!

[Recooperating]

Told constantly I was incapable of love, emotionless, not lovable.

Deeno02:  I got told this for nearly our entire rs... .Almost daily so you are not alone.  She gaslighted me all over the place, but being told specifically what you just said in that one sentence caused my self worth to go to Sh** as well.   I hope you heal up well and march to your own tune again, you deserve it man!

Yep same here... .You're cold and distant, you want me to die, you wouldnt morn my death, you dont care about me... .Bla bla bla. It use to hurt me to the core. F*cked up accusations... .

As far as gaslighting he was lord and master in turning and twisting things. Taking part of the truth spin it around and make his own version of it. Things I would have said one would be twisted around and he would make it to be something completely different. Very frustration. He never listened to understand, he listened to feed his abandonment fears. He could take a sentence like: "I'm really tired from work" in to: "Im tired of you" he would flip in a sec.! Then drain me some more trying to explain to him that what I had said had nothing to do with him.

And we would have yet another nice rage on out hands that could last for hours.

Personal favorite was the threaths... .If you dont answer your phone right now Ill leave you! Or If you do that I will kill myself! He actually pretended he had commited suicide over the phone. I called the police in the country he was in and they arrived at his door. He called me and got angry at me for calling the police cause it made him look bad. Obviously I didnt care for him at all! What the heck?

Come to think of it... .Man this past month of NC has been peacefull!

[GoodThingsToCome]

Twisting... .ahhh yes. I'll never forgot one story my BPD ex twisted to use against me... .

I had told her once how my ex-GF before her (who is a lovely woman and we had a long term stable relationship together) had come on holiday with my family and I to Italy, and at one point while we were talking around Rome in serious heat broke down crying because of exhaustion - but also due to the fact that her Mom had just been diagnosed with cancer.

So guess what my BPD ex did later on... .twisted the story around to later make out as if myself and my family were so horrible that we even made my ex-GF cry when she came on holiday with us... .What the heck,  ! When she did this I actually couldn't argue I was so dumb-founded. My BPD ex had problems with my family, probably because she had issues with her own family and jealousy issues because I was close with mine.

Wow, the memories of insanity. Glad I'm out.

[crookedeuphoria]

I have some jealousy issues. I know it and I work on it. I shared this with him (during idealization) in the event that if I ever did with him, I could tell him about it and we would talk about it rather than me getting those knots in my stomach.

One time during a fight, he told me he cheated on me four times (not true), he would get weird and squirrely about a woman he worked with and one time told me how hot he thought she was and how he flirts with her everyday, he would get googly eyed with my best friend and if I didn't say anything about it (and after awhile, believe me, I learned to not bring it up or give any indication that I had noticed), he would start a fight, saying "what? who'd I look at?"

So basically, I had this issue and he would do/say these things and I got to the point where I didn't know what was going on. Was I being irrational? Were these MY issues rearing their ugly heads? Did I imagine that?

[Skip]

Twisting... .ahhh yes. I'll never forgot one story my BPD ex twisted to use against me... .

Cognitive distortions are very much a part of BPD.

www.apsu.edu/sites/apsu.edu/files/counseling/COGNITIVE_0.pdf

I think the imortant thing her is that our ex's truly believed these things - they were not manipulations - they were thinking abnormalities.

I say this as it is a the root of "not taking it personally".  As personal as these comments were - and they were very personal - they were not about what we said or did.

[Deeno02]

Always said to me how she thought I felt her and her 5 kids were pains in the asses and I had better things to do than be with her. I heard it so often, I guess I did start to believe it... .

It's not sure gas lighting.  First, because gaslighting refers to a premeditated and symptomatic system of selling someone on a false reality using third parties and other (e.g. mechanical) proof sources - an intricate con.  Second, because the concept of gaslighting has is mostly urban legend / junk psychology. It's like the 3 second rule for food that drops on the floor.  Sounds good if you don't think about it.  

Do you think she knew this was false but was saying it to brain wash you, or is it that she believed that it was true?  Five kids are a lot of work no matter how much we love them or spin it. Did her parents treat her this way?

Told constantly I was incapable of love, emotionless, not lovable.

Horrible.  We read a lot about this on the Coping/Healing board - how these bad family dynamics are learned and passed down.

It's helps to see it for what it is.

I do think that she was Skip. I believe, now that Im out of the r/s, that she constantly said this to drive me away. I was so involved with those kids schedules, and then after the football incident with the toxic neighbor, I was cut out of the schedule unless as a last resort. Almost everyday she said that to me when I would ask, beg, to help her get kids from point A to point B. Eventually, it wore me out and I stopped asking, which lead to further discourse and splitting. I couldnt do anything right.

[Skip]

I believe, now that Im out of the r/s, that she constantly said this to drive me away. I was so involved with those kids schedules, and then after the football incident with the toxic neighbor, I was cut out of the schedule unless as a last resort. Almost everyday she said that to me when I would ask, beg, to help her get kids from point A to point B. Eventually, it wore me out and I stopped asking, which lead to further discourse and splitting. I couldnt do anything right.

Do you think she walked from the relationship because you "thought the kids were a pain in the ass"?

Or do you think she was letting go of the relationship and this was part of the phasing out/detaching/lettting go.

[Deeno02]

I believe, now that Im out of the r/s, that she constantly said this to drive me away. I was so involved with those kids schedules, and then after the football incident with the toxic neighbor, I was cut out of the schedule unless as a last resort. Almost everyday she said that to me when I would ask, beg, to help her get kids from point A to point B. Eventually, it wore me out and I stopped asking, which lead to further discourse and splitting. I couldnt do anything right.

Do you think she walked from the relationship because you "thought the kids were a pain in the ass"?

Or do you think she was letting go of the relationship and this was part of the phasing out/detaching/lettting go.

I never thought they were pains,but after the football incident, I was being pushed out, and I gave up trying to defend myself from the allegation. I think it was both. I couldnt persuade her that my feelings for the kids were honest, and this devalued me even further. Its funny, but when I tried to win her back in the gym and she was laying into me, her kids never came up, mine sure did amongst a bunch of other hurtful stuff, but not her kids...

[vortex of confusion]

Cognitive distortions are very much a part of BPD.

www.apsu.edu/sites/apsu.edu/files/counseling/COGNITIVE_0.pdf

I think the imortant thing her is that our ex's truly believed these things - they were not manipulations - they were thinking abnormalities.

I say this as it is a the root of "not taking it personally".  As personal as these comments were - and they were very personal - they were not about what we said or did.

