How can we observe BPD drama without participating in it

[Cole]

 Divorce is the parachute.  

Nope!  Wrong analogy... .IMO.  Boundaries are the ejection handle that you pull... .when it's too hot in the cockpit.

OK... .I know someone will come along and say that divorce is the ultimate boundary... .and I see that point... .but... .before going to the big D... .I would encourage anyone and everyone to focus really hard on CONSISTENTLY using boundaries.  

In many cases you don't even have to explain.  They start being verbally abusive... you walk away.  With consistent application... they will get it.  Remember... .you don't care if they like it... .a boundary is about you.  

Just like the parachute... it keeps you alive to fly another mission.  

Cole,

I'm not saying I'm great at boundaries... .but I can realize when I did it right.  Yesterday I walked away... .things were ok after 45 minutes or so.  Last night was top notch.  So was this morning.

I don't have to fully understand why ... .I just need to understand that this works

So... .if whatever you are doing is not working... .try something different.  

Warning:  :)on't gauge their reaction to see if boundary is working.  Gauge your reaction.  :)o you feel better that you skpped a blistering attack?  

Hang in there man... .I know this is tough business... .especially when there is such "duality"... .I would use the word contradictory.  Just know that it is very likely the feel it to be true... .in the moment they are saying it

FF

FF,

I appreciate what you are saying. I have just reached the end of the rope. And it is not even the disregulation and verbal abuse that is the issue; it is not knowing what the heck tomorrow will bring.  

She quit her job this week because of the stress, to spend more time with the kids, and work on being a better mom. I make more than enough for my family to live comfortably and supported her decision. Good for all, especially our autistic spectrum son who is having a lot of trouble lately. She has been cooking, cleaning, picking the kids up from school so they do not have the long bus ride, and in general loving being a stay at home mom.

She has been more affectionate lately than she has in years. Lots of touching, kissing, and flirting.

She has been talking about the future, things to do this summer, and plans for new furniture and decorating.

Today, she is out of state in her home town interviewing for a job because she wants to get a divorce and move back.

If you just reread that last line because it did not make sense, then you know where I am right now.  

Green light.

 

[flowerpath]

I waver when it comes to resentment.   This is something really good to think about. 

Just as we can decide what our boundaries are and whether we will enforce them, and just as we can choose to use other pieces of our tool kit, it seems that it's possible to do the same with resentment.  Is it too simple to or far too difficult to protect our hearts and minds by choosing a healthier thought in place of resentment, and steer our thoughts in that direction the moment we start to feel resentful?   After all, resentment can eat away at us too. 

Today, she is out of state in her home town interviewing for a job because she wants to get a divorce and move back.

If you just reread that last line because it did not make sense, then you know where I am right now.   

Green light.   

My husband has said he is going to do things like that, but has never followed through.  If he ever did it, I think it would be to feel in control of things, to relieve some kind of emotional pressure, or maybe even to cause me some distress, and afterwards say it’s not actually what he wants to do. 

Being ready for both the expected and the unexpected - it's exhausting.  What was the outcome?

[Grey Kitty]

I waver when it comes to resentment.   This is something really good to think about. 

Just as we can decide what our boundaries are and whether we will enforce them, and just as we can choose to use other pieces of our tool kit, it seems that it's possible to do the same with resentment.  Is it too simple to or far too difficult to protect our hearts and minds by choosing a healthier thought in place of resentment, and steer our thoughts in that direction the moment we start to feel resentful?   After all, resentment can eat away at us too.

I view resentment as the natural consequence of stuffing our original feelings. It is how the anger or hurt we didn't let ourselves experience comes back.

Given that perspective, the solution is either to enforce better boundaries (so we don't get hurt/angry), which avoids having those negative feelings to stuff.

The other part is to let go of our unrealistic expectations of our partner (so we don't get disappointed, hurt, or angry)... .and this generally involves grieving the r/s you thought/hoped you had and/or the partner you thought/hoped you had.

[formflier]

Today, she is out of state in her home town interviewing for a job because she wants to get a divorce and move back.

If you just reread that last line because it did not make sense, then you know where I am right now.  

Green light.

 

Yeah... .I've heard that in my r/s a bunch.  Less now that I pay less attention to it.

So... over the years there have been tons of plans to move to be close to her family and get this job or that job... "and there would be nothing I could do about it... "

They are very tiring to hear... .there is no talking sense to them when they toss out these "plans".  Plus... .I talked with a L (lawyer) in my state and figured out that I could have them (kids) back in 10 days if I take a certain legal route.

