I was supposed to commend her for being kind?

[new2pain]

Have had lc with exBPDgf for about a week, she invites me to lunch and while there she tells me she is going to her parents for the day and wants to come pick up the dog and take her. The dog is 10 years old and was hers but the dog has lived with me for the last 8 months and when she left in the end of december left the dog because as she says the dog loves me more, and I am better to her than she could be. This causght me off guard and I guess it showed on my face, I dont think her parents know that she left me, and it felt like she wanted to take the dog just to keep up the perception, then she tells me how she has some girl she met "while out" staying with her because she is a travelling nurse and pregnant and had no where to go... .again guess the look on my face got the better of me, since although she has replacement that she denys is a relationship, and moved back into her own house because she just needed to be alone she now has someone living with her.  I tried to keep the conversation away from this as lunch was really going well but she kept pushing me... .ugh,

So I told her why this was frustrating her response was I should acknowledge she was being kind hearted! I didnt say it but KIND you trash our relationship, and im supposed to be impresed you let some pregnant woman you met in a bar live at your house, while im alone in the house we picked out for us... .

Lunch actually ended on not a bad note, later that evening she tells me she is taking her nephews to a spurs game, I tell her she is a good aunt and they are lucky... .Her response "Nah, I just make you mad" and thats the last I have heard from her...   MY T says I am her healthiest patient, cant imagine what goes through the others heads, cause this is starting to drive me crazy.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Cat Familiar]

Yes, I think the BPD brings so much shame and self-loathing that they want to be constantly patted on the back and told how good they are for the most insignificant things. It gets a little much when they're so oblivious to all their unkindness.   

[ColdEthyl]

Yep... .it's a thing sorry hun that you are dealing with this.

[new2pain]

It is soo frustrating that she is literaly oblivious to the pain she has caused and is causing.  I really do not think she has a clue that she is even doing it until its pointed out to her, and then Im like AC/DC Back in Black.

[ColdEthyl]

Most of the time they don't, and when they do that shame is so strong it makes them fight and try to reject the truth. 

[new2pain]

I know its up to her to deal with shame, but is there a way to help with this process... Looking back on last 2 weeks seems like a lot of the projection from her, ie... .her telling me I thought she was a whore and shouldnt want to be with her, telling me she wants to erase her life and other comments like that are all shame based.

[ColdEthyl]

Not really, hun. I have asked that quite a few times myself, but it's part of who they are. We can be empathetic, supportive... .but without some serious therapy that self-loathing and shame will be a constant.

[new2pain]

So sad.  I know she recognizes that in her self and has been going to T but just seems to not be able to handle the truth and make the changes she acknowledges.  Im sure someone else here has said, although she does not like who she is it is less scary than doing what she needs to do to change.

Seems like she even has a great deal of push/pull within herself.

[ColdEthyl]

Seems like she even has a great deal of push/pull within herself.

They really really do. It's easy for us to forget that when we are in the middle of barrages or dysregulations, but that's a complete truth you just said. My H displays this push/pull within himself in a variety of ways... .from promising to do things for people when he knows he probably won't (and then shames himself for it), to saying how awesome he is one moment, and how useless the next.

I cannot imagine what it's like for him. I know his fight or flight is broken, I know he has paranoia/racing thoughts, etc. everyday. Another good example is my H didn't speak to his parents for four months because he had a dream that the next time he saw his father would be the last time. e was in essence trying to protect them from some sort of prophecy and the whole time causing himself and them pain. He did see him recently... and he is still alive. Still... .he's afraid.

When we step back and look at exactly what they deal with in and out... .I do not envy them. It must suck to be that unsure of everything all of the time.

[new2pain]

I really can not imagine what it must be like for them, it does make me sad and wish that I could do something, more than just be there for her as much as she will allow herself to allow me to be.

Putting that much belief into a dream, and thinking if he just doesnt see his dad will prevent that from being the last time, can't imagine the inner turmoil that must create.  Do his parents know about BPD?

