Were you presenting a false self?

[Depression = 72% of members]

Happiness is awesome, but like Blimblam said, it's just one part of the wide variety of the human experience. Sweeping our pain, shame, shortcomings, fears, etc. under the rug in favor of feeling happy and "empowered" all the time is not genuinely empowering, and certainly doesn't allow for much enlightenment, growth, or change.

Plus, what would happiness and joy be without pain and sadness?

Yes, we can't be happy unless we're sad, otherwise we'd have nothing to compare it to.  I did sad when I was with her, then I did really sad after I left, and having worked through all of that it's time for happy, along with a greater sense of gratitude for my life; we value things more when we lose them and then get them back.  And sweeping pain, shame, shortcomings and fears under the rug would just be more denial, like standing in your garden chanting "there's no weeds, there's no weeds".  If there are weeds there we need to pull them out, but while we're at we can plant new things and continue digging, not expecting surprises but who knows?  One day at a time, and you guys go deep, thanks for the new understandings.

[fromheeltoheal]

Happiness is awesome, but like Blimblam said, it's just one part of the wide variety of the human experience. Sweeping our pain, shame, shortcomings, fears, etc. under the rug in favor of feeling happy and "empowered" all the time is not genuinely empowering, and certainly doesn't allow for much enlightenment, growth, or change.

Plus, what would happiness and joy be without pain and sadness?

Yes, we can't be happy unless we're sad, otherwise we'd have nothing to compare it to.  I did sad when I was with her, then I did really sad after I left, and having worked through all of that it's time for happy, along with a greater sense of gratitude for my life; we value things more when we lose them and then get them back.  And sweeping pain, shame, shortcomings and fears under the rug would just be more denial, like standing in your garden chanting "there's no weeds, there's no weeds".  If there are weeds there we need to pull them out, but while we're at we can plant new things and continue digging, not expecting surprises but who knows?  One day at a time, and you guys go deep, thanks for the new understandings.

[jhkbuzz]

I did become more "confident and capable" - for a while.  And I don't mean to cast this in a positive light.  I think her idealization of my false self created a bit of a monster in me - it encouraged me to be too dominant in the r/s. When she rejected my false self - or pushed me off the pedestal - or devalued me - or whatever you want to name it - when she started going outside our r/s (and cheating) is when my confidence and self esteem was rapidly stripped away.  

But the false self doesn't die an easy death - I redoubled my efforts, confident that I could solve this problem the way I solved all my other problems - with persistence, with intelligence, and through sheer force of will.

Mmhmmm.  

My relationship played out similarly, jhkbuzz although a few details of course differ (e.g., my brand of 'caretaking' involves submissive compliance). Like you, when I got pushed off my pedestal, I just pushed harder, refusing to accept defeat - this has to work, it worked before! - until finally, I knew what it was like to be truly and thoroughly beaten, defenseless, and vulnerable.

YES^ "This has to work, it worked before - until finally, I knew what it was like to be truly and thoroughly beaten, defenseless, and vulnerable."

Ohmigod... .you mean all the "parenting" I did for her "vulnerable child" was what I always wanted for myself?  WOW.  Just, wow, wow, and wow again.

Yes.

As a child, when you were being a Little Parent, didn't your heart and soul just yearn for someone to take care of you? Did you wish someone would love, accept, understand, and validate you for who you were and who you wanted to be?

Did anyone ever fulfill those needs?

I'm not sure... .I grew up in a two parent family... .mom was definitely "in charge" and definitely very "adult." But she was angry a lot, and hit us a lot too - so I spent an awful lot of time doing things to try to make her happy. It was definitely a survival strategy... .

The idea that the "false self" is what we created very early on to please our caregiver - that we molded our little selves into what we perceived would "please" them - resonates with me. I feel it somewhere deep down and long ago - and it was this false self that I unconsciously presented to my ex .  How interesting that my strength, my "capable-ness", my independence, my intelligence - were all things that my mother valued in me.

How interesting indeed.  This sounds like something that definitely warrants deeper exploration.

A topic for my T... .

And my false self was reinforced when it appeared to be what she wanted... .I became even stronger, more capable, more of the problem solver in the r/s... .while she regressed further and further.

Exactly. The borderline attaches to that false self you're projecting, and then adapts him-/herself accordingly.

Without a stable sense of self, borderlines are always looking to their environment for cues on "who" to be. (This is why they can seem to have different "personalities" in different relationships.) It's like they keep thinking, "Maybe this self will be The One!" But, as you well know, that can't be sustained. Eventually resentment, disillusionment, and disappointment build up. The borderline realizes that this borrowed 'self' doesn't work any better than all the past borrowed selves. Instead of the idealized "savior," the partner now becomes the dumping ground for all of the borderline's deep-seated resentment, negativity, and "badness."

I think that this is at the heart of why we struggle through these breakups... ."oh how the mighty have fallen." Emotionally and mentally we simply can't comprehend how far the pendulum has swung in the opposite direcction.

That dynamic - that imbalance of power - is eventually what destroyed the r/s on both sides.  I began to resent the load I was carrying.  And she began to resent feeling like a child.

I can only turn again to 2010's eloquent words on this subject--

Waifs will attach to those they perceive to be dominant (usually "rescuer". The borderline then cries foul when their submissiveness becomes so extreme and equality in the relationship is so askew that it gives the partner an appearance of taskmaster, and the borderline a reasonable "out" based on their inner persecutorial ideas of reference.

It's completely normal to expect an adult partner to carry their fair share of the load in a relationship. Unless, of course, you're dealing with a pwBPD.  

The thing to look at, then, is why you are drawn to this "one-up, one-down" relationship dynamic - with the assumption/expectation that putting in time, effort, and love will eventually "pull" the other person up to the same level - instead of entering into relationships on equal footing and growing together.