For me, that makes it even more difficult to deal with. If he was deliberately being a jerk, it would be so easy to turn my back and not take it so personal. I could write it off as him being an a%%hole. I know mine does not do anything deliberately. He is a very thoughtless person.

He will say one thing one minute and then something else the next. It is that ability to change his mind or opinion that has me questioning my sanity and feel gaslit. One minute he is complaining that I don't help him by changing the cat boxes but then when I try to step up and do it, he blocks my way and gets mad. I don't know how many times he will negate something the girls and I say. If I hear something and he doesn't, he will try to say that it isn't there because he didn't hear it. He has done a number on our kids by telling them that they didn't see, hear, taste, etc. If he doesn't experience the same thing, then it didn't happen. There is no room for other people having a different experience than him.

[camuse]

Mine had a phrase:

"You're the kind of person who would... ." followed by something bizarre that I would never do.

Said it so often, I ended up wondering if I was indeed the sort of person who would do whatever crazy thing she had suggested that day (usually to do with cheating on her)

[blissful_camper]

During the r/s I felt I was in a horror film.  What I was seeing/experiencing was twisted, and reminded me of Hitchcock film noir.  I often felt my ex's actions were intentional.  I often felt he was intentionally trying to hurt me.  (His actions did hurt me very much)  But it wasn't about me.  He couldn't help himself.  He is in survival-mode 24/7.  He distorts, he is paranoid, he can't trust, he dissociates a lot.  That is the world he lives in.  Go there.  Imagine what it is like to live that way.  It's not pretty.  

The disorder isn't an excuse for his poor behavior.  But I can forgive him because it is the right thing to do.  I have compassion for him as I would have compassion for anyone who is suffering from any form of mental illness.  I would not want to be in his shoes.  I can do nothing to help him.  What I can do is say a prayer to keep him safe.  Let go, and let Gaia (or God, or the Universe, _______ fill in the blank)

Remember that it wasn't about you.  

[vortex of confusion]

Mine had a phrase:

"You're the kind of person who would... ." followed by something bizarre that I would never do.

Said it so often, I ended up wondering if I was indeed the sort of person who would do whatever crazy thing she had suggested that day (usually to do with cheating on her)

Mine never said this kind of stuff directly. It was usually passive aggressive stuff that made me feel like a friggin' monster. That is why I would try harder. I felt like his reactions to me were a result of the fact that I was being mean or unreasonable. The one thing that sticks out most is when we were pursuing alternative arrangements. One friend broke it off and he immediately started pushing me to go do some other guy as though I were some kind of slut. It was a real mind bender.

[Skip]

We have a article on fear, obligation, and guilt that explains that this is actually a transaction between two people with both playing a part. For the controller, the role is having dysfunctional psychological defenses and coping mechanisms.  For the controlled, the role is providing an enabling reaction to these dysfunctional reactions.

The transaction has four parts: the demand, the resistance, pressure and threats, and compliance.

• The Demand  This can be direct (e.g., "I don't want your mother coming here" or indirect ("Nothing’s wrong. I know you don’t have time to listen to my petty problems" by the controller.

• The Resistance  Objection to the demand at some level by the controlled.

• Pressure and Threats  Pressure and threats can be subtle or quite direct (see "Common Control Scenarios", below) by the controller.

• Compliance   "Giving in" by the controlled to the pressure and threats and doing something uncomfortable, undesirable, burdensome, or self-sacrificing.

https://bpdfamily.com/content/emotional-blackmail-fear-obligation-and-guilt-fog

One point in this is that we rewarded it - we, unintentionally, encouraged it.  Look at the posts above and how we responded.

[vortex of confusion]

We have a article on fear, obligation, and guilt that explains that this is actually a transaction between two people with both playing a part. For the controller, the role is having dysfunctional psychological defenses and coping mechanisms.  For the controlled, the role is providing an enabling reaction to these dysfunctional reactions.

Thanks for this information Skip!

It raises several questions and concerns for me.

First, as I read through this, I had to fight the feelings of "Wow, I guess it was all my fault."

Second, when I pushed that thought aside and really thought and reflected on it, I realized that I have been guilty of those same things at different times. I would try to be direct and say, "I need [fill in the blank]". When those requests were ignored repeatedly, I had to find some other way to get my needs met. In some cases, that involved me doing some of the same things that made me so mad at my spouse. How many of us can honestly say that we never ever sank down to their level? How many of us can claim to be perfectly innocent victims in all of this?

Aren't all of the attempts for some people to continually contact the ex a form of gaslighting? The person broke up with you or you broke up with them. Now, you want to get back with them or contact them just to talk or get closure. I understand that but when we push them to communicate with us, that seems like a form of gaslighting because it is us denying that they are done with us for whatever reason. If you text somebody and they don't respond, that is nonverbal communication by them that they are unavailable for whatever reason.

Sorry to go off on a tangent. I have just been feeling like blaming everything on BPD and continuing to contact people and write them letters after they have said they are done is being disrespectful of other people's boundaries. A person with BPD has boundaries too. If they try to exert them, it is blamed on BPD. As nons are some of us creating our own hells with our inability to be more balanced?

[Skip]

First, as I read through this, I had to fight the feelings of "Wow, I guess it was all my fault."

Second, when I pushed that thought aside and really thought and reflected on it, I realized that I have been guilty of those same things

Good processing.  And yes, transactional means that it takes two to play ping pong.  That each party is returning the others salvo.  Even if it originates from their cognitive distortion - if we are believing it and respoding to making it right, we are either validating the distortion or giving them what they want.

It takes a great deal of emotional intelligence to see this.  Most of us missed it.

Aren't all of the attempts for some people to continually contact the ex a form of gaslighting?

I don't think anyone knows what this term means - I've seen it used to describe 20 unrelated things with the only common denominator being "hurtful things bad people do to me" - it comes from a 1944 movie which is about a carefully planned diabolical plot like a sting or a con - not a BPD modis operandi. It's a victims term.

With respect to contacting the exes - our surveys show high rates of recycling in these relationships before they end - and the down cycles get more severe in time - so its often not clear that it is really over.

[SickofMe]

have just been feeling like blaming everything on BPD and continuing to contact people and write them letters after they have said they are done is being disrespectful of other people's boundaries. A person with BPD has boundaries too. If they try to exert them, it is blamed on BPD. As nons are some of us creating our own hells with our inability to be more balanced?

I've thought about this, too.  When they won't speak to us we call it Silent Treatment but when we won't speak to them it's NC?  That makes it hard for me to tell heads from tails, also.

