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Question: Was your relationship physical [pick 3 - read carefully]
I hit or physically intimidated my female partner
I hit or physically intimidated my male partner
~ None of the above ~
I was hit or phys. intimidated by my female partner
I was hit or phys. intimidated by my male partner
~ Neither ~
There was physical intimidation in my other romantic relationships
No physical intimidation in other romantic relationships

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Author Topic: SURVEY | Was your relationship ever physically abusive?  (Read 33397 times)
Blimblam
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« Reply #30 on: January 08, 2015, 05:39:40 AM »

My first BPDex became physically abusive but it was mainly in the form of pinching me when ever she saw a pretty girl because she was intensely jealous. We spent a year and a half in and out of of the rs a bunch of recycles. One time we were not together a pretty girl exchanged numbers with me and that weekend my ex and I recycled and the girl called at like 1am.  My ex freaked out and attacked me.   She tried to attack me onetime after that but I restrained her then she got turned on and seduced me. Lol so twisted.
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BorisAcusio
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« Reply #31 on: January 08, 2015, 05:49:19 AM »

Well, I found my ex's dating site profile on day of my grandmother's funeral. She was online, having fun while I was attendind to the ceremony. We agreed to to work things out, but something was not right so I checked her facebook log. It turned out that she was cheating on me my while I was mourning, even had to take a morning-after contraceptive pill. When I confronted her, she seemed entitled, and threatened me with false charges if I reach out to that man.

That was the only time when I lost my temper and grabbed her. You send nude pictures on christmas eve to your ex, okey, you go to porn casting behind my back. Well, that's your body. But it was just too much. Still, no harm was done.
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AnnaK
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« Reply #32 on: January 08, 2015, 06:45:30 AM »

The men don't hit women rule applies to normal circumstances where healthy people interact with each other. When BPD is involved everything normal goes out of the window. Everything! Everyone here knows that because they've been in the BPD trenches where total chaos and despair reigns.

I know.

Actually "men don't hit women" applies to the situations when the man is big and strong and the woman is small and weak.

Some guys (newcomer boxers) carry is as far as refusing to hit me in the ring when we have mixed-gender fights (!)
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« Reply #33 on: January 08, 2015, 07:02:11 AM »

AnnaK,

We're talking about domestic situations and physical abusive - not sport.  Being cool (click to insert in post)

What is happening in your home?

Skip
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« Reply #34 on: January 08, 2015, 08:33:14 AM »

Verbal, emotion and mental, absolutely... .
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AnnaK
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« Reply #35 on: January 08, 2015, 08:54:15 AM »

AnnaK,

We're talking about domestic situations and physical abusive - not sport.  Being cool (click to insert in post)

What is happening in your home?

Skip

Right now I am in Spain. But yes, he hit me outside the ring without my consent, and I did the same. He hit me before I hit him too.

He is physically unable to beat me up, but he tried before. He is physically unable because I detected his red flags and took measures before moving in with him (started martial arts).

In fact, by learning martial arts I managed to convert the whole ugly situation of physical abuse into kind of a game and competition, so we managed to avoid things turning ugly.

Nevermind, if that does not count, let's remove my vote.

But I swear, the cycle was there, and the cycle was unfolding the ugliest way possible, it started from verbal abuse, "you provoke me by talking back" etc. etc., but I eventually managed to entirely mess up the cycle and gain his respect IN FIGHTING.
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ogopogodude
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« Reply #36 on: January 08, 2015, 09:18:42 AM »

Verbal, emotion and mental, absolutely... .

ditto... .

(Exept  I add physical at times.  I would go into "turtle" mode/a.k.a. fetal position  just to be left alone. I would never hit her back. There was no point if I did. Besides, I am 210 ibs and she is 101 ibs, tops. If I ever struck her I would be the bad guy.  I did, however, hold her down and then called 911.  I would try to leave the house but she would take the keys to the cars and keep them in her hand in order for me to be the continued victim of her abuse.  My spouse tried everything to get me to be physical back at her, name-calling,  calling me a wimp, "be a man", blah blah blah and then striking me over and over again with her fist, chasing me around with a knife, throwing things at me, etc.  I never gave in. I just videotaped with my phone if I could.  Hitting back a BPD person is what they WANT so I never gave her the satisfaction)
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AnnaK
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« Reply #37 on: January 08, 2015, 09:20:33 AM »

AnnaK,

We're talking about domestic situations and physical abusive - not sport.  Being cool (click to insert in post)

What is happening in your home?

