Small Steps in giving space and maintaining limits.

[misuniadziubek]

This is so small, yet so significant for me. My bf always wants me to give him a time on when I will be coming over. My need to please has always been so darned overwhelming that I'd give him time limits that were difficult for me to manage, and considering I have anxiety issues of my own, unrealistic deadlines leave me worse off.

I'd be late. Too scared to text him that I'll be late. He'd be angry. Get angrier over me not sending him updates. Everything would be my fault.

I have stopped giving these sorts of deadlines to please him. If I know I need more time, I'll let him know, but once I give a deadline, I stick to it. Even though sometimes he's unhappy with the deadline, I've restrained myself from changing my plans to avoid causing affects in him. I need to be comfortable with my own deadlines. My life is important too.

Today he texted asking when I'd be coming over tomorrow. I told him that since I'm working on sending resumes for get new job, it will probably be later in the evening,  with a 'why, what time did you have in mind' (attempt 1 at asking for input)

I got a 'k then' response. It's his way of expressing unhappiness or disappointment by distancing himself or being passive aggressive.

Honestly, it triggers my anxiety and that internal struggle to 'fix things'. Part of me wants to give in to his requests, make him happy, because I'm less anxious when he's happy. But I consciously remind myself that I'm not responsible for his emotions. I can only fix mine.

So just to make sure he knows that I'm open to suggestion, I ask again. "Was there a better time that you were thinking of?"

I get a simple. 'Nah. It's cool.'  I might hear about it later, but at this point, the conversation is over on my part. I've given him two explicit opportunities to explain what's on his mind and he has chosen to not take either.

My responsibility in the conversation ends and I move onto doing my own stuff even despite my gnawing uncertainty and anxiety over not knowing what's going on.

As I said. This might seem small, but to me, it's a huge deal.

I have a very serious codependency(?) over my history with my NPD mom. Every time I displeased her she would give me the silent treatment or keep drilling into me that I should feel bad over not doing everything according to how she wanted it with constant guilt trips. This has overlapped into my relationship with my bf perfectly. He expresses the same reactions I used to get when I was young, and so triggers those very same emotions each time.

And this is me regaining control and lessening those triggers. It will take a lot of time, but this seems like the perfect playing field for perfecting my reactions and maintaining my limits.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Indiegrl]

This topic interests me. Recognize the dynamics, know the feeling of getting stuck, helpless. Even though I make it difficult too, giving myself hard deadlines... . if I will be 15 minutes late; I have no respect, no care for... . So I stopped giving deadlines. But 4 hours without a text made me worse in his eyes. A knot in my stomach just by writing this.

I applaud you on your steps on deadlines :-)

And it seems like you may benefit from reflecting more om the relation between your mother and your bf. It's empowering, I think.

Tace care.

[misuniadziubek]

Even though I make it difficult too, giving myself hard deadlines... . if I will be 15 minutes late; I have no respect, no care for... . So I stopped giving deadlines. But 4 hours without a text made me worse in his eyes. A knot in my stomach just by writing this.

This is exactly what I was going through!

I live two hours away and across a country border, so of course it's possible that I'd get stuck in traffic or held up at customs... .

It didn't matter. I didn't keep my word. Didn't respect his time. Could not be depended on. He convinced himself I didn't love or respect him enough to be on time, an absolute truth. And I just grew more anxious every time that I got behind the wheel to drive up. If I texted him too late about unforeseen circumstances such as an accident on the road or the border having a lineup ( not within 5 minutes of finding out) I would get an angry text or call. And so texting him this sort of news would leave me panicked and id put it off even more.

At one point, I started to leave 45 minutes earlier than I said I was and spend any extra time at the McDonalds near his house. He never acknowledged if I was early, unless I was too early and that was bad too.

Then the not giving deadlines period, which led to exactly what you described. 4 hrs without a text. And he would be madder. Which is why he started to ask when I planned to be there a day earlier. "Cause I never tell him" .

Sigh. I still put off telling him exact times. I have a vague idea but until I know for sure, there's no point.

In terms of the mother-bf thing, I got the book recently, healing daughters of narcissistic mother's. My mom has lost 90% of her narcissistic tendencies in the last 6 years. I can't explain it, but the fact that I started enacting limits drastically improved the relationship.

[Indiegrl]

I didn't keep my word. Didn't respect his time. Could not be depended on. He convinced himself I didn't love or respect him enough to be on time, an absolute truth. And I just grew more anxious

yes yes yes. Same thing going on here. My mind knows how unreasonable it is, my stomach hurting and me growing more anxious. One thing is the punishment for being a bit late, another thing being portrayed as a bad partner who doesn't love and respect. I've never respected any man more, before thing got a bit intimidating, never felt a love like that. Makes your head spin... .

[Notwendy]

Although you call it a small step, it is huge to realize that you are not responsible for his feelings, not to blame if something out of your control delays your arrival. Yes, it is courteous to let him know that you are being delayed, but if he decides to feel a certain way about it, that isn't under your control.

