Going to break nc. Weak

[Beach_Babe]

I cant do this anymore. I need closure, I am in so much pain. I need to reach out. I need to know it was real, at some point I meant something. Please god is he even human? How could I be forgotten about? 14 years and its like it never happened. Why is it fair I have to suffer and he moves on like nothing? Im nothing.

[still_in_shock]

I too broke the NC after over 4 months. Yesterday I was an emotionally rough day for me so I texted him the copies of his messages to another girl where he as trashing me to her at initial conversation. In addition to the pictures of their chat I said he was a godless person.

He ignored. I can't understand how otherwise impulsive BPDs can be so self controlled when it comes to NC.

[DreamerGirl]

Beach_Babe, as hard as this is, I understand you need closure, but to reach out and then be ignored is going to hurt you more.

Please Keep reaching out to us, do not give him any power over you, you are worth so much more.  This hurts, but with support and time you will come out he other side so much stronger.

[Infared]

I found, through painful experience, to have the expectation that someone who had been the most important person to me, but had changed into someone who treated me abusively (painted black), that they would somehow start to treat me the way they used to, simply because of my desperate need was a huge mistake.  Yes, I was in a ton of pain because of their words and actions, so why did I keep thinking that they would respond in a kind and loving manner if I made contact. They didn't.  

I had to sort out what I had been through on my own, or at least with the support of a T and support group. The source of my pain was not going to heal me. Contacting her was like sticking my hand back in the fire that had just burned me... .that choice just made my pain worse. I had to look inside and find my own answers... .

Most difficult time in my life, but I found that if I reached out, there was a lot of support, all around me.  

[valet]

Beach Babe, maybe you can write what you want to say to him here instead?

[DyingLove]

Beach_Babe.  Your running a race, you started off sprinting, you expended a bit too much energy in the beginning. Commendably, you stayed in the race and are/were determined to finish.  You became increasingly tired and depleted. Sweat dripping from your brow, your stride becoming slower and less accurate. The thought of stopping and calling it quits comes to mind, but the people on the sidelines cheer you on!  Go Go Go Go Go!  You get a burst of adrenaline, your head rises, your stride quickens and your smile returns.  Yet again, down the road you become drained of your energies, your body temperature rises and you feel collapse coming on.  Once again you are cheered on and this time, rows of people bearing water come to your rescue, you consume cup after cup and once again continue.

Finally you find yourself nearly out of the race on a slight incline, you can't see over the hump, but you are less than 500 feet from the finish line. You want to quit and hit the ground so badly, but the finish line is just barely out of site.  Once again we cheer you on: GO GO GO GO GO.  You are going to make it BB, you are nearly at that point where the sun shines brighter and life looks and smells good.  Consider this, right now, a giant bottle of poland springs water to quench that tremendous thirst of yours!  You are almost there, you are going to make it.  We've got proof, we are all cheering you on!   

[Fr4nz]

Beach_Babe, as hard as this is, I understand you need closure, but to reach out and then be ignored is going to hurt you more.

Please Keep reaching out to us, do not give him any power over you, you are worth so much more.  This hurts, but with support and time you will come out he other side so much stronger.

DreamerGirl is right: reach out here Beach_Babe!  

From a probabilistic point of view, it is very probable that he will ignore you... .and therefore, you will be very very hurt.

It is very clear it is too soon to break NC at this point, you're still emotionally very attached. You still need time to break NC, possibly A LOT. You need to let some time pass.

Don't break NC and tell us what you would say him

[Trog]

If they are choosing to ignore you think what the likelihood is that you are going to write to them and they will respond favourably? I've done it, many times, and each and every time regret it and set my healing back further. It's a moment of weakness only and you will not get the compassion you are looking for, they won't own their shiv, they have to tell themselves a fanciful tale of blame to keep the ego intact. This is a shame based mental illness, you will trigger more shame and they will act in way that hurt you, either with silence or with painful comments.