Skip

Moreover, by home-boxing we seem to have addressed some of his childhood memories (drunk father beating family), because initially he was boasting to his friends about... .yeah, beating me... .with gloves... .but he was talking like "I beat her, mind you!"

Now he seems to have processed it, because he has much less mixed emotions about... .well, beating me Smiling (click to insert in post)

We kinda contained it.
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Targeted
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« Reply #38 on: January 08, 2015, 10:11:58 AM »

Real men don't hit women.  Period.  Surprised this is even being discussed.

I agree that no man should ever lay a hand on a woman, but I do think it is a good topic for discussion in the right context. Here is my story as it pertains to this subject,

I consider being on a dating site is cheating, not to mention she has already physically cheated on me before, I would constantly be accused of cheating and every time I was accused I would find her on her dating site, I am trying to save and salvage a relationship so this is very stressful,  now add in all the other BPD traits, The push pull dynamic, unobtainable unreachable relationship requests, splitting, devaluation, Constant blaming, and everything else, then roll in the FOG.  You begin to live daily life at a abnormally high stress level to start with, this may not be a pretty analogy but if a human being was ever going to be driven to laying their hands on someone else it takes a lot of stress and aggravation and hurt and confusion and other negative feelings to get there. Male or female, it is not gender biased.

now you are living your everyday lives at a abnormally high capacity of stress and negative feelings to start off each day that brings you to your breaking point, what stops the actual act from happening is that we are rational and know that it is wrong, A good upbringing taught us that, we have good morals, we have self-control, Control of impulses, we understand our actions have consequences, and so much more that they lack, on the very last day I was with my ex I was still doing all the chores of daily life for her while being devalued and criticised and accused of things such as cheating, only to find out later that evening while I was doing all of these chores she was on two dating sites talking to men even that very night while I was at her house! Now I have reached my boiling point, I am at 100% capacity of stress, frustration and anger. My reaction was to just be done and leave, at the foot of the bed there is not enough room for two people to pass each other so when I went to leave she blocked me there, I went to crawl over the bed and she blocked me there and started screaming for me not to leave, I stood back up to walk out and she blocked me again screaming talk to me talk to me! I never felt like I wanted to hit her at any point but what scared me is that I was so frustrated and angry and hurt and wanting to leave I FELT like grabbing her by the wrists or arms and moving her out of my way so I could leave. Even that would be wrong to me so I froze. In a split second I recognized my FEELING, rationalised the situation, knew the consequences processed it and kept my values and made a decision. I deescalated That situation by taking the most peaceful route out of it by saying ok let's just go to sleep and talk in the morning, IM too upset to discuss it now.  I did not want to give in to her and stay that night but the alternative would have been escalating the situation, she brought me to a level of anger, hurt and frustration I never want to see again and I knew it, so I got up for work and left with my values of never laying a hand on a woman fully intact! I told her the next day that because of this I am not coming back unless she gets some help so this never happens again.  And I have not seen her in person since,  she did bring me to that point but I am in control of MY actions.
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Mr Hollande
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« Reply #39 on: January 08, 2015, 11:31:13 AM »

The men don't hit women rule applies to normal circumstances where healthy people interact with each other. When BPD is involved everything normal goes out of the window.

How does this work exactly?  We live by the "don't hit women rule" except when we encounter a really frustrating women who we can't control? Does the don't shoot rule go out the window too?  Being cool (click to insert in post)

Hitting a partner is not about self defense. Read the psychology behind it.  It's about domination and control.

We are out of the relationships now.  So now is the time to do the personal inventory and see what is going on with us. I think it is fair to say that if we still find ourselves justifying why we hit our partner - we believe that it is the way to handle frustration.

I live by the don't hit anyone unless they absolutely seek it themselves. Through physical attack or provocation. I have no problem taking someone out who seeks it. That doesn't included women for several reasons but on 2 extreme occasions with my 2 BPD ex's it happened. I don't boast about it and I am not proud of it but given the circumstances I am not ashamed of it either. I forgive myself for those two momentary losses of reason and self control. What I don't forgive is them for pushing me to those extremes. I know the stigma society attaches to it and while that's something I will have to live with it's not something I agree with.

Shooting? Gun laws are very restrictive in Europe so I know nothing about shooting people.

