Was my ex-girlfriend a borderline?

[Bensonshays]

what a terrible disorder. I had no chance. Has anyone  succeeded?  

Benson,

Its appealing to think that the person who rejected us is a broken and its not us. Be careful with that.  It's not the most healthy approach to this.

You're right.  But I said earlier that I blamed myself entirely at the beginning. When my therapist first said she probably has a personality disorder, I didn't want to use that to excuse the mistakes I made.  

but to diagnosis her with a PD and start saying things like "she'll never have a good relationship" is more about you trying to shield yourself from the rejection anxiety you are struggling with than the an unbiased assessment of her.

I'm not diagnosing her. One of the reasons I decided to post here is because I didn't want to give in to the temptation you're describing.

Because, you may very well be faced with a long term relationship that fails at some point - and if a "one monther" is this traumatic, imagine how failure in a longer, deeper relationship will be.

I was late to the dating game, and this was my first attempt at a relationship. This is no doubt making things more difficult.  

For example - when she had not ended her prior relationship and you were intimate with her, you were in stepping into an ultra high risk situation.

That didn't happen. I was giving her foreign language lessons, and I didn't make a move until she told me her last relationship had ended.  


 

A big lesson here is not to do this to yourself again.

I agree. Had she been willing to cheat on her bf with me, or revealed that she wanted a casual relationship, I never would have got involved with her. But everything she did suggested that she wanted a committed relationship.

Don't be surprised if she once again contacts you. Most likely when you are moving on with your life.

How do you guys respond when your ex's  break no contact? I'm anticipating that mine will be checking up to see if I'm willing to give her some attention. She did that once after the break up.

The bigger question is whether you are going to pursue this relationship if given a chance or if you see that it is unhealthy proposition that will likely cause you more pain and stay away from it. 

I know it's the latter. But I wonder if I should interact with her at all. We have many mutual friends and I'll inevitably see her again at some point.

[Madison66]

Hi Bensonshays,

I'm going on 17 months of being out of a 3+ year r/s with uBPD/NPD ex gf.  The things that you stated your ex gf said or texted during the beginning of your r/s have great similarities to what I experienced.  I had opportunities to walk away early on or to not pursue my ex gf when she would strongly hint at breaking up or not being ready for a r/s.  I didn't and I own that.  Again, I stayed for over three years and things progressively got worse.  The push/pull got worse.  The emotional abuse/blackmail got worse.  My neglect of my own needs and values got worse.  Her rages turned physical towards me in the end.  I left the r/s and struggled for six or eight months while I turned the focus inward.

I no longer spend much time analyzing the r/s other than simply knowing that it didn't work for me.  The emotional immaturity, push/pull, neediness, emotional abuse/blackmail, chaos, emotional roller coaster and ultimate physical abuse all were adverse to my own values.  The longer I stayed, the worse it got and it doesn't matter what I wanted to label her.  The r/s was dysfunctional, unhealthy and didn't at all meet my expectations.  Along with all of this, there was nothing I could do to change the outcome and in time I recovered and detached.  I feel like I received many gifts of wisdom from the experience and most importantly I revived an old r/s in my life = with me!  I am now in a healthy r/s with a fabulous person with whom I share many values and interests.  This r/s looks NOTHING like the one with my ex gf. 

I can see your frustration and hurt from your posts.  IMHO, she did you a favor walking away and you can now work on yourself and foster r/s with people you share interests and value with.  Take your time parsing this one out.  I needed a good amount of time to work through the effects of my past r/s.  I still come back to this site to maintain my perspective and awareness of what I once dealt with.  The sun will shine again and I wish you the best!

[Bensonshays]

I can see your frustration and hurt from your posts.  IMHO, she did you a favor walking away and you can now work on yourself and foster r/s with people you share interests and value with.  Take your time parsing this one out.  I needed a good amount of time to work through the effects of my past r/s.  I still come back to this site to maintain my perspective and awareness of what I once dealt with.  The sun will shine again and I wish you the best!

Thanks. I agree that getting away was a good idea, but I still struggle with the rejection on occasion. The physical and emotional intimacy was a powerful combination, and it was there from the very beginning. Losing it sent me into a state that I imagine is comparable to drug withdrawal.