[ColdEthyl]

They do now. His mom and I recently started speaking about it. They knew he had issues that started when he was a teen (he was raped repeatedly by a family friend from about 10 to 13) but they did not know why. After discussing it with her quite a bit... .it has helped her understand his behaviors better, and why he does things. Also, I've gotten a bit more insight on his dad before the Alzheimer's... .similar characteristics. It's also given her relief to know it wasn't anything she was doing wrong, and we now talk about ways to help him. For instance, she's moving out of state (big trigger for him) and asked me to bring her some boxes this weekend. Instead of asking him to go, she suggested just telling him I am going over there to drop it off, and let him decide whether or not he will come.

I wish I could do something, too. I think that's how people like us get into r/s like this. We want to help... .to protect... .and the truth of it is there is only so much we can do. The rest is up to them.

[new2pain]

Ugh. GF was sexually assaulted by uncle at young age. Thats where I focus my anger as he was never held accountable. She is so successful with her career and able to compartmentalize the different parts of her life, I dont think her parents even know there is a proble.  Like her wanting to bring dog to her parents, they know dog is with me but dont know were broke up, this would keep them in dark even longer...

Really would like to talk aabout it with her dad, but think since i am already black it would just blow up in my face, with her further thinking she cant trust me... .Makes me feel trapped

[new2pain]

So no contact for about 2 days, she texts yesterday asks what Im doing, I tell her. We text a little, seems like she has opened door a little, so I ask if she would like to go for motorcycle ride Sunday and she just stops responding...

Its now 1pm Sunday and I still haven't heard from her, soo confusing!

She really cant be this oblivious to the pain and confusion she causes, is it really BPD or is she just evil? Im starting to not be sure.

[Mike-X]

So no contact for about 2 days, she texts yesterday asks what Im doing, I tell her. We text a little, seems like she has opened door a little, so I ask if she would like to go for motorcycle ride Sunday and she just stops responding...

Its now 1pm Sunday and I still haven't heard from her, soo confusing!

She really cant be this oblivious to the pain and confusion she causes, is it really BPD or is she just evil? Im starting to not be sure.

I am sorry that you are dealing with the frustration and confusion. We certainly don't know what is going on in her mind. Maybe she is not aware of her causing this pain and confusion. However maybe she is at some level or more so at some points in time. Maybe her lack of contact is related to her guilt and shame for the recent events, including possibly not telling her parents about the separation, and seeing your pain and frustration. Maybe she does feel like she is not worthy of your love and attention and has moments where she tries to stay away so that you can move on. So maybe she is not trying to be manipulative and evil. Maybe this is just her disordered way of dealing with her shame, guilt, and crushing low self-worth. But again without being able to read her mind, this is just speculation.

What have you read about depersonalization and radical acceptance? Have you read anything about BPD and dissociation?

Also, have you thought about you controlling or owning your feelings versus her controlling them? Maybe this is my misreading of your post, but the 'evil' comment seems to be placing control in her hands.

The mixed feelings and confusion that you have expressed and certainly understandable when interacting with someone with a damaging mental illness like Borderline Personality Disorder. I have dealt with my own mixed feelings and confusion, as have so many on these boards.

Just some of my thoughts... .it is good that you are here working through things with the rest of us.

[ColdEthyl]

So no contact for about 2 days, she texts yesterday asks what Im doing, I tell her. We text a little, seems like she has opened door a little, so I ask if she would like to go for motorcycle ride Sunday and she just stops responding...

Its now 1pm Sunday and I still haven't heard from her, soo confusing!

She really cant be this oblivious to the pain and confusion she causes, is it really BPD or is she just evil? Im starting to not be sure.

I'm going to echo what Mike-X has pointed out and add a little bit. Are they oblivious? No. But at the end of the day, their need to protect themselves over rides everything... .all the time... including our feelings. That's where the radical acceptance comes into play. There are certain elements of them that will always be there no matter what.

Think of a pwBPD is a square. With therapy, help etc... .you might be able to smooth out some of those corners... .but they will still be square.

[new2pain]

I am trying to not let her actions control me and Im trying to get on living my life. As much as I want her to be a part of it I know that is not something I can control.  

She did contact me yesterday and we did, meet at her parents house, go for a ride and spent some time at the zoo, seemed like we both had a good time, and neither of us brought up the relationship at all. We are supposed to see T together this evening and I didnt want to give her a reason to paint me black... .not that she needs one.

