Advice needed

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

Hi All,

I'm looking for advice that I probably already know. So, just writing here to get it out... .

I broke up with my ex 3 years ago. She has constantly tried to remain in contact and I have tried my best to be NC but have always given in (my bad). Anyhow, we recently reconnected and are now in each others lives again. Since being in contact with her, I have been torn up inside. I still love her (or something that resembles love... .I don't know). She claims to still love me although I'm really not sure what those words mean to me.

The last interaction we had I wanted to ask her what she thought we were doing. We had been in contact again almost daily for about 4 months. We went to New York together for a weekend (platonic) and spent several days together in the town where she lives. She invited me on a trip next week with a group of her friends to go snowshoeing. I wanted to have a quick touch base with her about the direction she wanted to go in (friends, acquaintances, work colleagues, relationship). She freaked out on me. Told me she was about to run away because I was pushing so hard (I wasn't, just asking her for a conversation to see where she was at because it was confusing to me). Anyhow, we ended up speaking after I told her that we were headed for a ___show unless we talked. That conversation was very odd. She told me she needed time to work in therapy to get better. That we certainly couldn't be together this year and probably not next year either. But that she didn't want to rule out a relationship at that point unless we weren't single then. I told her that didn't work for me. She then sent me an email telling me that she didn't want to loose me, that she did indeed still love me very much and that she was scared of loosing me. At the same time, she told me that she was struggling to survive and loosing me in any capacity would drive her to brink.

Anyhow... .I'm super torn up now. I would love to be with her if she was healthy. But, she isn't. That is super clear to me. I don't mind being friends if that is all she wants but don't want to be all close. I told her what my boundaries where if we were to be friends (we can talk on the phone every now and again, grab lunch when I'm in town). I told her that I reserved the kind of intimacy we have been sharing for a partner and that even if I didn't have a partner right now, that was still something that was sacred to me and didn't want to spend so much time unless we were investing in something other than just 'hanging out'. She said OK. Then two days later she invites me on this long weekend trip. Ack. And then she tells me it is a good thing we didn't live in the same city otherwise we would be spending all our free time together (probably true).

Ug. But as this goes on, I'm feeling more and more ill about the whole thing. She still has a hold on me. She is still just as nutters as ever (if not more so). She's angry. She just talks about herself all the time. She is super jealous of my life and success and scolded me for talking about it too much (I didn't think I was... .I was just telling her about my life and what was going on after listening to her for hours about hers).

Anyhow, I'm starting to feel very ill about the whole thing. I told her I was OK with being friends but I'm starting to feel like I am not. I don't know why I keep trying to make something work with her. I didn't particularily enjoy spending time with her. There were some moments that were great. Some that we just awkward. And other moments that were just kind of terrible (felt like running away).

I don't know what to do. I feel like I'm a ropped in again. She laid the guilt on pretty thick about how devastating it would be if I couldn't be her friend. And I'm stuck in that now. She also dangles this carrot of us being together again at the same time. Then she has these moments of clarity where she tells me that she needs to get healthy first before being with anyone. The thing is, I don't trust anything that she says. If I believed any of these to be true, I would be OK. I just hate not knowing what's going on and she doesn't seem capable of handling any kind of real conversation.

Ok. I know what you are all going to say. But please, say it anyways! I'm trying to tell myself the same thing and it goes something like this:

Willy, why are you stuck on someone who isn't healthy, who you don't particularily enjoy being around, who makes you unhappy, who guilts you into a weird relationship, who you are mostly terrified of, who you don't think would make a good mother or partner, and someone who you are just going to end up being a caretaker of? Why don't you just find someone who isn't mentally ill?

The answer to that question... .oh man... .if I only knew... .

Thanks all. Just venting I suppose.

[willy45]

Hi All,

I'm looking for advice that I probably already know. So, just writing here to get it out... .

I broke up with my ex 3 years ago. She has constantly tried to remain in contact and I have tried my best to be NC but have always given in (my bad). Anyhow, we recently reconnected and are now in each others lives again. Since being in contact with her, I have been torn up inside. I still love her (or something that resembles love... .I don't know). She claims to still love me although I'm really not sure what those words mean to me.

