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Author Topic: When to Speak and When to Shut Up  (Read 712 times)
hope2727
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Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
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« Reply #30 on: December 29, 2014, 06:56:02 PM »

Here's a good rule to enforce.  If you wouldn't let the neighbour's four year old act that way, don't let anyone else, including your husband.  The rule, house rule, is everyone deserves respect.  Period.  Dad is not above that rule.  You have a right to enforce this, because you are responsible for the safety of your children.  You did the right thing stepping in, and do it again.

oh my heart goes out to you, VC.  It's so hard to be a non.  I've heard some good advice passed around on this site.  Go Team Non.

Gotta go,

c.

Oh wow I love this one. Thank you for the simple but profound guideline.

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RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING
This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

Cat Familiar
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« Reply #31 on: December 29, 2014, 06:59:39 PM »

This reminds of something he did today. He has been playing on his computer most of the day. At one point, he came over to the part of the room where I was and started talking to me. I was in the middle of typing something. I didn't say anything but did try to acknowledge that I had heard him. He tells me, "I come over here to try to connect with you and I get nothing." Um, it makes me so bleeping angry that he can ignore me all day and play his game yet when HE wants to connect I am supposed to stop what I am doing and talk to him.

In all honesty, I haven't enjoyed my husband's company in a long time. I feel like the only thing we talk about is our relationship or HIS recovery and how great he is doing.

I think I am feeling sad and depressed right now because it is the end of the year and I am thinking about resolutions and things that I would like to see be different for the new year. All I can think of is that I can't think that far ahead. I have to take things one day at a time and try to do my best to keep the peace. I feel so hopeless. I have spent another year going through the motions and worrying about somebody that doesn't seem to give a rat's patooty about me. I know that seems a bit extreme and melodramatic but that is how I am feeling right now.

My therapist's words about the narcissistic wound keep echoing in my head. They are so self-absorbed and really don't put much energy into others unless there is something to be gained from the interaction. Like Waverider said, we are obligations, not investments. The question is how to make ourselves into investments again and do we want to do that? In your case, it sounds like you're so burned out, you're just waiting to jump ship.

And really, why should we have to jump through hoops to make ourselves valuable in the relationship again. It's almost like some article in some women's magazine: "Make yourself alluring so that he only has eyes for you."    

I'm trying to figure out a way to be true to myself, not hurt his feelings, put up with all the dysfunctional behavior, not feel terribly disappointed that he's not the man I thought I had married, and as you have said, take one day at a time.
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“The Four Agreements  1. Be impeccable with your word.  2. Don’t take anything personally.  3. Don’t make assumptions.  4. Always do your best. ”     ― Miguel Ruiz, The Four Agreements: A Practical Guide to Personal Freedom
MissyM
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« Reply #32 on: December 29, 2014, 09:43:58 PM »

Excerpt
He said, "The only one that is special to me is me." And then he proceeded to talk about the girl that he was engaged to before me. 

That is really disturbing to me and somehow chilling.  In recovery my dBPDh would say something like that is a huge character defect for me, that I only think of myself as special and I am working on it.
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vortex of confusion
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« Reply #33 on: December 29, 2014, 11:32:40 PM »

Excerpt
He said, "The only one that is special to me is me." And then he proceeded to talk about the girl that he was engaged to before me. 

That is really disturbing to me and somehow chilling.  In recovery my dBPDh would say something like that is a huge character defect for me, that I only think of myself as special and I am working on it.

It was very unsettling. He did go on to catch himself and say that he wanted to change and not be so self centered. I don't know if he is actually going to do anything with that acknowledgement though. In my opinion, his recovery seems to be making him even more self centered. I realize that my perspective may be skewed and that I may not be patient enough but my gut says that it isn't really helping.

His therapist gave him an assignment to read a particular book so they could discuss it at his next visit. He made all kinds of excuses as to why he couldn't afford this 12 dollar book so I bought it for him. He kept telling me that he didn't want to spend the money on it until we had bought all of the presents for the girls for Christmas. The funny part was that he kept saying he didn't want to spend the money on it because of Christmas but then he turned around and spent 30 dollars on something for one of his online games.

