Co parenting post split

[SES]

This is just a rant... .

So, we are almost divorced,  just waiting for the absolute.  We remain I'm the family home with S7 and D5. She continues her affair/relationship.   We don't talk, just text message. We are waiting fir our house to sell, but no viewings recently... .I think it's over priced,  she doesn't.   She accuses me if trying to destroy her, she got a police caution for DV, and was offereoffered an admission when in custody.   She has consistently refused to pay anything towards the household bills and mortgage.  She has frequently said I will see my kids every other weekend, as i am too unstable. Lawyer wrote to her Nov offering shared care, and 50% equity, but she didn't respond.  Last time we discussed money she asked for a bill in writing,  which I gave her, and which she promptly tore up, telling she wouldn't pay a f****g thing.

D is struggling at school, and wife has referred us all for family therapy.  I don't want to have family therapy with her, as from experience she pulled the wool over the eyes of a relationship couples counsellor last summer.  

I have cancelled all my payments for household bills to try to bring our finances to a head.  She continues to say she will pay, she is salaried, but has never paid a thing.  They aren't my bills, but are ours.

She wants shared care, but says she isn't prepared not to see the kids on their birthdays.    I had them for D birthday this weekend,  and went away (as I always do).  She is nit willing to have our shared care arrangements made into a court order.  The birthday issue prompted her to tell me I'll have to take her to cour,  as she won't agree anything.

I received a flurry of messages over the last few days... .Most accusing me of being unreasonable,  and asking me to work with her for our kids sake. The texts are riddled with lies,  and have been abusive at times.  The school saw us both last week re D, who is struggling at school... .They asked me to move out of the family home!  

Wife now wants mediation,  to resolve childcare... .But she declined last year when she was telling me I'd see the kids every other weekend.   I don't want to meet with her.  She is generally a saying shared care, but refusing a court order.  I want a court order, as she will mess me around.  She wants us to show respect for eachother as parents... .Problem for me, she affair, lying about finishing it in couples counselling,  the abuse post discovering affair, dv, accusing me of planning to kill self and kids, refusing to contribute to the house.  

I'm not sure I ever want to speak to her again.  She sent texts saying she had hoped we would share days with our kids... . I'd prefer never to see her again, but this isn't going to be possible.   She sent texts accusing me of dating, and reminding me that we are still married... .Although she is a year into an affair!  

[scraps66]

Too much to write in response.  But, she sounds terribly "dysregulated" and irrational. Projection. 

[whirlpoollife]

After my filing for divorce we lived together for some months after till h had to move out.

He did not contribute to pay for the utilities / mortgage either.   In our marriage I have gotten him out of debt numerous times but now that I said no more, his entitlement racked up higher. Overnight , he would lock himself in "his " bedroom , open windows , turn heater on and let the water run to run up the bills.

Courts, lawyers, didnt care. 

A court order for support is a must later. With consequences.

Before the court order for custody, h would tell me when I could see the kids , saying it's because his L said so.  He and  his L pressured for all holidays to him.  My L asked if that is what I want. It was up to me to say no.  Don't gift / give / be pressured to give birthdays or holidays away.  Every other year is what I have on holidays and birthdays fall where they fall.  Expect to one upped on birthdays .

Hang in there.

[livednlearned]

Ooof, what a lot to go through right now. How are you holding up?

In general, given what she is saying, expect to go to court. If it isn't over the kids' birthdays, it will be something else. I'm not sure how it works in the UK, but if mediation is mandatory, then do what you can in those sessions. Having a skilled mediator with expertise dealing with narcissists could help. From what you said about her behavior in couples therapy, it sounds like she will behave better in the presence of an audience. My ex was also like this and we managed to settle a lot in mediation, including care of the kids. But we also ended up in court a lot when he didn't comply.

The school is overstepping their bounds to ask you to move out. Do you think your wife has pulled their coat somehow and given them a different story? Anything legal you can do to have her removed from the home?

I agree that family therapy is not likely to be effective, although counseling for the kids could go a long way. Here in the US, it's tricky to get kids into counseling when there is a contested divorce. Both parents are expected to agree. Is it like that where you live? Perhaps you can agree to have the kids in counseling first, and agree to do what's best for the kids.

What's your plan when it comes to lowering the asking price for the house? Do you have a bottom line?

[SES]

Thanks as always.  

