You're the victim?

[GrowThroughIt]

Having one of those nights again!

ARGH! I HATE it when your ex partner acts like/feels like the victim when they were the ones who caused so much trouble. They are the ones who lied, manipulated, cheated, raged and purposefully made you feel like crap (just because they really do!)

I know pwN/BPD can not look at themselves as anything other than victims because if they did, they would break down. And I know they do not like the idea of breaking down as it means they are not in control of their emotions (but are they ever?). It would also mean their whole life would have to be questioned. I mean, if they were wrong in this relationship, then what else must have they been wrong about in their life? And it's always easier to blame someone else right?

I feel like telling my ex exactly where she went wrong, and exactly what is wrong with her. In all honesty, I want to bring her crashing back down to Earth. I want her to know, that I know! I know all about her and her life! There are times where I feel like telling her as a way of helping her, and others (like now) where I can essentially just rage and let her know what I think of her! But I know, for whatever reason, it'll be a futile attempt. She is so narcissistic that she won't see past the fact that I contacted her!

There are so many things that p****ed me off about the relationship! I just need to create a thread to vent!

[once removed]

hi growthroughit,

your feelings of anger are understandable. frankly, it probably would make you feel better in the short term to tell this person all of the things you want to, and lay into them, so i think you can think of it as kind of a fantasy. fantasies preoccupy our minds and compel us to want to experience them. its good that you recognize the futility of acting. there would also be the psychological consequences that person might experience.

i think that venting that anger is healthy, at least when its done in a healthy way. you can obviously use this forum to do so, with others that are familiar with your anger. a major turning point in my own healing came in the form of a sort of letter to myself. you might try that. you might just try saying all the angry things you want to say in writing. the therapeutic value of venting in writing cannot be overstated.

[Sunfl0wer]

Yup, I happened to be thinking of the times he accused me of " violence" that he made up.  He was projecting a story of when his exwife attacked him, but now he actually thought it was ME.  Then there was other stuff... .  oh well.  Always the victim.  He is scared -> I must be scarey = N/BPD logic.

[jhkbuzz]

If you don't know anything about the karpman drama triangle, you might want to take a look at this:  https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=108384.0.)

"The Karpman  Triangle, described by Stephen Karpman and elaborated by many others, is a very useful tool for understanding "stuck" relationship dynamics. The idea is that we often find ourselves playing out scripts. These roles feel safe, as they are familiar; we slip into as comfortable as we sink into the us-shaped indent in our own beds. But they are very limiting. They keep us trapped.

The triangle in its simple form consists of three roles: Persecutor, Victim, and Rescuer. We may start in one position, but as another (or others) shift around the triangle, so do we.

The Persecutor insists, "It's all your fault." The Persecutor is controlling, blaming, critical, oppressive, angry, authoritative, rigid, and superior.

The Victim is of course persecuted. The Victim's stance is "Poor me!" The Victim feels victimized, oppressed, helpless, hopeless, powerless, ashamed, and seems unable to make decisions, solve problems, take pleasure in life, or achieve insight. The Victim, if not being persecuted, will seek out a Persecutor and also a Rescuer who will "save" the day but also perpetuate the Victim's negative feelings.

The Rescuer's line is "Let me help you." A classic enabler, the Rescuer feels guilty if he/she doesn't rescue. Yet his/her rescuing has negative effects: It keeps the Victim dependent and gives the Victim permission to fail. It also keeps the Rescuer stuck in focusing energy on someone else's problems, not solving his/her own."

After my r/s ended, my T, in passing, mentioned that my ex probably felt like the victim in our r/s - and I almost went through the roof.  VICTIM?  She chronically lied, repeatedly cheated, left ME and SHE feels like the victim?

Learning about the Karpman drama triangle helped me make sense of it all.

[Infared]

Yes... .I lived this.

... and the second my partner took up with someone else while she was living with me, yes... .I was a victim... and I continued to be one until I slowly realized what the truth was. This person had ended our relationship behind my back, did not have the respect or courtesy to tell me and was still coming home and sleeping with me.  ... .be them disordered or not, for me, that is an untenable life situation.

It ended when I went absolute NC... .at least from that point forward I was no longer the direct victim of, at the very least, a liar and a cheater. This person, once discovered , also turned into an outright abuser, but only if I stayed in contact with them. If I did not... .Triangle broken.

My heartbreak and disappointment was immeasurable, but I needed to take care of me.

... .then I had to go fix the mess that I was.  Tough stuff.

[apollotech]

If you don't know anything about the karpman drama triangle, you might want to take a look at this:  https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=108384.0.)