I never said it was self defense. I was not out to dominate or control my ex. The first time was retaliation over provocation. Yes, I walked right into that one. On the second it was an act of hurting so bad the pain had nowhere left to go anymore. I lost that control of myself and I wish it hadn't happened. It did and like I said above, I forgive myself for it.

Handle frustration? Are you having a laugh? It was a handle on nothing. It was an ugly outburst after 5 years of pain, betrayal, sacrifice, fear, abuse, fatigue, futility, emotional distress and a hundred other things associated with the war we have all been through. You say it as if it was planned or something. "Oh today I feel a little frustrated so I'll apply a bit of DV on my partner". Was that it you reckon?
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« Reply #40 on: January 08, 2015, 12:24:47 PM »

You say it as if it was planned or something. "Oh today I feel a little frustrated so I'll apply a bit of DV on my partner". Was that it you reckon?

'Hollande, you know that domestic violence is a reaction, not a plan.  And you know that dominance and control via power and intimidation is part of a style. The hitting is just one aspect of that style. So, no, that is not what the experts "reckon".

"In my opinion, hitters are not cold, but more likely seething with distressing emotions and out of control," said Dr. Ola Barnett, a researcher at Pepperdine University in Malibu, Calif. "They may well have a limited conscience."

Dr. Barnett said batterers often feel justified in battering because they were reared in an environment -- whether a family or neighborhood -- where violence was accepted as a proper method for solving problems or enforcing the rules. Between 40% and 70% of batterers in clinical samples have been exposed to abuse in childhood.

"As adults they become emotionally dependent upon a wife and expect her to be responsible for making them happy. When she cannot make them happy, she is "letting them down." says Dr. Barnett. "They do not know how to achieve happiness on their own."

A common rationale expressed in group therapy is something like this: "So, what option did I have? I had to hit her. She deserved it." I was provoked.

"Although wives of batterers may be provocative, they do not provoke their husband's abuse in reality," Dr. Barnett said.  


The first time was retaliation over provocation. Yes, I walked right into that one. On the second it was an act of hurting so bad the pain had nowhere left to go anymore. I lost that control of myself... .

I don't boast about it and I am not proud of it but given the circumstances I am not ashamed of it either. I forgive myself for those two momentary losses of reason and self control. What I don't forgive is them for pushing me to those extremes. I know the stigma society attaches to it and while that's something I will have to live with it's not something I agree with.

So what she (they) did on those days is not forgivable.  But hitting them is.

What was the specific event that caused you to get physical with each women?
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Mr Hollande
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« Reply #41 on: January 08, 2015, 12:55:33 PM »

Dr. Barnett said batterers often... .

And there is that stigma again. "Batterer". While Dr. Barnett is entitled to his opinion based on his research I am entitled to disagree with me and others being written off as simply "batterers". Nice of Ola to cover some bases with "They may well have a limited conscience.". How very empathic of him.

Between 40% and 70% of batterers in clinical samples have been exposed to abuse in childhood.

Add me to the between 60% to 30% then.

So what she (they) did on those days is not forgivable.

A years abuse from One and 5 years of mind games, betrayal, humiliation and the rest from Two is unforgivable to me. The smear campaign and legal circus from One following the slap she got after, a year post our relationship, pressing her t#ts against me while whispering in my ear how attractive I was and then screaming in my face that I should just die for telling her to f#ck off I will never forgive. Illness or no illness I have no forgiveness in my heart for her tricks. The rage from Two that lead to me hitting her I can forgive but not the games that went on during and after the final six month period. I certainly won't forgive how she laughed at me over the phone while declaring that she was now with my replacement because she loved him and how I felt didn't matter to her. I will not forgive how when I was more or less gasping for air from the shock she uttered the words "I think your level here is rather low" and put the phone down. I will not forgive them!

But yes, I can forgive myself for my weakness and loss of self control. I will not punish myself for it. The years spent with those two women and the turmoil in their wake is more than punishment enough. What I needed and need is to recover, not spank myself further.

What was the event that caused you to get physical with each women?

Answered above.

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« Reply #42 on: January 08, 2015, 02:22:16 PM »

This whole gender distinction is ridiculous, we all know that women these days can be the abuser just as much as men can be and that includes physical abuse.

So as men we should just take it and for a woman it's ok to defend herself. I am a man and I was beaten up, bitten, kicked at several occasions and one time I snapped and retaliated yes. It might be wrong but just as much as it would be for a woman to retaliate then. Even the police didn't blame me, they could clearly see what was going on and that she wasn't the poor female being abused... .