Yes, its going to be messy.  She isn't able to maintain one position.  To sell the house fast, I'd slash the price by about 10%.  The agent contacted  me as he was worried about a message  he got from my wife.  She had recently agreed to a price reduction, but now accuses the agent of underselling her house, and questioning how long the contract with them is... .she did find out how long the contract was a couple of weeks ago.   The agent felt offended, and also said the message was odd,  and "bipolar"... .seems the agent has her number... .I advised that she could be impulsive, and that I was happy with him.  

I'm away with our kids, and haven't heard from her today.

I  felt quite annoyed by the school. ... .they were way off the mark.

A horror show.

I'm holding up... .but some days are better than others.   I always wake early ruminating... ,... I have to try to not let  the ruminations take hold, as they really drag me down, and stop me from doing things.

[ForeverDad]

I agree, the school did overstep their bounds.  Yes, the parents do need to separate at some point due to the continuing conflict, but it is not up to them to recommend whom, they're probably not qualified to do so either.  (In my state social workers and counselors may be able to speak up regarding parenting time but would be violating their licenses if they voiced anything regarding custody.)

Birthdays and other events and holidays are usually alternated and then the schedule reversed in alternating years.  That she demanded all birthdays won't fly in court.  Likely the court has published a standard list for parents to use.  Why not start using it now?  If she refuses to abide by it, she can because there are no orders stating otherwise - yet.  So make sure it is reviewed, events that don't apply excluded, events missing included, and get it included with the order.

[livednlearned]

Is it possible you can do some kind of ex parte order to have her removed from the house? "Based on school concerns, based on how the kids are struggling, it would be best to have parents not cohabitate. Your ex has a new paramour, perhaps she can relocate there until the house is sold."

Ex parte orders, at least here, are supposed to be heard within 6 wks. They are a temporary stop gap measure until a more indepth hearing can be scheduled.

That would at least give you some distance so your own mental healthy won't be affected, and may help your kids start to adjust. 

[SES]

Foreverdad and Livednlearned... .

Thanks!

I am trying to be quite boundaried about the time we already have allocated for our childcare.  She isn't supposed to talk to me... .by agreement, wrapped into a court order... .despite this she has spoken to me four times in the last 2 weeks.  I ignore her when she does. 

I tried to get her removed from the house, but found her at the court hearing well prepared with a barrister... .on the other hand I was there with just about 14 hours notice and no legal representation.  Fair to say my application went nowhere. 

She sent me a text today inviting me to spend a family day with her and our children this weekend, and also saying she missed me.  I think it is probably her push/pull, abandoment issues, trying to hook me in?

For my own sanity, I really only want to communicate with her by text message.  I would prefer it if I never spoke to her again.  This has been such a hard journey.  She is unwell, and she is incapable of understanding the hurt she has caused and continues to cause.   

For my own health I have been trying to perfect the feeling of an invisible force field/umbrella around me (a suggestion from this site).  I have also begun to perfect not seeing her when in her presence.  I haven't had eye contact with her for about a month, and I am now quite good at looking past her, or around her, on the occassions I am in her presence. 

[SES]

My wife has recorded a few times in our daughter's school contact book that our daughter has been very distressed regarding not seeing her mother on her birthday.  Something I have never witnessed.  However, more alarming is that she recorded in the book that our kids had been accepted by children's mental health services for family (with their mother) and individual therapy.  When I sent a text asking her about this she replied it was confidential, that I was being threatening and bullying, and that I scared her.  When I contacted children's mental health services, they have no details of my kids!  Fair to say I have alerted the school and my lawyer.   I haven't raised this with my wife.  My lawyer plans to write to "clarify" matters.  Rather alarming.

Less alarming are her texts begging for a hug, then saying she knows what to do to be vindictive, then asking for a hug.  Plus a lots of requests for family days out together. 

[ForeverDad]

Less alarming are her texts begging for a hug, then saying she knows what to do to be vindictive, then asking for a hug.

Her version of the carrot & stick approach?

Plus a lots of requests for family days out together.

Sadly, being accommodating in an attempt to be 'reasonable' can backfire, enabling and encouraging more demands, wheedling and emotional pressuring for more time.  Solution?  Firm boundaries with the few exceptions being well documented.  Ideas?  How about passing the issue back to her?  Anything you feel you should say No to can be balanced with a counter offer for you to get a corresponding amount of time for your benefit.  Odds are that in most cases your ex will respond "You're so cruel!" and drop the matter.

[SES]

This post is just letting off steam... .

Foreverdad, thanks.  You predicted things very well... .Yes, anything now is greeted with: "you are threatening"; "I feel nauseous when I see you, you scare me"; "you scare our daughter"; "I don't know what you are going to do next" etc. etc. 