"The Karpman  Triangle, described by Stephen Karpman and elaborated by many others, is a very useful tool for understanding "stuck" relationship dynamics. The idea is that we often find ourselves playing out scripts. These roles feel safe, as they are familiar; we slip into as comfortable as we sink into the us-shaped indent in our own beds. But they are very limiting. They keep us trapped.

The triangle in its simple form consists of three roles: Persecutor, Victim, and Rescuer. We may start in one position, but as another (or others) shift around the triangle, so do we.

The Persecutor insists, "It's all your fault." The Persecutor is controlling, blaming, critical, oppressive, angry, authoritative, rigid, and superior.

The Victim is of course persecuted. The Victim's stance is "Poor me!" The Victim feels victimized, oppressed, helpless, hopeless, powerless, ashamed, and seems unable to make decisions, solve problems, take pleasure in life, or achieve insight. The Victim, if not being persecuted, will seek out a Persecutor and also a Rescuer who will "save" the day but also perpetuate the Victim's negative feelings.

The Rescuer's line is "Let me help you." A classic enabler, the Rescuer feels guilty if he/she doesn't rescue. Yet his/her rescuing has negative effects: It keeps the Victim dependent and gives the Victim permission to fail. It also keeps the Rescuer stuck in focusing energy on someone else's problems, not solving his/her own."

After my r/s ended, my T, in passing, mentioned that my ex probably felt like the victim in our r/s - and I almost went through the roof.  VICTIM?  She chronically lied, repeatedly cheated, left ME and SHE feels like the victim?

Learning about the Karpman drama triangle helped me make sense of it all.

The Persecutor and/or Rescuer don't have to be actual people either. My BPDexgf, professional victim, displays this triangle many times on FB, as well as in real life. The person causing her trouble is, of course, the Persecutor; God takes up the role as Rescuer, and she is the Victim. If it is a terrible event that cannot easily be attributed to a person, then God becomes the Persecutor. As mentioned above, as it applies to my BPDexgf's life, God is an enabler; she can patiently wait for God to fix her troubles. She never has to accept that she causes her troubles. It's all very tidy.

[Blimblam]

If you don't know anything about the karpman drama triangle, you might want to take a look at this:  https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=108384.0.)

"The Karpman  Triangle, described by Stephen Karpman and elaborated by many others, is a very useful tool for understanding "stuck" relationship dynamics. The idea is that we often find ourselves playing out scripts. These roles feel safe, as they are familiar; we slip into as comfortable as we sink into the us-shaped indent in our own beds. But they are very limiting. They keep us trapped.

The triangle in its simple form consists of three roles: Persecutor, Victim, and Rescuer. We may start in one position, but as another (or others) shift around the triangle, so do we.

The Persecutor insists, "It's all your fault." The Persecutor is controlling, blaming, critical, oppressive, angry, authoritative, rigid, and superior.

The Victim is of course persecuted. The Victim's stance is "Poor me!" The Victim feels victimized, oppressed, helpless, hopeless, powerless, ashamed, and seems unable to make decisions, solve problems, take pleasure in life, or achieve insight. The Victim, if not being persecuted, will seek out a Persecutor and also a Rescuer who will "save" the day but also perpetuate the Victim's negative feelings.

The Rescuer's line is "Let me help you." A classic enabler, the Rescuer feels guilty if he/she doesn't rescue. Yet his/her rescuing has negative effects: It keeps the Victim dependent and gives the Victim permission to fail. It also keeps the Rescuer stuck in focusing energy on someone else's problems, not solving his/her own."

After my r/s ended, my T, in passing, mentioned that my ex probably felt like the victim in our r/s - and I almost went through the roof.  VICTIM?  She chronically lied, repeatedly cheated, left ME and SHE feels like the victim?

Learning about the Karpman drama triangle helped me make sense of it all.

The Persecutor and/or Rescuer don't have to be actual people either. My BPDexgf, professional victim, displays this triangle many times on FB, as well as in real life. The person causing her trouble is, of course, the Persecutor; God takes up the role as Rescuer, and she is the Victim. If it is a terrible event that cannot easily be attributed to a person, then God becomes the Persecutor. As mentioned above, as it applies to my BPDexgf's life, God is an enabler; she can patiently wait for God to fix her troubles. She never has to accept that she causes her troubles. It's all very tidy.

I'm sorry but this had me slapping my knees laughing!  Omg! That's some comedic gold right there Apollo I'm very impressed  |iiib

[apollotech]

"I'm sorry but this had me slapping my knees laughing!  Omg! That's some comedic gold right there Apollo I'm very impressed  |iiib"

Oh yeah Blim, the first time she broke up with me she posted a picture on FB of an open door and said that God had opened the door for her and allowed her to escape my life. Lucky me, God changed His mind a week later and allowed her to call me, recycle #1.