So... if it is common that she uses divorce threats... .I would pay the job interview less attention.

If this is a new thing... maybe something for us to talk about.

My wife is STAHM.  Her effectiveness varies greatly based on her mood.  I could see a point in a couple years where her working would make more sense... .and I think that would balance our r/s much better.

Has your wife done the STAHM thing before?

FF

[townhouse]

A lot in this thread has been helpful to me, most especially the following quote from FF


"In many cases you don't even have to explain.  They start being verbally abusive... you walk away.  With consistent application... they will get it.  Remember... .you don't care if they like it... .a boundary is about you.  "

I think I did this the other day. I was talking to SO about my nephew and I was saying he had become very aloof and "know all"now he was a teenager ( I understand kids are like this but this boy is quite extreme and I am trying to put it nicely) Anyway UnBPDSO says "so it runs in the family then" I looked confused so he says "well you're stuck up and think you know everything" It takes a big gulp to not Jade and to not say "Projection" but I managed to say "Really... .ummm do you want a cup of coffee" and I walked out into the kitchen. No more was said and so a fragile moment averted.

I sure hope he get the idea that I will walk away when he starts on my personal traits.

[flowerpath]

@townhouse~  I was the target of a lot of verbal abuse and ugly moods.  The "actions speak louder than words" way of enforcing my boundary - leaving the room quickly and quietly or slowly and quietly - whatever the behavior called for, fits my personality well and has made a big difference for me.  I have never even said a word about it. 

It was a little hard for me to change and get the hang of it, but folks here walked me through it.  Sometimes it was very inconvenient for me to leave the room.  Sometimes I didn't leave quickly enough or stay gone long enough and there was a bit of an extinction burst, but it has been well worth everything it takes to do.  I say most of this in the past tense because it worked so well that the times I have to leave the room now are few.  But I know I can if I ever need to. 

[formflier]

"Really... .ummm do you want a cup of coffee" and I walked out into the kitchen. No more was said and so a fragile moment averted.

 

How often do things like this get said in your r/s?

Nice work on the reaction to an obvious attempt to start a fight.

FF

[Cole]

Today, she is out of state in her home town interviewing for a job because she wants to get a divorce and move back.

If you just reread that last line because it did not make sense, then you know where I am right now.  

Green light.

 

Yeah... .I've heard that in my r/s a bunch.  Less now that I pay less attention to it.

So... over the years there have been tons of plans to move to be close to her family and get this job or that job... "and there would be nothing I could do about it... "

They are very tiring to hear... .there is no talking sense to them when they toss out these "plans".  Plus... .I talked with a L (lawyer) in my state and figured out that I could have them (kids) back in 10 days if I take a certain legal route.

So... if it is common that she uses divorce threats... .I would pay the job interview less attention.

If this is a new thing... maybe something for us to talk about.

My wife is STAHM.  Her effectiveness varies greatly based on her mood.  I could see a point in a couple years where her working would make more sense... .and I think that would balance our r/s much better.

Has your wife done the STAHM thing before?

FF

Not a new thing, she is extremely impulsive and always coming up with something contradictory to what she said the day before. What really makes me want to say I have had enough is that she wasted a lot of gas, left me with the kids on a day I had a major project due, and wasted the interviewer's time. She does not want the job, she just wants them to say they want her.

Just tired of the back and forth. Today she is back to super mom/super wife mode. Tomorrow she will probably want to join the circus as a lion tamer. The day after, she will be stable, self aware of the way she has acted, and cry all day out of embarrassment and shame.

Yes, she was a STAHM when the kids were little. She was stable, and we were very happy. Come to think of it, she showed no signs of BPD or bipolar until she went back to college and work. Hmmmm... . 

Maybe I am expecting too much too soon.

     

[waverider]

Yes, she was a STAHM when the kids were little. She was stable, and we were very happy. Come to think of it, she showed no signs of BPD or bipolar until she went back to college and work. Hmmmm... . 



     

Seems like she suffers from an abilty to impose realistic structure on herself. Being a STAHM (I used to be a STAHD) means structure is forced on you. Obligation and responsibility is forced on you. Without it being forced on them the motivators of Impulse, neediness, and Instant gratification take over with a twist of the delusional thinking of an armchair expert (I could do that and be rich and famous).