We ended the evening on good terms, so trying not to appear to be "pushing"  her I did not contact her the rest of the night.

I did send a good morning text to which she has not responded, so now Im worried she wont come to appointment with T.

I know its impossible to rationalize what an irrational person is thinking, but knowing that has not made it any easier.  I feel like I have a good grasp on accepting things as they are, and if I wasnt able to seperate the PD from her, I would have 0 hope.

[ColdEthyl]

I am trying to not let her actions control me and Im trying to get on living my life. As much as I want her to be a part of it I know that is not something I can control.  

She did contact me yesterday and we did, meet at her parents house, go for a ride and spent some time at the zoo, seemed like we both had a good time, and neither of us brought up the relationship at all. We are supposed to see T together this evening and I didnt want to give her a reason to paint me black... .not that she needs one.

We ended the evening on good terms, so trying not to appear to be "pushing"  her I did not contact her the rest of the night.

I did send a good morning text to which she has not responded, so now Im worried she wont come to appointment with T.

I know its impossible to rationalize what an irrational person is thinking, but knowing that has not made it any easier.  I feel like I have a good grasp on accepting things as they are, and if I wasnt able to seperate the PD from her, I would have 0 hope.

It take a lot of time and practice on our ends of things to get to where we are trying to get to. I've been working the lessons for a year, and I see improvements in our r/s but there's still work to be done. If I wasn't able to separate the PD from my H... .I wouldn't be here so I totally understand /hugs

[new2pain]

Just wish I knew what all the red flags were about BPD before she moved out, think the lessons would have been a lot more applicable and easier to use. I keep being reminded that she is not in control, but she does contol when and where interaction will take place... .

So other than me being able to choose when enough is enough, isint she in control?

[ColdEthyl]

They have as much control as we allow. In your example, you are speaking about when and where you guys meet. As you said, you do in fact have control of whether or not you go when she dictates. You have control over whether or not to wait on her, to call her etc etc. and she has control over her actions.

We have control of ours, and they do of theirs. A pwBPD DOES have control over their actions, but the DRIVER of their actions is BPD. The driver knows where their mind is going, and the weird route they are taking to get there.

[new2pain]

I agree to a point but confused about going or calling when she wants... .I have made it a point to not sit around and wait for her calls or to not make or cancel plans hoping she would call. But if I am trying to make this work, and she calls or wants to see me, should I not see her, if its not altering my plans?

When she is being mean or projecting, I do not contact her but wait for her contact and then see how it goes.

Reading everything I can find but confised because I dont want to chase her, dont want to abandon her, dont want to be manipulative by having NC when she is initiating contact?

To me this is what makes it so much harder living apart.

[ColdEthyl]

I agree to a point but confused about going or calling when she wants... .I have made it a point to not sit around and wait for her calls or to not make or cancel plans hoping she would call. But if I am trying to make this work, and she calls or wants to see me, should I not see her, if its not altering my plans?

When she is being mean or projecting, I do not contact her but wait for her contact and then see how it goes.

Reading everything I can find but confised because I dont want to chase her, dont want to abandon her, dont want to be manipulative by having NC when she is initiating contact?

To me this is what makes it so much harder living apart.

If she wants to see you, and you are available, I don't see why you shouldn't. That's not chasing her. Chasing her would be cancelling plans, etc.

If you are referring to her controlling your emotions, I believe Mike-x was referring to you being hurt she didn't text in the am and being worried she might be upset again, and you didn't know if you should respond or not. That's hard to do because I was where you are... .waiting for my now dBPDh to call/text and sometimes it would be days... .a week. I did put all of me into waiting for him to call or text and it would hurt when he didn't, and I would wrestle with myself whether or not to call or text. It wasn't a very good place to be, and spoke a lot about how I felt about myself.

[new2pain]

I think im getting better about being in control of my emotions when it comes to waiting to see if she will respond or not, in the past I would have been chasing; texting, calling. Now its just annoying and I look here for answers/help. Frustrating more than normal today, since yesterday was good day, and T had changed schedule for us to go in at 7pm since she was claiming hard to go during work day and im not sure if she is going to follow through and go or not

[Fionasofar]

Thank you tjay for the insight .

I get the idea what you are trying to say.