The good news is that the things I miss about her I can get from someone else, and without all the baggage she carries. I've also gotten to work fixing a number of things about myself that I didn't realize needed attention, so a lot of good has come from my time with her.   

[Bensonshays]

There were a few other things she did that I wanted input on. About a week after the break up, with no contact during that period, I saw her at a couple of social events that I had to attend. I was friendly and tried to hide the frustration I was feeling. I said hi and gave her a hug to avoid any awkwardness, because we were going to be around each other all night. She squeezed me tightly when we hugged, and later when I walked by her on my way to the bathroom, she didn't move out of my path so I lightly bumped her with my shoulder as I passed by. She also stuck her leg out behind her to trip me as I walked back. She also teased me about some of my fb posts, which I playfully rebuffed. We were flirting, but I didn't understand why she was engaging me like this. I was still a mess at this point and really wanted her back, so flirting with her seemed appropriate. What was her motivation? Looking back, I'd say she was probably just toying with me, though I'm not sure.

Then two days later, she sent me a fake text. She made it look like it was for one of her friends, but there's no way she would have accidentally sent it to me. Since we hadn't texted for over a week, she had to scroll down to our conversation on her list of text threads. I thought this was just her fishing for validation and/or looking for confirmation that she made the right choice in dumping me.

Do you all agree?

[Mister Brightside]

What was her motivation? Looking back, I'd say she was probably just toying with me, though I'm not sure.

I thought this was just her fishing for validation and/or looking for confirmation that she made the right choice in dumping me.

Do you all agree?

I'm not sure I understand how sending you a fake text would have validated her decision to dump you. Can you explain your thought processes on this is?

Her motivation for everything you mentioned (flirting, fake texts, etc.) is to keep you at a distance in her life. Remember, borderlines fear abandonment to an extreme. So she's going to keep herself comfortable with you in her life at an arm's length, trying to confirm that you're still available. Play her game (flirting/not remaining no contact), and she'll feel comfortable. Ignore her all together (no validation that you're thinking about her anymore), and she'll freak the ____ out.

[Bensonshays]

What was her motivation? Looking back, I'd say she was probably just toying with me, though I'm not sure.

I thought this was just her fishing for validation and/or looking for confirmation that she made the right choice in dumping me.

Do you all agree?

I'm not sure I understand how sending you a fake text would have validated her decision to dump you. Can you explain your thought processes on this is?

I think that she was baiting me and suspect her rationale was something like: "I just told you that I don't want you as a boyfriend. Are you still willing to chase me?"

And I was. I responded despite my better judgement because I thought she may have had dumper's remorse. After we exchanged a couple of texts, I called her and she screened my call. She sent me a few more texts, but her replies became terse and I sensed annoyance in her words:

Her: I've got screaming kids right now (she's a daycare provider), what's up?"

Me: nothing, just saying hi. have a good day.

Her: Thank you [my name]. I hope you have a great day!

I sent that text in the foreign language I was teaching her. We used to practice that way while we dated. She sent her final reply in English, and I think she knew that would bother me.

 

Her motivation for everything you mentioned (flirting, fake texts, etc.) is to keep you at a distance in her life. Remember, borderlines fear abandonment to an extreme. So she's going to keep herself comfortable with you in her life at an arm's length, trying to confirm that you're still available. Play her game (flirting/not remaining no contact), and she'll feel comfortable. Ignore her all together (no validation that you're thinking about her anymore), and she'll freak the ____ out.

Everything I mentioned took place in late January. I haven't seen or spoken to her since early February, and that was because we both had to perform at a concert. I'm sure she still keeps tabs on my facebook profile, but I haven't initiated any contact with her, or even spoken to our mutual friends about her.

[Bensonshays]

what a terrible disorder. I had no chance. Has anyone  succeeded?  

... .to diagnosis her with a PD and start saying things like "she'll never have a good relationship" is more about you trying to shield yourself from the rejection anxiety you are struggling with than the an unbiased assessment of her.

It will help to see yourself in all of this.  There are things in you that make this hard to shake off.  Take them on.

