I'll use her property and anything that I have to compel a face to face

[cehlers55]

She leaves stuff with you (priceless heirlooms) hoping that you will throw them away. THEN she can paint you black to everyone and make up lies that you:

1. Refused to give her her things back and

2. Smashed all her priceless memories.

OR

She must leave things with you because you are now Split BLACK.

So you are KEEPING those things from her. Holding them hostage or whatever.

I think it's all so she can paint us black to herself and others. That's what my ex would do. It's her proof to other's that you were such a bad guy that she "had to" leave at the drop of a hat because you were "so bad" and she couldn't get her most precious things. Black. Black. Black

[JRT]

Your ex sounds similar to my ex, an idyllic r/s, like you, we rarely argued, spent almost 24/7 together, I didn't get to see her temper, she apparently turned everything inward, I'm tempted to say it was the best relationship I've ever been in, at least that's how it felt at the time. It truly felt like she was "the one" I'd been waiting my entire life for which is why the end was so horrific for me too. Two weeks before she ended it she told her father "I've never loved a man like I love him" 14 days later 100% silent treatment.

After doing a lot of research on BPD and talking to a BPD sufferer I now know that the whole thing was a fiction, it was her acting out a fairytale, there was no reality to it. You fell in love with a myth that YOU created in your head because of the way she presented herself. You believed her words, but were they backed up with acts of love? A pwBPD cannot love because real love first requires self love and a pwBPD detests themselves. Theirs is a world of soppy words but there are few acts of love. I realised that all my ex could ever give me was her body and she did give that freely, did she ever do the little things that people who love do? no. Did she ever ask how I was doing and actually listen and empathise with how my life was going? no. Once you understand that the whole r/s was more than likely an unsustainable fiction you will be a step closer to getting better. She made you feel like you were a million dollars and you are angry that was ripped away from you, but as hard as it is to believe, it was a fiction, there was no reality to it, for a while, you were just another attempt of hers to fill a hole that cannot be filled.

Likewise you are making assumptions regarding the nature of our relationship... .the breakup was ruthless I'll agree with that. But the balance of it was the best relationship that I ever had. She did not treat me as many of the non's I see here have been treated. There was no tumult and we rarely - if ever- argued. We had lots in common and did everything together.  I was entirely happy albeit with some problems that needed work.

I entirely agree... .it makes me sad for her... .your relationship and mine seem very similar including her playing the part up until the very end... .i never saw it coming at all, she disappeared when I was away and I have not spoken with her since.

You mad me think of those little things and how people who are in love truly show they care... .she used to call me when she NEEDED me... .she would establish that I would say mine so as to get it out of the way so that she could then rechannel the conversation to the thing that she REALLY called for. It was pretty clear, on reflection, that there was little concern regarding what I had to say. Almost as she had to get it out of the way as the price to have me deal with her crisis or need. I just chalked it up at the time to being a quirk of hers but it's a pretty clear demonstration that my thoughts and concerns were not ones that she at all was bothered with.

[jhkbuzz]

After doing a lot of research on BPD and talking to a BPD sufferer I now know that the whole thing was a fiction, it was her acting out a fairytale, there was no reality to it. You fell in love with a myth that YOU created in your head because of the way she presented herself. You believed her words, but were they backed up with acts of love? A pwBPD cannot love because real love first requires self love and a pwBPD detests themselves. Theirs is a world of soppy words but there are few acts of love. I realised that all my ex could ever give me was her body and she did give that freely, did she ever do the little things that people who love do? no. Did she ever ask how I was doing and actually listen and empathise with how my life was going? no. Once you understand that the whole r/s was more than likely an unsustainable fiction you will be a step closer to getting better. She made you feel like you were a million dollars and you are angry that was ripped away from you, but as hard as it is to believe, it was a fiction, there was no reality to it, for a while, you were just another attempt of hers to fill a hole that cannot be filled.

Believe it or not, my ex and I had conversations about her infidelities.  One didn't go beyond kissing, one was a full affair.

In both instances she described being completely enamored in a 'fantasy' of the r/s's... .a fantasy in which she gets completely emeshed in living a "fairytale."  She was deeply disturbed by her ability to do this; I believe she was being honest with me as she shared this with me.

[janey62]

Only one day later, her FRIEND contacts me via IM to see if she can pick it up (I refused insisting that my ex and my ex only will be the only one that I release it to accompanied by an explanation as to why she did what she did... .NON negotiable)... .I heard nothing back... .the entire exchange was childish and silly... .I wonder if it was ex just using her GF's account.

Hmmmm?  Seems to me that if you wanted rid of the stuff you would have let her friend take it?  I don't understand why you should not negotiate?  I think it might be worth asking yourself why is it so important to you that this trunk of stuff be collected?  If it was a whole houseful and it was in your way that would be a bit annoying, but there is something else here I think... .

