New member

[AKTO]

Hi, I'm AK, I've been reading this blog for between 6 months and a year, but never posted until now. I am currently separated from my wife, living with my immediate family. It's been two months. I really don't know where to start... .There's just so much. And I'm not great at cutting to the chase, or organizing my thoughts. I'm just in a lot of pain, and very uncertain, sad, lonely, anxious, angry. I would really like to connect, and share my story, but where do I even start from? My childhood? My teens? Beginning of my relationship with my wife? The current separation?

Basic info- I'm 26, married (separated) to a 25 yr. old woman who was never "officially" diagnosed with BPD- more on that later- with two little daughters- age 2 & 4, from a religious community (hence the earlier marriage and child-rearing than usual). I've been in therapy for a few years and have been learning a lot about myself and my marriage. I am codependent (on my wife, as well as others), and trying to recover from enmeshment with my FOO (not ideal that I am living in their basement at the moment). I also have ADD, which has complicated many aspects of my wife, not the least of which is my marriage. Full disclosure, I'm not saint, and have my share of contribution to the marriage difficulties. Significantly, I have been in recovery from sex addiction for 2 years, but not before causing damage to my marriage through my obsession with porn and sex. On top of everything I am in my last semester in law school, trying to keep my head above water and it just seems so surreal- it feels almost like a joke. I have almost no motivation, am so stressed and unfocused, and can't even think about the steps after graduation. I have a lot of support from therapy, family and recovery communities, but am still so vulnerable and out of it.

I'm basically just starting my sharing, introducing myself, saying hi, and asking for advise on how to go ahead and begin.

[drunkenfr]

Hi welcome, the good thing is that you have your family and friends to support you, in my case, there is literally no one can help, just me and my BPD wife fighting till the end of world, my BPD wife has no job, no friend, no family, no income, no nothing but me to blame one, i got a high pressure job at day and physically fighting with my wife at night, sometime, i can't go to work because we fight(verbally, mentally and physically abuse) whole night, sometime i can't go to work simply because i'm physically damaged, there is no hope so far, well, i hope you will get better knowing there is someone worse than you, all the best and cheer up   

[JRT]

AKTO

Welcome and thanks for sharing your story... .sorry to hear that you are having to endure this, I know it ain't easy. Al of on here have had similar situations and hurt as a result.

So now that we have some background, what do you want to have happen within the context of this relationship?

[AKTO]

Thanks for responding drunk and JRT. What I'd like ideally, is for "my wife to change". Obviously. I know... .that's not in my control. Seriously though, we are still going weekly to marriage counseling/therapy, while I am going to individual and group therapy for addiction, childhood and codependency issues, and she is going through group and individual DBT (despite "not having BPD", which I'll get to later), about 2/3 through the 6 month program.

I would like to stay together IF she is willing to own, recognize consistently- the impact of her behaviour and words on me, and show progress in her emotional regulation, stability in her behaviour, and general respect of me and my feelings. No insulting, belittling, raging, etc. She has acknowledged all of this before occasionally, but it never stays clear to her for long. We have two kids together, and despite being very different personality-wise, I do love her (at least- DID love her, not 100% sure anymore after all the pain and anger). So I'd like to try and make it work if it's possible.

But in the two months of our separation- despite seeing that she clearly wants to get better for her own quality of life, and recognizes her emotional dysregulation- I have NOT seen that she has become any more reasonable in regards to me and our relationship. She still sees things rigidly in b&w, still is unpredictable in her interactions and communication with me (leaving me confused- are we friendly and in open and "sharing mode", or is she detached, angry and contemptful?), and still sees ME as the major problem.

She is not sure whether she wants to put in the effort to try and make things work; if she wants to stay married to me. This is because of my addiction, my "sick" relationship with my family and how much my mother and sisters hurt her and my lack of protection of her (this is all partially true but misses significant parts of the picture), my irresponsibility when it comes to school and career (my adhd plays a big role in all this, and she has been unwilling to accept this or even try to understand it. It's all excuses and irrelevant to her), and my spiritual decline in recent years due to my feeling overwhelmed, resentful and a little traumatized in regard to religion. She is taking her time to decide, which she is entitled to do.

Meanwhile, throughout this separation I have become more and more disillusioned, and stung by her behaviour and words to me. Despite starting out the separation (which SHE wanted, and insisted on) with hope, and with mutual interest in working out our issues and healing, things turned early on and she became detached, impatient, and eventually more and more angry and contemptful of me for not doing more to help with the kids. It probably didnt help much that our therapist went away on vacation for 5 weeks the week of our separation.

