If it wasn't so tragic it would be funny

[Ripped Heart]

Seems exBPDgf can't go longer than a week without contacting me. Fortunately, the messages she does send are nice, and appear to be caring.

This weeks installment was to let me know she's gone out and bought a gift for me because I'm special to her and she wants to show her appreciation for everything I did for her.

Sounds perfectly reasonable and I've remained very LC after a period of NC. I'm at a stage now where I dont contact her and leave the contact down to her. Usually exchange some pleasantries (she is seeing if I'm still on the hook) and then maybe nothing for a week before she contacts again.

The gift thing caught me a little off guard because as much as I dont want to believe it, there is always a hidden agenda. Tonight I found out what it was. I got an email through from one of the internet loan companies. It was one she considered before but I managed to talk her out of it given the amount of debt she is in with others. I know she is meeting replacement for the first time this weekend so I guess she felt she needed money (lots of it) to impress him.

So with her new found disposable wealth, she has bought me a gift and is going to impress him, at least until the money runs out and she realises she has no possible way of paying it back.

Which basically means that the gift is her way of letting me know that if things turn south, she needs her favourite rescuer to step in and rescue her. Given that she is taking a huge risk financially, its not really and if but a when. What makes it funny is that everything she does is so predictable, even though she thinks she is being sneaky. What makes it tragic is that this pattern will continue her entire life and it does make me feel badly for her. Its where I can have empathy for pwBPD because its back to watching a slow motion car crash. You know its coming but powerless to do anything about it and it's through her own actions.

I do feel badly for her and I haven't responded yet, will probably do after the weekend. For now, its about taking care of me and my plans this weekend without the drama and chaos that will follow in subsequent texts if I respond now. A very different place to where I was a few months ago where I can now observe the chaos without feeling compelled to step in and sort it all out 

[jhkbuzz]

How wonderful to have that kind of clarity and detachment! 

[Mutt]

I do feel badly for her and I haven't responded yet, will probably do after the weekend. For now, its about taking care of me and my plans this weekend without the drama and chaos that will follow in subsequent texts if I respond now. A very different place to where I was a few months ago where I can now observe the chaos without feeling compelled to step in and sort it all out  

That's it.

Why risk drama and chaos if you respond on Fri? If she gets triggered it can wait until after the weekend.

[Ripped Heart]

Thanks mutt and jhk, for me it's about recognising the patterns and how this situation always plays out.

Usually it's just a text to see how things are and then once she knows I'm engaged in the discussion, the current crisis is added to the mix. A couple of weeks ago it started with a text to ask how I was and also my girls. Once answered, the crisis of the day was that her friend had pulled the plug on their vacation. She said it's because her friend was ill and needed surgery, though I suspect it may have had something to do with her friend chasing her for the money to pay her share and cancelling because it was impossible for her to do that. There was an intense anger towards her friend for cancelling and she needed me at the time to validate that her anger towards her friend was justified.

The fact that this time comes with a gift attached means it's a much bigger crisis. As to how I'm aware of the current situation, I spoke a couple of months ago about how when she set up her bills, we used my email address. That way anything bad that was being sent through, such as missed payments or people chasing, came to me. It was a way of managing the stress she was put under because I got the nasty things and she got the nice things. After we split, I started transferring everything back under her email address because it was no longer my responsibility (though to be fair it wasn't my responsibility in the first place but I did it to help limit the stress in her life)

When she was in trouble leading up to Christmas, you may remember I paid off all her bills in November and December so she would have the money to buy the gifts for her children. This was because she was looking at getting an online loan and given her current situation would have put her in more trouble. Given the fact that most of these charge a ridiculous 1000% interest, there was no possible way of her paying that back. So I stepped in, cleared her bills so she didn't have to do that but then the money she saved she bought herself things for the house and wasn't able to get the gifts for her kids anyway which ruined their Christmas (as she had told them in advance what they were getting) which in turn ruined her Christmas.

Whilst she was looking at online loans, she used my email address so that I could check them out and sort through what would be suitable and which were basically online loan sharks. I completely forgot about those until the other day when I got the email from one of them to thank her for her application, the loan had been approved and they were transferring the money to be paid back at 1200% interest. Given her current credit rating, the only place she can get a loan is from these online loan sharks, so that's how I know she has followed through on a loan she can't possibly pay back as the monthly payment is almost as much as her net salary without including all her bills.

