Unconditional Love vs Affection

[K1313]

Hi everyone. I hope the holidays have been good to all of you.

In my last post, I asked for advice in addressing my BPDmother's negative comments about my father (they've been divorced for almost 25 years). I did wind up writing her a letter. It went about as well as it could have but while she didn't blow up at me for it, she did (in a conversation about a week and half later) tell me that she felt like she couldn't talk to me freely. This is normal for her, she'll talk about how close we are and how wonderful our relationship is but the second we have conflict of any variety, she'll allude to some deep schism in our relationship that keeps us from being close.

Since then we've continued to talk about 2-3x a week but the conversations have taken on a frostiness. While she's never been very good at asking other people about themselves and their lives, this has been amplified 10x in recent weeks. If I call her, she talks and talks and talks without ever asking me anything until she says "Oh, I'm late for an appointment" and hangs up or, if she calls me it's when "I'm on the road but I have ten minutes and wanted to call you" and then talk and talk and talk without giving me a chance to do anything other than be an audience. On Christmas, I called and she spent all of two minutes talking to me before she foisted the phone onto my enmeshed brother (she did the same thing at Thanksgiving).

In so many ways, my life is beyond wonderful. I have an amazing partner, in-laws, friends and other family. I wake up feeling blessed each day. Far and away the greatest source of distress for me is my relationship with my mother. Lately I've been thinking a lot about unconditional love vs unconditional affection. My partner and I have been together for almost 8 years. We separated for a year before reuniting and strengthening our relationship beyond my wildest dreams. Everything that we went through has really taught me a lot about unconditional love and what it should be like even when you're in conflict with the other person.

My instinct is to say that my mother loves me unconditionally but that her affection is very much conditional. I say this because even now, in a moment of conflict with her, I know that if I called her with a crisis she would drop everything to be there and help (after all, aren't most BPD's pretty stellar in times of crisis? It's kind of their comfort zone). She would put aside her feelings to be there for her kid. But the rest of the time, her affection is contingent upon her being happy with the person. If she feels like she's been slighted in some way, she will withdraw and become cold. As a BPD, when she focuses on you it's like being bathed in the most glorious rays of sunshine but heaven forbid you displease her because then you are cast out of that beautiful sunshine faster than you can blink.

So... .I guess I'm posting now because I see a lot of things here about how BPDs don't experience unconditional love and I always thought "well my mom does... .doesn't she?" Maybe it's a moot point, but I've found myself wondering about this a lot lately. Is it still unconditional love if her affection is not unconditional? Aren't the two somewhat entwined? Although she might put aside her feelings if I have a crisis, I feel like that's more about her being able to cultivate an image as someone who does anything and everything for her kids. She constantly says things to me about things my brothers have done that caused her such pain but how she "put it aside because my children needed me".

But then again... .she will use those moments of crisis against you. Example: when my partner and I separated, my mother moved to my town. She had been talking about wanting to ever since we first moved here and she did it then with lots of "Oh I love [my town] and it will be so much cheaper to live there and I really need to save money etc etc" but then, about 5 months later she had to move back to her old town when she won a seat in local politics (she decided to run after she had moved here). So just the other day, she talked about her financial difficulties, she cited her frequent moves in the last 3 years "I mean, the move to [your town] wasn't for me. I did it for you so that I could be near you when you were struggling but it cost a lot to do it. And I'd do it again but... ." Ooo! I was so mad. I NEVER asked her to move here (in fact I really, really didn't want her to because I know what it's like to live near her) and to bring it up now (when we're having conflict) as a reason she's in the hole financially... .Ugh.

I'm sorry... .this turned into more of a rant than me making observations or asking questions. I guess I'm just wondering if it's possible for a BPD to experience unconditional love (not just their version of it, but a version that most people would recognise)?

If you made this far, thanks! You're a brave and patient soul. 

[clljhns]

Hi K1313,

If she feels like she's been slighted in some way, she will withdraw and become cold. As a BPD, when she focuses on you it's like being bathed in the most glorious rays of sunshine but heaven forbid you displease her because then you are cast out of that beautiful sunshine faster than you can blink.

This is a really good example of how a pwBPD operates. The same is true with my mom. Your question is a good one

I guess I'm just wondering if it's possible for a BPD to experience unconditional love (not just their version of it, but a version that most people would recognise)?

 

I don't think they have the ability to see the other person's perspective, therefore they lack empathy. Without empathy, the ability to put yourself in the other person's shoes, and feel what they are feeling, I don't think unconditional love can exist.