I have seen her run this triangle several times. Anyone that's causing her difficulties God is going to boot, and by so doing, rescue her. It's a complete assization of Christian doctrine.

[GrowThroughIt]

Great replies!

The Drama Triangle is heavy reading! I really need to comb through all of that when I get the chance!

Apollo and Infra, I can completely relate! Ending a relationship behind someones back (That makes me soo angry!) Who do they think they are? They want you to act like they are God's gift but they lack even self respect! And like you said they carry on as victims! Argh!

The whole finding God avenue, I find slightly laughable. I am a firm believer in God, but I am also a firm believer in taking postive and direct action. For example, I could pray all day and night to be financially secure, but I believe that prayer should be followed by some kind of affirmative action. It's the same with your mental health, pray as much as you can, but for the LOVE OF GOD, go take some action. Go to therapy! Oh no wait! You can't, can you? Because if you did, you would have to acknowledge that something is seriously wrong with you!

[Infared]

Great replies!

The Drama Triangle is heavy reading! I really need to comb through all of that when I get the chance!

Apollo and Infra, I can completely relate! Ending a relationship behind someones back (That makes me soo angry!) Who do they think they are? They want you to act like they are God's gift but they lack even self respect! And like you said they carry on as victims! Argh!

The whole finding God avenue, I find slightly laughable. I am a firm believer in God, but I am also a firm believer in taking postive and direct action. For example, I could pray all day and night to be financially secure, but I believe that prayer should be followed by some kind of affirmative action. It's the same with your mental health, pray as much as you can, but for the LOVE OF GOD, go take some action. Go to therapy! Oh no wait! You can't, can you? Because if you did, you would have to acknowledge that something is seriously wrong with you!

Yes... yes... .and mine was a "professional victim" as well... .to me, to him, to her Mom, her Dad, her therapist... on... and on... and on.

She told me that the relationship she was having behind my back "happened to her". WOW she was even a victim while she was deceiving me!... .I bet it was somehow all my fault, too... .

[Loosestrife]

Is she a waif?

[Infared]

Is she a waif?

In my situation I believe she was a waif-type... .although most BPD's do no fit an exact model... .there are variations as they are all individual human beings.

[raisins3142]

I know pwN/BPD can not look at themselves as anything other than victims because if they did, they would break down. And I know they do not like the idea of breaking down as it means they are not in control of their emotions (but are they ever?). It would also mean their whole life would have to be questioned. I mean, if they were wrong in this relationship, then what else must have they been wrong about in their life? And it's always easier to blame someone else right?

\

Good point, was thinking the same thing when I first started to read your post.

Imagine if you'd had a really hard life as far as relating to others, etc (BPD style stuff).  It would be tempting to consider yourself a victim of the fates or others than to realize that the constant through all this is yourself being present and acting in the way you often do.

That would be a horrible realization: my life has been very bad in large part due to my own behavior.  I suppose it would be natural to avoid thinking of that.


My ex would get very defensive, immediately.

You could see on her face the look of "I'm not going to mentally go there and how dare you try to make me!"

[Trog]

Looking for compassion, authenticity, integrity where you know there is none? You know there is none. I know there is none. This is a lesson we all have to learn. Here's where you and your ex will further divurge, you WILL get thru this and become a better person and have a better relationship in your next relationship because of it, if you do any introspection at all, it is IMPOSSIBLE, for you to do this again with your eyes opened like this (be vigilant), and your ex? Will continue to mow people down and get into bad relationship after the next, blaming everyone around for everything totally unable to separate their ego/perceptions from reality. Its not even worth you time to defend, its a worthless dead topic.

My ex is now apparently very depressed, she needs to be, I don't wish her pain but she needs emotional pain to get somewhere along the way to maturity, her ego is broken atm, it was enormous and she's having to face the facts she has serious mental problems without being able to blame me for them. There was always someone or something to blame, I wish for her that this emotional breakdown, depressive episode actually does shatter her crazy sense of self and allows something better to bloom, I wouldn't trade place for all the money in the world.

[jhkbuzz]

That would be a horrible realization: my life has been very bad in large part due to my own behavior.  I suppose it would be natural to avoid thinking of that.

Yes, I think it would be hard for ANY of us to admit to that; it would be tempting to avoid responsibility.

But even worse than that ^?  Having to admit that you are mentally ill.  Not very many people could do it.