Again, not my issue to deal with but explains the reason behind her buying me a gift because this is going to be big and she is set to lose a lot. By getting the gift and the sweet talk in her text, she needs me to believe she's turned a corner because she knows this is too big for her and given all that I did for her last year financially, she needs me on side so that when it does go wrong, she can run from her problems and I'll be there to take care of her again. The other reason is that she can hardly turn to a new fix who she is idealising at the moment and ask him (after they have just met) to pay off all her debts. Her previous bf before me, didn't do it but I did take care of her financially. So again, all of this is out of survival and need and not out of love and care.

The difference between me last year and me this is year is that I'm no longer enmeshed in the chaos. As to why it's important for me to know and understand isn't so I can jump in and save her, it's so I know what's coming and able to understand why. I think this is what trips a lot of people up when their ex's come back into their life after a period of NC. Because often their ex doesn't necessarily tell them the truth, old feelings and emotions are stirred up, buttons are pressed and then the drama surfaces once the hook has been activated. Understanding what is going on in the background before the buttons are attempted is really helping with my healing because I see the bigger picture, see the same patterns and essentially know that when my ex gets in contact or tries to recycle with me, there is always a financial element behind it. Given that she is always going to be in financial chaos, I'm always going to be a part of her life and she is always going to keep trying to come back for that reason.

So in terms of my acceptance, rather than expend my energy trying to keep her out of my life, I've made room for her in it but not on the level I once did. I'm there for her to talk to as I would be for any of my friends but my own boundaries now will not let me cross over to the point of being drawn back in. Because I do understand what my role was and I will still continue to help her where I feel I can but through talking through solutions with her rather than stepping in and doing. I don't like anyone to suffer so if I can offer support whilst she learns to stand on her own two feet, that's the person I will be.

[antelope]

Usually it's just a text to see how things are and then once she knows I'm engaged in the discussion, the current crisis is added to the mix.

The fact that this time comes with a gift attached means it's a much bigger crisis.

So again, all of this is out of survival and need and not out of love and care.

The difference between me last year and me this is year is that I'm no longer enmeshed in the chaos.

As to why it's important for me to know and understand isn't so I can jump in and save her, it's so I know what's coming and able to understand why.

Given that she is always going to be in financial chaos, I'm always going to be a part of her life and she is always going to keep trying to come back for that reason.


I don't like anyone to suffer so if I can offer support whilst she learns to stand on her own two feet, that's the person I will be.

why are you her checkbook?

why are paying her bills your obligation?

she obviously only gives a sh1t about you when she needs something... .

do you think if she saw you suffer she would so much as budge one inch or sacrifice anything to help you?

sorry to be a downer, but given these statements above, you are very much still under her FOG... .

does helping her really have anything to do with her as a person, or with you feeling better about yourself... .examine that dynamic carefully

has she changed or tried to make changes in any significant way?

remember: change nothing and nothing changes

she has shown you who she really is... .I recommend you stick to that, and stay completely away from her... .for good!

[jhkbuzz]

Given that she is always going to be in financial chaos, I'm always going to be a part of her life.

Why have you made this decision?

and she is always going to keep trying to come back for that reason.

Of COURSE she is!

So in terms of my acceptance, rather than expend my energy trying to keep her out of my life, I've made room for her.

Why? N/C is possible... .correct?

I'm there for her to talk to as I would be for any of my friends.

Why? It seems to me that a friendships consists of two people who are mutually trustworthy, loyal and dependable.  If this "friendship" is a one way street (as it certainly appears to be), then she isn't a friend - and there's something else going on here.


My own boundaries now will not let me cross over to the point of being drawn back in. Because I do understand what my role was and I will still continue to help her where I feel I can but through talking through solutions with her rather than stepping in and doing.

What was your role?  Parental?

I'm confused because it sounds like you were "stepping in and doing" just a few months ago?... .

I don't like anyone to suffer so if I can offer support whilst she learns to stand on her own two feet, that's the person I will be.

"I don't like anyone to suffer" is your "hook" and is what keeps you in this clearly one sided... .relationship is the wrong word to use here, but for lack of a better one that's what I'll go with.

Your thoughts about suffering are misguided. It sounds like you believe that suffering is an aberration to be avoided at all costs so we can enjoy endlessly happy, joyful lives.  This belief is incorrect - suffering is instructive and can produce growth.  You short circuit this natural learning for your ex... .not only when you step in to save, but when you step in with your "brainpower" and don't give her the opportunity to figure her own life out.

And as an aside:  do you have any evidence that she is learning to stand on her own two feet?  Because I see evidence of the opposite all over the place.