I am trying to deal with my own stuff in therapy and recovery. But is so hard. I didn't realize quite how painful it is for me to be alone. It's a feeling I've experienced before I got married, and it's absolutely lonely, a feeling of emptiness. I know, these are my emotional issues and I'm aware of them. I did a lot of crying and grieving until recently, still do a little. But I'm getting more and more fed up with how things are going. She seems to have a foot out the door, and I feel like I'm just waiting for her to make her decision. I don't want to give up on a situation that may have hope, considering we have two little kids together, and she IS in DBT, and I still love her, I think, buried under a lot of anger and fear. But on the other hand, I don't want to keep getting hurt, hoping and crashing, waiting and waiting, feeling invalidated or blamed. I'm really struggling with being a part-time father, and having a lot of trouble completing my final law school semester.

I'd like to post more of my story, but will do so on another day.

[JRT]

It looks like you have some decisions that that you need to make regarding your r/s with her... .it doesn't seem that you are committed to your marriage and at the same time I sense that you are.

[Michelle27]

I totally understand that ambivalence.  I'm there right now.  My marriage is in a position of limbo right now while I have agreed to stay with some boundaries in place to protect myself from further damage, while I work on mitigating that damage and trying to heal as well as make my own changes.  He is pursuing therapy and DBT but it's slow going and I'm beyond frustrated.  It's been over 4 months since I agreed to stay for up to a year while he shows me he is serious this time (after dozens of failed/manipulated/sabotaged attempts in years past) and in any given day I waffle back and forth in whether or I can do this or not.  In the meantime, he is "love-bombing" me and it has the feeling for me of being so faked that it's actually pushing me away, not winning me over.  If he can "be there for me" now with almost an overnight switch when he realized I was 99% out the door, he could have made an effort during the previous 9 years... .

All you can do, is work on you.  Don't waste years of your life hoping for her to make the changes, it will just eat up your energy and time which are much better spent taking care of you. 

[Loosestrife]

I totally understand that ambivalence.  I'm there right now.  My marriage is in a position of limbo right now while I have agreed to stay with some boundaries in place to protect myself from further damage, while I work on mitigating that damage and trying to heal as well as make my own changes.  He is pursuing therapy and DBT but it's slow going and I'm beyond frustrated.  It's been over 4 months since I agreed to stay for up to a year while he shows me he is serious this time (after dozens of failed/manipulated/sabotaged attempts in years past) and in any given day I waffle back and forth in whether or I can do this or not.  In the meantime, he is "love-bombing" me and it has the feeling for me of being so faked that it's actually pushing me away, not winning me over.  If he can "be there for me" now with almost an overnight switch when he realized I was 99% out the door, he could have made an effort during the previous 9 years... .

All you can do, is work on you.  Don't waste years of your life hoping for her to make the changes, it will just eat up your energy and time which are much better spent taking care of you. 

I can relate to this too, Michelle is right - change for a BPD takes a long time and it can relapse so many times it makes you question time itself. Work on you 

[Lucky Jim]

Hey AK,

Welcome!  I think that, almost by definition, anyone in a r/s with a pwBPD has to have codependent/caretaker tendencies, because otherwise you wouldn't be in a BPD r/s in the first place.  So you are in good company on this board!  I concur that the way out of the BPD tangle is to shift the focus back to yourself.  What things can you do, within your power, to make healthy changes?  Waiting for a pwBPD is to change is a thankless vigil, in my view, and after a 16-year marriage to a pwBPD, I should know.

LuckyJim

[AKTO]

Thank you all for your responses. I appreciate having the support. I have been seeing a therapist with my wife (aside from my own individual therapist) for about 5 months now (our 6th couples' therapist in 5 years together, but the 1st since she's started her dbt,4 months ago), and will be meeting with him individually this thursday, and again with my wife later that same day. I want to get a sense from him where he thinks things are going and his sense of potential for progress. I do not want to be stuck for long. I don't yet have a time-limit on how long I am willing to continue waiting, or going for counseling. Maybe I should have one. It also depens on whether I feel I am being continually mistreated in this separation, and if progress is being made, which until now hasnt been the case.

We are also meeting next week with a religious mentor whom I trust and is quite knowledgeable. I need a sense of a few things:

1. Where is my wife holding in HER decision-making? If she is almost certain that she doesn't want to stay married I don't want to continue with the emotional turmoil.

2, How likely is it that we can improve and make progress together?

3. How am I feeling that i am being treated, and do I want to continue trying  EVEN IF my wife IS willing to try? Is my wife making enough progress in her recovery to give me hope of continued improvement?

4. For my own conscience, to look myself in the mirror and my kids in the eye, I don't want to throw in the towel before being confident I've done ENOUGH, that I've given things a good enough try. We are with a therapist we both trust enough, which has not always been the case. My wife is in the middle of DBT, which has not been the case before. We gave been separated and living apart for two months, which has not been the case before. It's a new situation, unlike our previous attempts, so I don't want to assume it's hopeless just like all our other attempts.