I've been thinking about your comments for the last few days and I was hoping you would elaborate. I'll admit that there was a certain appeal to the possibility that she has an untreated personality disorder, because it gave me a thread with which to link all the erratic behavior I couldn't explain. Before my therapist brought up BPD as an explanation, I had not considered that she may be unstable in some way. I just attributed the sudden end of the relationship to my inexperience and insecurity. That made me feel terrible but I was still willing to accept it. So I'm wondering what an objective assessment of the situation looks like, in your opinion.

Not having her around is really frustrating, but as a part of going NC I've also completely pulled out of the social circle that we share. Being around our mutual friends is embarrassing because they all know what happened, and there's an added level of stress because I have to carry on like nothing is bothering me. Instead of subjecting myself to that, I just decided to get away until my emotions even out.

The point is, I've altered my life pretty drastically because of the break up, though I don't want those changes to be permanent. Looking at this entire experience fairly is an important part of getting over it and restoring some normalcy. But I don't know how to figure out where I "may have stumbled," as you put it.  

[Skip]

It's not all you.  Its not all neat in a mental illness package either.

You will need to work this for a while to really get it.  But from the little you have said, this sounds like she has issues in her last relationship, rebounded into you, it wasn't exactly what she wanted, and she bounced down the line to the next guy. She may bounce again. It's not pathological.

Knowing what happened in the last relationship is as significant as any mental health issues. Your relationship with her was most likely a part of the breakup of her prior relationship.  The relationship she is in now, may also be the same.  She might bounce around for a year before getting over the prior relationship and settling down. Its possible her prior relationship was a continuation of her marriage that ended in the shocking death of her husband.

I don't know what happened, but likely one or two prior relationships are playing far more into this than you are thinking.

Does she have issues?  There are many signs of emotional maturity.  Is it pathological?  I don't think anyone knows based on the little information you have, but its possible.

Lastly, if you're going to date, you have to approach every relationship with the knowledge that a million things can go wrong in the first 90 - 120 days so don't sell you soul to early.  Its also important to not be too easy, or too practical, or too ______. It's important to let things play out and be court a partner.

That's a lot of speculation on my part, but it should give you three tracks to start examining with members here.

[Bensonshays]

You will need to work this for a while to really get it.  But from the little you have said, this sounds like she has issues in her last relationship, rebounded into you, it wasn't exactly what she wanted, and she bounced down the line to the next guy. She may bounce again. It's not pathological.

What have I said that makes you think this was a rebound relationship? And what do you mean when you say "rebound?" I always thought it meant using one partner to get over another. She harbored a crush on me in the months leading up to our fling/relationship; I stayed away precisely because it seemed risky to go after someone in a committed relationship. And once we started dating, nothing she did or said suggested that she was in it for the short term. Unless I'm missing the subtlety of your point. 

Knowing what happened in the last relationship is as significant as any mental health issues. Your relationship with her was most likely a part of the breakup of her prior relationship.  The relationship she is in now, may also be the same.  She might bounce around for a year before getting over the prior relationship and settling down. Its possible her prior relationship was a continuation of her marriage that ended in the shocking death of her husband.

That seems possible. After her husband died, I know she dated a couple of other guys before the boyfriend prior to me. So your bouncing theory makes sense, however I wonder if it's her traumatic past that's causing her to blow up relationships unnecessarily, or if I (and the others) did something that pushed her away. This is where my insecurity comes in. I've worked hard to improve my romantic prospects in the last few years, and failing so soon into a relationship I wanted to last is very depressing.

I don't know what happened, but likely one or two prior relationships are playing far more into this than you are thinking.

How?

Does she have issues?  There are many signs of emotional maturity.  Is it pathological?  I don't think anyone knows based on the little information you have, but its possible.

What would confirm that it's pathological? I ask because BPD or some kind of cluster B disorder explains a lot in my mind. The immediate attachment, random mood swings between neediness and distance, weird loyalty tests, adopting three toddlers as you're entering a new relationship, and of course the sudden rejection. The last one isn't telling by itself, but I went from being the greatest thing since sliced bread to completely unworthy of her affection within the span of a week.