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« Reply #43 on: January 08, 2015, 02:39:51 PM »

Not so fast there Bunnyrabit! According to Dr. Ola Barnett you are a "batterer" who adheres to a "common rationale" of having no option but hitting her and she deserved it because you were provoked. Although you weren't provoked because "wives of batterers may be provocative, they do not provoke their husband's abuse in reality". There is a further, albeit to a lesser degree, oxymoron that although you are not a cold person you have a limited conscience.

You are not a man, lover, friend, colleague or a professional. You have no interests, no feelings and you make no contribution to society or humanity. You are not a human being at all. You are a "batterer". A "batterer" who has never been provoked. As am I. As am several others on this forum who like us lost themselves in a destructive relationship. Our experiences and our pain does not matter because we are mere "batterers". By hitting those who have hurt us the most we do not matter anymore.

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« Reply #44 on: January 08, 2015, 02:44:50 PM »

I am a man and I was beaten up, bitten, kicked at several occasions and one time I snapped and retaliated yes.

I'm not going to pretend to understand getting to the level of physical violence.  My guy called me "delusional" once and I was ready to end it.

I don't want this to sound like a judgment, because it isn't... . I'm sincerely curious as to why you'd stick around in an environment where beating and biting and getting kicked on several occasions seemed like a more favorable option than leaving the scene before it ever got to that level, or ending the relationship sooner?

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« Reply #45 on: January 08, 2015, 02:48:20 PM »

I am a man and I was beaten up, bitten, kicked at several occasions and one time I snapped and retaliated yes.

I'm not going to pretend to understand getting to the level of physical violence.  My guy called me "delusional" once and I was ready to end it.

I don't want this to sound like a judgment, because it isn't... . I'm sincerely curious as to why you'd stick around in an environment where beating and biting and getting kicked on several occasions seemed like a more favorable option than leaving the scene before it ever got to that level, or ending the relationship sooner?

Why did all of us here stick around in spite of the mind games, rage, devaluation, infidelity, abuse (all kinds) and everything else? Why is tolerating physical abuse different, worse or better than tolerating mental abuse? Why did we do it is the big question on which this whole forum pivots.
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« Reply #46 on: January 08, 2015, 02:58:17 PM »

I am a man and I was beaten up, bitten, kicked at several occasions and one time I snapped and retaliated yes.

I'm not going to pretend to understand getting to the level of physical violence.  My guy called me "delusional" once and I was ready to end it.

I don't want this to sound like a judgment, because it isn't... . I'm sincerely curious as to why you'd stick around in an environment where beating and biting and getting kicked on several occasions seemed like a more favorable option than leaving the scene before it ever got to that level, or ending the relationship sooner?

Why did all of us here stick around in spite of the mind games, rage, devaluation, infidelity, abuse (all kinds) and everything else? Why is tolerating physical abuse different, worse or better than tolerating mental abuse? Why did we do it is the big question on which this whole forum pivots.

straight up? Fear of being alone, trauma bond (divorce), that is why I put up with it.
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« Reply #47 on: January 08, 2015, 03:01:05 PM »

I am a man and I was beaten up, bitten, kicked at several occasions and one time I snapped and retaliated yes.

I'm not going to pretend to understand getting to the level of physical violence.  My guy called me "delusional" once and I was ready to end it.

I don't want this to sound like a judgment, because it isn't... . I'm sincerely curious as to why you'd stick around in an environment where beating and biting and getting kicked on several occasions seemed like a more favorable option than leaving the scene before it ever got to that level, or ending the relationship sooner?

Why did all of us here stick around in spite of the mind games, rage, devaluation, infidelity, abuse (all kinds) and everything else? Why is tolerating physical abuse different, worse or better than tolerating mental abuse? Why did we do it is the big question on which this whole forum pivots.

In my experience the physical abuse was less harmfull than the other forms of abuse.
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« Reply #48 on: January 08, 2015, 03:02:05 PM »

Fear of being alone

Guilty your Honour!
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« Reply #49 on: January 08, 2015, 03:03:44 PM »

I am a man and I was beaten up, bitten, kicked at several occasions and one time I snapped and retaliated yes.

I'm not going to pretend to understand getting to the level of physical violence.  My guy called me "delusional" once and I was ready to end it.