I will work on myself and read about BPD as much as I can and will learn the tools as in how to validate and not to invalidate .

Thankyou for the support ❤

[Mike-X]

So no contact for about 2 days, she texts yesterday asks what Im doing, I tell her. We text a little, seems like she has opened door a little, so I ask if she would like to go for motorcycle ride Sunday and she just stops responding...

Its now 1pm Sunday and I still haven't heard from her, soo confusing!

She really cant be this oblivious to the pain and confusion she causes, is it really BPD or is she just evil? Im starting to not be sure.

Thanks ColdEthyl. Yes, I was referring to the quoted exchange above and the comment that "She really can't be this oblivious to the pain and confusions she causes... ."

Saying that she causes the pain and confusion puts the control over your pain and confusion in her hands. Regardless of whether she is intending to cause pain and confusion or not, the experience of the pain and confusion is within you. It is your pain and confusion, and you can learn to control it. Much like whatever it was in her that led her to run from the relationship (e.g., overwhelming anxiety) is hers and hers to manage/control or not. Certainly she can do things to trigger emotional responses from you, but because the responses are within you, you can motivate change within yourself to manage your emotional reactions to the things that she does or doesn't do. If she indeed had total control of your emotions, then you would be helpless puppet to her desires, but you are not because you have the ultimate control over your emotions.

Are you seeing a therapist? Have you read about depersonalization and radical acceptance?

[Mike-X]

I think im getting better about being in control of my emotions when it comes to waiting to see if she will respond or not, in the past I would have been chasing; texting, calling. Now its just annoying and I look here for answers/help. Frustrating more than normal today, since yesterday was good day, and T had changed schedule for us to go in at 7pm since she was claiming hard to go during work day and im not sure if she is going to follow through and go or not

Yes! You have control.

[new2pain]

At 6:10 I get a text message from her work phone that she doesnt have her phone... .that was nice but I guess she didnt think about it till then? (If I would have tried work phone Im sure, I would have been told I was pushing her)She wanted to let me know she had a late call and may not make appointment. I know thats true because I heard the radio traffic. Ugh so discouraging but I tried to be upbeat and told her Im sure it would be fine if she showed up late, since we never started on time anyway.  Talked a little about call, kept it conflict free... .hope she shows

[Mike-X]

At 6:10 I get a text message from her work phone that she doesnt have her phone... .that was nice but I guess she didnt think about it till then? (If I would have tried work phone Im sure, I would have been told I was pushing her)She wanted to let me know she had a late call and may not make appointment. I know thats true because I heard the radio traffic. Ugh so discouraging but I tried to be upbeat and told her Im sure it would be fine if she showed up late, since we never started on time anyway.  Talked a little about call, kept it conflict free... .hope she shows

I hope she makes it.

[new2pain]

Thanks.

Her call kept her at work until after appointment was over, I know this was true because I see reports from her agency. While I was at appointment T said she could see us together on friday, I texted and asked her if it was good with her and she responded right away that it was... .So maybe Im being overly optimistic but thinking its good. Guess I will see how this week goes, so far a mix of dissapointment and optimism, but Im accepting that is the norm when involved with BPD

[ColdEthyl]

Thanks.

Her call kept her at work until after appointment was over, I know this was true because I see reports from her agency. While I was at appointment T said she could see us together on friday, I texted and asked her if it was good with her and she responded right away that it was... .So maybe Im being overly optimistic but thinking its good. Guess I will see how this week goes, so far a mix of dissapointment and optimism, but Im accepting that is the norm when involved with BPD

What I want you to try to work on is not getting disappointed. You are putting a lot of your hopes into her, and it's causing you pain. Most of the time they will flake out... .prepare yourself for that. The highs and lows you are experiencing do not have to be the norm. Radically accept that they are undependable.

[Mike-X]

Thanks.

Her call kept her at work until after appointment was over, I know this was true because I see reports from her agency. While I was at appointment T said she could see us together on friday, I texted and asked her if it was good with her and she responded right away that it was... .So maybe Im being overly optimistic but thinking its good. Guess I will see how this week goes, so far a mix of dissapointment and optimism, but Im accepting that is the norm when involved with BPD

Thanks for the update. Was the session good for you?