The last interaction we had I wanted to ask her what she thought we were doing. We had been in contact again almost daily for about 4 months. We went to New York together for a weekend (platonic) and spent several days together in the town where she lives. She invited me on a trip next week with a group of her friends to go snowshoeing. I wanted to have a quick touch base with her about the direction she wanted to go in (friends, acquaintances, work colleagues, relationship). She freaked out on me. Told me she was about to run away because I was pushing so hard (I wasn't, just asking her for a conversation to see where she was at because it was confusing to me). Anyhow, we ended up speaking after I told her that we were headed for a ___show unless we talked. That conversation was very odd. She told me she needed time to work in therapy to get better. That we certainly couldn't be together this year and probably not next year either. But that she didn't want to rule out a relationship at that point unless we weren't single then. I told her that didn't work for me. She then sent me an email telling me that she didn't want to loose me, that she did indeed still love me very much and that she was scared of loosing me. At the same time, she told me that she was struggling to survive and loosing me in any capacity would drive her to brink.

Anyhow... .I'm super torn up now. I would love to be with her if she was healthy. But, she isn't. That is super clear to me. I don't mind being friends if that is all she wants but don't want to be all close. I told her what my boundaries where if we were to be friends (we can talk on the phone every now and again, grab lunch when I'm in town). I told her that I reserved the kind of intimacy we have been sharing for a partner and that even if I didn't have a partner right now, that was still something that was sacred to me and didn't want to spend so much time unless we were investing in something other than just 'hanging out'. She said OK. Then two days later she invites me on this long weekend trip. Ack. And then she tells me it is a good thing we didn't live in the same city otherwise we would be spending all our free time together (probably true).

Ug. But as this goes on, I'm feeling more and more ill about the whole thing. She still has a hold on me. She is still just as nutters as ever (if not more so). She's angry. She just talks about herself all the time. She is super jealous of my life and success and scolded me for talking about it too much (I didn't think I was... .I was just telling her about my life and what was going on after listening to her for hours about hers).

Anyhow, I'm starting to feel very ill about the whole thing. I told her I was OK with being friends but I'm starting to feel like I am not. I don't know why I keep trying to make something work with her. I didn't particularily enjoy spending time with her. There were some moments that were great. Some that we just awkward. And other moments that were just kind of terrible (felt like running away).

I don't know what to do. I feel like I'm a ropped in again. She laid the guilt on pretty thick about how devastating it would be if I couldn't be her friend. And I'm stuck in that now. She also dangles this carrot of us being together again at the same time. Then she has these moments of clarity where she tells me that she needs to get healthy first before being with anyone. The thing is, I don't trust anything that she says. If I believed any of these to be true, I would be OK. I just hate not knowing what's going on and she doesn't seem capable of handling any kind of real conversation.

Ok. I know what you are all going to say. But please, say it anyways! I'm trying to tell myself the same thing and it goes something like this:

Willy, why are you stuck on someone who isn't healthy, who you don't particularily enjoy being around, who makes you unhappy, who guilts you into a weird relationship, who you are mostly terrified of, who you don't think would make a good mother or partner, and someone who you are just going to end up being a caretaker of? Why don't you just find someone who isn't mentally ill?

The answer to that question... .oh man... .if I only knew... .

Thanks all. Just venting I suppose.

[Suzn]

Will please ask yourself what it is you need right now. What is missing?

Leave her out of your answer.

[Infared]

Will please ask yourself what it is you need right now. What is missing?

Leave her out of your answer.

Willie, your situation has to do with you. Not her. She sounds like she is very consistent at who she is.

Choosing to stay in that situation sounds like choosing personal torture.

Suzn has the right question: What do you need.?

Will you get what you need in this "relationship"?

If this person is in you life will this person allow you to get what you need in a love relationship with someone else?

My heart goes out to you... .I have been in your shoes, trying to make it work, in twisted agony and in the end mine just ran off with someone that she was thinking would work better for her. I was not even considered. I was just there to fill the space  as someone she could control until a better "opportunity" presented itself.

[HappyNihilist]

willy, I'm sorry you're having a stressful time. I like Suzn's question-- what do you need right now?

Ok. I know what you are all going to say. But please, say it anyways! I'm trying to tell myself the same thing and it goes something like this:

Willy, why are you stuck on someone who isn't healthy, who you don't particularily enjoy being around, who makes you unhappy, who guilts you into a weird relationship, who you are mostly terrified of, who you don't think would make a good mother or partner, and someone who you are just going to end up being a caretaker of? Why don't you just find someone who isn't mentally ill?

The answer to that question... .oh man... .if I only knew... .

The answer to that question is a difficult (often painful) one to discover, but only you hold that answer. 

[going places]

What is Love?

I mean, real, for real, Love?

Love IS

Patient, Kind, Does NOT envy, boast; is NOT proud, does not dishonor others, NOT self-seeking, NOT easily angered, keeps no record of wrongs. Does NOT delight in evil but rejoices in Truth.

Love ALWAYS protects, trusts, hopes and perseveres.