I have no idea how to even bring that up because I know that his reaction will be, "I know, I messed up. I am stupid. I don't know why I bother." I have chosen not to bring it up because it isn't really that important. It is one thing among many. I am trying to focus on the things that will make things more peaceful and healthy for the kids. I try to save my complaints/criticisms/negativity for the things that really matter like when he got onto one of the kids for saying Hi to me. I had been asleep on the couch but my daughter saw that I had woken up so she said something to me. He got onto her and told her to leave me alone because I was asleep. He didn't even bother to check, he just got onto her and assumed that she was trying to wake me up.
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123Phoebe
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« Reply #34 on: December 30, 2014, 03:53:13 AM »

Somewhere along the way, all of that changed and it is like he has no clue who I even am.

Can you go back in time and pinpoint when the dramatic change took place?  Or maybe it's been an insidious process...

Have you consistently walked your talk?

I apologize for bringing up this subject, the one of both of you stepping out of your marriage in search of other sexual partners.  Were you being true to who you are while that was taking place?  Are you still in contact with the guy? 

The reason I bring this up is because with exh, I made it known through my words about things going on in my family (sister's husband not working blah blah long story... ), how gross that was, her supporting him.  All the while, I was slowly doing the same thing with him, supporting him.  I wasn't walking my talk.  My actions didn't match my words.  Confusing!  Looking back it's like, how could he take anything I said seriously when I was refusing to implement it?  Was I the wife who won't financially support a husband, or the wife who will... .  I WAS supporting him = my actions spoke louder than my words.  Yet, I blamed him for leaving me no choice but to support him.  Blech, dark confusing days those were... .

So, my point is... . he might not really know who you are.  I didn't know who I was, or didn't know how to really get back there; mixed up!
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vortex of confusion
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« Reply #35 on: December 30, 2014, 08:41:50 AM »

Can you go back in time and pinpoint when the dramatic change took place?  Or maybe it's been an insidious process...

It has been a very slow and insidious process that has occurred very gradually and slowly over time. I can pinpoint a few key events and changes that seemed to accelerate things.

1. The first change started immediately after we said "I do." I chalked that up to the fact that we were both young and had never been married. That changed involved a lack of true physical intimacy. Basically, that is when it became clear that he seemed to prefer porn and self pleasure. There is more to life than sex so I didn't see it as that big of a deal.

2. More changes started around the time our oldest daughter was born. That was about 3 years in. There were a whole bunch of really big changes at once. He got a new job. We bought our first house. A month before our daughter was born and two weeks after we bought and moved into our first house, a major flood hit and we got 36 inches of water in our house. We spent the night on the side of a freeway. I think that it may have been around that time when the trauma bond formed. It seems that after that, I was always pretty easy on my husband, meaning that I didn't really insist on much. He pushed himself harder than I could. In my mind, I had him on a bit of a pedestal at that point but I did sense that things were changing. I chalked that up to being new parents and dealing with the aftermath of the flood.

3. Around the 5 year mark, he was forced to resign from his position at work because he got looking at porn on the job. I was ready to walk away at that point. But, our oldest daughter was around 2 and she really loved her daddy. He was a pretty good daddy to her at that point. He played with her and the three of us did all sorts of stuff together. I had a great little family and I was afraid to do anything to jeopardize it. So, I swallowed any and all of my discontent and committed myself to helping my husband and supporting him. I agreed to be his everything. He went to one SAA meeting and came home and said he wasn't like those guys, blah, blah, blah. Both of us were really arrogant and naive. We thought that we both strong enough as individuals and as a couple to overcome all of it on our own. Also, I think that is the point when I started keeping my feelings to myself about a lot of stuff. I was afraid of making my husband feel guilty or bad. That was the point when I started asking him stuff but agreed not to react no matter what the answer. That is when the major repression began for me.

4. There was a lot of little stuff between the 5 year mark and the 9 or 10 year mark. I am thinking it was 2007-2008 when the next really big shift occurred. That is when he and I were both really kind of depressed. Our third daughter was born and there was a lot of unrest. He got a job in his home state by his parents. It was a really prestigious job. Anyway, long story short is that we ended up living with his parents for 4 months. A complete disaster as his mother nitpicked me and the kids to death and he was hardly ever there. It was a foreign state. I didn't know how to drive on the ice and snow and nobody would really help me learn or encourage me to learn. I felt more trapped than I had felt in my entire life. My mother in law treated me horribly and my husband just sat back and said there was nothing he could do about it. He couldn't find us another place to live. He couldn't ask his mother to be nicer. He couldn't, he couldn't, he couldn't. I snapped and told his mother off once we moved out of there place. The new job didn't work out, our house didn't sell, and I found out we were pregnant with our 4th daughter so we went back to my home state and tried to pick up the pieces. After that fiasco, I felt ready to divorce him because he showed me and the kids that he did not really care about us. My oldest daughter talks about living with her grandmother as a huge turning point. She says that our lives would be so much better if we had never lived with his parents. Really, I think that is when the huge decline began. I think that is when he stopped giving me gifts, stopped paying attention to me and the kids, and really started to check out.