My exbfwBPD always brings stuff to my house, and when he goes it gets left behind.  He has often told me to dump it, but instead I've meekly packed it all up and delivered it to him, or his mother or a storage unit somewhere.  This time I've not been able to deal with it yet, too difficult and upsetting, and its different because it really is over. 

I realised that his leaving possessions behind was part of the game that he was unwittingly playing.  His stuff and what I chose to do with it was important because if I did as he said and dumped it, or what I'm tempted to do having been left financially in a mess by him and sell it, it would prove further that I don't love him, don't care and that he is therefore unlovable... . 

All of their negative behaviour it seems to me is aimed at getting us to reject and abuse them... .and to be part of their crazed game playing.

[JRT]

Only one day later, her FRIEND contacts me via IM to see if she can pick it up (I refused insisting that my ex and my ex only will be the only one that I release it to accompanied by an explanation as to why she did what she did... .NON negotiable)... .I heard nothing back... .the entire exchange was childish and silly... .I wonder if it was ex just using her GF's account.

Hmmmm?  Seems to me that if you wanted rid of the stuff you would have let her friend take it?  I don't understand why you should not negotiate?  I think it might be worth asking yourself why is it so important to you that this trunk of stuff be collected?  If it was a whole houseful and it was in your way that would be a bit annoying, but there is something else here I think... .

My exbfwBPD always brings stuff to my house, and when he goes it gets left behind.  He has often told me to dump it, but instead I've meekly packed it all up and delivered it to him, or his mother or a storage unit somewhere.  This time I've not been able to deal with it yet, too difficult and upsetting, and its different because it really is over. 

I realised that his leaving possessions behind was part of the game that he was unwittingly playing.  His stuff and what I chose to do with it was important because if I did as he said and dumped it, or what I'm tempted to do having been left financially in a mess by him and sell it, it would prove further that I don't love him, don't care and that he is therefore unlovable... . 

All of their negative behaviour it seems to me is aimed at getting us to reject and abuse them... .and to be part of their crazed game playing.

I really didn't want to get rid of it per se... .at least not for the sake of getting rid of it... .If she wanted it back, she has the responsibility as a 44 year old adult to be able to contact me and arrange to pick it up... .oh yeah: and when she does pick it up, she can explain what compelled to leave while I was away from home on business and never received as much as a Dear John letter... .she blocked me from contact and my attempts to circumvent were met with a call from the cops... .most people would describe closure another way, but I want mine to look me in the eye and give me an explanation... .I realize that it will likely never come, but until then, neither will her stuff.

I see what you are saying in regard to why they leave property behind... .she did this on previous recycles and I figured it was a lifeline back to me... .a face saving way to contact me about 'unfinished business'... .but i can see where your observations makes sense... .right now, she is of the belief that I threw the stuff out... .guess I am painted black, ... .she had a lawyer send me a threatening letter 3 months back... .where I asked him about her property and he told me to throw it out or give it away... .this came directly from her... .do you think that this was part of the same deluded thinking? That she knew that I would never throw it away and she was looking to have something 'demonstrated'?

[dobie]

My xBPDfiance left 3 plus months ago not seen her since every time we talked the story changed I got painted more black  and the gas lighting began

They simply cannot admit to being wrong or causing pain she even had the cheek to tell me she is a good person and how else could she have broken up with me .


They will justify EVERYTHING unless they have a need or reason not to .

She has a number of very personal items of mine and my family that she is holding onto as a form of control . I'm not going to give her the opportunity to see me I will send a family member to pick it up when I'm ready .

I would like nothing better than raging at her for all the hurt she has caused but its a waste of time ... .why because she will use it to justify what a "horrible" person I am and two it won't change a thing .

Its like teaching a dog to speak Russian

[Mutt]

Just a reminder about the format and guidelines for discussion, including welcoming diversity and not debating others' points of view (forum)

3.0 DISCUSSION FORMAT:bpdfamily/bpdfamily.com is set up as a collegium. We follow a Collegial Discussion format which is characterized as having "authority" vested equally among colleagues/peers. As such, members present their ideas in "collegial harmony" and the credibility of their positions are based solely on the quality of the points they advance in writing. Diversity is to be embraced - there is often much to be learned from others views and perspectives.

Please note that collegial discussion is different than debate. Debate is an argument or a discussion generally ending with a vote or agreement on the best decision. In debate, unity is the objective. Members are discouraged from debating and arguing against others' positions, questioning the wisdom of others, or restating of their position repeatedly.

[Skip]

I really didn't want to get rid of it per se... .at least not for the sake of getting rid of it... .If she wanted it back, she has the responsibility as a 44 year old adult to be able to contact me and arrange to pick it up... .oh yeah: and when she does pick it up, she can explain what compelled to leave while I was away from home on business and never received as much as a Dear John letter... .she blocked me from contact and my attempts to circumvent were met with a call from the cops... .most people would describe closure another way, but I want mine to look me in the eye and give me an explanation... .I realize that it will likely never come, but until then, neither will her stuff.