I recognize the feeling of anxiety and tip toeing around someone. It took a lot of work to not be triggered by it, or feel responsible and that was a huge step to recognize this. I also feared my H making up stories about what I said to him. I could say something that had no intentions and it would trigger that thinking in his head of being rejected or criticized. It's sort of like - if you are late ( not your control) your bf somehow adds his own meaning to that. But that is his meaning, not yours. I used to spend so much energy responding to my H's accusations but I realized that this was JADEing and adding attention to them. If I defended something, then that, in a way, showed him that I accepted them as something to defend.

My measuring stick for this is the "pink elephant" analogy. If someone accused you of being a pink elephant, would you spend time and energy trying to convince them that you are not a pink elephant, or would you think the person is making something up. You are absolutely certain you are not a pink elephant.

When someone we care about accuses us of something, we buy into it because we care about them, and since we care, we start to defend it. However, if it isn't true and you know it, you have nothing to defend. If I am accused of something, when I start to feel upset and anxious, I ask myself- is this true about me. Does this pass the pink elephant test? Then I decide, that's ridiculous, I am not that.

When we are codependent, we have a hard time with the boundary- what is me, and what is not me ( my partner). We are so merged with them emotionally that we buy into their ideas, and that leaves us open to really believe their criticisms. However, I think a part of you knows that these criticisms are not true. When we ignore our own reality and accept someone else's we feel anxious and sad.

It took a long time before I could hear my H's accusation, some of it quite logically framed and think to myself "no way is this true". Then, I stopped trying to fix it, or defend it. It has diminished some, because I don't pay attention to it by defending it. This doesn't mean I am cruel or invalidating to his feelings, I  just don't buy into the accusations that are not true.

Good progress. This is  BIG step.

[formflier]

My measuring stick for this is the "pink elephant" analogy. If someone accused you of being a pink elephant, would you spend time and energy trying to convince them that you are not a pink elephant, or would you think the person is making something up. You are absolutely certain you are not a pink elephant.

Notwendy,

I love this!   

Something to add to this thinking... . once you are not the pink elephant... . then you know it's not about you... . THEN YOU SHOULDN'T TAKE IT PERSONALLY.

The "taking it personally" part was hard for me... . and to be honest... . I hadn't even heard of that concept until last summer. 

This doesn't mean you aren't concerned... . that you don't empathize or express sympathy... . but you don't "own" it.

FF

[formflier]

Today he texted asking when I'd be coming over tomorrow. I told him that since I'm working on sending resumes for get new job, it will probably be later in the evening,  with a 'why, what time did you have in mind' (attempt 1 at asking for input)

It sounds like you are frustrated by his lack of input?  True?

I've got ideas... . but want to make sure this is a problem you want to work on.

FF

[misuniadziubek]

Today he texted asking when I'd be coming over tomorrow. I told him that since I'm working on sending resumes for get new job, it will probably be later in the evening,  with a 'why, what time did you have in mind' (attempt 1 at asking for input)

It sounds like you are frustrated by his lack of input?  True?

I've got ideas... . but want to make sure this is a problem you want to work on.

FF

Oh, most definitely. That's the newest skill I'm trying to work on. Dealing with my frustration without triggering him in the process.

I have an urge to push him to give me an answer and that undeniably backfires so I limit myself to two requests for input before I let it go, otherwise he gets frustrated and claims I nag him.

If I give him ample opportunities to answer, then he can no longer guilt me over not succumbing to his plans.

[formflier]

 

I like the two request limit.  Easy to follow... .and factual.

My other suggestion is that you be a little more non-committal in your responses... . and totally put the ball in his court.

So... . "what time are you coming over"

you:  Not sure yet... .   What time would you suggest?

leave it at that.

It's totally up to him.

Thoughts?

FF

[misuniadziubek]

I like the two request limit.  Easy to follow... .and factual.

My other suggestion is that you be a little more non-committal in your responses... . and totally put the ball in his court.

So... . "what time are you coming over"

you:  Not sure yet... .  What time would you suggest?

leave it at that.

It's totally up to him.

Thoughts?

FF

I've actually tried that before starting on the two request limit. I would usually get responses like 'I dunno." "Up to you."

He would then say that I was too indecisive, leaving too many things up to him. Bad if you do, bad if you don't.

I also tried options, like would you prefer me earlier or later. When I couldn't commit to earlier, I'd get complaints that I always come so darned late.

I gave him a final answer on coming up at 5 today. Got a passive aggressive response, "K thx 4 help."

Apparently he needed me earlier, but didn't say anything. Go figure.

Doesn't really matter now. I committed to a job. I need money. There was no compromise left.

[formflier]

 

I'm thinking that you might want to try leaving it in his court... . again.

When he complains... . validate the feeling of the complaint... . very different than agreeing that you are indecisive.

Here is the thing... .if you know for sure when you are going... . tell him.

If you don't know... . ask for input... . and don't ever apologize for not knowing.

Live your life... . do your own thing.  Focus on the time you can give him... . not the time you can't.