Ripped Heart, it sounds like the person you want to be is a "rescuer" - even though it costs you your peace of mind. (You wouldn't be posting if it didn't).  And it makes you a target for people who don't give a damn about what you want and need, but will take you for all you're worth.

[Ripped Heart]

why are you her checkbook?

I'm not her checkbook. I did a lot financially during our relationship, partly to help her out but also because she wanted to live together and get married. Her debts were easily solvable and I felt that if we were to move in together and get married, the last thing I wanted was to be responsible for her debts as well. Been there, done that so it was a way of helping her to help herself. As for the financial side of the relationship, I earn in a month what she earns in a year, considering I did spend time at her house too, it was only fair I contributed to things such as gas, electricity and food and although she didn't do the same when at mine, that was my own choice to contribute without expectation. Once the relationship ended, I did help her financially with her daughters birthday present but in terms of bills, I've supported her through dealing with them on her own without contributing to them financially.

why are paying her bills your obligation?

As above, with the main reason being that if I was going to move in to her house, I didn't want debt collectors knocking at the door. As the debts were not mine I refused to take responsibility for those. Instead, I concentrated on the things I did use when I was there and contributed that way, to help take the pressure off her so she had the money to start clearing her debts.

she obviously only gives a sh1t about you when she needs something... .

That's a very true statement and what we have to remember is that it is a similar pattern with pwBPD. It can be difficult to distinguish between the person and the illness and given that I chose to stay in a r/s with someone who was quite open about her diagnosis, it was my responsibility to try and understand and accept what was her and what was the illness. For example, if you were in a relationship with someone who had a disability, it's perfectly reasonable to be frustrated at times if that disability limits things you can do or if you have to over compensate in some areas. But you also have to understand that you chose to be in that relationship with that person and accept them for who they are. The differences between a lot of people on this site is that some were unaware of BPD until after the relationship, where I knew about her diagnosis from about 2 months in but it was my responsibility to gain an understanding of what this would entail, which I didn't do until things started to not make sense.

do you think if she saw you suffer she would so much as budge one inch or sacrifice anything to help you?

This was one of those things in my r/s that didn't make sense. I was in hospital with a life threatening illness and she got angry because it took the attention away from her. When d14's grandfather died, again she was angry because my attention was on d14 and helping her through a difficult time. So yes, I was aware of that and that's when I began looking for answers.

sorry to be a downer, but given these statements above, you are very much still under her FOG... .

Not at all, I don't feel obligated or guilty about saying no anymore. I choose to offer support where I can because of who I am and that's my choice to make. As for fear, that came when the r/s was going through major push/pull cycles. So now, my support for her is based on choice and I won't drop everything to rush in and rescue her. If I can offer support when she asks for it and I do, it's through my own choice and not because I have expectations or putting myself out. It's about accepting the situation as it is, understanding that there is a mental illness behind all of this which I have no control over but as long as I'm able to help where I can without sacrificing my own health and well being in the process, I will do, just as I would for anyone else, friends, family, work colleagues etc... My ex was a part of my life and my children's life and she still continues to be. Her actions are what ended the relationship and that is her responsibility. I probably have every right to hate her but that's also using up as much energy as loving her and that's my energy to own so I'm perfectly happy to care without caring too much or putting myself at risk.

does helping her really have anything to do with her as a person, or with you feeling better about yourself... .examine that dynamic carefully

Good question and something I've worked through a lot in Therapy myself. Based around my FOO, my rescuer tendencies came from a place of seeking approval. So much of what I did during the r/s was based around seeking that approval. I had an NPD father and an uBPDm who was often emotionally unavailable. I also raised my sister from a young age so in one sense became a care giver and in another was seeking that approval of my parents which was never going to happen. My r/s with exBPDgf turned into that of parent/child where she was the rebellious child and I was the parent trying to take care of her. There was also another side to that dynamic which triggered me where I was back trying to seek approval of my parents through exBPDgf's emotional unavailability.