This had to be really hard.  Things like this sting like hell.  It will sting for a long time.   

And we come here to heal.

Why did she leave the way she did? 

Things most likely were building with her for a while. The end action was impulse and not likely well thought out - but it ties back to something.

Right?

And going NC on you was for a reason.  She's not insane.  It makes sense to her given what she is facing.  I can't guess why, but most likely it was to avoid answering for what she had done.  Fear?  Shame? Guilt?

Right?

The harder you try to see her now and try to get her to confront the matter, the more she is going to avoid you.  And if you corner her, she is going to fight you you?

Right?  Human nature. 

We've all been in this mode at some point in or life - you know the feeling - at least in part.

So... .

1> what was it that was a common theme is the last stages of the relationship?  What was mostly bothering her?  You know this.  Can you share it here?  Even if its a few things.

2> why did she NC you?  You know her.  You know how she reacts.  What is driving it?  Fear?  Shame? Guilt? Obligation?  Can you at least say what it wasn't and what it might have been?  Can you share it here? 

Let's talk it out.  Let's step back from the horrible wound and the surrounding emotion, and get what you already know on the table.

[JRT]

This had to be really hard.  Things like this sting like hell.  It will sting for a long time.  

IT SURE DOES!

Why did she leave the way she did?  

I HAVE THEORIES BUT THEY ARE ONLY THEORIES

Things most likely were building with her for a while. The end action was impulse and not likely well thought out - but it ties back to something.  Right?

YES... .MORE BELOW

And going NC on you was for a reason.  She's not insane.  It makes sense to her given what she is facing.  I can't guess why, but most likely it was to avoid answering for what she had done.  Fear?  Shame? Guilt? Right?

AGREE... .ALL OF THE ABOVE

The harder you try to see her now and try to get her to confront the matter, the more she is going to avoid you.  And if you corner her, she is going to fight you you?

Agree with that as well... .After the im episode, i have make my fb profile private and am laying low.

We've all been in this mode at some point in or life - you know the feeling - at least in part.

YES... .SURE!

1> what was it that was a common theme is the last stages of the relationship?  What was mostly bothering her?  You know this.  Can you share it here?  Even if its a few things.

I am happy to share... .Nothing was reported to me... .She rarely told me what was really on her mind... .But i can say that she had just moved in after being on her own for many years (stress)... .Her 18 year old son had just moved out (trigger) and i took a business trip (trigger)... .We seemed to be at the zenith of our relationship... .We cleared a couple of hurdles, really, long term projects and now after she moved in, we were beginning to put our energy towards the wedding... .There was no incident, nor disagreement - nothing (at least that i noticed or was articulated)... .There was a little bit of sneaky behavior but i suspect that it was related to her flight, not a replacement

2> why did she NC you?  You know her.  You know how she reacts.  What is driving it?  Fear?  Shame? Guilt? Obligation?  Can you at least say what it wasn't and what it might have been?  Can you share it here?  

On previous recycles, it was almost the same script each time. The final step was for her and i to meet. Her words each time were that upon sight of me that 'all was well with the world'... .Each time, she looked as if the weight of the planet had been lifted from her shoulders. I wonder if she realizes that any contact with me will lead to this outcome and the part of her that caused the flight is working hard to prevent that at all costs. Not only did she nc me, she blocked me in every imaginable way to contact her including unfriending my friends on social media and successfully compelling hers to do the same to me. I attemtped to call her from a hotel phone while on vacation that was not blocked and i received a call from the police!

Let's talk it out.  Let's step back from the horrible wound and the surrounding emotion, and get what you already know on the table.

I don't have much more than this.

[Skip]

One

On previous recycles, it was almost the same script each time. The final step was for her and i to meet. Her words each time were that upon sight of me that 'all was well with the world'... .Each time, she looked as if the weight of the planet had been lifted from her shoulders.

Is it accountability you want, or a repeat of previous "reuniting" dynamic?

From your response I see that you understand that forcing a meeting against her will is going to drive her further away and if you corner her it will solicit a very negative reaction - not BPD, just human nature.  She pulled away and you have tried to circumvent and its a battle.

Probably not a good idea to stay on this path. Agree?  If you really want to talk to her, you have to lay back and let some of this emotion subside. Maybe the first step is giving her her stuff with no strings attached - just make it happen for her with you far in th background.

I'm not telling you what to do - just saying that if you want to communicate with her at some point the wall need to come down and this is one way to start that process.  If punishing her is your goal, then this advice might feel like a lost opportunity.

Do you want to punish?  :)o you want to talk?

Two

OK, moving on. She was stressed. We know pwBPD are at their worst when stressed.  Having doubts is a normal thing for any pending marriage - harder for a pwBPD.  