Love, never, fails.

[Infared]

What is Love?

I mean, real, for real, Love?

Love IS

Patient, Kind, Does NOT envy, boast; is NOT proud, does not dishonor others, NOT self-seeking, NOT easily angered, keeps no record of wrongs. Does NOT delight in evil but rejoices in Truth.

Love ALWAYS protects, trusts, hopes and perseveres.

Love, never, fails.

exactly

[Caredverymuch]

Hi All,

I'm looking for advice that I probably already know. So, just writing here to get it out... .

I broke up with my ex 3 years ago. She has constantly tried to remain in contact and I have tried my best to be NC but have always given in (my bad). Anyhow, we recently reconnected and are now in each others lives again. Since being in contact with her, I have been torn up inside. I still love her (or something that resembles love... .I don't know). She claims to still love me although I'm really not sure what those words mean to me.

The last interaction we had I wanted to ask her what she thought we were doing. We had been in contact again almost daily for about 4 months. We went to New York together for a weekend (platonic) and spent several days together in the town where she lives. She invited me on a trip next week with a group of her friends to go snowshoeing. I wanted to have a quick touch base with her about the direction she wanted to go in (friends, acquaintances, work colleagues, relationship). She freaked out on me. Told me she was about to run away because I was pushing so hard (I wasn't, just asking her for a conversation to see where she was at because it was confusing to me). Anyhow, we ended up speaking after I told her that we were headed for a ___show unless we talked. That conversation was very odd. She told me she needed time to work in therapy to get better. That we certainly couldn't be together this year and probably not next year either. But that she didn't want to rule out a relationship at that point unless we weren't single then. I told her that didn't work for me. She then sent me an email telling me that she didn't want to loose me, that she did indeed still love me very much and that she was scared of loosing me. At the same time, she told me that she was struggling to survive and loosing me in any capacity would drive her to brink.

Anyhow... .I'm super torn up now. I would love to be with her if she was healthy. But, she isn't. That is super clear to me. I don't mind being friends if that is all she wants but don't want to be all close. I told her what my boundaries where if we were to be friends (we can talk on the phone every now and again, grab lunch when I'm in town). I told her that I reserved the kind of intimacy we have been sharing for a partner and that even if I didn't have a partner right now, that was still something that was sacred to me and didn't want to spend so much time unless we were investing in something other than just 'hanging out'. She said OK. Then two days later she invites me on this long weekend trip. Ack. And then she tells me it is a good thing we didn't live in the same city otherwise we would be spending all our free time together (probably true).

Ug. But as this goes on, I'm feeling more and more ill about the whole thing. She still has a hold on me. She is still just as nutters as ever (if not more so). She's angry. She just talks about herself all the time. She is super jealous of my life and success and scolded me for talking about it too much (I didn't think I was... .I was just telling her about my life and what was going on after listening to her for hours about hers).

Anyhow, I'm starting to feel very ill about the whole thing. I told her I was OK with being friends but I'm starting to feel like I am not. I don't know why I keep trying to make something work with her. I didn't particularily enjoy spending time with her. There were some moments that were great. Some that we just awkward. And other moments that were just kind of terrible (felt like running away).

I don't know what to do. I feel like I'm a ropped in again. She laid the guilt on pretty thick about how devastating it would be if I couldn't be her friend. And I'm stuck in that now. She also dangles this carrot of us being together again at the same time. Then she has these moments of clarity where she tells me that she needs to get healthy first before being with anyone. The thing is, I don't trust anything that she says. If I believed any of these to be true, I would be OK. I just hate not knowing what's going on and she doesn't seem capable of handling any kind of real conversation.

Ok. I know what you are all going to say. But please, say it anyways! I'm trying to tell myself the same thing and it goes something like this:

Willy, why are you stuck on someone who isn't healthy, who you don't particularily enjoy being around, who makes you unhappy, who guilts you into a weird relationship, who you are mostly terrified of, who you don't think would make a good mother or partner, and someone who you are just going to end up being a caretaker of? Why don't you just find someone who isn't mentally ill?

The answer to that question... .oh man... .if I only knew... .

Thanks all. Just venting I suppose.

Of course we here all understand the difficulties of a r/s w a pBPD but I think you are asking a different question.   One thing that stands out everytime you post about this women Willy is that you seem to be very drawn to her absolute control over you.  You were in another r/s that I recall and you still allowed this woman to call all the shots.

Something's gotta change or nothing will change. 

Your partner has complete control.  Where does your boundary begin Willy? You remain in this r/s and return to it with the silent effects of bcoming physically ill from the ride.