Some of my friends got REALLY judgy and annoyed with me bc I responded to my ex's last contact.  Well, that is who I am.  I was careful to keep it all kind and all in the "me" court and they sorta derisively told me I was "giving away my power."  Well, again, that's me.  I don't *care* if he knows I was/am hurt, my motivation isn't to guilt him or to win him back, I just wanted to try to have some sort of adult and genuine conversation at the end of the r/s.

To me, not responding to him at all would have been acting just like he's acted... .yuck.  It's different if someone is stalking or harassing you after you've asked them to stop,  but I want to behave better than he does.  I don't have a wish to hurt anyone, no matter how horribly they've behaved.  I mean, I have moments of nasty, vindictive thoughts, but I don't act on them.

[Skip]

Some of my friends got REALLY judgy and annoyed with me bc I responded to my ex's last contact.  Well, that is who I am.  I was careful to keep it all kind and all in the "me" court and they sorta derisively told me I was "giving away my power."  Well, again, that's me.  I don't *care* if he knows I was/am hurt, my motivation isn't to guilt him or to win him back, I just wanted to try to have some sort of adult and genuine conversation at the end of the r/s.

Take the emotionally mature high ground.

If there is one  thing we can take away from this experiences let it be a higher level of emotional maturity.

[vortex of confusion]

I've thought about this, too.  When they won't speak to us we call it Silent Treatment but when we won't speak to them it's NC?  That makes it hard for me to tell heads from tails, also.

It is difficult to make sense of it all. I see a lot of double standards and have been guilty of having double standards as well. What you say about NC vs. the silent treatment really highlights a question that has been on my mind quite a bit. Maybe they are trying to be NC because they can't handle whatever it is that we are trying to say. I know that when my husband has been in a decent place we have talked about how there are times when it feels like we are trying to speak two different languages.

Some of my friends got REALLY judgy and annoyed with me bc I responded to my ex's last contact.  Well, that is who I am.  I was careful to keep it all kind and all in the "me" court and they sorta derisively told me I was "giving away my power."  Well, again, that's me.  I don't *care* if he knows I was/am hurt, my motivation isn't to guilt him or to win him back, I just wanted to try to have some sort of adult and genuine conversation at the end of the r/s.

I hate the emphasis on power. I don't want power and I don't like power. The only person I have ever wanted to control is myself. When other people are coming from a place where they see everything in terms of power and control, it makes it very difficult. Really, I think that is the source of a lot of conflict between my husband and I. He feels like he has no control over anyone or anything so he does subtle things to feel like he has some kind of control or power. To keep it on the topic of gaslighting, his intentions were not to gaslight but to have his twisted version of reality validated. Because they are coming from a place where they feel powerless, getting other people to see their version of reality gives them some kind of sense of power or identity. (Maybe that is all a bunch of psychobabble that makes no sense but it sounds good.   )

I have also wondered if the need for closure is really a final attempt to have our reality validated? I am thinking about how I have felt when there wasn't any clear closure.

To me, not responding to him at all would have been acting just like he's acted... .yuck.  It's different if someone is stalking or harassing you after you've asked them to stop,  but I want to behave better than he does.  I don't have a wish to hurt anyone, no matter how horribly they've behaved.  I mean, I have moments of nasty, vindictive thoughts, but I don't act on them.

Sure, I want to behave better as well but aren't there times when responding would escalate the situation? I guess the key is to know when to be quiet and when to respond without getting into the power struggle or comparing myself to him. Not responding may have nothing to do with being vindictive but may instead be about self preservation (on both sides).

[blissful_camper]

Some of my friends got REALLY judgy and annoyed with me bc I responded to my ex's last contact.  Well, that is who I am.  I was careful to keep it all kind and all in the "me" court and they sorta derisively told me I was "giving away my power."  Well, again, that's me.  I don't *care* if he knows I was/am hurt, my motivation isn't to guilt him or to win him back, I just wanted to try to have some sort of adult and genuine conversation at the end of the r/s.

Take the emotionally mature high ground.

If there is one  thing we can take away from this experiences let it be a higher level of emotional maturity.

Amen

[Blimblam]

What i experienced as gas lighting was at the end of the rs when my ex had already checked out but didn't want to loose me as an attachment.  Her own self doubts caused her to go around to friends complaining about me but she would lie about this he then seeked out new attachments. Was seeing other people and lying about it. Any time we had an issue she would complain to her family and friends and they would put up Facebook posts of memes related to my to the episode. When ever I confronted her about these things it always fed back in to her convincing me I was the problem if only I was more this of more that.  Which would lead to me trying to have a constructive conversation about resolving the issue.  When we had these conversations she would dysregulate. Then she would find ways to project her shame back onto me subtly and then convince me once again of being paranoid.  This went on for a couple months and built up very slowly untill I was lost and confused.  I never took the route of being more and more accommodating to her behavior. The problem is I began to doubt my reality and was just unsure of myself. My ex was a classic waif, the quiet borderline and when she would dysregulate she would go into victim

Mode not rage.  She would get her revenge through gas lighting enstead. Most of her abuse was premeditated and quite sadistic. Although I think there was an underlying set of triggers the disorder would sort of manifest in a sort of choose your own adventure book where each percieved choice seemed to lead to more of the same unless I was able to not be offended and endlessly patient and understanding, perhaps.

[SickofMe]

Sure, I want to behave better as well but aren't there times when responding would escalate the situation? I guess the key is to know when to be quiet and when to respond without getting into the power struggle or comparing myself to him. Not responding may have nothing to do with being vindictive but may instead be about self preservation (on both sides).

Mine sent a half-assed apology which was manipulative and blame-y. I responded and said "we wanted different things, that is enough of a reason not to be together. I hope you find someone who is a better fit for you, someday."

I left out the part where what I want is someone honest and healthy, and he wants someone he can take advantage of. :P

It wasn't my first draft. The first one was pathetic, with my groveling and more or less begging him to love me... .sad. Fortunately, I have learned not to hit the "send" button too quickly.

[Blimblam]

The more I think about it the more it sort of makes sense that it was merely a case of the disorder being triggered and my ex looking for an outlet to avoide her pain and it just spiraled from there.

[Deeno02]

I honestly think mine just wanted to dump someone because she got dumped by her husband. Ding, Deeno up to bat, swing and a miss... ,

[going places]

www.narcissisticbehavior.net/the-effects-of-gaslighting-in-narcissistic-victim-syndrome/

It's like someone crawled inside my head, and took notes... .

[peiper]

www.narcissisticbehavior.net/the-effects-of-gaslighting-in-narcissistic-victim-syndrome/

It's like someone crawled inside my head, and took notes... .