How serious were the doubts?  You say the hurdles had been cleared, but was she was optimistic as you?  Was she pushing for the marriage or were you?  Were you 1 step ahead or her?  A half step? Could she have been feeling too much pressure?

Three

Are you wanting to mend this relationship or accept its devise. If its the former, you are a standing in the wrong stadium (Leaving).  This is not the place to get advice on recovering a relationship - try Staying.  If it is the latter, then you may want to be more open to others thoughts back here. If they say something that doesn't align with your thinking, work through it with them.  We often learn the most from the people the people that see things differently than we do.

In the end, what you do - hold the property or return - is for you to decide.  We all respect you and your right to chose.  

[PaintedBlack28]

JRT, please read this very carefully. It is one of my favorite posts written by a very respected member known as "2010". I strongly suggest you read this person's posts. It was written by someone much more intelligent that I am, but at the same time someone who has a great knowledge about the disorder we are dealing with.

Anger is pretty much what we deal with here, among other states of spirit and mind. There will be more stadiums through which you will go in this painstalking process.  But here you may  find some answers (ones that  you will never get from her).

Best of luck, stay strong.

"Crushed,

    My heart goes out to you on this. I think we’ve all been there. When you answer the emails and demand reasons (and apologies) for the inappropriate behavior and they don’t come- it can be devastating.

Many people who get into a relationship with idealization and mirroring can feel life affirmed in the beginning, almost as though this was a holy anointment.  And in the end, when it appears to be just a façade, it can cause such despair that one can only compare it to Hell.

The aftermath of this goes in stages; the back and forth; and having it get worse- only to spiral down and crash.  Then when you’ve crashed, you really want the pain to go away, and the only thing that you know will take that pain away is the proof that you were really loved in spite of it all, (in spite of the disorder.)  But this person can’t take away your pain when they are the cause of it and your uncertainty about that is sometimes outweighed by your hopefulness - and this is what needs to be addressed.

And at a certain point we all feel shame for not being able to “fix” the disorder.  And the more you read about addiction, the more you’ll understand that it really is about a “fix.” Uncertainty versus hope equals bargaining and denial of the dilemma can lead to toxic shame.  All of these “psychology today” terms that really stem from a spiritual wound that needs healing. There are reasons for this.

The BPD partner is really a representative of what you think will “fix” your spiritual wound.  If you have Love- you are lovable. If your love is taken away, you feel unlovable and you don’t want to live. After all, what is life *worth living* for if you were never truly loved?

So the catch-22 of all of this is that the person who said they loved you actually doesn’t understand love- they only know need.  They don’t know what stable love is- otherwise they would feel it- you would feel it and the entire World would be Glorious, but this is a disorder. You’ve got to respect that.

And the truth of the matter is that you’ve also got to intellectually understand that you fell in love with a person that has a distorted belief system that causes them to have a pattern of unstable interpersonal behavior. The behavior is triggered by you due to intimacy, and it is their wonky way of a coping mechanism for the thoughts of persecution and bondage to a punitive parent that exists in their head. Lying and impulsive behavior and anger and fear and projection are all part and parcel of the disorder. It’s not reasonable to think you are no longer loveable because of the disorder’s distorted beliefs. You are loveable. The disorder wouldn’t have been triggered otherwise.

Hopefully, you know that you are very important. Your importance means that in the aftermath of this failed love- there is still love for yourself that has to be lit from within. If it isn’t, the need to hand it over to another person for safe keeping is too much responsibility, especially for someone who is unstable. You must have self-love despite the fact that another human being appears unable to carry your love. In all likelihood, both of you had great intentions for love, but the unstable belief system guaranteed an outcome that did not support trust and faith. This is a disorder. I’m very sorry and I know it hurts.

I know you feel down right now. This is completely appropriate given the circumstances, but I’m here to tell you – you will get through this. There is a resolve inside of you that will not be extinguished. It is a flame that exists in spite of your heartache and you will keep it alive, because there are many people out there who will love you- you just need to give them a chance. Day by day, every person you meet gives you the possibility for love. The despair you feel right now- it will pass, I promise. But first, we need closure on your spiritual wound. Your despair is about a lack of closure, and this back and forth just rips the scab off. So how do we suture you up? What is the best method of closure?

For most people, closure is an action word - you take action by closing the door to someone who has hurt you- especially someone who has hurt you multiple times. And for most people, this is very hard to do. You’ve held out hope for so long and the back and forth is keeping that hope alive, but it’s also spiritually draining.

No contact is saying that you don’t want to be hurt anymore and you want (or at least attempt) a better future. The hope is something you give yourself. That’s self-preservation and self love and it’s the effort you make to keep that tiny flame alive inside of you despite the fact that another person has hurt you. You may fall off the wagon and break the no contact agreement, but it will eventually work its way through and the door will be closed. Then you must grieve.