Where I'm at now is that I simply don't care about that approval. It's not done to make me feel good. It's learning to accept who I am, where the boundary between healthy and unhealthy lay and harnessing my own qualities. So in that respect, being there to support her in the same way I would with friends of family is about her and if she learns something from it, that's all good, if she doesn't that's fine too. I'm always going to be someone who cares about others, to turn my back on that or to change that is not being right by myself. Learning to understand the reasons why and where the boundary lies to find that balance between healthy caring and unhealthy caring is what is most important.

has she changed or tried to make changes in any significant way?

remember: change nothing and nothing changes

In some ways she did, she sought help initially a few years ago, which is where the diagnosis came from and she gained a partial understanding of herself. What she didn't do was stay around long enough to learn the tools or follow it through. Late last year, she did try and make changes by trying to mirror everything I was doing. It might not seem much but for her to do that, wasn't so much about survival but that she was trying to make an effort. The only problem is that she can only keep things up for about 2-3 weeks at a time before she gives in.

she has shown you who she really is... .I recommend you stick to that, and stay completely away from her... .for good!

Yes, she has shown me who she is and I also know she isn't a malicious person at heart, She is someone with a mental health illness who probably finds life just as difficult as we do at times, if not more so. Separating the person from the illness and seeing them as whole is enough for me to keep my distance through boundaries but at the same time, I wouldn't turn my back on a person in trouble. What I have changed about myself is how I help that person and understand my own boundaries. Again, it's accepting that she is always going to be around in some capacity and choosing whether to expend my own energy running away and hiding or being able to say I'm here to listen and support but I refuse to get involved and drawn back in.

What you may see on these boards are people returning because a year or so out, their ex suddenly reappears. Some try again and end up here because the same patterns resurfaced and have to go through the healing process again, others feel triggered by the experience and it brings back all those old emotions and feelings, then there are others who are constantly fearing whether their ex will be back in touch again, despite the fact they have moved forward with their own lives. My choice is to remain in the reality to accept my ex as part of my life, to remember the good times we had and who is she as a whole, to want her to succeed in life and care enough about her that I do hope she finds happiness and maybe one day gets tired of it all and seeks the help she wants and needs. I also accept that I cannot control what she does or whether she does seek that help but that is not my responsibility anyway. What I can control is how I let her impact on my life, continue to work on keeping boundaries in place and continue to find peace in my own life.

[BorisAcusio]

"I don't like anyone to suffer" is your "hook" and is what keeps you in this clearly one sided... .relationship is the wrong word to use here, but for lack of a better one that's what I'll go with.

2010, used the label "interaction". Perhaps that's most apt definition.

[Ripped Heart]

Given that she is always going to be in financial chaos, I'm always going to be a part of her life.

Why have you made this decision?

Because this is part of acceptance. We had a relationship so she is always going to be part of my life, through memories of good times and bad times just as anyone you cross paths with in your life. Some people come in to our lives and teach us new things, we learn from all the interactions we have, whether it's a good experience or a bad one, someone always teaches us something just as we do to others. It's using those lessons in a positive light which help us to grow and develop along the way. So yes, she is always going to be a part of my life in some capacity, even if she isn't a physical presence.

So in terms of my acceptance, rather than expend my energy trying to keep her out of my life, I've made room for her.

Why? N/C is possible... .correct?

Been down the NC route before, it does work but that is for our own healing. It's not a defined solution rather than a protective element for our own well being. I went NC with my exN/BPDw immediately after our divorce. 3 years on and she still continues to reach out. Because I don't respond, she then tries to go through family, even to the point of trying to establish a relationship with my children. You cannot control the actions of others, only your own actions and every month when my exN/BPDw starts to resurface, I get little feelings of fear because she is relentless. I'm perfectly happy to remain NC with her, but when my own family start trying to shift the responsibility of her actions on to me, it's annoying and frustrating because that's not mine to own. This time around, I have acceptance that exBPDgf will be a part of my life and accommodated it for that. Again, I think what a lot of people miss is that we aren't talking about a romantic relationship, too many people hold on to anger for too long and that has an equally harmful effect. I don't feel anger or resentment towards my exBPDgf, I just view her as someone else who is a part of my life, the same way I would a work colleague or a friend.

I'm there for her to talk to as I would be for any of my friends.

Why? It seems to me that a friendships consists of two people who are mutually trustworthy, loyal and dependable.  If this "friendship" is a one way street (as it certainly appears to be), then she isn't a friend - and there's something else going on here.

There is a difference between talking to someone the way you would a friend or co-worker and actually being friends. Yes, friendships do consist on a mutual level but it doesn't mean you have to be cold or distant to someone you once had in your life. By doing so, are we not sinking to their level? For example, if someone is nasty towards you are the only options to walk away or be nasty back to them? Why would we choose to be cold towards someone if that isn't in our nature to be so? Why couldn't the option be to continue to be kind but to assert a boundary that you won't tolerate being spoken to in a certain way and that if that persists, you have no option than to take a step back. It's about remaining true to who you are as a person.

