Appreciate comments on new article...

[Depression = 72% of members]

I recently served as host/editor for a Wiki article and I wanted to solicit your review.

Wiki articles are encyclopedic - fact based - and not concept pieces. 

www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codependency

[Skip]

I recently served as host/editor for a Wiki article and I wanted to solicit your review.

Wiki articles are encyclopedic - fact based - and not concept pieces. 

www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codependency

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[EaglesJuju]

It was very well written and informative. I do like the theoretical foundations that you used. It would be interesting to know if there is a biosocial model that explains the etiology of co-dependency.  Also, why was DPD excluded from the DSM-V?  I remember hearing something about a  DPD diagnosis primarily being attributed to women.  What is the difference between co-dependency and DPD? I always assumed they were the same thing as, co-dependency was a label given to reduce the stigma of a PD. 

[Skip]

What is the difference between co-dependency and DPD? I always assumed they were the same thing as, co-dependency was a label given to reduce the stigma of a PD.  

Given its grassroots origin, the precise definition of codependency varies based on the source but can be generally characterized as a subclinical and situational or episodic behavior similar to that of dependent personality disorder.[1]



I'll change it to:

subclinical and situational or episodic behavior (not pervasive) similar to that of dependent personality disorder

Also, why was DPD excluded from the DSM-V?  I remember hearing something about a  :)PD diagnosis primarily being attributed to women.

It was removed in one draft, then added back.

It would be interesting to know if there is a biosocial model that explains the etiology of co-dependency.

If you see anything, let me know.

[BorisAcusio]

What is the difference between co-dependency and DPD? I always assumed they were the same thing as, co-dependency was a label given to reduce the stigma of a PD.  

Given its grassroots origin, the precise definition of codependency varies based on the source but can be generally characterized as a subclinical and situational or episodic behavior similar to that of dependent personality disorder.[1]



I'll change it to:

subclinical and situational or episodic behavior (not pervasive) similar to that of dependent personality disorder

Also, why was DPD excluded from the DSM-V?  I remember hearing something about a  :)PD diagnosis primarily being attributed to women.

It was removed in one draft, then added back.

It would be interesting to know if there is a biosocial model that explains the etiology of co-dependency.

If you see anything, let me know.

Also, what we know about codependency is pretty much correlates with the description of altruistic narcissism.

[Skip]

Also, what we know about codependency is pretty much correlates with the description of altruistic narcissism.

Is there a scholarly article on altruistic narcissism?  I know this is blogger fodder, but is there a University reference?

[Trog]

I think it's a great round up of the main issues of codependency, do you have already posted the follow up, 'How to recover from codependency' does a guide, practical how to guide, exist on the boards?

[EaglesJuju]

Also, what we know about codependency is pretty much correlates with the description of altruistic narcissism.

Is there a scholarly article on altruistic narcissism?  I know this is blogger fodder, but is there a University reference?

This seems to be the origin of altruistic/covert narcissism. 

Wink, P. (1991). Two faces of narcissism. Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, 61(4), 590.

[BorisAcusio]

Also, what we know about codependency is pretty much correlates with the description of altruistic narcissism.

Is there a scholarly article on altruistic narcissism?  I know this is blogger fodder, but is there a University reference?

There are a growing number of studies on the two distinct type of narcissism. The accepted term for the altruistic one is vunerable narcissism. You can find them on PubMed.

"While feeling they deserve to be recognized for their specialness, unlike the Arrogant/Overt Narcissist, the Covert/Shy Narcissist is plagued by self-doubts and thus does not as readily seek the affirmation from others he or she believes is due.  Moreover, because of this strong sense of worthlessness, this type of narcissist often will not seek out appropriate friends or romantic partners because they fear exposure as frauds; for this reason their associates tend to be conspicuously inferior to themselves. Cooper observes that this narcissist, secretly harbors fantasies that he or she is engaged in a heroic rescue of someone of lesser capabilities.

Cooper, A. M. (1998). Further developments in the clinical diagnosis of narcissistic personality disorder. In E. F. Ronningstam (Ed.), Disorders of narcissism: Diagnostic, clinical, and empirical implications (pp. 53-74). Washington, DC: American Psychiatric Press.