However, like I said, there must be limits and I'm not quite sure where they are. And I'm just getting healthier myself, so I'm not 100% sure of myself.

Anyway, thanks for being here. I intend to write about my history and our marriage in another post soon, and would love to read comments and feedback.

AK

[an0ught]

Hi AKTO,

Thank you all for your responses. I appreciate having the support. I have been seeing a therapist with my wife (aside from my own individual therapist) for about 5 months now (our 6th couples' therapist in 5 years together, but the 1st since she's started her dbt,4 months ago), and will be meeting with him individually this thursday, and again with my wife later that same day. I want to get a sense from him where he thinks things are going and his sense of potential for progress. I do not want to be stuck for long. I don't yet have a time-limit on how long I am willing to continue waiting, or going for counseling. Maybe I should have one. It also depens on whether I feel I am being continually mistreated in this separation, and if progress is being made, which until now hasnt been the case.

We are also meeting next week with a religious mentor whom I trust and is quite knowledgeable. I need a sense of a few things:

1. Where is my wife holding in HER decision-making? If she is almost certain that she doesn't want to stay married I don't want to continue with the emotional turmoil.

The problem with BPD is that decision making is not happening - at least not in the traditional sense. Often what looks like a decision is an expression of a momentary emotion.

2, How likely is it that we can improve and make progress together?

The relationship has been longer, both are in therapy and there are kids. There is a chance but no certainty.

3. How am I feeling that i am being treated, and do I want to continue trying  EVEN IF my wife IS willing to try? Is my wife making enough progress in her recovery to give me hope of continued improvement?

You may have issues. But then a lot of people have. Living with a pwBPD without having learned to properly set boundaries can be extremely stressful and people tend to compensate in all sorts of unhealthy ways. As you have experienced short term "improvements" of a pwBPD in T can feel quite negative for the partner. That is very, very common. That does not mean that there can't be significant medium and long term improvements. Any short term improvements depend on you acquiring skills by studying the LESSONS and getting involved on the Staying Board.

4. For my own conscience, to look myself in the mirror and my kids in the eye, I don't want to throw in the towel before being confident I've done ENOUGH, that I've given things a good enough try. We are with a therapist we both trust enough, which has not always been the case. My wife is in the middle of DBT, which has not been the case before. We gave been separated and living apart for two months, which has not been the case before. It's a new situation, unlike our previous attempts, so I don't want to assume it's hopeless just like all our other attempts.

However, like I said, there must be limits and I'm not quite sure where they are. And I'm just getting healthier myself, so I'm not 100% sure of myself.

Anyway, thanks for being here. I intend to write about my history and our marriage in another post soon, and would love to read comments and feedback.

It is worth reflecting where you want to go. As you are not sure that seems to depend on what will happen. A lot of what will happen depends on your healing, your learning and your actions. The Staying Board is the best place for that. The Undecided Board is the best place to reflect on whether you want to continue your path or not. That is healthy some of the time but exhausting if done continuously.

Welcome to our boards,

a0

[Henry II]

Hi AL, I am so sorry u r having such a rough time and must be missing you girls and the family togetherness that is supposed to be there.

First, I would like to address your needs. I am not a believer in ADD. I do believe that that is a label Dr's put on kids that are overactive to the point of not being able to stay focused. The reason for lack of attention I beleive and many other people in the health field is an over cisumtion of sugar.  If you were raised typical you had lots of sugar from the time you were born.

  Your body doesn't know what to do with the excess. Sugar turns to fat and your body stops making insulin.Not good. Some people do OK and others are more active.

  As a former scout leader, believe me when I tell you we prohibited the consumption of soda and candy after supper to give the scdouts a chance to burn it off and we could all sleep.

You have probably carried you sugar habits into adulthood.

Do youself a favor , if you thimk you are eating too much sugar , start eating a healthier diet. Even the sugar in fruit can be too much for some people.

Alcohol too is loaded with sugar.

As for the sexual addiction is concerned , I can relate to that as I feel the same way. I am addicted to having my "O" almost every day/nite. When I was yonger it was several times per day. Now I use the web for help achiving that as my W will not touch me for several years now.

The reason I think I need the "O" so much is to release the chemicils in the brain to make me feel good. serotonin, etc. So, I am lacking confidence in myself and that may come from childhood.

  Look inside yourself and try to see what may be the driving force for you.

  You don't want to let it get away from you. I got in trouble around your age with the law by having an "indecent exposure" charge brought against me. Was not a fun time and probably screwed upmy 1st M.

   Take care of yourself and get some T, as that helps a lot.