Perfect example is that my exBPDgf knew my exN/BPDw was from another country. Because of that, she hated, with a passion, everyone from that country. My exN/BPDw was nasty and abusive so that meant all people from that country are nasty and abusive. That to me is a little unfair because you could very well be from that country and it would mean exBPDgf has an instant resentment towards you. You are pre-judged on where you come from rather than who you are as an individual and as such, she wouldn't even have the time to get to know who you were as a person. There could be similarities between you and exN/BPDw in terms of liking the same music or watching the same TV programs. We all have a tendency to generalise from time to time but the difference for us is that we can take a step back and acknowledge it. Not all pwBPD are the same just as not all non-pwBPD are the same either.

We all sometimes make the mistake here of categorising pwBPD within the same group. It's true that many of us have had similar experiences based on the majority of traits associated with BPD as being similar. However, we can fail to recognise that these are individuals and tend to view other pwBPD through the experiences we had. I can categorically state that my exN/BPDw was one of the most abusive people I have ever known, in terms of emotional, physical and mental abuse and given both her and exBPDgf had a similar diagnosis, they are very different people but with core similarities. ExBPDgf wasn't violent, could come out with nasty comments at times but in the same respect would be devastated she said something because she felt she had no control over it and could be very apologetic. ExN/BPDw would come out with nasty comments and find a way to convince you that it was deserved and that it was all your fault.

In terms of friendships being one sided with exBPDgf, that's completely true as it is based on need. That's not her being nasty or uncaring, that's her not knowing any other way. It's my choice whether to recognise that as being part of her illness and accepting it as who she is. In terms of something else going on there, that's entirely true. If she is able to one day learn that not all people are the same and that there are good people out there, can that really be a bad thing. For me, it's about learning where that boundary lays between being supportive and who I am as a person to becoming a rescuer.

My own boundaries now will not let me cross over to the point of being drawn back in. Because I do understand what my role was and I will still continue to help her where I feel I can but through talking through solutions with her rather than stepping in and doing.

What was your role?  Parental?

I'm confused because it sounds like you were "stepping in and doing" just a few months ago?... .

A few months ago, I was stepping in and doing and that's how far I've come in my own changes. Recognising the lessons we can learn and making the changes we can in our own lives is fundamental to our healing. If we put all the blame on our ex's and don't accept our own responsibilities within the relationship we continue to repeat the same patterns. I've done it twice now so my focus in T over the past couple of months has been how to maintain my own qualities and who I am as a person but in the same respect being able to protect myself and understanding where the line is between healthy and unhealthy. There will be mistakes along the way and it is a continual learning process but I'm also becoming the person I want to be.

I don't like anyone to suffer so if I can offer support whilst she learns to stand on her own two feet, that's the person I will be.

"I don't like anyone to suffer" is your "hook" and is what keeps you in this clearly one sided... .relationship is the wrong word to use here, but for lack of a better one that's what I'll go with.

Your thoughts about suffering are misguided. It sounds like you believe that suffering is an aberration to be avoided at all costs so we can enjoy endlessly happy, joyful lives.  This belief is incorrect - suffering is instructive and can produce growth.  You short circuit this natural learning for your ex... .not only when you step in to save, but when you step in with your "brainpower" and don't give her the opportunity to figure her own life out.

And as an aside:  do you have any evidence that she is learning to stand on her own two feet?  Because I see evidence of the opposite all over the place.

That's not necessarily true. I completely agree that from suffering can come growth but that also sometimes it does take a fresh perspective or a little bit of support to overcome difficult times in our lives. Many of us are here because we sought answers and found support from others in similar situations. How would it be if places like this didn't exist and you were told, that's your own issue to deal with, go do it yourself. It's not about having the support but the level of support. Learning that it's ok to ask for help but the level of help that is available and understanding between what is healthy and what isn't.

As for evidence of my ex standing on her own two feet, there have been glimpses of that. For example, last year, any bill that came in was a crisis where she would fall apart and allow herself to fall deeper into a hole. At that point, I stepped in and took care of things so crisis averted. Once the stepping in stopped, I would get phone calls in the night to tell me all about the latest crisis in the hope I would offer to step in. The support comes from validating the feelings, not sorting out the problem. A few months ago the crisis was that both her internet bill and car insurance were due at the same time and she only had the money for one, she was upset and panicking. Rather than telling her what she should do, we talked through the importance of both and the suggestion I left her with was to pay off what she felt was going to be more important. She had already talked that through so finished the call knowing what she was going to do. So when you look at a situation like that, there are improvements in that sense just by being there to listen without being drawn in. There is always the hope that the next time that situation arises, she might have a little more understanding and have learned something. Whether she does or doesn't is down to her.