You know, I have never been in a relationship like this before. It was definitely codependent - but my T thinks that I am neither codependent or a rescuer... .she thinks my SD (who was 15 when the cheating started, and, if you have a daughter, you know how dicey these teenage years can be) brought out my protectiveness.  Indeed, I am very protective.  I couldn't stand the idea of asking my ex to leave and watching my SD go with her.  God knows what parade of men (or god knows what else) my SD would have had to live through .

And I still don't regret not ending the r/s earlier.  The choice was kind of stark: I suffer, or my SD suffers. Today, she appears to be a happy, whole young woman who is in her second year of college. I am proud of the fact that I am a large part of the reason for that.

As for the one-up position: I think I might be a little guilty of that - but I can honestly say that my strengths (dealing with the practical side of life) seemed, in the beginning, balanced by her strengths (warm, intuitive, and very, very good with people).  As a native New Yorker I am a little rough around the edges, and I really learned a lot from her about how to handle people - and not always bulldoze my way through to get what I wanted. So it seemed to me when we met that we were polar opposites - and would compliment one another very well.

It just seemed that, over time, her "childishness" became more extreme - and I therefore kind of did the same on the opposite side of the spectrum. I became more dominant, worked harder to carry the load, and remained ridiculously hopeful and persistent.

[going places]

Someone mentioned on a thread that what we presented to our exes was a false self, which they then attached to.  I fought that at first, no! I said to myself, I was real, open and honest with her, she got the real me.  Well was I?  I thought so then and I more or less think so now, but digging some, we try and make good first impressions with people, we try and put our best foot forward, accentuate our strengths, try to be liked, all well and good, but is that a false self?  Is that lying?  I say no, within context.  I was attracted to her, there was sexual tension between us and I was nervous, but that didn't last very long, maybe a week, then we had sex, I got comfortable, and it was off to the races.  False self?  I say not, but how about you guys?

For me personally? There was no 'false self'.

My motto is "You get what you get and you don't throw a fit".

I am honest and open... .out of the gate.

Now, 25 years ago when I met the ex, we were young and stupid.

Drinking , Sex, and 'fun" was all that life revolved around.

Then we had 3 kids in 4 years... .and I grew up, and he didn't / couldn't / wouldn't.

Today, as a full grown adult? There is NO WAY I would have sexual relations with anyone I was 'dating'.

Sorry, I'm not a car, you don't get a free test ride.

Sorry, not sorry.

I've been focusing on that now, in fact it's become fun to blurt out my truth early, maybe right after I meet someone, and sometimes it's considered Too Much Information, sometimes it's met with a frown and no reciprocation, and sometimes someone lights up, gets comfortable, and shares what's going on with them, a real connection is born.  Of course it's context-specific, someone says hello how are you we don't want to be blurting out the early trauma we're still processing, it's socially unacceptable, but let's transcend the small talk shall we, and get real?  It's about having a clue about what to say when, but for me it serves double purpose: it weeds out people I don't necessarily want to know better early and it's doing what I want to be doing, being real.

Thoughts?

The way I am handling my life is this:

When I cross over the Georgia / Florida state line to move permenately to Florida, I am gonna drop my past on the state line.

What happened in my past, is that. Past.

IF I form a new relationship with someone, I do not want to rehash the old.

I do not want to pour 'new wine into an old wineskin' any more than I would pour old wine into a new wineskin.

New wine = New skin.

Maybe I am wrong... .we'll find out.

[Blimblam]

Going places,


You said your motto is, "you get what you get don't throw a fit."  Who is saying what essentially, stop whinning, and who is it that is whining?

Why is the child whining? And why is the child not allowed to whine?

[going places]

Going places,


You said your motto is, "you get what you get don't throw a fit."  Who is saying what essentially, stop whinning, and who is it that is whining?

Why is the child whining? And why is the child not allowed to whine?

Is this a question?

The motto: You GET what you GET and you don't throw a fit. It means:

I am open and honest.

I hide nothing back, I do not put on an act to 'attract' / or try to impress others.

I do not try to be someone I am not.

I am straight forward, no wishy washy, no word games (talk big talk to try to talk circles around people).

Yes means yes and No means no.

I am real out of the gate.

The "don't throw a fit" part comes into play when you chose to be friends with me, or in a relationship with me.

I was honest and open out of the gate... .don't come at me later and say "well I don't like ______ or I find _____ unattractive or I don't want to be your friend / more because of ________".

Yes, relationships grow and evolve.

But if you met me and you knew on the second date that I am afraid of heights, after 20 years of marriage, don't be pissed off and ready to file of divorce because I won't live on the top floor of the Sears Tower. You KNEW that when you met me... .

Yeah, that's the "don't throw a fit".

Side note: My kids were NOT allowed to whine.

I made them stop. And talk to me in their voice.

I would not respond to whining, nor would I tolerate it.

Whining is manipulation.

Unacceptable.

[Blimblam]

The manor in which the false self decieves the ego from confronting trauma and the way we seem to fall into patterns to bring about a confrontation where the ego confronts the inner trauma once again, is exemplified by the archetype of the trickster, as seen in Native American religions, pagan indo European religions and african religions.  The trickster is the deciever and the deceived both at once.

[Survived?]

Thank you all for sharing so many “aha” moments.  So much expressed in this thread -  grand slam after grand slam.  Together, just maybe you guys have written a best seller on BPD and Co-dependency.

I am right there with all of you on some level or another. 14 months out, and oh the mighty have fallen hard - with a D13 caught in hell.

When the student is ready the teacher/s will appear.  Thanks for helping me pick up the pieces in my quest for authenticity.  One day at a time!     

[Mutt]

This is a worthwhile topic and the thread is lock. A new and similar topic may be created.