I don't want this to sound like a judgment, because it isn't... . I'm sincerely curious as to why you'd stick around in an environment where beating and biting and getting kicked on several occasions seemed like a more favorable option than leaving the scene before it ever got to that level, or ending the relationship sooner?

Why did all of us here stick around in spite of the mind games, rage, devaluation, infidelity, abuse (all kinds) and everything else? Why is tolerating physical abuse different, worse or better than tolerating mental abuse? Why did we do it is the big question on which this whole forum pivots.

straight up? Fear of being alone, trauma bond (divorce), that is why I put up with it.

Thank you, Deeno and Mr Hollande (and Blimblam!).  So, would you say that the fear of being alone was greater than ending an unsatisfying abusive relationship?

What's helped you the most to move beyond that fear?
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« Reply #50 on: January 08, 2015, 03:08:43 PM »

I am a man and I was beaten up, bitten, kicked at several occasions and one time I snapped and retaliated yes.

I'm not going to pretend to understand getting to the level of physical violence.  My guy called me "delusional" once and I was ready to end it.

I don't want this to sound like a judgment, because it isn't... . I'm sincerely curious as to why you'd stick around in an environment where beating and biting and getting kicked on several occasions seemed like a more favorable option than leaving the scene before it ever got to that level, or ending the relationship sooner?

FOG, co-dependency, drama addiction,... .take your pick, it wasn't coming from a healthy place, I can see that now. The physical abuse was the least damaging to me, I can take some physical pain, it's no biggie compared to the emotional pain of being betrayed, devalued, humiliated, abandoned, replaced... .

Important thing is I'm on the leaving board now, willing to do the work. I'm NC for 3 months now, I cut all ties and it feels great to be slowly coming back to my senses.
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« Reply #51 on: January 08, 2015, 03:14:57 PM »

In my experience the physical abuse was less harmfull than the other forms of abuse.

I've had my ass kicked a few times and I concur, it hurt way less than the stuff my two BPD's did to me. Every injury sustained from beatings I've taken have long passed while their violence on my soul haunts me.  

Some people in this thread talk about a fair fight. Of course my ex's didn't have much resistance to offer when I hit them. But when they set their mind demons on me it was the emotional equivalent of being pounced on by a company of marines who when I was on the ground bleeding kept going with ridicule and kicking me when I tried to get up. In terms of mental violence it was f#cking Abu Ghraib.

Not a fair fight at all. But hey, at least they aren't "batterers". Or what say you, Dr. Ola?
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« Reply #52 on: January 08, 2015, 03:23:05 PM »

Thank you, Deeno and Mr Hollande (and Blimblam!).  So, would you say that the fear of being alone was greater than ending an unsatisfying abusive relationship?

What's helped you the most to move beyond that fear?

That and the hope, or illusion rather, that things would get better.

The biggest help I got was her already mentioned parting words on the phone. Interesting that. Never thought of that one before. And it's so simple.  Is this where I join the ranks of some of the people I've had such trouble understanding before? The ones who express gratitude towards their ex's? Maybe not, but her booting me out of our relationship in the callous way she did certainly played a major part in setting me on the road from the fear of being alone. You see once out there in the cold I had no choice but to start walking.

Thanks Phoebe.
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« Reply #53 on: January 08, 2015, 03:40:24 PM »

Dr. Barnett said batterers often... .

And there is that stigma again. "Batterer".

That's not stigma. That's the term used for one that commits battery. Yes, I get that you don't make a regular habit out of it. But it you murdered someone just one time, you would be a murderer. If you steal, it doesn't matter how often you do it, you're a thief. That's unfortunately the label you get when you strike someone.

Hollande, I do understand feeling so angry that you lose your mind for a while. I understand doing things in anger that you later regret. I've had a few of those moments in my life. So please understand that while I don't think it's okay, I don't think this makes you a bad person. I don't think you should be completely defined by those two incidents. But we need to realize though that when we let ourselves get to that point, and it's not healthy, nor is it acceptable. You don't get to hit someone because they yell at you, or hurt your feelings. That's not how adults handle themselves.

I forgive myself for those two momentary losses of reason and self control. What I don't forgive is them for pushing me to those extremes.

This is what seems to be a bit contradictory to me. You say you take responsibility for your poor choices, but then it seems like you're still blaming your exes. Yes, our exes did things to hurt us. We allowed ourselves to be pushed. That choice is on us. And even more importantly, we never HAVE to hit someone. That's our choice as well. Even if it's reactionary and we don't consciously think about it before hand, we have to learn to walk away before it reaches that point. If you aren't willing to accept responsibility for your own choices, how are you going to avoid those bad choices in the future?