[BorisAcusio]

Also, what we know about codependency is pretty much correlates with the description of altruistic narcissism.

Is there a scholarly article on altruistic narcissism?  I know this is blogger fodder, but is there a University reference?

This seems to be the origin of altruistic/covert narcissism. 

Wink, P. (1991). Two faces of narcissism. Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, 61(4), 590.

Even Masterson proposed two categories for pathological narcissism, the shy/covert one and the overt/grandiose.

[Skip]

OK good.

"Vulnerability-Sensitivity" I know.  And the term fits apprehension, susceptibility, defensiveness, and introversion.

The "altruistic" label, showing a disinterested and selfless concern for the well-being of others; unselfish, never made sense to me and it doesn't seem like an apt alternative for Vulnerability-Sensitivity.

I was familiar with:

Results demonstrated a commonality of traits organized by Wink (1991) into Grandiosity-Exhibitionism and Vulnerability-Sensitivity categories. Both categories differ such that Grandiosity-Exhibitionism is characterized with aggression, self-confidence, exhibitionism, and extraversion. On the other hand, Vulnerability-Sensitivity is associated with apprehension, susceptibility, defensiveness, and introversion (Wink, 1991).

Very helpful.  Thanks!

[BorisAcusio]

OK good.

"Vulnerability-Sensitivity" I know.  And the term fits apprehension, susceptibility, defensiveness, and introversion.

The "altruistic" label, showing a disinterested and selfless concern for the well-being of others; unselfish, never made sense to me and it doesn't seem like an apt alternative for Vulnerability-Sensitivity.

I was familiar with:

Results demonstrated a commonality of traits organized by Wink (1991) into Grandiosity-Exhibitionism and Vulnerability-Sensitivity categories. Both categories differ such that Grandiosity-Exhibitionism is characterized with aggression, self-confidence, exhibitionism, and extraversion. On the other hand, Vulnerability-Sensitivity is associated with apprehension, susceptibility, defensiveness, and introversion (Wink, 1991).

Very helpful.  Thanks!

I agree. Altruism is not the most apt name, but it was used a lot by the member, 2010.

Do they purposely pick and choose who they do this to?

Of course. Borderlines do not lead, they follow.

Borderline is an attachment disorder. It might be that the person they mirror has qualities that they wish they could have, such as a healthy sense of self or they mirror wounded people while appearing as saviors. Unfortunately whatever the mirroring suggests, it appeals to the partner and they also mirror and project back onto the Borderline the same qualities. Meanwhile, the Borderline "deficient" self clings to the partner in fusion.  You can follow the need.

If the partner has a healthy dose of self esteem, they will begin to notice a lack of separation/individuation on the part of the Borderline and try to peel them off. If the partner has a *un*healthy dose of self esteem, such as an altruistic narcissist, they will derive their sense of worth from helping the Borderline stay stuck to them and prohibit a lack of separation/individuation on the part of the Borderline.

(Altruistic narcissists can take on more than they can carry as they have been forced to do this for most of their lives in order to exist.)

Either way, either style of partner, the questioning of clinging behaviors become the perception of "confrontation" to a Borderline. That's when most of the Borderline lying and maneuvering comes into play and forms the bulk of the relationship.  All that's left is for the Borderline to find a new host to mirror and withdraw from the old. Healthy or unhealthy, the majority of people who fuse with the Borderline also "purposely pick and choose" who they give their time to- so often times these bonds are hardly broken when the Borderline moves on. It's when the Borderline returns and then leaves again that self-discovery begins for the partner.

[Mutt]

I kindly ask to stay on the topic of discussion. The original post ( OP ) is community feedback on the wiki article. Thank you.

[fromheeltoheal]

Good article Skip.  I don't know if "Controversies" is the best heading for the last section, maybe that's correct when coming from a DSM base, although "Alternate Viewpoints" seems better to me.  I think that section should also include a passage about the difference between codependence and interdependence, the former having a negative connotation and the latter having a positive,healthy one, although they are similar and on the same continuum.