More like crawled inside and took my soul, for awhile.

[myself]

One point in this is that we rewarded it - we, unintentionally, encouraged it.

Here's how it was for me.

"Pay no attention to the pwBPD behind the curtain."

But I couldn't look away. Even while getting lost where she pointed.

I ended up cross-eyed. I'm learning to be more focused.

It was like a ping pong game and I was on one side of the net.

She won if I didn't quit, or did. I won if I didn't play.

[going places]

www.narcissisticbehavior.net/the-effects-of-gaslighting-in-narcissistic-victim-syndrome/

It's like someone crawled inside my head, and took notes... .

More like crawled inside and took my soul, for awhile.

This article is 99% spot on what happened to me... .and yes, it's like they sucked the soul right out of you... .

But I am SO thankful for sites like this; SO thankful for battered women's shelters that provide advocates and support groups with NO out of pocket cost: SO thankful for the books written by survivors and doctors so that I could educate myself... .and SO SO very thankful that I was able to see and understand what was being done to me, and the strength to get away and stay away... .and heal. For that, I praise the Lord!

It's not easy to break this 'spell' and it's not easy to break the connection to the abuser, and it's not easy to heal.

But nothing worth having is easy, right?

I am so thankful that I have my sanity, dignity, and respect for myself, in tact!

[guy4caligirl]

Some of my friends got REALLY judgy and annoyed with me bc I responded to my ex's last contact.  Well, that is who I am.  I was careful to keep it all kind and all in the "me" court and they sorta derisively told me I was "giving away my power."  Well, again, that's me.  I don't *care* if he knows I was/am hurt, my motivation isn't to guilt him or to win him back, I just wanted to try to have some sort of adult and genuine conversation at the end of the r/s.

Take the emotionally mature high ground.

If there is one  thing we can take away from this experiences let it be a higher level of emotional maturity.

Amen

we nons are logical people we can discuss problems with our mind functioning normal like give and take , what to expect from the BPD partner ?

They don't even listen to what you're saying all the think about at that time is justification to what ever their part of the story ,lies and make up untrue argument , so how could we get better , I have spent five years with my ex still with the few contacts I have with her she haven't change a bit but guess what I did I can see thru her now she won't fool me again , I am in 5th day of NC and I am proud of it ... .Now it's her turn to wonder why I am giving her the silent treatment she didn't care when she exercise her silent towards me why should I ?

It's just a though .

[Pingo]

I have been thinking about this post all weekend.  Was I gaslit? He tried to distort my reality constantly.  And he was almost successful but I always had a gut reaction to things which made me question his manipulations.  But he was so covert about it that I could never call him on any of it successfully.  Here are some examples:

He'd drop by my work unexpectedly to surprise me... .isn't that romantic? Except I always felt he was checking up on me.  If I had expressed my feelings I would have been cast as the unappreciative selfish wife who is possibly insane.

(Sorry if this is TMI but since guys are discussing BJ's on another thread, I think it should be okay) Near the end of the r/s he would encourage me to let things grow 'au naturelle' down below, as if it was his fetish, yet wasn't in the early part of our r/s.  He acted like it was soo sexy, even had me take pictures when he was away to send him... .I at first enjoyed it and then I got the realisation that he wants me like that to make sure I'm not sleeping around (as if I'd have an affair being like that, not too many guys would like this I realise).

He would text me when I was with my girlfriends, asking what we are doing, what we're eating, can I bring him home something to eat... .I think to prove to him I was where I said I was.  Even said one time that he was looking forward to photos I took at a birthday party (I refused to take any as I felt he again was wanting me to prove where I was).

He'd casually walk by when I was on the computer and act all innocent, I didn't dare demand privacy as it would have made him suspicious, like I was trying to hide something so I just tolerated it.

He'd ask me very specific questions about conversations or texts, all in the name of curiosity but I knew he was just checking up on me.  I allowed the many, many questions because if I had told him it was none of his business he'd then have something to base his suspicion on.

He'd offer to drive me to yoga class as he was going to 'go to the library and hang around for an hour'... .even though he never spent an hour at the library any other time and yoga was only 10 minutes away and I have my own car.  If I refused and said I'd drive myself it would have given him reason for suspicion so once again, just allowed it.

So many things, I could go on and on... .His intention was to get away with these behaviours.  He didn't do them to make me feel like I was going crazy.  So maybe this isn't gaslighting.  But I did most definitely feel like I was going crazy.  Here was a sweet, thoughtful man just trying to say and do nice things and yet I was feeling like he was being very sinister.  And this was a very difficult feeling to have for the man I loved so much.  He manipulated me in such a way that it was impossible to call him on this stuff.  He played the innocent and the victim... .he'd go to his 'counsellor' or his family and tell them how I don't appreciate the kind gestures he makes... .it was such a horrible experience!  Since our split I have had a lot of paranoia about if he is still checking up on me.  I have had suspicion he had access to my email, he had bugged my house, put gps on my car... .I have no proof of any of these things and I've had to let my paranoia go otherwise it was going to consume me.  If he is tracking me so be it.  But definitely crazy-making stuff!

[Deeno02]

I know Pingo. Drives you up the crazy tree at times. Still leaves me second guessing myself... .

[vortex of confusion]

So many things, I could go on and on... .His intention was to get away with these behaviours.  He didn't do them to make me feel like I was going crazy.  So maybe this isn't gaslighting.  But I did most definitely feel like I was going crazy.  Here was a sweet, thoughtful man just trying to say and do nice things and yet I was feeling like he was being very sinister.  And this was a very difficult feeling to have for the man I loved so much.  He manipulated me in such a way that it was impossible to call him on this stuff.  He played the innocent and the victim... .he'd go to his 'counsellor' or his family and tell them how I don't appreciate the kind gestures he makes... .it was such a horrible experience!  Since our split I have had a lot of paranoia about if he is still checking up on me.  I have had suspicion he had access to my email, he had bugged my house, put gps on my car... .I have no proof of any of these things and I've had to let my paranoia go otherwise it was going to consume me.  If he is tracking me so be it.  But definitely crazy-making stuff!