I'm going to be frank, you come across as an angry dude on here. And I'm not trying to say that you have no right to be angry at your exes; you do. That's just what I get from the tone of a lot of your posts. I'm not trying to make accusations, I just don't know you outside of what you write  on here, but do you think that you have issues with anger?
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« Reply #54 on: January 08, 2015, 03:41:26 PM »

I am a man and I was beaten up, bitten, kicked at several occasions and one time I snapped and retaliated yes.

I'm not going to pretend to understand getting to the level of physical violence.  My guy called me "delusional" once and I was ready to end it.

I don't want this to sound like a judgment, because it isn't... . I'm sincerely curious as to why you'd stick around in an environment where beating and biting and getting kicked on several occasions seemed like a more favorable option than leaving the scene before it ever got to that level, or ending the relationship sooner?

Why did all of us here stick around in spite of the mind games, rage, devaluation, infidelity, abuse (all kinds) and everything else? Why is tolerating physical abuse different, worse or better than tolerating mental abuse? Why did we do it is the big question on which this whole forum pivots.

straight up? Fear of being alone, trauma bond (divorce), that is why I put up with it.

Thank you, Deeno and Mr Hollande (and Blimblam!).  So, would you say that the fear of being alone was greater than ending an unsatisfying abusive relationship?

What's helped you the most to move beyond that fear?



In my case, yes. So I did whatever I could to not make her leave until I was used up and depleted. Hair thining, cringe when i heard her ringtone or text, mine field walking, all that. Then I was dumped. I was a mess. My friends helped me and then my T. They showed me that it was ok to be alone. I knew it was ok because Im an only child so I was used to it. Just had to revisit that skill set. Im still nowhere near normalcy, but I realize that no matter what I did, I would have been let go. Shes hopeless, Im not.
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« Reply #55 on: January 08, 2015, 04:24:49 PM »

So as men we should just take it and for a woman it's ok to defend herself. I am a man and I was beaten up, bitten, kicked at several occasions and one time I snapped and retaliated yes. It might be wrong but just as much as it would be for a woman to retaliate then. Even the police didn't blame me, they could clearly see what was going on and that she wasn't the poor female being abused... .

As far as I can tell, nobody has implied that anyone should just allow themselves to be physically attacked, male or female. We all have the right to defend ourselves, but if someone is assaulting you, the first thing you should try and do is remove yourself from the situation, and call the cops. Man or woman.

Physical violence should be a last resort, but I can understand if that's your only way to defend yourself. Hitting someone because they've hurt your feelings, or said something you don't like, or because you're mad, isn't okay. Ever. That's how a child acts.

In my experience the physical abuse was less harmfull than the other forms of abuse.

I have friends that work at the local Domestic Violence Crisis Center, and as they have explained it, the worst part of physical abuse is often the psychological damage that it causes.
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« Reply #56 on: January 08, 2015, 04:27:50 PM »

Dr. Barnett said batterers often... .

And there is that stigma again. "Batterer".

That's not stigma. That's the term used for one that commits battery. Yes, I get that you don't make a regular habit out of it. But it you murdered someone just one time, you would be a murderer. If you steal, it doesn't matter how often you do it, you're a thief. That's unfortunately the label you get when you strike someone.

Murder and hitting someone. Quite a leap in severity between the two in my opinion. That's the label, the stigma, that society attaches for what I have done, yes. I know that. I still don't agree with it.

Hollande, I do understand feeling so angry that you lose your mind for a while. I understand doing things in anger that you later regret. I've had a few of those moments in my life. So please understand that while I don't think it's okay, I don't think this makes you a bad person. I don't think you should be completely defined by those two incidents.

But we need to realize though that when we let ourselves get to that point, and it's not healthy, nor is it acceptable. You don't get to hit someone because they yell at you, or hurt your feelings. That's not how adults handle themselves.

Thank you for not defining me as a "batterer".

I agree with the second paragraph and I haven't said anywhere here that it's healthy, acceptable or mature. What I HAVE said is that the other side plays their part as well. I didn't get out of bed one day and decide to take a swing at the person I loved. Something happened that lead to that. While I am to blame for my part a second person was also involved. A mentally ill person with a lifetime specialising in abuse. It wasn't just that day that lead to me hitting her. There was 5 years of various actions and episodes prior to that fateful day. Actions and episodes I find it very hard to forgive. I forgive myself for breaking but I don't forgive them for breaking me. Does that make it clearer?