Ripped Heart, it sounds like the person you want to be is a "rescuer" - even though it costs you your peace of mind. (You wouldn't be posting if it didn't).  And it makes you a target for people who don't give a damn about what you want and need, but will take you for all you're worth.

I'm always going to be a care giver, to turn my back on that is not being true to myself. All I can do is continue to make the changes I need to within myself and continue to be who I am but recognising where the line is drawn between being supportive and rescuing. It may well mean that I continue to be a potential target but the other side to that is that I'm developing the ability to recognise when something is not right and not to ignore the red flags associated with it. I now have firm boundaries in place where I can continue to be me without overstepping the boundary or allowing mine to be abused. I accept there may be times when they are tested or pushed but in recognising when they are, allows me to maintain them. I still have a lot to understand about myself and a lot to work through and for me it's about making those changes without changing the core of who I am as a person.

[Grey Kitty]

Ripped, I'm confused about what you are doing. Here's the situation as you describe it:

BPDexgf got a loan from an internet loan shark, and you A) found out about it, and B) know enough about her financial history to know she will not be able to replay it... .in other words, she's heading into a bigger financial trainwreck than she was in before it.

BPDexgf told you she bought you a present (expensive beyond what she can afford, I believe).

You fully expect BPDexgf to ask you for help when the upcoming financial trainwreck hits her and her kids.

What are you going to do?

Will you accept the gift if she actually hands it to you?

Will you offer her money to bail her out when things fall apart?

[jhkbuzz]

And my question is, how do you benefit from this relationship?  What is the payoff for you? (The benefit to her is clear).

[Ripped Heart]

Ripped, I'm confused about what you are doing. Here's the situation as you describe it:

BPDexgf got a loan from an internet loan shark, and you A) found out about it, and B) know enough about her financial history to know she will not be able to replay it... .in other words, she's heading into a bigger financial trainwreck than she was in before it.

BPDexgf told you she bought you a present (expensive beyond what she can afford, I believe).

You fully expect BPDexgf to ask you for help when the upcoming financial trainwreck hits her and her kids.

What are you going to do?

Will you accept the gift if she actually hands it to you?

Will you offer her money to bail her out when things fall apart?

I'm not going to do anything. Her financial responsibilities are just that, her financial responsibilities.

For me now it's about knowing a recycle attempt is possibly on the way and understanding her motivations behind it. By knowing that it is based around her financial need keeps me focused and balanced when it does come so that I don't get drawn back in and I don't find myself stepping in to bail her out.

It's about knowing that a recycle attempt from her will be about need rather than the fact she wants to try and make things work. By understanding that, it means I can keep a certain distance and the best approach for the situation. In the past, during the relationship, it's been an automatic response to step in and bail her out. By knowing her motivations, it allows me to understand to bigger picture and not get drawn in.

As for accepting the gift, to be honest, I would have preferred she use that money to pay off bills, debts or spend it on her kids. The fact that during the relationship the only time she ever bought anything for me was when something big was on the way. I used to miss the pattern that followed so by seeing it now and tracking it through I'm able to keep focused and understand. It's about preparing for the inevitable and protecting myself, about being able to feel bad for her but also knowing this is a situation she has put herself in.

What you have to understand here is that she doesn't know that I know any of this so when the approach comes, the story won't be that she did something foolish and is now in a bind. It will be lies and manipulation along the lines of she was either forced to do something or someone was threatening her or whatever, someone else will be the villain and she is vulnerable and frightened. For me understanding the big picture it won't activate the part in me that feels compelled to rescue since I'm able to predict the pattern based on her actions. So in that sense it keeps me grounded so that I can say no and not bail her out.

jhk - The benefit for me is understanding the patterns going on so that I can protect myself and not give in to stepping in to rescue. I still have a lot of work on myself around that and given there are buttons I know she can press. The payoff for me is that her actions are entirely predictable so knowing which buttons she presses and how I react allows me to see where I still have gaps that need to be worked through. Because if I don't have clarity and understanding of that, I do leave myself vulnerable to anyone else who is able to press those buttons.