I am struggling a bit today.  It is all a lot of energy, plus it depends on not feeling bullied and scared of her threats/allegations.  She wrote in my daughters school contact book that the kids had been accepted for family therapy with childrens' mental health services.  When I asked her about this she told me that her therapy with her kids was confidential.  I replied that I would contact services directly, to which she accused me of threatening her and that she felt scared of me.  I contacted childrens mental health services.  They have no record of the kids.  I contacted another counselling service... .they had a referral for the kids, but had put them on a waiting list for an assessment.  They might refer to childrens' mental health services, dependent on the assessment; they might not; they might not even offer therapy themselves.  Well, I wrote to the school to point out the difference between my wife's account, and those of services.  It feels like a lot of hard work.  I can only hope that the school wise up to her.

She sabotaged a viewing on our house recently.  The agent was showing prospective buyers around the house when she told our son he wasn't going out with me, despite being due to leave within the hour. She relented an hour later, due to him remaining distressed.  She then went on to tell me, in front of the kids, that I was erratic and she would have to go to court about our childcare. 

This week, my request that she pays something towards the houshold bills was met with threats (as above). 

Well, I remain in the family home with my wife, who spends half the week with her drug abusing boyfriend.  She pays nothing towards the house.  She has sabotaged a viewing on our property recently.  She is hostile.  I know this isn't news to anyone on this website, and it's probably all too common.  It is utterly crazy!  Good news is, my lawyer no longer sends me copies of the frequent letters she receives from my wife's lawyer... .its good as it saves me from feeling annoyed by it all.  Plus, she says that it is healthy to take a step back, and not respond quickly.  She said: "step away from the mess"... .  I like my lawyer more as a result.  Unfortunately, this is going to be long haul... .no end in sight... .  painful every day.  All the while she is a year into a relationship with her affair boyfriend.  What a wonderful life for her.             

[Boss302]

Do you have any possibility of moving into a place of your own right now? I found that in the long run, it's important for the kids to have a stable place of their own, away from mom's craziness. And it was doubly important for my OWN sanity.

[ForeverDad]

Find a way for the house showings to succeed.  She really ought to be away when there are showings, but then to get that ordered by the court would take time and then you might have to abide by the same terms too.

You can't reason with someone who isn't listening and specifically won't listen to you.  Asking her to pay her portion was a no-brainer but doomed.  Keep track of the amounts you've paid and she's refused to pay or ignored.  The court ought to agree that you get reimbursed when the financial aspects are handled.  But if you don't speak up or get the firm hand of court involved, she may do this again.

You may need a really strong (legal) shoehorn to get her out of the house.  Since you both will have to move sooner or later, can you get the court to have her move out first, since you'll cooperate with moves and are paying anyway.  Or last resort, you both move out so showings and sale can proceed.

[livednlearned]

This post is just letting off steam... .

Foreverdad, thanks.  You predicted things very well... .Yes, anything now is greeted with: "you are threatening"; "I feel nauseous when I see you, you scare me"; "you scare our daughter"; "I don't know what you are going to do next" etc. etc. 

I am struggling a bit today.  It is all a lot of energy, plus it depends on not feeling bullied and scared of her threats/allegations.  She wrote in my daughters school contact book that the kids had been accepted for family therapy with childrens' mental health services.  When I asked her about this she told me that her therapy with her kids was confidential.  I replied that I would contact services directly, to which she accused me of threatening her and that she felt scared of me.  I contacted childrens mental health services.  They have no record of the kids.  I contacted another counselling service... .they had a referral for the kids, but had put them on a waiting list for an assessment.  They might refer to childrens' mental health services, dependent on the assessment; they might not; they might not even offer therapy themselves.  Well, I wrote to the school to point out the difference between my wife's account, and those of services.  It feels like a lot of hard work.  I can only hope that the school wise up to her.

She sabotaged a viewing on our house recently.  The agent was showing prospective buyers around the house when she told our son he wasn't going out with me, despite being due to leave within the hour. She relented an hour later, due to him remaining distressed.  She then went on to tell me, in front of the kids, that I was erratic and she would have to go to court about our childcare. 

This week, my request that she pays something towards the houshold bills was met with threats (as above). 