For some reason, it feels really good to hear you say this. I guess it is because this is exactly what I have experienced. He sits on his computer all day and I don't question or say much. When I am on my computer, he will say something if he hears me laugh. He will want to know what is so funny. I can't say "nothing" or he will get pi$$y with me. My computer is a laptop so he will come sit down on the end of the couch and look at what I am doing. I might not care so much but he has to make comments about whatever it is. If he hears me typing, he wants to know if I am typing on my forums or talking to a friend or something else. When he is typing, I rarely say anything. If I say something and try to get him to knock it off, he plays the roll of interested and caring husband. And I hate that when I try to say anything about it I sound like the paranoid, mean wife. I have even gotten crap like, "You wanted me to pay more attention to you so I am giving you more attention. I am giving you want you want and now you are mad at me?" It's a real mind mess

[Pingo]

So many things, I could go on and on... .His intention was to get away with these behaviours.  He didn't do them to make me feel like I was going crazy.  So maybe this isn't gaslighting.  But I did most definitely feel like I was going crazy.  Here was a sweet, thoughtful man just trying to say and do nice things and yet I was feeling like he was being very sinister.  And this was a very difficult feeling to have for the man I loved so much.  He manipulated me in such a way that it was impossible to call him on this stuff.  He played the innocent and the victim... .he'd go to his 'counsellor' or his family and tell them how I don't appreciate the kind gestures he makes... .it was such a horrible experience!  Since our split I have had a lot of paranoia about if he is still checking up on me.  I have had suspicion he had access to my email, he had bugged my house, put gps on my car... .I have no proof of any of these things and I've had to let my paranoia go otherwise it was going to consume me.  If he is tracking me so be it.  But definitely crazy-making stuff!

For some reason, it feels really good to hear you say this. I guess it is because this is exactly what I have experienced. He sits on his computer all day and I don't question or say much. When I am on my computer, he will say something if he hears me laugh. He will want to know what is so funny. I can't say "nothing" or he will get pi$$y with me. My computer is a laptop so he will come sit down on the end of the couch and look at what I am doing. I might not care so much but he has to make comments about whatever it is. If he hears me typing, he wants to know if I am typing on my forums or talking to a friend or something else. When he is typing, I rarely say anything. If I say something and try to get him to knock it off, he plays the roll of interested and caring husband. And I hate that when I try to say anything about it I sound like the paranoid, mean wife. I have even gotten crap like, "You wanted me to pay more attention to you so I am giving you more attention. I am giving you want you want and now you are mad at me?" It's a real mind mess

Yes!  Everything you just said!  One of the things I would complain about throughout our r/s was that he had not made any effort to bond with my s10 (his stepson).  He was very aloof with him.  So when things got to the point where I was thinking of leaving and he knew it, all of a sudden he steps up and starts 'chilling' with my son, showing interest.  When I told him I wanted to end the marriage he threw that in my face, that he had done what I wanted, made a r/s with my son, and it still wasn't enough!  Nevermind the last 4 yrs of him being a d*ck to my son!... .and it was just an act to pacify me anyhow, he didn't really give a ___ about him.

[Skip]

So maybe this isn't gaslighting.  But I did most definitely feel like I was going crazy.

It's not gas lighting and you are making the point that gaslighting is an Internet label that is used to describe so many unrelated things that it is meaningless.

[Artisan]

Some gaslighting examples I experienced:

"You are going to ___ your friends. And strangers." - The next day, I asked her why she said that ... " I didnt say anything, you are making that up."

"You are abusing me!" screamed as she also clawed at her face. The next day, that didn't happen, I made it up just to hurt her feelings.

"I have kept all your emails." ... .I asked her to look back thru them to prove something ... ."I never keep your emails, I am not that kind of person."

[Artisan]

The gaslighting is the one area that really really messed with me.

When she told me that she hated me and to leave ... .and then turned around the next day, called me up and wondered where I was and why I had moved out. She insisted she never said that.

I have forgotten a lot of these things. There is a lot more.

When reviewing how people respond to trauma, its forgotten as time passes. And thus, I have forgotten so much of what happened.

It makes me vulnerable to a recycle.

Many things I only remember at this time because of having wrote it all down. And even now, I just wonder at how accurate I was (I was accurate) ... .because it just seems so fantastical.

Thankful for taking the time to document.

[hope2727]

Early on he would tell me one thing then tell me the exact opposite and deny the first. I thought I had misunderstood. He would tell me a story about a orbiter flirting and then later say it didn't happen. He would delete texts I asked him to keep and then tell me I never told him to save them. Things like that.

Later in the relationship he would cry for hours over something then deny that he was upset about it days later. He also raged about various issues and then did a 180 degree turnabout on his position days later. I began to take notes while he raged and that made him angrier. He would yell "you are going to throw that in my face later". When I told him it was out of respect for him and his concerns that I was taking notes. That I didn't want to misunderstand what he was saying or forget later. He FREAKED!  Looking back at the notes (I am a student so I am a great note taker) were complete opposites from one day to the next. Dizzying.

He would tell me he stayed home crying by the phone hoping I would call and then tell a mutual friend he was out partying. When confronted on this he claimed to "not remember" being out with his friend anytime recently.

He told a mutual friend he emailed me one thing but in reality emailed me something completely different. He also told said friend (my friend long before I met my pwBPD) that I had said or done certain things when I had not. Then he would tell me that said friend no longer wanted to be friends with me as I was unethical. Indeed we are not friends anymore despite my asking the friend about this comment and him denying it. But my pwBPD was totally effective in his smear campaign.

Its been so crazy making that I have ended up in therapy with a Phd psychologist who specializes in BPD as I thought it was me. Last week we discussed how I felt like I had been whittled away at until there was just nothing left of me. Strange thing is I'd like to recycle and try to do better on both our parts. He is in therapy (although I don't think he is really embracing it) and I am learning to find my spine again. Ridiculous I know. What can I say I love the big jerk.

[Aussie JJ]

hmm,

Consider the other thread on Enabling and Codependancy... .

Some people in there are saying, yes I also have a fear of abandonment.  I enabled the behaviour, I allowed it.  I think it stems from here that we have to look at this topic.  Does that imply that by saying those behaviours were acceptable they were 'gaslighting' their pwBPD.  Lets be straight up front here.  We all act on a subconscious level around our fears.  Whatever they may be, fear of loosing your job so you stay back and put in extra hours subconsciously.  Been there done that, anyone? 

For a pwBPD, rejection sensitivity, abandonment.  These add up to fears so overwhelming that they make them happen.  So do we act on our fears?  Do we fear intimacy so much that we accept these behaviours and allow them to happen so that we have 'intamacy'.  Are we gas-lighting the pwBPD into thinking it is a for-filling relationship? 

Did we trick them into thinking that all of this was OK?