[BorisAcusio]

The benefit for me is understanding the patterns going on so that I can protect myself and not give in to stepping in to rescue. I still have a lot of work on myself around that and given there are buttons I know she can press. The payoff for me is that her actions are entirely predictable so knowing which buttons she presses and how I react allows me to see where I still have gaps that need to be worked through. Because if I don't have clarity and understanding of that, I do leave myself vulnerable to anyone else who is able to press those buttons.

Is there a chance that you unconciously rationalize your involvement in the repetition compulsion, where engaging in the familiar dynamics is itself the payoff?


The inherent struggle for an autonomy that terrifies the borderline (subconsciously they often become their own worst enemies--their own abusers once removed from their actual past abusers --therefore they do not trust their own autonomy and personal power any more than that of their abusers) sees many a borderline attempt to take personal responsibility only to turn on a dime, dump it and ask someone else to take it, hold it and deal with it. This is part of seeking to be rescued not only from the past but also from themselves. Add to this that most borderlines (in the early stages of recovery) do not know who they are. This is another scary part of why they are so willing to abdicate to you or anyone else that will take control. But, the second you take control the borderline will balk at that and attempt to win control back. If they get it back they'll hate that too and throw it back at you.

If one continues to be manipulated into providing rescue for a borderline not only will that person be confused, hurt and no doubt angry (sooner or later) but the borderline once again gets to side step what is most needed in order to attain some recovery... .the accepting of personal responsibility.

Easy for me to say right now... .not easy for a borderline to read but if you have a borderline in your life the best thing you can do (in the long run) for both yourself and your borderline is NOT engage in any rescuing activity/behavior. This too, of course will be met with rage. You will get rage no matter what you do until the borderline learns to feel what hurts so badly.

If you are borderline and you don't know how to be alone, or how to feel your own feelings or meet your own needs you are likely engaging somewhere in your life in demanding rescue from others. Clearly, you need to know that this behavior will almost always result in the alienation of that person from you. (sooner or later). Seeking to be rescued is not the answer. You do not need rescue anymore. If you are borderline, what you need is to find yourself and to take care of yourself by yourself.

Borderlines need learn how to function on their own, enabling them will hinder growth for both parties involved.

[Ripped Heart]

That could be partly true too Boris 

With T I've been recognising a lot of familiar dynamics due to FOO and previous BPD relationships so the stepping in and rescuing has been a pattern pretty much most of my life. In order for me to break patterns, I have to be able to understand them and at what point my own involvement goes from being that of healthy caring to unhealthy rescuing. That's part of the reason there is still an attachment there in one sense because I although I'm now at a point where I can recognise the healthy and unhealthy dynamic, I still need to establish where the button gets pressed that makes the switch.

On top of this I'm also high functioning Aspergers which is also why I have chosen to take this route. For example, with exN/BPDw, she was physically, verbally, emotionally and mentally abusive but was convincing enough that I didn't recognise the abuse. After processing through it with my T at the time, I was able to read the signals and therefore identify the abuse. So in r/s with exBPDgf, there was the occasional nasty comment (which she was apologetic for) but there was no physical abuse and to a degree very little in the way of mental abuse or verbal abuse. There were times when it was close but it seemed to hurt her more than it hurt me.

What I didn't pick up on and is something my T identified is that there was still abuse within the relationship in the form of financial abuse. Because I can only read the signals that I understand, it wasn't something I picked up on in the same way I didn't pick up on the abuse in my marriage. Some of that stems from my childhood where I worked to provide for my mother and my sister and what was left over was mine. So in that sense, sorting out my ex's finances when we were together seemed perfectly logical and normal to me.

I've now established that this isn't the case and I'm able to recognise that but what I haven't been able to understand in myself is at what point I'm triggered into being compelled to step in and rescue. What's happening right now from my exBPDgf is a reoccurring pattern and although she hasn't asked for financial rescue, I'm trying to establish if the "gift" is the trigger point by following that pattern to establish if it follows the same chain of events.

In answer to most of the questions here, it doesn't mean I'm suddenly going to step in and "rescue" and actually has more to do with my own processing so that I can establish the pattern is there and look for the break point so that I don't keep following the same cycles, not just with exBPDgf but any future friendships or relationships I may have.

For example, looking at the fact she has made contact to tell me she has a gift for me. The questions I have going on in my head is whether that is the point where I need to focus. So if I was to accept the gift would I then feel guilty when she suddenly has the inevitable financial crisis. To me right now, these aren't random acts and is part of a much larger process. It feels like the gift bought after the loan in some way is the initial set up to what is about to follow.