Well, I remain in the family home with my wife, who spends half the week with her drug abusing boyfriend.  She pays nothing towards the house.  She has sabotaged a viewing on our property recently.  She is hostile.  I know this isn't news to anyone on this website, and it's probably all too common.  It is utterly crazy!  Good news is, my lawyer no longer sends me copies of the frequent letters she receives from my wife's lawyer... .its good as it saves me from feeling annoyed by it all.  Plus, she says that it is healthy to take a step back, and not respond quickly.  She said: "step away from the mess"... .  I like my lawyer more as a result.  Unfortunately, this is going to be long haul... .no end in sight... .  painful every day.  All the while she is a year into a relationship with her affair boyfriend.  What a wonderful life for her.             

Can you let go of the household expenses for now? You're in the red zone, and probably need to think more about your sanity and well-being. It would be wonderful if she handed you some money and helped out. Right now, she is roughly the age of an 8-year old, so isn't capable of behaving in adult ways. All you can do now is set limits on how she affects you emotionally. Perhaps when you are settling assets you can tally up what she owes and work that into the condition of the sale somehow. This might even work with the house. If she is narcissistic, perhaps something would incentivize her to stop obstructing the sale of the home? Calculate how much she should've paid in household expenses, and propose that same amount as a bonus. If she can keep it together until the house is sold, she gets the bonus. If she obstructs, she pays the full amount.

It's hard when you have so little leverage. At this stage of a dissolved relationship, a lot of the communication tools don't tend to work so well. You have to use negotiation and bargaining skills to get things done. What is important to her? If it's money, see if there is a way you can incentivize her. This might have to happen through the Ls. For example, her L needs to tell her, "If you don't do xyz, then abc is going to happen, and that's not good for you. SES is going to get a bigger share of the pie, so this is in your favor." That's what N/BPDx's L did. He told his client that if he kept turning down every offer I put on the table, then the judge would make a decision and it would be less favorable than what I was offering. It took my L a lot of skill to get that to go down, though. They have to be good negotiators and be able to bluff and bluster. Which here in the US seems to be the hallmark of a good L.

[SES]

Thanks everyone.   I am realising I have bitten off more than I can chew.  I am totally tired today, I was in bed at 730pm (UK time). Yes, she won't pay.  It is taking its toll on me though.  I need to reclaim my energy.

I'd love to move out, but that is what she wants... .me to move out.  The house won't sell then, unless I took her to court.  Lawyer says don't move put for any reason. 

Well, tomorrow might be better! Fingers crossed.

Thanks everyone,  as always you have helped.

   

[SES]

Well, I paid the mortgage in the end, and I think I have given up on trying to negotiate,  or make her, paying bills. 

Any suggestions as to why she hasn't moved out? 

She has a "partner" of over one year now (her affair). She seems set on stating.  She sabotaged a viewing on our house recently.   She has enough salary to rent somewhere,  while we wait to sell. She spends half the week at her partners,  and the other half at home with the kids,  and me (although I go to ground on these days).

[momtara]

Sometimes you can get really specific orders - when and where pickups are, who gets the kids for various holidays... .and perhaps put in penalties if they aren't followed.

[SES]

Thanks Momtara, 

Yes, court might be the only option.  She seems set on staying in the family home.  Her ideal probably would be that i moved out.  Lawyer tells me to stay put, else house will never sell, and child access will be a problem for me.  She remains in her affair... .now referred to as her partner,  and stays with him half the week.  She/they could afford to set up home... .But she hasn't,  and remains in the house... .With me! 

It is rather strained,  and unpleasant... .  I just don't know why she doesn't move on? 

[rarsweet]

Because she wants to have her cake and eat it too.

[SES]

Thanks... .  Yep, that probably sums it up!

I will be posting on here of a long time!

[livednlearned]

Any suggestions as to why she hasn't moved out? 

Is it possible her lawyer gave her the same advice you received?

[SES]

Livednlearned... .  Yes, probably the answer too...    Stalemate... .  We are stuck together! 

Hopefully the house sells soon.

[ForeverDad]

Any suggestions as to why she hasn't moved out?

Is it possible her lawyer gave her the same advice you received?

Quite likely, her benefits would be (1) free residence, (2) delay the sale and the overall case as long as possible since it is favorable to her and (3) not give up her claims to the children (long term leverage) and possible child support.

As much as you are disrespected and rejected now, her staying could also be a form of Negative Engagement.

In my divorce my ex ignored and delayed as much as she could since the temp order for custody and child support was very favorable to her.  What my lawyer estimated to be a 7-9 month case became a 23.5 month case.  The one small thing in my favor was that I had protection when we separated and so I got the house for the first few months and by the time the TPO ended I had filed for divorce and she never tried to come back.  So I didn't have a problem with prying an ex out of the house.