Gaslighting is deliberate, it is something pre-planned and orchestrated to have a desired outcome.  A pwBPD doesn't pre-plan you abandoning them, or them abandoning you.  They fear it so much, on such a deep level that they see it coming when its not, so they try to avoid it by being possessive, controlling, anything to make sure you don't abandon them.  Those behaviours are abusive when we enable them however to a pwBPD they are justified as you are then not going to leave, just like staying back is justified as you will keep your job. 

I can say my exBPDgf gaslighted me as well.  It would be a misuse of the term.  Gaslighting is pre-meditated manipulations to get an outcome. 

Not based on fear, but planned in spite.  Even after the breakup, they flaunt their replacements in-front of you so they can sooth themselves that they have made the correct decision.  That they are justified as look how good I am now, this person has saved me.  All the while, fearing the next abandonment from the current partner.  This is done so they can justify it to themselves, I have been saved!~

To walk a mile in someone else's shoes... . 


AJJ. 

[vortex of confusion]

For a pwBPD, rejection sensitivity, abandonment.  These add up to fears so overwhelming that they make them happen.  So do we act on our fears?  Do we fear intimacy so much that we accept these behaviours and allow them to happen so that we have 'intamacy'.  Are we gas-lighting the pwBPD into thinking it is a for-filling relationship? 

That is a very provocative question. If I am completely honest, I have deliberately done things to my partner to try to get him to see things my way. It wasn't to make him feel crazy. It was more to get him to understand or see my reality. I am trying to think of an example of when and why I did it but we all know that it is easier to remember others failings than it is our own.

Did we trick them into thinking that all of this was OK?

I don't feel like I ever tried to trick him into thinking anything was okay. I repeatedly tried to find ways to communicate that what he was doing was NOT okay. After a while, I gave up.

Gaslighting is deliberate, it is something pre-planned and orchestrated to have a desired outcome.  A pwBPD doesn't pre-plan you abandoning them, or them abandoning you.  They fear it so much, on such a deep level that they see it coming when its not, so they try to avoid it by being possessive, controlling, anything to make sure you don't abandon them.  Those behaviours are abusive when we enable them however to a pwBPD they are justified as you are then not going to leave, just like staying back is justified as you will keep your job. 

In order to know whether their actions were deliberate or pre-planned, it would be necessary to be inside their heads. I know that my partner has said that he didn't deliberately do anything to hurt me. But, I question that. If I can't trust what he says most of the time, how can I trust that he was not deliberately doing those things? In some cases, I feel that he did deliberately lie and gaslight me in order to protect himself. If he could convince me of his reality by deliberately twisting things, then I would not be as likely to leave him.

I can say my exBPDgf gaslighted me as well.  It would be a misuse of the term.  Gaslighting is pre-meditated manipulations to get an outcome. 

How does one determine what was premeditated and what wasn't?

[Aussie JJ]

Voc,

My exBPDgf planned on spending the rest of her life with me at one stage.  That was genuine, she didn't plan on it falling apart.  Her fears made it happen, something so powerful she had no control of it.  It wasn't premeditated that we break up and she get a new partner.  It happened out of fears being a reality for her.  Cognitive Distortions, see the link above. 

As I said, walk a mile in someone else's shoes.  It is a horrible process for them to have to live out. 


AJJ. 

[Blimblam]

I can say with certainty during devaluing stage me ex with intention and premeditation did things to destroy my self esteem and condition me to not trust myself. She did this in sadistic fashion.  Before she did this she went through a period of dysregulation and she held that shame in and went about making me feel it in return over time. She was not concious of all the reasons why but she knew she was hurting me and lying about it and it was deliberate so she could feel in control and empowered.

[Aussie JJ]

VoC/BB,

I am not implying that we ourselves are guilty or have 'gaslighted' our exBPD's.  I am saying if you walk a mile in someone else's shoes, look at it from their perspective it is different.  Remember that in the DSM now has a lack of empathy or diminished empathy along with intimacy with BPD as a key aspect. 

So your expwBPD has a inability to see how his/her actions hurt you.  It isn't intentional.  It isn't a premeditated plan to hurt you.  We go, why are they moving on so fast, why are they all over this new supply, was I nothing to them?

Diminished sense of self, or lack of a stable identity.  They get their identity from others.  Their emotions are dependent on the stability of their attachment to their partner in a relationship.  For them showing off the new supply as we all call it here (how unemphatic?) hurts us to the core, we ask ourselves why are they doing this, why are they changing everything for this person, was nothing we had of any meaning to him/her?

In it's simplest form, it is a person who is unable to see how they are hurting you, unable to see how their actions can cause you pain.  The same as they were engrossed in you they are now engrossed in their next relationship.  Their is a inability to see the harm that they cause others, they only at that point in time care about not feeling pain themselves. 

Now lying deliberately.  If you felt so bad about how you had treated someone that you just didn't want to own up to your own actions as it made you feel bad.  You had no ability to see how you hurt others, wanted no accountability for your actions etc.  It wouldn't be lying, it would be justifiable as it made you feel good and in your reality, those feelings were real of being good and being accountable for the lies and deceit would make you feel bad.  That feeling of being a bad person etc, drives some pwBPD to suicide.  That's how intense it is.  Again cognitive distortions linked above. 

I have ranted about how bad my exBPDgf is a fair few times.  Is it gas-lighting, am i distorting facts to make her out to be evil, triangulating her with all of you as my rescuers agreeing that she is the persecutor and I am a victim, am I making her out to be like that deliberately... .  No, its my perception of events, is it true?  From my perspective yes, it is 100% true.  Wait a minute, I just triangulated everyone against her, am I conducting a smear campaign?  Do I have BPD!  She probably thinks I do TBH, quite funny looking at it like that?

For my exBPDgf, it is just how she feels.  It is what she does to avoid the reality of her actions, disassociation to avoid those actions... .  Is my ranting justified, well I don't understand, how can I, I don't have those emotions flying around like she does so powerfully. 

I don't mean to imply that anyone here is 'gaslighting' their ex's.  All I am saying is, our perception is abuse, their perception is defense of their actions and self esteem, they feel good when not owning up to those behaviors.  Were you 100 % perfect in the relationship... .(lets be honest)

My defense of my behavior when painting my exBPDgf black and calling her every name in the book 6 months ago on this forum... .  Much the same as her defense at present.  I was defending my self esteem against my fears, my fears that I was inadequate, my fears that I wasn't good enough.  All those things she said about me that weren't true that she was saying to boost her self esteem and placing on me. 

Now, some of the things we say about our ex's are quite harsh, however they serve a purpose at that point in time.  We work through that and start to understand it and understand our own motivations.  Imagine feeling so bad about being accountable for your behavior you wanted to commit suicide?