I flip flop with the worst of them but I do know my relationship was a mistake and I am most annoyed that I ignored all the growing signs to put myself in such a weak/poor position and caused myself so much pain by choosing to trust a person who showed me she could not be trusted with a very important issue.

Here's something you can do. Just change your thinking slightly. Jus change the focus onto you, and ask questions of yourself and how you were in the relationship (not how u were treated but how u allowed yourself to be treated) avoid the victim statements and just really from a pro-active stance put yourself in the centre of the circle, the pain eases and the thought of contacting them goes from being a good idea to a terrible idea!

[Heldfast]

I too have tried that reaching out for closure. No response, unsurprisingly. However, it helped me remember how cruel this person really is, and that I am not. You are a good, kind, caring, loving person. Those are strengths, not weaknesses. Your ex is undeserving of your sympathies, but you are not. So go ahead and hurt, and tell yourself that their actions are the closure. The reason they are not responding to you is because they are a damaged person, incapable of intimacy. Do not look for their words. His every action says, "I cannot handle love, I cannot handle trust, I cannot handle the responsibility of caring meaningfully and truthfully for you (and really for anyone else)." That's the closure conversation you want, expressed more truthfully than they'll ever express through dialogue. He's saying it, they're all saying it to us in their silence. They're all saying it when they run.

[Trog]

I too have tried that reaching out for closure. No response, unsurprisingly. However, it helped me remember how cruel this person really is, and that I am not. You are a good, kind, caring, loving person. Those are strengths, not weaknesses. Your ex is undeserving of your sympathies, but you are not. So go ahead and hurt, and tell yourself that their actions are the closure. The reason they are not responding to you is because they are a damaged person, incapable of intimacy. Do not look for their words. His every action says, "I cannot handle love, I cannot handle trust, I cannot handle the responsibility of caring meaningfully and truthfully for you (and really for anyone else)." That's the closure conversation you want, expressed more truthfully than they'll ever express through dialogue. He's saying it, they're all saying it to us in their silence. They're all saying it when they run.

Cruelty is the right word. I broke down one morning some months ago and called my ex, she was utterly unmoved by my sentiments, despite having asked to try at our marriage not weeks before. That breakdown on my part was like pumping energy directly into her body and seemed to give her great validation. I know, had she, or anyone, approached me with such an open heart who was clearly upset, even if I didn't feel the same way I would have been sympathetic, instead she just gleaned some kind of sick pleasure from it and then went no contact herself.

Even before this, I knew better. In our relationship she would respond to my pain with cruelty, kicking me when I was down when my mothers health was in question, twisting the knife when she caused me tears when anyone else would be pulling back. Cruelty is the word.

[dagwoodbowser]

BB... .you're doing so well. Hang in there... .this pang will pass. Most of the outcomes have already been mentioned and I am in agreement. Personally, I experienced one of the following whenever I reached out. None of them were helpfull and the last one took me back into a miserable recycle where I was used then discarded.

1. No response or a response after a very long period when you're no longer wanting to have said discussion

2. An angry response of blame towards you. This will make you question yourself

3. Will respond telling you everything you want to hear, ask for an opportunity to meet, tell you more of what you want to hear at meeting, possibly seduce you, use you and then discard you.

[DyingLove]

Does anyone think we can do a class action suite for punitive damages from the BPD's?  While we may not get closure, we'll  certainly hit them where everyone is sensitive!  In the pocketbook!   Dream on DL, dream on!  :-)

[leftconfused]

BB.  Please stay strong.  You will NOT get the response you want if you even get a response at all.  I recently broke NC when he contacted me about his mom being in the hospital.  I think I might have mentioned this to you in a previous post and at the time it was fine.  Kept communication about his mom only and didn't think he was looking for an opportunity to see me as he would leave before I got to the hospital.  Well, I was wrong.  He text me Friday night asking what I was doing and I ignored because I was out with friends.  Then Sunday he actually called me for the first time in months and was talking sweet and wanted to come over.  I went for it because I am a SUCKER when it comes to sex with him.  So, we ended up doing it and I sent him home and I woke up Monday with the worst anxiety and ended up having a complete meltdown and off work and in bed for TWO days!  NOT GOOD.  He is back to being nasty to me again too because he felt like I kicked him out.  We can never say or do the right things. 