  Think about the sugar and shake the ADD lable.

[AKTO]

Thanks an0ught and Henry.

an0ught, you write that

You may have issues. But then a lot of people have. Living with a pwBPD without having learned to properly set boundaries can be extremely stressful and people tend to compensate in all sorts of unhealthy ways. As you have experienced short term "improvements" of a pwBPD in T can feel quite negative for the partner. That is very, very common. That does not mean that there can't be significant medium and long term improvements. Any short term improvements depend on you acquiring skills by studying the LESSONS and getting involved on the Staying Board.

What do you mean by her short term improvements feeling negative for me? Just clarifying.

And as far as not staying undecided, I know you're right. But in the mean time there is so much that is up in the air, and I cannot be committed to staying or trying to make things work if I feel hurt, blamed and belittled with every interaction. I have told her already that my decision is already made to leave unless at a minimum she can recognize and let go of her disdain and contempt. I'm not asking her for more in order to be willing to work on things. Of course if she is willing to try that, I have a new set of decisions to make. As of yet she has refused to agree to that, so it's moot. My decision was to wait out the next 6-8 weeks until she finishes her dbt program before making any firm decisions. She has yet to start on the "Interpersonal Relationships" module.

Henry, as far as the ADD and sugar thing, I'm going to have to strongly disagree, but if it works for you and others, I'm happy for you. I agree that sugar is not good for you, and can make one hyper and unfocused. I also agree that we don't seem to know yet exactly What ADHD is and its causes. What is CLEAR is that it's a real neurobiological condition, with visible differences from the general population in such things as brain structure and activity. It is the MOST heritable mental condition after or along with schizophrenia, research has NOT supported dietary causes, although change in diet may improve some symptoms for some people. I actually DID go through a phase of no sugar, for a few months, approximately 2-3 years ago.I did it not for ADD but to see if it would improve my sinus issues. While I'm sure it was healthier for me, it didn't change my ADD symptoms much. And there's a LOT more to ADD than just hyperactivity and sitting and focusing.

In any event, thanks for your support. I've been in recovery from sex addiction for two years, with ups, downs, slips and successes on the way. Its crucial for me, because otherwise it will take over my life. I cannot masturbate   at this point in my life, because then the need controls me, and not the other way around. But my life is more manageable when not a slave to getting my sex fix. I would strongly encourage you to check out a 12 step program for sex addiction if it's causing you distress.

There have been some updates in my situation but I will write down in a new post.

Thanks 

[an0ught]

Hi AKTO,

Thanks an0ught and Henry.

an0ught, you write that

You may have issues. But then a lot of people have. Living with a pwBPD without having learned to properly set boundaries can be extremely stressful and people tend to compensate in all sorts of unhealthy ways. As you have experienced short term "improvements" of a pwBPD in T can feel quite negative for the partner. That is very, very common. That does not mean that there can't be significant medium and long term improvements. Any short term improvements depend on you acquiring skills by studying the LESSONS and getting involved on the Staying Board.

What do you mean by her short term improvements feeling negative for me? Just clarifying.

There is some psycho-education happening which brings increased awareness and self-awareness. That however is not yet balanced by true understanding and ability for basic self management/regulation. As a result partners often experience temporary turmoil as the pwBPD uses psychobabel or skills in totally inappropriate ways e.g. "boundaries" in controlling manner. It is like teens growing and not knowing how to control the longer limbs.

And as far as not staying undecided, I know you're right. But in the mean time there is so much that is up in the air, and I cannot be committed to staying or trying to make things work if I feel hurt, blamed and belittled with every interaction. I have told her already that my decision is already made to leave unless at a minimum she can recognize and let go of her disdain and contempt. I'm not asking her for more in order to be willing to work on things. Of course if she is willing to try that, I have a new set of decisions to make. As of yet she has refused to agree to that, so it's moot. My decision was to wait out the next 6-8 weeks until she finishes her dbt program before making any firm decisions. She has yet to start on the "Interpersonal Relationships" module.

I understand that you won't commit. The point here is that:

- staying board is more focused on practical support advice

- has more traffic

- is skill learning focused

Keep in mind that you are de-facto at the moment staying and will benefit from developing skills. Keep also in mind that these skills are useful for self-care and for all sort of relationships beyond a romantic one. It sometimes happens that the willingness to walk away from the relationship is even required to put the first boundaries in place that enable staying.

It is totally ok to post on Staying and Undecided (duplicate posts however are not ok - we want discussions focused in one place). It is also ok to post on Leaving and Undecided. We somewhat discourage posting on Staying and Leaving as people easily get triggered.

I've just seen too many people stalling for a longer time in Undecided and not making relatively simple changes in their relationship reducing their pain. So once in a while I get up on a soapbox  .