With Aspergers we often have an inability to see the bigger picture and more often than not, break it down into separate logical elements. So to me previously, the gift, the crisis and the need for rescue were all unrelated and seen as separate entities. Given that I'm starting to see things on a much larger scale I have to establish that this chain of events are all related in order to process that logically and find the break point to the cycle.

So on that basis, yes, it is a familiar dynamic that wasn't just between me and exBPDgf but also with my FOO and in previous relationships. Which means this is a pattern I keep repeating and in order for me to break it, I have to be able to understand it otherwise next time around whether it be exBPDgf or someone entirely different, I will miss it.

[Infared]

Ripped... .I think that Webster's dictionary just revised and they were wondering if it would be OK with you to attach your photo next to their definition of "enabler"?

[Ripped Heart]

Ripped... .I think that Webster's dictionary just revised and they were wondering if it would be OK with you to attach your photo next to their definition of "enabler"?

? I'm not certain I get this. I posted to say my exBPDgf sent a text, that also I haven't responded to it. That I'm trying to gather perspective and insight into working through my own processes.

Without:

a) Accepting any gift

b) Responding to the message I received

c) Without at any point (in fact the opposite) stating that when she asks for money I will give it to her.

Right now, I haven't enabled anything.

What I seem to be hearing is:

a) Its a pwBPD, they are all the same

b) Run away

[Grey Kitty]

What are you going to do?

Will you accept the gift if she actually hands it to you?

Will you offer her money to bail her out when things fall apart?

I'm not going to do anything. Her financial responsibilities are just that, her financial responsibilities.

... .

As for accepting the gift, to be honest, I would have preferred she use that money to pay off bills, debts or spend it on her kids. The fact that during the relationship the only time she ever bought anything for me was when something big was on the way. I used to miss the pattern that followed so by seeing it now and tracking it through I'm able to keep focused and understand.

Good answer on the inevitable financial crisis coming.  

What you said about the gift is how you feel. It is not an action. I could imagine several actions for you when she gives it to you:

• Accept it and say "Thank you." (Or other expressions of gratitude and appreciation)



• Accept it and say something (give her a lecture?) about how financially irresponsible it is.



• Refuse it and say something (give her a lecture?) about how financially irresponsible it is, suggesting that she return it, get the money back and use it another way



• Refuse it as gracefully as you can, saying that you aren't in a romantic relationship with her and cannot accept expensive gifts from her now.

You've stated clearly that she's being financially irresponsible.

You've stated clearly that you expect her to use this as a "hook" to get help from you later.

You've stated clearly that her finances are her problem, not yours.

Based on those three things, which option (or some other one I didn't propose) matches your values best?

[Infared]

Ripped... .I think that Webster's dictionary just revised and they were wondering if it would be OK with you to attach your photo next to their definition of "enabler"?

? I'm not certain I get this. I posted to say my exBPDgf sent a text, that also I haven't responded to it. That I'm trying to gather perspective and insight into working through my own processes.

Without:

a) Accepting any gift

b) Responding to the message I received

c) Without at any point (in fact the opposite) stating that when she asks for money I will give it to her.

Right now, I haven't enabled anything.

What I seem to be hearing is:

a) Its a pwBPD, they are all the same

b) Run away

Ripped. I am an alcoholic, in recovery for 12 years.  I go to meetings. I have a sponsor, etc.

When I keep drinking I would surround myself with people who drank more than me and I could point out that they were worse than me, that I really wasn't that bad.  I was in TOTAL denial... .and until I came to terms with what "I" was doing, and admitted that I had a problem and that it was alcoholism, I had no shot at getting help or getting better. I needed some rigorous self-honesty to address the problem and to surround myself with all the help and people that were available to support the changes that I needed to make to have a better life.

[BorisAcusio]

With Aspergers we often have an inability to see the bigger picture and more often than not, break it down into separate logical elements. So to me previously, the gift, the crisis and the need for rescue were all unrelated and seen as separate entities. Given that I'm starting to see things on a much larger scale I have to establish that this chain of events are all related in order to process that logically and find the break point to the cycle.

I've been suspecting for a while that her ex-husband have mild aspergers, he processed every event separately without connecting it to past behaviour, never making a grand total. The problems is, with the constant new source of drama, you get caught in cycle rather than making sense of what already happened during your interaction.

I personally consider one of the greatest gifts that unless many of those who have ongoing financial dispute and children together, I had the *CHOICE* not to participate in disordered dance and walk away, the mental energy required to deal with her attempts to break through my boundaries was only good for taking focus off from my problems.