Also, previously in my attempts to reach out for closure like you are doing now, as soon as I hit the send button my heart would start beating out of my chest waiting for the response.  It is the worst feeling in the world.  Please don't do it.  Even now when I see his name come up on my phone my heart sinks and my stomach drops not knowing what in the world he is going to say to me now.  I know I need to block but haven't found the courage to do so yet.

When will our hearts catch up to our minds?  I don't know.  What I do know for sure though is we will never ever get what we need from these ill peoople and we need to move on!  BIG hugs and stay strong for your own good!   

[Olivia_D]

Beach, IMO contact is like picking at a healing wound; it just makes the bleeding start again and you have to heal from the new damage.  I completely understand the desire for closure, however, closure is something that happens in "healthy" relationships.  In my experience, when my healthy relationships in the past have ended it did not involve this odd level of "gamesmanship" or power games or disappearing acts or tantrums or attempts to tear me down or blaming or anything along those lines.  When healthy relationships end, you agree to disagree or agree that for whatever reason the relationship is not working; and, yes, you are sad and grieve the loss of the relationship.  However, it seems that when a relationship ends with a personality disordered person it is more akin to a trauma response coupled with a complete lack of closure.  The lack of closure is the final power play or control mechanism as it seems that they gain some satisfaction in knowing that you are still somehow connected to them, either in a positive or negative way.  They thrive on the fact that they rejected you or abandoned you and they have controlled the ending.  They need to have that final say and keep it at that level because they cannot tolerate any thought that you may have rejected or abandoned them.  If they think in black and white terms, they will construe your contact as a desire to rekindle the relationship as that would likely be the only reason why they could have contact with you.  They view it through their frame of reference.  If they were capable of a healthy ending or closure, it would have happened, but that would require a certain measure of emotional maturity.  If you contact him, he will likely have to keep the dynamic of he rejected or abandoned you alive so his response to your contact will likely only result in further hurt and confusion to you.  Sometimes silence is the best answer.  Hang in there as I know the void and emotional pain that stems from this type of loss.

[leftconfused]

They thrive on the fact that they rejected you or abandoned you and they have controlled the ending.  They need to have that final say and keep it at that level because they cannot tolerate any thought that you may have rejected or abandoned them.  If they think in black and white terms, they will construe your contact as a desire to rekindle the relationship as that would likely be the only reason why they could have contact with you.  They view it through their frame of reference.  If they were capable of a healthy ending or closure, it would have happened, but that would require a certain measure of emotional maturity.  If you contact him, he will likely have to keep the dynamic of he rejected or abandoned you alive so his response to your contact will likely only result in further hurt and confusion to you.  Sometimes silence is the best answer.  Hang in there as I know the void and emotional pain that stems from this type of loss.

I totally agree Olivia. That has been my experience with my exbf as well.  Even though the last time he left I kicked him out in November he still continues to say "he left me"  When I point out that no, I kicked you out, he will say well I always had one foot out the door anyway.  So bizarre.  Yes they need to control everything.  It is so sad really.

[Beach_Babe]

I can't understand how otherwise impulsive BPDs can be so self controlled when it comes to NC.

Yeah, ain't that something?    Thats awful he tried to pick up new supply with your conversations. How did you find out exactly?

Beach_Babe, as hard as this is, I understand you need closure, but to reach out and then be ignored is going to hurt you more.

I agree. Was that also your experience?

Infared: I totally agree, and am so grateful for this board. Your ex WOW, I thought I had it bad. Holy ghost, what she does is crazy. Im so sorry.  . Has that happened again recently?

valet: posting here might be a better idea, yes. Maybe im still too attached to even attempt it. How did coffee go?


Fr4nz: How do I have an advantage being detached? You mean not caring how or if he responds? What if I never get to that point? Will this eventually just heal then on its own? Im envious how easy it is for them to stop caring.