I forgive myself for those two momentary losses of reason and self control. What I don't forgive is them for pushing me to those extremes.

This is what seems to be a bit contradictory to me. You say you take responsibility for your poor choices, but then it seems like you're still blaming your exes. Yes, our exes did things to hurt us. We allowed ourselves to be pushed. That choice is on us. And even more importantly, we never HAVE to hit someone. That's our choice as well. Even if it's reactionary and we don't consciously think about it before hand, we have to learn to walk away before it reaches that point. If you aren't willing to accept responsibility for your own choices, how are you going to avoid those bad choices in the future?

When I slapped the first BPD I was stupid because I was in a public place. With more sense (and less alcohol, maybe) I would have left the premises and that would have been the end of it. Lesson learned there.

With the second one it was more difficult. We were in my house and I had nowhere to go. I could maybe have thrown her out but we don't even live in the same country so with nowhere for her to go that may have escalated an already bad situation. Prior to getting in the house she stood outside banging on the window and screaming like a lunatic. Before this I had walked out of the pub we were in because she was raging at me. Whatever I said just triggered her more and more so I removed myself from the situation. I headed home. Half way there I turned and went back to get her. The road from the pub to mine is lethal after dark and I felt I couldn't leave her to her own devices. Especially not when drunk. When I found her she hurled further abuse at me so I left and went home. I took one of the covers from the bed and went to sleep on the sofa. If she was going to return she could have the bed but I wasn't sure she would. I imagined her finding some loser guy at the pub and sleeping with him. Then she came and banged on the window. I opened the door and she stood outside screaming at me. I begged her to come inside and after some more verbal abuse she did. She sat on the sofa and laid into me for having moved my bedding there. She saw the computer was on and shouted at me that I was chatting up other women and it went on and on. I snapped. Did I have a choice? Sure I could have left the house and slept God knows where. I know no one where I live and I was at the end of my tether. All my efforts to get us back together and make everything right, because we WERE right for each other, (right?) came crumbling down like before but even worse this time. So yes I lost it.

I accept responsibility but I don't feel particularly sorry for her. Morally she played her part as well. I know the law couldn't give a rats ass about that but this is not a trial so it doesn't matter. We are discussing ethics and lessons learned here. So no and no again, I do not feel ashamed for what I did. I forgive myself for breaking under circumstances that were exceptional. What have I learned to avoid bad choices in the future? I posted a while back about a date I went on with a woman who was at best unhinged and at worst possibly even crazier than my BPD ex. Half an hour in I had counted enough red flags to get up and leave. I felt good about that. I am not perfect but I did well that night. I've come a long way since May last year.



I'm going to be frank, you come across as an angry dude on here. And I'm not trying to say that you have no right to be angry at your exes; you do. That's just what I get from the tone of a lot of your posts. I'm not trying to make accusations, I just don't know you outside of what you write  on here, but do you think that you have issues with anger?


I am a fiery and intense person. Issues with anger? Angry reactions have landed me in trouble on some occasions. They have also saved me a few times.

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« Reply #57 on: January 08, 2015, 04:40:29 PM »

I have friends that work at the local Domestic Violence Crisis Center, and as they have explained it, the worst part of physical abuse is often the psychological damage that it causes.

That's interesting. Are they the kind of people who see both sides to the events or is it all about the woman who's taken a hiding? If so I don't think I agree with their way of seeing it. It's very one dimensional. Is it out of order to suggest there's often more than one victim in an abusive relationship?
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« Reply #58 on: January 08, 2015, 04:46:34 PM »

Domestic shelters don't mediate or judge - they help people in dangerous situations get to safety.
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« Reply #59 on: January 08, 2015, 05:02:42 PM »

I have friends that work at the local Domestic Violence Crisis Center, and as they have explained it, the worst part of physical abuse is often the psychological damage that it causes.

That's interesting. Are they the kind of people who see both sides to the events or is it all about the woman who's taken a hiding? If so I don't think I agree with their way of seeing it. It's very one dimensional. Is it out of order to suggest there's often more than one victim in an abusive relationship?

They are the kind of people that help those that need it. They aren't there to take sides in an argument.
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