The best you can hope for is that someday you will find peace from the aftermath (now known as an interaction rather than a relationship) An interaction with someone who needed you for the wrong reasons, (not the right ones) which supported a disordered belief system where you were assigned a role to play. You’re going to have to accept that this wasn’t supposed to be a lifelong commitment and that’s a GOOD thing you realized this sooner rather than later.

You will eventually accept that the closing of doors lead to the opening of others, and you will wistfully admire your commitment to try and love this person, while realizing the futility of your efforts and still ask yourself the hard questions about why you were willing to love in such a way that you were willing to turn against loving yourself.

It will get better. Day by day. Give it time. And please don’t ever give up. Hope you keep posting. "  

[JRT]

One

On previous recycles, it was almost the same script each time. The final step was for her and i to meet. Her words each time were that upon sight of me that 'all was well with the world'... .Each time, she looked as if the weight of the planet had been lifted from her shoulders.

Is it accountability you want, or a repeat of previous "reuniting" dynamic?

I WISH THAT I COULD ANSWER THAT DEFINITIVELY... .I DON'T KNOW... .THIS WAS A MAJOR KICK IN MY MY SOUL AND HEART... .I AM AFRAID THAT I WILL NEVER FELT HE SAME WAY OR HAVE TO SLEEP WITH ONE EYE OPEN ... .BUT I AM WILLING TO TRY IF SHE IS WILLING TO PUT IN AN EFFORT

From your response I see that you understand that forcing a meeting against her will is going to drive her further away and if you corner her it will solicit a very negative reaction - not BPD, just human nature.  She pulled away and you have tried to circumvent and its a battle.

I CAN SEE THAT

Probably not a good idea to stay on this path. Agree?  If you really want to talk to her, you have to lay back and let some of this emotion subside. Maybe the first step is giving her her stuff with no strings attached - just make it happen for her with you far in th background.

I WOULD AGREE, YES. BUT IF IT WERE HER PLAN AS A LIFELINE OF SORTS BACK TO ME, WOULDN'T THAT FRUSTRATE HER? WOULDN'T THAT MEAN THAT I AM TRULY ABANDONING HER? ITS STRONG SYMBOLISM: HERE IS YOUR STUFF - I DON'T CARE. SEE YA. (?)

I'm not telling you what to do - just saying that if you want to communicate with her at some point the wall need to come down and this is one way to start that process.  If punishing her is your goal, then this advice might feel like a lost opportunity. I DON'T FEEL THAT... .I APPRECIATE THE ADVICE. BUT WHAT IS KEEPING UP THE WALL? AND WHY SO HIGH?  

Do you want to punish?  :)o you want to talk? PART OF ME WANTS TO HURT HER AS BADLY AS SHE HAS HURT ME AND MY DAUGHTER. I HAVE HAD DAY DREAMS ABOUT WHAT I WOULD DO TO HER IF I SAW HER AGAIN. BUT I AM NOT LIKE THAT, CANDIDLY, I AM STILL IN LOVE WITH HER (ALTHOUGH WITH A NEW AND HIGHLY TARNISHED DYNAMIC) ... .BUT IW WOULD LIKE TO TALK

Two

OK, moving on. She was stressed. We know pwBPD are at their worst when stressed.  Having doubts is a normal thing for any pending marriage - harder for a pwBPD.  

How serious were the doubts?  You say the hurdles had been cleared, but was she was optimistic as you?  Was she pushing for the marriage or were you?  Were you 1 step ahead or her?  A half step? Could she have been feeling too much pressure?

ON MY PART? I NEVER FELT REALLY SECURE WITH HER AFTER THE FIRST RECYCLE. I HAD THE SENSE THAT IT WOULD HAPPEN AGAIN. THAT 'I WILL FOLLOW YOU TO THE ENDS OF THE EARTH' FEELING WENT AWAY AND NEVER CAME BACK.

THE HURDLES WERE MAJOR PROJECTS: HER SONS GRAD PARTY WAS ONE OF THEM... .WE HAD WORKED FOR WEEKS IN ORDER TO PREPARE FOR IT... .THEN BUILDING SOME FURNITURE OFR HIS DADS HOUSE... .SOME TRIPS WE TOOK AS WELL TOOK FOCUS AWAY ... .I WAS COMFORTABLE WITH THE WEDDING AND I THINK THAT SHE WAS AS WELL... .WE WENT TO GET OUR RINGS MADE... .SHE WAS SHOPPING FOR DRESSES AND HAD HER MIND MADE UP ON THEM... .WE BEGAN TO CONSIDER VENUES (ARRRRG! THIS FRUSTRATES ME JUST TO REVISIT!)... .SO I WOULD SAY THAT WE WERE IN LOCKSTEP... .WE ALWAYS WERE FROM THE VERY BEGINNING... .WE WERE BOTH MARRIAGE MINDED... .HOWEVER, I NEVER RECALL HER ROMANCING THE IDEA OF BEING MARRIED TO ME... .NO TRYING THE LAST NAME ON FOR SIZE IN FRONT OF ME OR STUFF LIKE THAT... .PERHAPS SHE WAS LOOKING FORWARD TO BEING MARRIED (BUT NOT NECESSARILY TO ME)