Lastly, if you're going to date, you have to approach every relationship with the knowledge that a million things can go wrong in the first 90 - 120 days so don't sell you soul to early.  Its also important to not be too easy, or too practical, or too ______. It's important to let things play out and be court a partner.

Naturally, and I tried to do just that. I really liked her but I was careful to ease into things for precisely that reason. That's why I was cautious about calling and texting too much, and why I agreed to having her wait to meet my family. I didn't rush into labeling our relationship, either. I was consciously taking all these steps to keep my own neediness in check and let things evolve as they may, because that was always my downfall. But this strategy blew up in my face. The whole courtship was distorted by the behaviors I mentioned above.

[Skip]

Bensonshays - I'm giving you pathways to explore. Take some time, talk it through it with the members and your counselor.

Here is a decent definition of rebound relationship:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/intense-emotions-and-strong-feelings/201309/rebound-relationships

I think the bottom line is what are you looking for?  I thought you wanted to understand the human aspects of what happened here to help you go forward.  I also get the sense that having a simple "she's crazy" might be good enough.

The fact is that you are not seeing all these other pieces that play into what might have happened.  You will see these things again in other relationships. You need to develop the skills to read them and react to them in life.

Based on what you've told me, and if it was me, I'd write most of this off as "under 90 days".  It could be anything and you may not figure it out with certainty.  I'd look at my own behavior and try to determine if I was doing anything that was really off so that I could learn from the experience and I move forward.  Courting someone in the early days is complicated - and with Internet dating - its really easy for someone to see a blemish and run.

This is the world we are in right now.

I wouldn't look at her, based solely on how she acted for the 30 days you were together.  She had a huge life changing event (death of a husband), bounced into a relationship with you and bounced on to someone else which is an indication that she wasn't too significantly connected to either of these partnerships.  Maybe she just into having fun right now.

Is this because she is living in the moment (following a death), rebounding, going through a phase, has always been emotionally immature, or has some personality defect doesn't really matter - she was not emotionally available to you.

That's the read you needed to see.  

And sex is not necessarily an emotional connection.  Sometimes it's just validation.

If you too quickly pack this in a mental illness box, you may lose the opportunity to understand that there are other reasons why people act this way that aren't mental illness - that this is an integral part of dating.  Also, if you start seeing normal psychology as mental illness, you may start seeing signs in everyone you date that suggest that they are mentally ill and not learn how to interact.

What do you think?

[Bensonshays]

What do you think?

The experience with this girl was much differect than anything I've dealt with before. I wasn't  prepared for a lot of her behavior and that made me second guess myself at every turn. I think she started to sense that, too, which probably planted some doubt in her mind about me as a long term partner.

But I honestly don't know what to think. What you're saying sounds plausible,  though so does the BPD explanation. Whatever scuttled the relationship,  the fact remains that I was outmatched. Things went awry very quickly; I could sense it the last week but I didn't know how to right the ship in time. That's what continues to irritate me.

[Bensonshays]

Something else I just thought of:

The day before she dumped me, she called me and said she wanted more attention from me. She had cancelled our plans twice the previous week, once because she was sad about not getting her foster kids, and again because she had to pick up some work. I told over the phone that if she wanted attention she shouldn't cancel our plans, and when she did cancel our plans, that was my cue to give her some space.

She said, "Well, when you get distant that makes me what to stay away from you, too." I thought that was odd. In my experience, women tend to chase when you leave them alone for a while. I read on this site that borderlines are different; initiating distance can trigger their abandonment fears. That would explain what she said here, but it's possible I'm reading too much into her comments. Thoughts? 

[cosmonaut]

Hey Benson,

You've got a really nice discussion going on here, and I think you are starting to make some realizations about yourself and your relationship.  Keep it up!   

One thing that I seem to notice is that you may think that there is a "system" or set of rules to a relationship.  That you have to do x,y,z and that will have response i,j,k.  Do you think that might be the case?  In actuality, life is much more messy than this.  There isn't a clear answer on how to proceed in a relationship.  Everyone is different and every relationship is different.  This is why communication and understanding and really trying to get to know one another is so important at the start of a relationship (and ever after!).  Sometimes, even when we know our partner really well, it can be hard to know just what they want from us, or why something that is happening in the relationship is upsetting them.  This is why we have to talk to one another.