Excerpt
Have you consistently walked your talk?

Up until a year or two ago, I can say that I feel like I walked my talk. I have been a really strong proponent of not nagging. I have always made it a point to try to pay attention to my husband and his needs. I was a daddy's girl growing up and my mother was very negative and nagged a lot. I swore that I would never be like her. I wouldn't nag. I wouldn't sit around and find all of my husband's pitfalls. I wouldn't try to turn the kids against their dad by continuously saying bad things about him. I made a promise to myself that I would never withhold sex from my husband. Basically, I wanted a very spiritual marriage where I was dedicated to my husband and our family and life together. To that end, I feel that I walked my talk. I could sense when I was getting off track and I would read and read and would find ways to try to get back on track. I read so many articles about how to woo your husband and get his attention. I feel like I did everything I could to walk my talk.

Excerpt
I apologize for bringing up this subject, the one of both of you stepping out of your marriage in search of other sexual partners.  Were you being true to who you are while that was taking place?  Are you still in contact with the guy? 

Don't apologize. I think I really need to sit and think about this one a bit more as I still find it very confusing. On one hand, I was being true to who I am because I was trying to find ways to please my husband as well as myself. On the other hand, I was not being true to myself at all. I am a one man kind of woman. I don't want to share my husband with anybody and I don't want to look at another man while married. I spent 15 years without being tempted to do anything. There was one incident when we were first married that I beat myself up over. It involved lots of alcohol. And, it was a red flag that I didn't see because I was too busy feeling guilty.

Yes, I am still in contact with that guy. That relationship has issues of its own. I don't even think that whatever is there with that guy is what I would call a relationship. It is just more one sided BS that I need to find a way to stop. It will never go anywhere. The guy is uncommunicative and likes to push my buttons. I have no idea why I still talk to that guy other than it feels good. 

Excerpt
So, my point is... . he might not really know who you are.  I didn't know who I was, or didn't know how to really get back there; mixed up!

Hmmm, that is definitely something to think about. In all honesty, I don't think he has ever truly known who I am. But, I was too oblivious to know it or realize it. There are so many red flags that I can see looking back. My actions and my words were very much in line for a really long time. I had done everything I could to get his attention and give him attention. I even went and read a bunch of religious materials about how to submit to your husband. One of the things that caught my attention during that reading was that a husband must be worthy of being submitted to. It was so odd for me to come to the realization of how one sided things had become when I was reading about submission of all things.

Yes, lots of dark confusing days full of mixed up stuff. I do think I need to figure out who I am and how to get back there. I don't know if I am cut out for the open stuff or not. There are too many other issues at play that totally skew things.

Thanks for asking the hard questions Phoebe!
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ydrys017
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Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic Partner
Relationship status: Married 16 yrs
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« Reply #36 on: December 30, 2014, 01:15:40 PM »

So, I have the same question as the thread title.  The Christmas holiday was a bit of a disaster, lots of verbal jabs and pokes from uBPDw and at least 3 dereg's before Christmas Day.  I realized just how bad I am at SET, partially because she sees through it and just criticizes me for it.  However, during a dereg, if my mind can only think of JADE, and I can't find anything to validate, I simply say nothing in an attempt to not make it worse.  If it gets worse, I simply leave the room and/or house.  I am then accused for not communicating, but what else are my options?  (I don't want a full on fight with her in front of the kids while she is spewing divorce threats for example... .)

Second question: after a dereg she is sometimes 'nicer' to me, let's just call it 'neutral'.  I feel like I should be capable of accepting this dynamic, but instead I feel intense anger and resentment because there is no apology, resolution or closure about what just happened.  I feel like there should be some type of conversation in order to be pleasant with her.  It's going on about 8 months of the silent and/or IDGivaSh!t treatment, any conversation melts down into a how bad our r/s is... .  How to counter the anger when things are less tense?
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