Three

Are you wanting to mend this relationship or accept its devise. If its the former, you are a standing in the wrong stadium (Leaving).  This is not the place to get advice on recovering a relationship - try Staying.  If it is the latter, then you may want to be more open to others thoughts back here. If they say something that doesn't align with your thinking, work through it with them.  We often learn the most from the people the people that see things differently than we do.

I AM THE TYPE THAT SEE POSSIBILITY; THERE IS ALWAYS HOPE. I WISH THAT I COULD SALVAGE SOMETHING THAT TOOK TWO YEARS TO BUILD... .IT REALLY WAS A GOOD RELATIONSHIP. HER FLIGHT IS PERPLEXING. IN TERM OF FORUMS, I AM NOT SURE I AM IN THE RIGHT PLACE EITHER BUT WITH HER POSTURE, I HAVE NO IDEA THAT I EVEN HAVE A CARD TO PLAY IN TERMS OF STAYING.

In the end, what you do - hold the property or return - is for you to decide.  We all respect you and your right to chose.  

WELL I APPRECIATE THAT AND THE ADVICE... .OUTSIDE OF GIVING OR KEEPING HER STUFF, I DON'T SEE HOW THAT I CAN EFFECT ANY SORT OF REAL OUTCOME HERE... .<SIGH> WHAT WAS THAT cAGNEY LINE ABOUT GIN JOINTS?

[JRT]

One

On previous recycles, it was almost the same script each time. The final step was for her and i to meet. Her words each time were that upon sight of me that 'all was well with the world'... .Each time, she looked as if the weight of the planet had been lifted from her shoulders.

Is it accountability you want, or a repeat of previous "reuniting" dynamic

at this point, probably both though I realize that they are competing outcomes.

[JRT]

JRT, please read this very carefully. It is one of my favorite posts written by a very respected member known as "2010". I strongly suggest you read this person's posts. It was written by someone much more intelligent that I am, but at the same time someone who has a great knowledge about the disorder we are dealing with.

Anger is pretty much what we deal with here, among other states of spirit and mind. There will be more stadiums through which you will go in this painstalking process.  But here you may  find some answers (ones that  you will never get from her).

Best of luck, stay strong.

"Crushed,

    My heart goes out to you on this. I think we’ve all been there. When you answer the emails and demand reasons (and apologies) for the inappropriate behavior and they don’t come- it can be devastating.

Many people who get into a relationship with idealization and mirroring can feel life affirmed in the beginning, almost as though this was a holy anointment.  And in the end, when it appears to be just a façade, it can cause such despair that one can only compare it to Hell.

The aftermath of this goes in stages; the back and forth; and having it get worse- only to spiral down and crash.  Then when you’ve crashed, you really want the pain to go away, and the only thing that you know will take that pain away is the proof that you were really loved in spite of it all, (in spite of the disorder.)  But this person can’t take away your pain when they are the cause of it and your uncertainty about that is sometimes outweighed by your hopefulness - and this is what needs to be addressed.

And at a certain point we all feel shame for not being able to “fix” the disorder.  And the more you read about addiction, the more you’ll understand that it really is about a “fix.” Uncertainty versus hope equals bargaining and denial of the dilemma can lead to toxic shame.  All of these “psychology today” terms that really stem from a spiritual wound that needs healing. There are reasons for this.

The BPD partner is really a representative of what you think will “fix” your spiritual wound.  If you have Love- you are lovable. If your love is taken away, you feel unlovable and you don’t want to live. After all, what is life *worth living* for if you were never truly loved?

So the catch-22 of all of this is that the person who said they loved you actually doesn’t understand love- they only know need.  They don’t know what stable love is- otherwise they would feel it- you would feel it and the entire World would be Glorious, but this is a disorder. You’ve got to respect that.

And the truth of the matter is that you’ve also got to intellectually understand that you fell in love with a person that has a distorted belief system that causes them to have a pattern of unstable interpersonal behavior. The behavior is triggered by you due to intimacy, and it is their wonky way of a coping mechanism for the thoughts of persecution and bondage to a punitive parent that exists in their head. Lying and impulsive behavior and anger and fear and projection are all part and parcel of the disorder. It’s not reasonable to think you are no longer loveable because of the disorder’s distorted beliefs. You are loveable. The disorder wouldn’t have been triggered otherwise.