Where else in your life have you felt this way? 

If you are going up remain w this woman something must change. 

[downwhim]

"Love IS

Patient, Kind, Does NOT envy, boast; is NOT proud, does not dishonor others, NOT self-seeking, NOT easily angered, keeps no record of wrongs. Does NOT delight in evil but rejoices in Truth.

Love ALWAYS protects, trusts, hopes and perseveres.

Love, never, fails." Love this, it was read at my wedding. I believe it is true.

Willy, we can go around in circles trying to please them. You need to figure out what you really want. You were away from her for 3 years and growing I am sure. She has set you back. You say you can be friends with her but can you really?

She should not be calling the shots in your life. You need to take the power back and make your own decisions. Her crazy thinking will get you nowhere.

[raisins3142]

Could it be that she wants the benefits of a relationship without it really being an official relationship with the "negatives" of accountability, exclusivity, and expectations?  A have your cake and eat it too arrangement?

[Infared]

Could it be that she wants the benefits of a relationship without it really being an official relationship with the "negatives" of accountability, exclusivity, and expectations?  A have your cake and eat it too arrangement?

Yes... .but Willy is "All-in"!   I would rather be water boarded... .it would be less painful.

[Suzn]

Willy you're not stuck although I know it feels that way. We know how hard this is. You have choices, you are allowed to change your mind in any direction you wish. If you are asking us to help you stay strong, we will be there for you.

I'd like to point out that she said she wanted space so that she could deal with therapy. That would otherwise be a healthy decision for her however she's already starting with the  unhealthy games. How serious does she seem to be at this point about helping herself in therapy? It's very difficult for anyone who is in therapy dealing with emotional issues such as these while in a relationship that helps perpetuate the emotional issues. I'm not saying it's impossible because no one can say that, I think it would be safe to say however that the chances that she can become healthy while being involved with someone who triggers her, with her obviously having no coping skills at this point, are slim to none. And you may end up right back to square one when she implodes again.

I asked what you thought you needed, could it be comfort? If so I totally get that, this is hard. Hard is hard, it's not one step above easy.  

[willy45]

Thanks all.

As per usual, very good advice!

What I need is to really stay away from her. All the signs are there that she is worse than when she was before. She's doing art therapy, whatever that means. But by all accounts, all her relationships are in complete turmoil, she's being 'bullied' out of her job, got kicked out of her house, and who knows what else she isn't telling me. She says she wants to be with me after we can learn to be friends again but I don't really believe her. I think she is alone and I'm her go to person when she feels crazy and some other dude is going to come along and she is miraculously going to be perfect again. Not sure if I am just jaded but that is the outcome I see as most likely.

What I want is to not deal with her and have nothing to do with her. Getting back together with her fills me with more anxiety than anything. And yes. I am susceptible. Obviously. She draws me close and tells me all kinds of romantic things. Touches me softly, texts me every day, invites me to things. But then can't even have a conversation about anything. Freaks out at even a 5 minute conversation. She doesn't seem to want to talk on the phone. Just stupid texts. Which I hate. Such a stupid way to communicate.

So, I guess what I'm feeling now is the anger setting in again. That's a good sign, I think... .

Thanks all. Will keep you posted. I truly hate this. And I want to find someone who doesn't have mental health issues.

[Infared]

Thanks all.

As per usual, very good advice!

What I need is to really stay away from her. All the signs are there that she is worse than when she was before. She's doing art therapy, whatever that means. But by all accounts, all her relationships are in complete turmoil, she's being 'bullied' out of her job, got kicked out of her house, and who knows what else she isn't telling me. She says she wants to be with me after we can learn to be friends again but I don't really believe her. I think she is alone and I'm her go to person when she feels crazy and some other dude is going to come along and she is miraculously going to be perfect again. Not sure if I am just jaded but that is the outcome I see as most likely.

What I want is to not deal with her and have nothing to do with her. Getting back together with her fills me with more anxiety than anything. And yes. I am susceptible. Obviously. She draws me close and tells me all kinds of romantic things. Touches me softly, texts me every day, invites me to things. But then can't even have a conversation about anything. Freaks out at even a 5 minute conversation. She doesn't seem to want to talk on the phone. Just stupid texts. Which I hate. Such a stupid way to communicate.

So, I guess what I'm feeling now is the anger setting in again. That's a good sign, I think... .

Thanks all. Will keep you posted. I truly hate this. And I want to find someone who doesn't have mental health issues.

Communicating wit text for anything meaningful is:

Lazy.

Impersonal.

Selfish.

Inconsiderate.

Controlling.

It also avoids "REAL" adult contact.