If they are choosing to ignore you think what the likelihood is that you are going to write to them and they will respond favourably? I've done it, many times, and each and every time regret it and set my healing back further. It's a moment of weakness only and you will not get the compassion you are looking for, they won't own their shiv, they have to tell themselves a fanciful tale of blame to keep the ego intact.

This has pretty much been the case before, and what I am afraid of. 1) no answer 2) a cruel response or 3) his speciality a cruel response via a 3rd party. Given I am  blocked almost everywhere due to the narcissistic injury I inflicted (ie: talking/hanging out with gay mutual "friend) and past patterns the best I probably could hope for is a short response on email. IF he has hit bottom or is feeling particularly charitable. The past  few recycles involved me being allowed sporadic contact on email and then "earning" my way back up the ladder (i.e: texts, phone, skype, visits) Phone calls were viewed as a rarified treat (unless he was calling to scream and let me have it) and I needed permission. He almost never answered towards the end unless he wanted to be mean. He considered it being "kind" simply to unblock the phone if I called and let it ring (without him answering) or calling back. So I probably would not bother with a phone call, he lives in ny so I probably wont see him again. And hes not going to recycle now that he has fresh supply coming from that new job. Sad but true, all I was realistically hoping for was a kind email acknowleging he had hurt me too and that it wasnt intentional. I wanted to know he did care about me at one time, and it was real. Also that he will miss me too, that I wasnt just a toxin or cancer in his life... .even if we cant be friends or together. I guess thats asking for too much, dunno.

[ReclaimingMyLife]

The source of my pain was not going to heal me. Contacting her was like sticking my hand back in the fire that had just burned me... .that choice just made my pain worse.

BB, so sorry for the struggle.  This is such freaking hard stuff!  Sometimes I feel like I need to bite my hand off to keep from picking up the phone.  But it is so worth the struggle.  I (we/YOU) am so worth the struggle.  I think Infrared nailed it. Would we really run back into the burning building?  It is bad enough it caught us off-guard and caught on fire.  But choosing to run back into it is a totally different story. 



Regarding closure, rest assured that you can get closure WITHOUT his participation and help.  We are equipped to give that to ourselves, thank heavens.  Think of all the people who have lost loved ones suddenly to death.  Getting closure from the deceased is NOT an option.  So those left behind must provide it for themselves.  This is good news because it means that we, as humans, are totally capable of giving closure to ourselves.  YOU CAN GIVE YOURSELF WHAT YOU NEED!  YOU CAN DO THIS! 

[Beach_Babe]

Heldfast: actions do speak louder than words, this is very true. I guess I just did not want to believe it. This guy was such a constant in my life, never did I dream id be discarded.


dagwood: I think you are onto something here. The mutual friend said my ex was smiling the last time we were all on the phone together (forced speakercall from mutual if you all remember) and I was crying and pleading for him to talk later with me. After we hung up mf said ex started watching and laughing at funny videos on you tube. I dont know if this was true or not but it deeply hurts to know someone I loved got pleasure out of my pain.


leftconfused: oh no, im sorry that happened to you. Do you think he was looking to recycle? What in your gut stopped you? Mine had severe control issues too. I never understood how it ended this way (i.e: threats of police, being thought of as a cancer, burden and/or stalker) when I made it very clear I never wanted to be where I was not wanted. After he bailed on our trip plans a second time in November(and everytime afterward) I offered to go. But each time pull me back in after I said that, and blame e for the misunderstanding. Hed say he loved and wanted to see me and the honeymoon phase (and trip planning) started again... .until one day he finally decided to discard me (blaming it on my abusive behavior and dealings with mutual friend). Its like you said, I think he just wanted to be the one that ended it. And here I thought it was because je actually cared back.  

The lack of closure is the final power play or control mechanism as it seems that they gain some satisfaction in knowing that you are still somehow connected to them, either in a positive or negative way.  

Why someone want this who does not want to be connected to you?