Hopefully, you know that you are very important. Your importance means that in the aftermath of this failed love- there is still love for yourself that has to be lit from within. If it isn’t, the need to hand it over to another person for safe keeping is too much responsibility, especially for someone who is unstable. You must have self-love despite the fact that another human being appears unable to carry your love. In all likelihood, both of you had great intentions for love, but the unstable belief system guaranteed an outcome that did not support trust and faith. This is a disorder. I’m very sorry and I know it hurts.

I know you feel down right now. This is completely appropriate given the circumstances, but I’m here to tell you – you will get through this. There is a resolve inside of you that will not be extinguished. It is a flame that exists in spite of your heartache and you will keep it alive, because there are many people out there who will love you- you just need to give them a chance. Day by day, every person you meet gives you the possibility for love. The despair you feel right now- it will pass, I promise. But first, we need closure on your spiritual wound. Your despair is about a lack of closure, and this back and forth just rips the scab off. So how do we suture you up? What is the best method of closure?

For most people, closure is an action word - you take action by closing the door to someone who has hurt you- especially someone who has hurt you multiple times. And for most people, this is very hard to do. You’ve held out hope for so long and the back and forth is keeping that hope alive, but it’s also spiritually draining.

No contact is saying that you don’t want to be hurt anymore and you want (or at least attempt) a better future. The hope is something you give yourself. That’s self-preservation and self love and it’s the effort you make to keep that tiny flame alive inside of you despite the fact that another person has hurt you. You may fall off the wagon and break the no contact agreement, but it will eventually work its way through and the door will be closed. Then you must grieve.

The best you can hope for is that someday you will find peace from the aftermath (now known as an interaction rather than a relationship) An interaction with someone who needed you for the wrong reasons, (not the right ones) which supported a disordered belief system where you were assigned a role to play. You’re going to have to accept that this wasn’t supposed to be a lifelong commitment and that’s a GOOD thing you realized this sooner rather than later.

You will eventually accept that the closing of doors lead to the opening of others, and you will wistfully admire your commitment to try and love this person, while realizing the futility of your efforts and still ask yourself the hard questions about why you were willing to love in such a way that you were willing to turn against loving yourself.

It will get better. Day by day. Give it time. And please don’t ever give up. Hope you keep posting. "  

Thank you for thinking of me... .

[FoolishMan]

So was that remark... .we are here to support one another, not judge. I would appreciate if you kept nonconstructive opinions such as this one to yourself.

I believe my comments were constructive, I'm sorry you didn't find them that way. You said childish yourself, I thought you meant it genuinely and I did agree. I'm not trying to annoy or upset you but your plan of action doesn't seem to be constructive either.

I see the plan as 'Withhold items owned by another so you can DEMAND something from them after they have said they don't want to see you' It's not clear headed thinking and I believe in a while you will realise this. You have been getting good advice on how to heal, after all this post is made on the leaving side.

I hope whatever plan of action you take, that it works out best for you, I mean that. I hate the pain that these relationships can cause. I find NC to be a great way to detach from the madness. This means you keep nothing. I passed my ex in the shops yesterday and she made an attempt to catch my eye, she was like a ghost to me, as soon as I realised it was her my brain zoned her out. I felt nothing, thankfully . 9 months ago I'd have been begging and pleading at the check outs.

[Mutt]

Are you wanting to mend this relationship or accept its devise. If its the former, you are a standing in the wrong stadium (Leaving).  This is not the place to get advice on recovering a relationship - try Staying.  If it is the latter, then you may want to be more open to others thoughts back here. If they say something that doesn't align with your thinking, work through it with them.  We often learn the most from the people the people that see things differently than we do.

I AM THE TYPE THAT SEE POSSIBILITY; THERE IS ALWAYS HOPE. I WISH THAT I COULD SALVAGE SOMETHING THAT TOOK TWO YEARS TO BUILD... .IT REALLY WAS A GOOD RELATIONSHIP. HER FLIGHT IS PERPLEXING. IN TERM OF FORUMS, I AM NOT SURE I AM IN THE RIGHT PLACE EITHER BUT WITH HER POSTURE, I HAVE NO IDEA THAT I EVEN HAVE A CARD TO PLAY IN TERMS OF STAYING.

In the end, what you do - hold the property or return - is for you to decide.  We all respect you and your right to chose.   

WELL I APPRECIATE THAT AND THE ADVICE... .OUTSIDE OF GIVING OR KEEPING HER STUFF, I DON'T SEE HOW THAT I CAN EFFECT ANY SORT OF REAL OUTCOME HERE... .<SIGH> WHAT WAS THAT cAGNEY LINE ABOUT GIN JOINTS?

OK, I think you are on the wrong board. 

You don't really have a card to play right now except a brief apology and giving her space for all the pushing to wear off.  It's not fair - but this is the only constructive thing you a do.  If she is not asking for the stuff, then wait.

Maybe the folks on Staying an help you process and understand why she ran - how much was her illness, how much was just relationship stuff. Engulfment is something to look into.