I have to share a story to illustrate my point. When my DD was 17, she had her nose pierced. It was a very tiny diamond, and so, was very hard to see. She also wanted to dye her hair a different colour. I took her to buy the hair colour, and did it for her. My mom came to visit one weekend and was shocked to see the different hair colour and nose ring. As soon as my DD was out of earshot, she began her tirade. "She has a nose ring!" My reply: "Yes. I know. I paid for it. I think it is very attractive." My mother retorted, while snorting: "Her hair is red! You know what that means! She is doing drugs!" I replied: "I know her hair is red. I bought it and dyed it for her. I don't think this means she is doing drugs." My mother continued on her tirade, basically telling me that my daughter had slid down a slippery slope to Hell, and that I should cut my losses and let her go. Meaning, I should throw her out. At this point, I told my mother that if my DD walked in the door with piercings in her ears, eyebrows, lips, and cheeks; nails painted black, and wearing all black clothes, I would love her anyway. My mother's response to this was: "What do you mean?" I told her that I loved her no matter what she did, or how she dressed, or what colour her hair was. I loved her unconditionally. My mom just stood there, speechless. She didn't know what to say. It was actually one of the rare occasions that my response would leave her silent. My mom didn't get it. She never did. Love was something that had strings attached. She had a view of love based on a needs. Her needs. I don't think she ever thought about how she impacted others. I don't think she thought it was wrong to tell me to throw out my daughter. In her mind, my daughter must have done these things without my approval, therefore the appropriate response in her mind would be to throw the person away. This was not foreign to her. She did this with one of my sisters and my brother.

So, it seems quite natural for a pwBPD to think of their needs above all others, which does not allow for the needs of others.

How would you describe unconditional love? What would it look and feel like?

Peace and blessings.

[K1313]

Thanks for the response, cllljhns.

You make some interesting points. The empathy thing is something I've been thinking about a lot lately. I used to think that my mother had a problem with too much empathy - tell her something bad and she'll react with such vehemence that it seems like she's empathizing to an extreme. But, over time, I realized that her "empathy" really just meant that her emotions/reactions got so huge that you wound up comforting or reassuring her instead of the other way around.

As for your question, what does unconditional love look and feel like to me? ... .That's a hard question to answer in some ways. I know what it feels like because I'm blessed to have it in my life with a few of my friends and with my partner but ask me to put it into words and it gets tricky!

I think for me, unconditional love means the ability to be myself, my true self, without fear that I will be shunned for it or forever reminded of the ways in which my true self might have messed up or fallen short (as we all do at some point). It means that although I'm not perfect, the other person will forgive these imperfections and loving work to help me realize where I need to grow and change not because they want me to change but because they want me to thrive.

For example: My partner and I might disagree and have a fight about something but 1. he never gets cruel (my mother telling me I'm a "selfish little ___" or that I was the source of her pain regarding my father - her ex-husband) when we're fighting nor does he rehash old wounds (the time my brother and I didn't invite her out for pizza when we were hanging out with friends 12 years ago) or use things against me and 2. if we're having a disagreement about something specific, we're able to agree to disagree without begrudging or trashing the other person. There have been times where we haven't been able to come to an agreement on something and while we might be slightly miffed that we weren't able to persuade the other person, we don't withhold our affection from each other or turn passive aggressive (passive aggressiveness is my mother's forte).

[clljhns]

Hi K1313,

I think you explained it well! When we love someone else unconditionally, we want the best for them. We want them to grow and explore themselves, knowing that there is someone who is cheering us on and will be there with a gentle shoulder if it doesn't turn out the way we wanted.

they want me to thrive

Yes! Isn't that what we all want?

So, back to your original question of whether your mom can give unconditional love. What do you think?

Peace and blessings. 

[littlebirdcline]

I really identify with your post.  I think this is a hard question to wrap your brain around for a non-BPD.  I do believe my mother loves me, and as you say, in a crisis, she would be here in a heartbeat.  But I think she feels at her core that no one loves her, and so in order to feel that we love her, we must agree with everything she says and does.  If we do things she doesn't like, especially if we know she disagrees, then it is a rejection of her and we don't love her.  So she lashes out like a child.  If we really loved her, we would do what she tells us because she knows better and has our best interests at heart.  It's a very immature form of love, which makes sense, because she often seems to me like she is frozen in emotional childhood. 

And this past year, as I have tried to establish boundaries and start taking care of myself, she has withdrawn exactly like you describe.  In the past, we would have a giant blowup, not talk for a few days, and then I would take the blame for the whole thing and everything would go back to "normal", after a period of abuse and blame on me.  Now that I am not playing the game, it doesn't seem that we can go back to "normal" and I am just waiting for the next blow up. 

So, to answer your question, I think there is a level/type of love, and that all BPD's are not the same.