My behavior was pretty bad 6 months ago, I am not proud of it, feel free to go through some of my old posts, it isn't pretty.  Her behavior is getting worse, when held accountable I am Sh17 scarred of the consequences. 

All I am saying is, be accountable for your own behavior, be proud of your behavior and 'detach' from the accusations they put out against you, its only gas-lighting from our perspective if we allow it to effect us.  That perception we have of it is very true for us, 100% real. 

I hope I never feel that pain she has to suppress on a daily basis.  I hope I never have to walk in those shoes for a day with those intense emotions that are so powerful. 


AJJ. 

[Blimblam]

Ajj,

My ex knew she was hurting me. I understand it was not personal.  She was projecting and splitting. My ex was a quiet borderline, she did not rage so enstead she would premeditively set up scenerios for me to "fail" at.  She did this by wearing down my self esteem with 1000 little rejections a day and call me paranoid for calling her out on it. So by the time I got to the scenerios she had planned to see if I met her standards I would mess up or not meet her standards.  This way she had proof I was no good. When I called her out on this she would lie.  It was premeditated but she was not conciously aware of the flawed logic behind this. The time spam between her setting me up to fail would shorten as she wore me down over time and each time I fell into her trap she would give a sadistic smirk.

Your ex may have raged. Mine didn't she did what I describe and this is what I refer to as gaslighting.  

I have seen the film and she even moved things around and hid things with the intention of having me doubt myself.  She knew what she was doing and she took a sadistic satisfaction in it.

Although I don't think she was aware this had to do with her projecting and splitting or her inability to process her fear from the dysregulation that led to this weeks prior.  

I found this type of abuse to be much more damaging than raging.

Blimblam

[Aussie JJ]

BB,

Mine on one level knows she is hurting me, about once every few months she would appologise for something when together.  Other than that no self awareness.  To me, what your describing is someone setting up scenarios to prove that you were abandoning/rejecting her.  Not meeting her standards so your forfilling her fears of abandonment.  She fears it so much she escalates the demands so that you prove that love and confirm to her it wont happen. 

Quite horific, each time this fear of rejection/abandonment is met with the failure to meet these unrealistic demands. 

Doesnt make it a deliberate attempt to hurt you, I am saying it is an attempt to try and make you prove you wont and she subconciously fears it so much she escalates until it does happen.  To me, what i went through, seemed very real, very traumatic, very deliberate. 


AJJ. 

[Blimblam]

Ajj,

I have a BPD mom and I have experienced her abuse which was more a direct respoce she doesn't have control over.  I have also experienced with my step mom with some cluster b traits set in up scenerios for me to fail at.

With my ex it was taken to a new level.  Not only did she set up the scenerios but she deliberately went out if her way to hurt me and cause me to doubt myself.  I have no doubts in my mind about this.  She would hide something then when I was getting ready and getting stressed out as she was smirking pull it out from where she moved it and tell me how "not chill" I am.  That's is one example. Probably the most clear one.  

Or when I was about to do something make a quick comment to keep me off ballance before i took the action to screw me up.  Then tell me how I can't do anything right.  It was deliberate systematic abuse. She had self repose and was calm and collected when she took these actions.

I felt like I was constantly being set up but she would lie and switch into baby voice pity or seduction to always keep me off ballance.  

This was how she devalued it was the intent to prove to her i was worthless. Really it was about her inner critic punishing her own abandoned child but she was projecting the abandoned child onto me and she took the role as persecuter.

She did this very subtly at first and it escalated the more I began to doubt myself.

I understand it had to do with her abandonment fears and replaying that drama in her head with a role reversal.  The the intent to hurt was deliberate. Honestly I think she wanted me to get abusive with her so she could be the victim.

[Aussie JJ]

Shock value,

Read up on the www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blitzkrieg tactics the germans used.  Essentially shock and overwhelm to maintain control of the battlefield.  Mine tries to shock me as well, overwhelm me as well.  Its about not loosing control themselves.  Not about hurting us, they dont see that, all they see is control and having control there is safety in that. 

Very genralised I know. 

My exBPDgf started being nice to me at handover after I saw her break down and cry last week at handover.  Blocked me in the doorway this past weekend when I was tryign to leave.  Same thing, control of a situation. 

My response, stand there look at her and not acknowledge what was happening.  Didnt ask her to more, didnt ask her to explain what she was doing, silence.  No emotion and when the behaviour doesnt get a response from me she started to panic. 

Blocking that doorway was an attempt to make me engage.  I stood there for about 30 seconds just staring blankly at her.  Finally she asked me what are you looking at, why are you looking at me like that?

My response, I shrugged, didnt give her the emotion, just ignored it.  When there is something you dont like, dont engage in it now.  Hard to de-personalise as it is so personal.  I'll PM some of the stuff across to you as well mate. 


AJJ. 

[going places]

Gaslighting is pre-meditated manipulations to get an outcome. 

The outcome he wanted was for ME to file divorce so that HE could avoid 'being the bad guy'.

His goal was to make me so miserable, so emotionally off balance and unstable that I would file for divorce.

He wanted the divorce BUT he didn't want to move out. Wanted to stay living here while we were divorced, and until the house sold... .

Example of him, gaslighting me:

In 2011, the 'counselor' we were seeing recommended a book for us to read.

I had read that book in the past and found it to be very sexist... .but... .it had a couple of good points.

In 2011 we discussed this book, and how 90% of it was utter garbage, but 10% was good information.

Flash forward to early 2014.

We are in the vehicle coming home from somewhere, and as much as I didn't want to bring up the topic (because it sent him into temper tantrum mode) I had too... .so I asked him what was his plan for us moving forward.

He flew into a fit saying I don't appreciate what he does for me.

(writes me a note in the morning telling me he took the dogs out / putting away the laundry / brings home ice cream on Thursday nights)

IN HIS MIND this was what an outstanding stellar husband does... .and he deserved a parade for his great deeds

I told him I did appreciate them, but those are not things we are doing to repair the marriage and look towards the future... .

Then he says "well YOU SAID that your love language was ______"

I said "what? when did we have this discussion?"

He said "YOU told me your love language was ______ and I WAS JUST DOING what YOU told me"

I said "no... .we discussed that book, and determined it was garbage, but this 10% was good information

He said "NO you told me this was your love language and all I was doing was what the book and you told me to do".

I said "I never said that".

((NOW he has me second guessing. I have ALWAYS had a mind like a steel trap, I forget nothing. BUT what he put me thru, the PTSD the depression... .now, I am second guessing)

NOW I start apologizing, telling him I do appreciate what he does.