I'm not entirely sure if you feel that fits, but I thought I'd mention it in case it helps.

[Bensonshays]

One thing that I seem to notice is that you may think that there is a "system" or set of rules to a relationship.  That you have to do x,y,z and that will have response i,j,k.  Do you think that might be the case? 

Not really. I'd say there are some principles that are generally true. For example, I think it's generally the case that women dislike needy men, though I'm sure you could find some who are exceptions to that rule. That being said, I'm trying to figure out what happened. The only way I know how to do that is to look at how she and I interacted in a given situation and then consider what the outcome was. So I could understand why my descriptions are coming across as formulaic.

Everyone is different and every relationship is different.

To an extent, sure. But if this were true in an absolute sense forums like this one would be pointless, because there would be no point in trying to find patterns in people's behavior.

Thanks for your input. I think you're right in the sense that my inexperience played a role in the break up, and I need to date more so I can learn how to deal with the issues that really confused me this time.

[Mister Brightside]

Something else I just thought of:

The day before she dumped me, she called me and said she wanted more attention from me. She had cancelled our plans twice the previous week, once because she was sad about not getting her foster kids, and again because she had to pick up some work. I told over the phone that if she wanted attention she shouldn't cancel our plans, and when she did cancel our plans, that was my cue to give her some space.

She said, "Well, when you get distant that makes me what to stay away from you, too." I thought that was odd. In my experience, women tend to chase when you leave them alone for a while. I read on this site that borderlines are different; initiating distance can trigger their abandonment fears. That would explain what she said here, but it's possible I'm reading too much into her comments. Thoughts?  

You're not reading too much into it. I think it's a fairly safe bet to say your assumptions are correct. If borderlines so much as sense abandonment, or even perceive abandonment that doesn't exist, they'll withdraw first in order to stay in control.

I never actually got into an official relationship with this recent borderline (I dated one ten years ago), and the more she begged to be in a relationship and didn't get me to budge, the more distant she got. She started saying things like, "Well, I'm done trying. I'll still talk to you, but you're going to have to message me first from now on." Mind you, we barely knew one another, so it was perfectly reasonable for me to hold off. Borderlines are not patient people.

[Thread]

Many of the characteristics point to yes. If you decide to try to go back it is a hard and inconsistent road where nothing is ever good enough and always being cornered never being able to win.

I went back after a separation with my BPD husband. I didn't know and wasn't educated on BPD until after I went back.  Not fully aware of what I was re-signing up for. My first therapist had said there was something deep rooted, it was the therapist after the move that nailed it, she having counseled and being married to a pwBPD.

Good luck! Think wise and hard and read all of these posts, people are saying very insightful things.

[Thread]

Also, the more important and more they don't want to lose you, the more prominent their behaviors become. and its similar to hell on earth.

[Bensonshays]

Something else I just thought of:

The day before she dumped me, she called me and said she wanted more attention from me. She had cancelled our plans twice the previous week, once because she was sad about not getting her foster kids, and again because she had to pick up some work. I told over the phone that if she wanted attention she shouldn't cancel our plans, and when she did cancel our plans, that was my cue to give her some space.

She said, "Well, when you get distant that makes me what to stay away from you, too." I thought that was odd. In my experience, women tend to chase when you leave them alone for a while. I read on this site that borderlines are different; initiating distance can trigger their abandonment fears. That would explain what she said here, but it's possible I'm reading too much into her comments. Thoughts?  

You're not reading too much into it. I think it's a fairly safe bet to say your assumptions are correct. If borderlines so much as sense abandonment, or even perceive abandonment that doesn't exist, they'll withdraw first in order to stay in control.

The couple of posters who are skeptical about labeling my ex a borderline are making me rethink a few things. Still, I think BPD explains a lot of what happened.

I never actually got into an official relationship with this recent borderline (I dated one ten years ago), and the more she begged to be in a relationship and didn't get me to budge, the more distant she got. She started saying things like, "Well, I'm done trying. I'll still talk to you, but you're going to have to message me first from now on." Mind you, we barely knew one another, so it was perfectly reasonable for me to hold off. Borderlines are not patient people.