When he complains that you are not there... . validate the feeling... . most likely loneliness.

Not sure what he is feeling... . ask.  If he doesn't want to talk about it... . conversation over... . do you own thing.

I can see you are getting the hang on this... . and thinking it through!

FF

[Grey Kitty]

I live two hours away and across a country border, so of course it's possible that I'd get stuck in traffic or held up at customs... .

How about something like "I'll be there somewhere between 2 and 3; I'll text you when I'm through customs and XX minutes away."

Or even (depending on how bad it is)... .when you arrive and get a ration of crap, say "I came here to enjoy your company, not to be berated about being late. If you don't stop this immediately, I'm going back home." That might be a little extreme... .as I said, depends on how bad he is.

[misuniadziubek]

I live two hours away and across a country border, so of course it's possible that I'd get stuck in traffic or held up at customs... .

How about something like "I'll be there somewhere between 2 and 3; I'll text you when I'm through customs and XX minutes away."

Or even (depending on how bad it is)... .when you arrive and get a ration of crap, say "I came here to enjoy your company, not to be berated about being late. If you don't stop this immediately, I'm going back home." That might be a little extreme... .as I said, depends on how bad he is.

That actually sounds like a pretty good solution.

The result of this recent situation were such:

He texted me at 4:30 angry that I had not updated him on 4 hours. 

I ended up leaving job without finishing my work to make it at a reasonable time to see him. I texted id probably be there at 6:30 but giving such a specific time ruined it. I didn't jade. I wrote text halfway there validating him and asking how he thinks I could handle the situation considering I told him that I'd be there after 5 but considering the nature of the job, I didn't know what time I'd be done.

I still needed to shower and deposit money to bank.  Took me an extra 20 minutes. Sigh.

I come up there 6:55 with him super angry, saying I'm always late. O haven't been late since Halloween night, but I don't jade. He's yelling at me about being late, wasting his time.

I let him be angry for a bit without taking it personally or saying much other than that I didn't realize he needed me.

What the actual situation was? He bought a car, needed me to drive him to get it. Needed me to follow him to drop it off at his mom's house. Needed me to drive him to his friends place and it turns out there was a party there and he wanted me to be DD.  He calmed down once we got to his mom's.

I didn't know any of this or why he was under a time constraint, and that bothers me. If I'm going to a house warming party, I'd  like to know ahead of time.

[formflier]

I let him be angry for a bit without taking it personally or saying much other than that I didn't realize he needed me.

   

How did it go... .?  Listening without taking it personally.

Do you think you would have felt better... .if you had listened to less of it?

[misuniadziubek]

How did it go... .?  Listening without taking it personally.

Do you think you would have felt better... .if you had listened to less of it?

Honestly, it wasn't as terribly bad as it has been in the past, since I have a stronger sense of self than I used to. It was the initial outburst that was a little terrifying, fed into my -old- feelings of inadequacy that passed quickly and turned to anger, considering how unjust his assertions are. (Haven't come late in 6 months)


I wasn't in a situation where I could leave, so i had to cope. We had somewhere to go, and so action took priority over emotion. And so I restrained myself. I would have felt best if the situation hadn't happened period.  Once he's mad and I know it, even without the face to face confrontation I feel bad, but by turning it into empathy and validation rather than JADEing, I maintain my sanity and he can calm down.

It's not logical for him to be angry over what time I came because i asked repeatedly what time he needed me, what was going on. He made the choice to not tell me but act passively aggressive.  Oth, I recognized his need to express how angry he was. Those are his feelings, and I'm not responsible for them. He created the situation. I only slightly aggravated it by coming 30 minutes later than planned, but I also told him I wouldn't be able to specify a time. Yet, I didn't stick to that assertion, and that would be a mistake on my part. Next time I have to stick to my guns.

[formflier]

 

How long did you have to listen to the anger until he calmed down?

I'm very glad that you have a stronger sense of self... .that will serve you well!   

[misuniadziubek]

How long did you have to listen to the anger until he calmed down?

I'm very glad that you have a stronger sense of self... .that will serve you well!   

It was maybe 10 minutes at most. Which is a huge improvement on what this exact sort of thing would go for just months ago. Then it was at least an hour, probably longer, followed up by silent treatments and ignoring me and telling me the relationship was doomed.

I think the fact that I tried hard to not invalidate his feelings, even when what he was saying had no merit to it. That's another thing I've been working on. When I can't really validate well, I try to at least not invalidate him.

Im starting to think this isn't a phase in our relationship. I think the dynamic is actually changing.  I'm still reluctant to say that, though, in case it's not true.

[formflier]

Im starting to think this isn't a phase in our relationship. I think the dynamic is actually changing.  I'm still reluctant to say that, though, in case it's not true.

Realize is most likely will not be a linear progression. 

5 steps forward... .2 back... .a zig to the right... .3 steps forward  (big life event) 4 steps back... .2 forward.

You get the picture... .

The key for your strategy is remaining centered... .mindful... .calm... .

If you are having a bad day... .make sure you leave an out to walk away... .

FF