Now he is cold, won't talk, and when he does, he keeps repeating

"YOU told me that was you love language, YOU told me that is what you wanted".

I know for a FACT it is NOT what I told him.

But he would twist things to where I would second guess myself. I couldn't make simple decisions without a monumental amount of thinking.

He had me so twisted, *I* was apologizing to him FOR HIS AFFAIR!

I walked around like a zombie... .All joy, happiness, and life, was sucked out of me... .

For ONE YEAR (because a counselor told me I was "unforgiving if I talked" I told NO ONE not one soul what was happening to me... .finally, I told my doc... .and she sat in the office, and cried.

I knew something was wrong. I knew that this was NOT "me"... .I knew something was screwed up but I didn't know what... .I had no idea what was going on... .

I most definitely was gas lit.

It is insidious, and evil.

[Deeno02]

Gaslighting is pre-meditated manipulations to get an outcome. 

The outcome he wanted was for ME to file divorce so that HE could avoid 'being the bad guy'.

His goal was to make me so miserable, so emotionally off balance and unstable that I would file for divorce.

He wanted the divorce BUT he didn't want to move out. Wanted to stay living here while we were divorced, and until the house sold... .

Example of him, gaslighting me:

In 2011, the 'counselor' we were seeing recommended a book for us to read.

I had read that book in the past and found it to be very sexist... .but... .it had a couple of good points.

In 2011 we discussed this book, and how 90% of it was utter garbage, but 10% was good information.

Flash forward to early 2014.

We are in the vehicle coming home from somewhere, and as much as I didn't want to bring up the topic (because it sent him into temper tantrum mode) I had too... .so I asked him what was his plan for us moving forward.

He flew into a fit saying I don't appreciate what he does for me.

(writes me a note in the morning telling me he took the dogs out / putting away the laundry / brings home ice cream on Thursday nights)

IN HIS MIND this was what an outstanding stellar husband does... .and he deserved a parade for his great deeds

I told him I did appreciate them, but those are not things we are doing to repair the marriage and look towards the future... .

Then he says "well YOU SAID that your love language was ______"

I said "what? when did we have this discussion?"

He said "YOU told me your love language was ______ and I WAS JUST DOING what YOU told me"

I said "no... .we discussed that book, and determined it was garbage, but this 10% was good information

He said "NO you told me this was your love language and all I was doing was what the book and you told me to do".

I said "I never said that".

((NOW he has me second guessing. I have ALWAYS had a mind like a steel trap, I forget nothing. BUT what he put me thru, the PTSD the depression... .now, I am second guessing)

NOW I start apologizing, telling him I do appreciate what he does.

Now he is cold, won't talk, and when he does, he keeps repeating

"YOU told me that was you love language, YOU told me that is what you wanted".

I know for a FACT it is NOT what I told him.

But he would twist things to where I would second guess myself. I couldn't make simple decisions without a monumental amount of thinking.

He had me so twisted, *I* was apologizing to him FOR HIS AFFAIR!

I walked around like a zombie... .All joy, happiness, and life, was sucked out of me... .

For ONE YEAR (because a counselor told me I was "unforgiving if I talked" I told NO ONE not one soul what was happening to me... .finally, I told my doc... .and she sat in the office, and cried.

I knew something was wrong. I knew that this was NOT "me"... .I knew something was screwed up but I didn't know what... .I had no idea what was going on... .

I most definitely was gas lit.

It is insidious, and evil.

If I never hear of that book again, I'd be a happy man. Had that force fed down my throat by my gf. God... .the stupid, it burns!

[going places]

Gaslighting is pre-meditated manipulations to get an outcome. 

The outcome he wanted was for ME to file divorce so that HE could avoid 'being the bad guy'.

His goal was to make me so miserable, so emotionally off balance and unstable that I would file for divorce.

He wanted the divorce BUT he didn't want to move out. Wanted to stay living here while we were divorced, and until the house sold... .

Example of him, gaslighting me:

In 2011, the 'counselor' we were seeing recommended a book for us to read.

I had read that book in the past and found it to be very sexist... .but... .it had a couple of good points.

In 2011 we discussed this book, and how 90% of it was utter garbage, but 10% was good information.

Flash forward to early 2014.

We are in the vehicle coming home from somewhere, and as much as I didn't want to bring up the topic (because it sent him into temper tantrum mode) I had too... .so I asked him what was his plan for us moving forward.

He flew into a fit saying I don't appreciate what he does for me.

(writes me a note in the morning telling me he took the dogs out / putting away the laundry / brings home ice cream on Thursday nights)

IN HIS MIND this was what an outstanding stellar husband does... .and he deserved a parade for his great deeds

I told him I did appreciate them, but those are not things we are doing to repair the marriage and look towards the future... .

Then he says "well YOU SAID that your love language was ______"

I said "what? when did we have this discussion?"

He said "YOU told me your love language was ______ and I WAS JUST DOING what YOU told me"

I said "no... .we discussed that book, and determined it was garbage, but this 10% was good information

He said "NO you told me this was your love language and all I was doing was what the book and you told me to do".

I said "I never said that".

((NOW he has me second guessing. I have ALWAYS had a mind like a steel trap, I forget nothing. BUT what he put me thru, the PTSD the depression... .now, I am second guessing)

NOW I start apologizing, telling him I do appreciate what he does.

Now he is cold, won't talk, and when he does, he keeps repeating

"YOU told me that was you love language, YOU told me that is what you wanted".

I know for a FACT it is NOT what I told him.

But he would twist things to where I would second guess myself. I couldn't make simple decisions without a monumental amount of thinking.

He had me so twisted, *I* was apologizing to him FOR HIS AFFAIR!

I walked around like a zombie... .All joy, happiness, and life, was sucked out of me... .

For ONE YEAR (because a counselor told me I was "unforgiving if I talked" I told NO ONE not one soul what was happening to me... .finally, I told my doc... .and she sat in the office, and cried.

I knew something was wrong. I knew that this was NOT "me"... .I knew something was screwed up but I didn't know what... .I had no idea what was going on... .

I most definitely was gas lit.

It is insidious, and evil.

If I never hear of that book again, I'd be a happy man. Had that force fed down my throat by my gf. God... .the stupid, it burns!

I broke that book down in front of him AND the counselor... .and showed how 'stupid' it was.

Essentially said "give a woman trinkets and she will be happy, give a man sex and fawn all over him and he will be happy, and you will live happily ever after".

I thought it was a bunch of horse spit.