That's what really makes this experience odd--the timeline. We never went through that period where you feel each other out to make sure you want to be together. Things got serious quickly, and she expected certain things of me that I didn't know I was supposed to be doing.

[cosmonaut]

BPD could indeed by the case from what you've said, Benson.  But it's also not really possible to say for certain.  It's clear from everything that you've written that the end of this relationship has seriously affected you, and that's what's the most important here - healing from that.  I think the point that Skip and some others have tried to make, however, is that it's just not possible to know if your ex has BPD.  Even in longer term relationships, it can be hard to say.  At some point, we just have to accept that we can't be certain, and go with our best educated guess.  I know this is a very, very important question to you, and you really want to understand why the relationship ended.  I can completely understand that, and it's natural to need to know what happened.  I just don't want you to get too hung up on trying to solve the mystery, because I don't know that there is a solution.  And you aren't alone in that - many of us here don't have a diagnosis for our ex, and that leaves seeds of doubt in us.  I am the same.

I would try as much as you can to try and take the focus from whether she has BPD or not, and shift it toward why you are feeling so damaged by the end of this relationship.  It is unusual to be this shaken up by the end of a one month relationship, and there is a reason why it has affected you so much.  That is not your fault - you didn't do anything wrong here.  This is something going on below the surface.  Try shifting the focus to exploring what is going on there.  For myself, some really old wounds have been opened by the breakup with my ex due to growing up with a narcissistic mother, and my feelings of being so invisible for much of my life.  It seems likely that there is something that has been activated in you too, from the end of this relationship.

[Skip]

The couple of posters who are skeptical about labeling my ex a borderline are making me rethink a few things. Still, I think BPD explains a lot of what happened.

You are most concerned about is whether you blew it or whether she is broken and it wasn't you.

The point is, that this is not a good way to process this loss.

Sure it is easier to accept that it was her brokenness - but frankly you might just not have been who she wanted - or she was not emotionally available for all the reasons we mentioned.  Or you may have done something that turned her off.  Or she may be crazy.

Can you accept this uncertainty without labeling a villain (either yourself or her)?  This is the question.

Secondly, if confronted with some of the transactions in this relationship again, how might you deal with them differently?

She said she wanted to wait at least four months to meet my family. Naturally I agreed, but she flipped out when I did. "What? You're not supposed to agree with me!" Right before we'd have sex, she would grab me by the temples and ask, "Would you hang out with me if we weren't having sex?"

So this thing about the parents was a test. Some insecurity on her part. She really wanted you to address that.  Same with the sex comment, she was starting to think that the sex got going too soon.

If you are bombarded with this type of thing in the future, how would you read it?  Respond to it?

Its insecurity. How bad was the insecurity?

As for responses... .

The first question is not unusual. "You can't meet my kids for 6 months" is awkward, but not unusual. A good response is, "being part of the family is an important part of good relationship - I want it all to be comfortable for you - no pressure".

The second question is not unusual. She is saying that the relationship seems like its all about sex. A response might be "I like you for who you are" and then cut back on the sex and go another direction - wait for her to initiate (and then your intentions are clear).

My point, is that there are lots of courting rituals and reads in the first 30-60 days that matter.

Don't miss this and bury it all a mental illness box. 

[Bensonshays]

It is unusual to be this shaken up by the end of a one month relationship, and there is a reason why it has affected you so much.  That is not your fault - you didn't do anything wrong here.  This is something going on below the surface.  Try shifting the focus to exploring what is going on there.

Your post struck a nerve. I've been thinking about it all day, and here's the best explanation I can come up with. I was very overweight and socially awkward as a kid. I had a handful of friends, but I hardly ever socialized beyond my tiny circle and girls mortified me. Losing weight in my 20s didn't fix my issues. But I was finally diagnosed with depression two years ago. I started going to therapy and taking an anti-depressant, which was really the turning point. I gradually got over my social anxiety and gained some confidence. I made new friends, pursued my passions, picked up some new hobbies and just generally felt a lot better about life.