[HoldingAHurricane]

I participated in arguments and stayed in negative discussions too long because I was DESPERATE for acknowledgement. I wanted him to see that I had a valid point more than anything in the world. He was a person out of his rational mind and not capable of acknowledging or validating me in those moments (and I thought he was the crazy one  ). My therapist asked me to try journaling to learn self validation skills. I started writing all the things I want to hear in the form of a conversation between she and I. I'd write all the things she would typically say to me because I didn't even have an internal template for self compassion and validation. It helped the compulsion to stay in the unhelpful discussions and go back for round 2,3,4... .

Meeting me own need for validation helped me detach more because I didn't need him for that anymore. In being more detached, I could view him more objectively and then compassionately. It was harder for me to lose my balance when I was detached but compassionate. 

Building a sense of self compassion and validation skills also helped me enforce the boundary of not being in conversations where he was being verbally abusive anymore because I seriously believed for the first time I deserve better.

[formflier]

 

Congratulations on this new skill!

It sounds like you enjoy using it and have seen benefits in your r/s from this.   

FF

[Cole]

Yes, she was a STAHM when the kids were little. She was stable, and we were very happy. Come to think of it, she showed no signs of BPD or bipolar until she went back to college and work. Hmmmm... .  



     

Seems like she suffers from an abilty to impose realistic structure on herself. Being a STAHM (I used to be a STAHD) means structure is forced on you. Obligation and responsibility is forced on you. Without it being forced on them the motivators of Impulse, neediness, and Instant gratification take over with a twist of the delusional thinking of an armchair expert (I could do that and be rich and famous).

WR, 

Interesting analysis. I will have to wait and see if the obligation and responsibility of being mom again (I have been both mom and dad for years) will help curb the impulsiveness, delusional thinking, and overall daily confusion.

Last night she was very affectionate and loving when we were at a family event with friends. Two hours later she was telling me she cannot wait to leave. Man, this is getting old.

It is interesting you mention neediness. That has been a major problem for years, with her seeking approval and acceptance from anyone and everyone she has ever met, even people she has not seen since HS 30 years ago.

 

I said months ago I was giving it to the first of June to improve or I was leaving. Packing up the "parachute" until then.

[formflier]

Two hours later she was telling me she cannot wait to leave. Man, this is getting old.

Is it old because she is saying it... . or old because you are hearing it... .again?

What would happen to your outlook on your r/s if you listened and participated when she is affectionate and "nice"... . and excused yourself from conversations where she was telling you she wanted to leave.

Even better:  If YOU are having a good day... . feeling strong... .etc etc.  Find a couple things to validate and attempt to change the subject.  If it works... .stick with the conversation.  If it doesn't... . leave the conversation.

Thoughts?

FF

[formflier]

I said months ago I was giving it to the first of June to improve or I was leaving. Packing up the "parachute" until then.

Might be better to break off the reply to this into a different thread... . but here are some things that come to mind.

First:  I like the timetable.  That way no daily debate about "can I do this?" or not.  You can focus on tools and lessons... . rather than focus on a debate about "doability".  You've decided to work it for a period of time... . nice.   

Is she aware of this timetable?

What does "improve" look like? 

What are you going to change... . in order to affect change in the r/s?

FF

[Cole]

First:  I like the timetable.  That way no daily debate about "can I do this?" or not.  You can focus on tools and lessons... . rather than focus on a debate about "doability".  You've decided to work it for a period of time... . nice.  

Is she aware of this timetable?

What does "improve" look like?  

What are you going to change... . in order to affect change in the r/s?

FF

FF,

Improve looks like this:

1) Stop looking to your friends for counseling. They are not professionals. Half of them are more messed up than you and are doing more harm than good.

2) Stop counseling your messed up friends. You cannot deal with your own problems, stop taking on their drama.

3) Find a T you trust and start going. I will go with you, if you want. If she/he is not right, we will look for another until we find the right one.

4) I and the kids are to be a priority over FB friends or people you went to high school with and have not seen in 25 years.

5) Find a solution to the lack of intimacy in our marriage. We know the problem, now let's find a good T to help.

6) I will help you accomplish all these things, but in the end it is your responsibility.  

She has it in writing, along with the date. Since quitting her job last week, she has been more family oriented and less wrapped around all these rediscovered "friends" from high school, except for the announcement about the job interview. We will see if it continues in this direction. I have been both mom and dad to the kids and living with a house mate instead of a spouse for years. I am done. Time for her to decide if she wants to be part of this family or run around her home town trying to relive high school.

What would happen to your outlook on your r/s if you listened and participated when she is affectionate and "nice"... . and excused yourself from conversations where she was telling you she wanted to leave.

FF

When she is affectionate, I put my guard up because I never know what to expect next. I suppose that is what I need to change. Thank you for helping me see that, FF.