You are very unlikely to be able to reason with her about this, so seek resolution with limits and practical solutions in court.  Court is now The Authority, though a bit reluctant to act and typically with minimal actions.

Can the house be shown when she's not there?  Does she have the ability to veto a showing?  If so, court needs to address that.

[livednlearned]

My current SO has a stipulation in his divorce contract that says if the two of them do not use three realtors listed in their contract, he gets to select one. It also says that she must pay half of all costs to prepare the house for showing (then includes a list of those things). If either party fails to pay, those costs come out of the proceeds from the sale of the house. The last thing I remember it says -- that if an offer is made within 5% of the asking price, SO can determine whether the offer goes forward without her consent.

He had the upper hand in their divorce to some extent because my state has alienation of affection laws. So this might not work for you -- but it does signal some things you can do to try and forecast potential points of conflict. You're basically trying to write the "authority" into the contract so that you can go to court and force the issue, if necessary.

I wish I had been more assertive and canny when it came to the house stuff. I mistakenly thought that N/BPDx would be glad I gave him the house. I failed to realize the part about negative engagement, and it cost me a lot of money and three trips to court just to give him the house and get my name off the mortgage.

Lived and learned!

[ForeverDad]

Also, don't 'gift away' any leverage you might have now.  For example, if she is owed any money from the divorce, make sure it is held in ESCROW until the terms of the divorce are fulfilled.  If you do your obligations and pay her off and then afterward ask her to comply with her obligations you can guess how she'd respond.  Make sure you hold onto something she wants or have firm consequences for non-compliance so it will be LEVERAGE or incentive for her to (eventually) comply.

[SES]

Thanks foreverdad and livednlearned... .

I am determined to stay put... If I leave, no leverage at all, and I'll be prevented from access to the kids most likely.   

You both went through it.  It must have been incredibly hard on you both.  It is hard,  with some days harder than others.  Thanks for your support.

[ForeverDad]

Are you prepared to handle false allegations?  All she would have to do is claim you did something bad and a court could easily decide to separate you two and if she was the accusing one, then you could be the one told to leave.

Understand that there are a few words you'll come across if allegations are made.  This isn't a complete list, perhaps not totally accurate, it's just what I've concluded over the years.

• Founded - court or agency concluded you did it



• Unfounded - court or agency concluded you did not it



• Unsubstantiated - case is closed as though nothing happened, the accuser isn't punished, the accuser is free to make more allegations, this is the most common



• Not credible - passive court-speak for "Liar!", generally you'll never hear anything stronger than that.

[SES]

Yes, it worries me.  She made some to the Police at Christmas,  which they felt were unsubstantiated.   I still audio record when I'm at home.  I avoid her when we are both at home,  I stay in my bedroom.   

She sends texts saying she is scared of me, and more recently that my daughter is scared of me. 

[livednlearned]

She sends texts saying she is scared of me, and more recently that my daughter is scared of me. 

I received messages like these too. Does your D seem at all like she is scared of you? It's possible that your wife is trying to convince your D to be scared of you. My ex tried to convince S13 that my new SO was a pedophile, and that he (N/BPDx) would come with my former step-son to beat him up.   

If your ex feels you are dangerous, she is going to look for facts to back up those feelings. Keep receipts, too. When someone makes false allegations and the facts don't line up (for example, she says you were at the house when you can prove with a receipt that you were across town buying lunch), it undermines their credibility and the attention swivels to them as the perpetrator.

[SES]

Hi,

My D isn't scared of me... However, she was a daddy's girl... .and since the separation isn't anymore... .She is more distant. My wife had taunted me saying she isn't a daddy's girl anymore.  The change in my relationship with her mightier a product of the separation,  but could be alienation.  If I'm in my room when it's my wife turn to care fir the kids, my son usually comes to see me, but my daughter rarely does. 

My D (5) is struggling at school,  crying a lot, and hitting out.   She complains of missing her mum at school,  but not me.  I feel sad about this as it might be about her attachment to me and her mum.  Any ideas on this one?

I said to my kids tthat I'd do anything for them... .my son (7) asked me if I'd help him kill himself.   This makes me feel incredibly sad.  My wife's response initially was good... ."that's sad, it must have been hard for you and him".  But was followed by, "perhaps you should be nicer to me, and stop asking the kids to take sides" (a more expected response).

I worry about further allegations.   I keep receipts already, and will do more so now.  I audio record everything in the house. I remain worried of the risk she still poses.

Thanks again.