I met the girl in question around this time, probably July of last year. I saw her whenever our group of friends got together, though I intentionally stayed distant; I didn't want to be her guy friend. But a few months later, I found out she spoke a little of the language I was learning and wanted to practice. We started meeting for coffee and to study on Fridays in November. She broke up with her boyfriend around this time and I finally asked her out for drinks a couple of weeks later. We were dating after that night.

Anyway, the point is that I worked on myself enough to pursue a girl I wouldn't have dared even talking to a couple of years ago. I was ecstatic when she reciprocated my feelings. Moreover, we bonded over a mutual hobby, and she had a lot of the qualities I wanted in a girlfriend and eventually a wife. I saw our relationship as the capstone on my self-improvement efforts and I thought it had a lot of potential. When everything fell apart so quickly, I was devastated. The rejection brought a lot of painful feelings that I had under control back to the surface. My confidence took a huge hit. I felt like an idiot for not knowing how to make the relationship work, and was embarrassed because all our friends knew what happened. Naturally, I tried to figure out what happened and get her back.

I realize now that I was idolizing her because she was filling a void in my life, and I ignored the   that I saw along the way as a result. 

   

[cosmonaut]

That's an outstanding realization, Bensons.  I can see now why this was such an emotional experience for you, and why it has been so painful.  I'm sorry you had to go through this, and that things didn't work out with this woman.

I want you to know that this isn't your fault.  No matter if she is BPD or not, you didn't drive her away.  It's not you.  It's not something that you did, and it's certainly not because you are a bad guy.  Sometimes relationships don't work out, and sometimes there are complications we could have never envisioned.  And please don't feel badly about not seeing all the red flags.  Everyone here did the same thing.  I don't see that in a negative way at all.  Sometimes we fall for people who are troubled or have a lot of baggage.  We are human and so are they.  You saw the best in this young woman, and there's no shame in that.

I'm very sorry that your relationships didn't work out this time, but this won't always be the case.  You have a big heart - don't be afraid to show it.  You'll make a terrific boyfriend to some other woman soon enough.  Keep your chin up, Bensons.  You've really dug deep and made some very important realizations about this relationship.  And those will pay dividends in your future relationships!   

[Bensonshays]

So this thing about the parents was a test. Some insecurity on her part. She really wanted you to address that.  Same with the sex comment, she was starting to think that the sex got going too soon.

But look at the way she set up the test about meeting my parents. She made it sound like the most reasonable answer--"yes, let's date a few months before involving our parents"--was the one she wanted to hear, only to turn around and complain that I agreed with her. Would you have honestly known what she was doing in this situation, and how would you have addressed her insecurity?

The first time she made the comment about seeing her without having sex, I stopped escalating, looked her in the eye and said, "of course." Then I kissed her once and waited for her to reciprocate it. We carried on once I knew she had the confirmation she needed. But she did this at least three times and I gave more or less the same answer each time. It was never enough to assuage her concerns.  

If you are bombarded with this type of thing in the future, how would you read it?  Respond to it?

I think I'd handle it the same way I did with her. But if I see this with the same intensity and frequency in the future, I'll probably end the relationship.

How bad was the insecurity?

It was terrible, constant. She was insecure about her body and my commitment to her. She'd bait me in to admitting that I missed her and that I liked something about her appearance. I realize all women want this kind of validation, and I was happy to give it when I knew that she needed it. But she needed it nearly every day. She would even bring up things she thought I wouldn't like and ask me not to judge her for them. Of course I hadn't even thought about them.

The first question is not unusual. "You can't meet my kids for 6 months" is awkward, but not unusual. A good response is, "being part of the family is an important part of good relationship - I want it all to be comfortable for you - no pressure".

Now go back and compare your hypothetical to what she actually said to me. If she and I were in your example, she would have said, "You're not supposed to say you don't want to meet my kids!"

My point, is that there are lots of courting rituals and reads in the first 30-60 days that matter.

And they were all rushed and badly distorted in this case. She wanted to meet my parents, who live six hours away, the third week in our relationship? Really? Even the other women I told about her said that was crazy.

[Mutt]

The thread has reached it's post limit and is locked. You are welcome with starting a new or similar topic of discussion. Thanks.