DyingLove: I never thought of it that way. Slow and steady wins the race I hope.

Reclaimimg: I try to pretend he is dead, perverse as it sounds. Instances they are alive and well, however, are still hard. How are you doing today?

[ReclaimingMyLife]

After we hung up mf said ex started watching and laughing at funny videos on you tube. I dont know if this was true or not but it deeply hurts to know someone I loved got pleasure out of my pain.

Just got a chuckle, BB.  When I read "mf" above, I automatically thought motherf'r.  But then I realized you meant "mutual friend."  I think my original interpretation wasn't far off the mark... .both for your ex and the alleged "friend!"

[Olivia_D]

It sounds sadistic.  Sadists live to humiliate and inflict pain to watch someone’s misery.  It is a form of anger.  As I understand it, they have a tremendous amount of anger – be it internal or external – and they need to channel it or project it out on someone or something.  With their black and white approach, they have control over you as long as “you” are somehow connected to them.  They want you to either “love” them or “hate” them as these feelings empower them to toy with you and pull your strings as-if you are puppet.  They like the puppet show.  This is especially true if they are in the honeymoon phase with someone else.  This new person is “heaven” and you are “hell.”  They have to have both heaven and hell present at the same time because they live in a world of triangles.  The triangle involves (a) Victim; (b) a Persecutor; and (c) a Rescuer.  The personality disordered person will typically stay or manipulate situations so they always remain in the “Victim” role.  This means that they must also have a “Persecutor” (“Hell”) and a “Rescuer” (Heaven).  The new person that is “temporarily” providing them with the idealized love is the “Rescuer.”  The new love interest / Rescuer is likely being fed stories of how he had a psycho ex-SO in his past and he is likely getting the you poor baby attention.  So, you as the ex-SO have to be painted as this awful / psycho / stalker / nutcase from his past in order for you to be the Persecutor.  Making further contact with him only provides him with fuel to keep you in the role of the Persecutor.  What they can’t stand is “indifference” meaning that you neither love them or hate them as this means that you aren’t willing to play the Persecutor role.  When you ignore them and do not respond to the mental mind games or let them know that it gets to you at all, they eventually have to find another person to cast into the role of the Persecutor by painting someone else black.  Or, this is when they start the simultaneous you are “heaven” and “hell” with the new person.  One way or another, someone other than the disordered person has to play the role of the Persecutor as they cannot internally deal with their anger and they have to have a target.

This is just my understanding. 

[leftconfused]

leftconfused: oh no, im sorry that happened to you. Do you think he was looking to recycle? What in your gut stopped you? Mine had severe control issues too. I never understood how it ended this way (i.e: threats of police, being thought of as a cancer, burden and/or stalker) when I made it very clear I never wanted to be where I was not wanted. After he bailed on our trip plans a second time in November(and everytime afterward) I offered to go. But each time pull me back in after I said that, and blame e for the misunderstanding. Hed say he loved and wanted to see me and the honeymoon phase (and trip planning) started again... .until one day he finally decided to discard me (blaming it on my abusive behavior and dealings with mutual friend). Its like you said, I think he just wanted to be the one that ended it. And here I thought it was because je actually cared back.  

BB - I am not sure if he was looking to recycle or not.  He obviously can't let me go even though he claims he did.  Actions never match words.  I feel like I got the most closure I am going to get out of him.  He said that I am a good person with amazing qualities, we just aren't meant to be together because we always argued.  It was ALWAYS him starting arguments and me just trying to ignore but eventually get sucked into defending myself.  I can't put my finger on what stopped me, because he was planning to spend the night.  It was just like after we were done I looked at him laying in my bed and I just got a sick feeling.  Just that negative energy he exudes I guess and I wanted him out.  I will tell you I point blank asked him after if he cared about me at all and he said of course I care about you.  So, I think yours probably does too just can't express it.  Just tell yourself you are a good person and he is not well.  He cared about you as much as the disorder will allow an emotionally immature person to do.  The push/pull dynamic is so very hard to process.  One minute youre great and the next threatening to call police on you.  Mine did the same thing to me.  I hope you are feeling stronger about staying NC.