What to do with your time?

Accept that this is a big deal.  You are apart.  She acted badly.  You acted badly.  There is no quick fix.  There has to be independent healing before there can be constructive contact.

Right now you don't have to make a stay or go decision. That's not on the table. 

It might be better to work through it all, do the postmortem, and learn.  Learn so you can reunite if that comes to be.  Learn so you a move on without her if that is where it goes.

The next few weeks are going to be hard... .and a waiting game.  As time goes on, it will affect you too and at some point you will have had enough.

I think this is the card you have.

What do you think?

[JRT]

Its hard to come across practical advice... .this is the best that i have received... .thanks you

Thank you as well FM, I appreciate your input and know that you mean very well.

[hurting300]

I burned my exes things in the front yard. It's the least I can do for someone who used and abused me! And don't even have the backbone to face me. I've never in my life acted this way. Now she has no reason to stalk me anymore. I do not think it's worth it JRT. She is not going to tell you the truth. Give her one month to get stuff if she don't burn it, throw it away or whatever. I feel you man. Your not the immature one here. You demand answers and that's your right!

[FoolishMan]

Its hard to come across practical advice... .this is the best that i have received... .thanks you

Thank you as well FM, I appreciate your input and know that you mean very well.

You are welcome. Since reading the site tonight I've started to ruminate again since a lot of posts resonate. I feel like in order for me to have gotten over her she's dead to me. I can't even think of the good aspects without feeling a little sickly. The idealisation is an addictive place to be... .but it's always over so soon and the bad outweighs the good. Now that I don't feel pain I don't want it back. I've realised during my introspection tonite that I zone her out as a defense mechanism as if I had to let her words affect me or our eyes met and she had pain in them, I could be doomed again. Another replacement will be along shortly then she will avoid me again which I like.

[JRT]

I burned my exes things in the front yard. It's the least I can do for someone who used and abused me! And don't even have the backbone to face me. I've never in my life acted this way. Now she has no reason to stalk me anymore. I do not think it's worth it JRT. She is not going to tell you the truth. Give her one month to get stuff if she don't burn it, throw it away or whatever. I feel you man. Your not the immature one here. You demand answers and that's your right!

I appreciate that and can see why you did that... .some of these r/s are brutal to the extent that I cannot even imagine.

Mine was brutal the way that she broke up, but the rest of it was quite idyllic. I find her rage disproportionate to anything that I had ever done, and I am being generous in even saying that. It would make ME feel badly to destroy this stuff even if it were just a bunch of old clothes (in fact, much of it is valuable family heirloom stuff). I don't know if she and I will ever be together again, but ONE day (an dit might be years from now), she will have come to terms with her demons and may wish to have this stuff. Its no sweat off of my brow to keep it around.

[JRT]

Its hard to come across practical advice... .this is the best that i have received... .thanks you

Thank you as well FM, I appreciate your input and know that you mean very well.

You are welcome. Since reading the site tonight I've started to ruminate again since a lot of posts resonate. I feel like in order for me to have gotten over her she's dead to me. I can't even think of the good aspects without feeling a little sickly. The idealisation is an addictive place to be... .but it's always over so soon and the bad outweighs the good. Now that I don't feel pain I don't want it back. I've realised during my introspection tonite that I zone her out as a defense mechanism as if I had to let her words affect me or our eyes met and she had pain in them, I could be doomed again. Another replacement will be along shortly then she will avoid me again which I like.

how long has it been since your b/u and NC?

[Hazelrah]

Mine was brutal the way that she broke up, but the rest of it was quite idyllic.

Of course it was, JRT.  Therein lies the hook, the fix that we continue to chase when the relationship cools and then when it flames out completely.  Not everyone here has horror stories of domestic violence and wretched treatment... .in some ways, that's what makes it worse for those of us who had what appeared to be solid relationships.  I get it. My BPD wife was my best friend, until... .she was gone.  The truth is, she wasn't ever really there... .at least in the way a truly healthy relationship needs/deserves.  It took me a long time here to figure that out, but when I did, and when I could see my own part in it, I was able to sleep through the night again.

The addiction to this person--that's what needs to be broken; you'll get there, when you're ready. 

[JRT]

I still have not figured it all out... .still too many missing pieces... .but it is like someone came and killed my best friend... .no one close to me understands this and they have, frankly, stopped being interested in hearing anything about it long time ago... .

[Hazelrah]

I still have not figured it all out... .still too many missing pieces... .but it is like someone came and killed my best friend... .no one close to me understands this and they have, frankly, stopped being interested in hearing anything about it long time ago... .

That's what this place is for.  Family and friends aren't going to understand unless they've experienced something like this for themselves.  Stay here and talk with the people who do.  There is a lot of wisdom on this board, even if it's hard to read.

[JRT]

roger that... .I don't know how I could have managed without this site