[Infared]

I too have tried that reaching out for closure. No response, unsurprisingly. However, it helped me remember how cruel this person really is, and that I am not. You are a good, kind, caring, loving person. Those are strengths, not weaknesses. Your ex is undeserving of your sympathies, but you are not. So go ahead and hurt, and tell yourself that their actions are the closure. The reason they are not responding to you is because they are a damaged person, incapable of intimacy. Do not look for their words. His every action says, "I cannot handle love, I cannot handle trust, I cannot handle the responsibility of caring meaningfully and truthfully for you (and really for anyone else)." That's the closure conversation you want, expressed more truthfully than they'll ever express through dialogue. He's saying it, they're all saying it to us in their silence. They're all saying it when they run.

Cruelty is the right word. I broke down one morning some months ago and called my ex, she was utterly unmoved by my sentiments, despite having asked to try at our marriage not weeks before. That breakdown on my part was like pumping energy directly into her body and seemed to give her great validation. I know, had she, or anyone, approached me with such an open heart who was clearly upset, even if I didn't feel the same way I would have been sympathetic, instead she just gleaned some kind of sick pleasure from it and then went no contact herself.

Even before this, I knew better. In our relationship she would respond to my pain with cruelty, kicking me when I was down when my mothers health was in question, twisting the knife when she caused me tears when anyone else would be pulling back. Cruelty is the word.

Yes Trog... .this is what I encountered. My exBPD "GOT OFF" on my pain... .just like you said... .like it fueled her or something. REAL sick stuff. I witness GLEE there, too.

Talking about this stuff and comparing notes with others makes me see how sick this disorder is.  I actually thought I could have been imagining her behavior sometimes it was so sick... .

Nice to have it confirmed after the fact.

I have broken it off with people in the past... .and when we interacted, I had compassion and empathy, especially if I thought they had been hurt deeply.

[Beach_Babe]

Do you think mine really enjoyed hurting me?

[Infared]

Do you think mine really enjoyed hurting me?

I can only tell you what I experienced.  That horrible behavior of hers helped turn things around for me and made ME stronger. I loved that woman to death... .and the tables are completely turned. She did all this maneuvering outside the supermarket to "accidentally" run into me, and I just turned my head away and walked right around her.  I did not take any joy in it though, I hurt inside, but I can't have any respect for myself or love me if I even talk to someone who treated me the way she did. Period.

You can be strong and love you. That's what I learned.

[sbr1050]

BB, don't contact him.  My 62 uBPDexbf left in December. Stormed out after calling me names and telling me he was afraid of me. What  I didn't know was that he had a 23 year old ready, willing and able.  He walked out of here and right into the new r/s. 

He and I had been in the process of trying to have a baby together.  And, at the same time, his 29 daughter, who I helped raise since she was 10, had her first baby in March.  After the baby was born, I texted him to congratulate him on becoming a first time grandfather.re   It was torture sending that text, as all I could think about were the plans we (or more accurately, I) had for a baby.  But I sent it.  I said Congratulations.  I was very happy for him on becoming a grandfather. I said how glad I was that she is sharing picture of the baby on FB.  I said it was still hard for me because of all the things I had wanted with him.  I told him I knew he had moved on.  I said I was trying to move on also.  I told him I would not bug him but I just wanted to say how happy I was for him.

Response:  "Thank you.  I am happy and have moved on. I hope you find happiness too."

18 years together.  I raised his kids.  We shared a life together.  He put me thru hell when I tried to split with him two years earlier - wouldn't let me leave.  Were trying to have a baby together.  And then he stormed out and never looked back.  After 18-freaking years!  And clearly has no feelings for me left AT ALL.

Don't contact him.  It's not worth the pain.

[myself]

I agree with Infared, it comes down to self respect. The more you have of that, the more self esteem, and the more of that the more you'll make your own closure and not seek it from someone who left you hanging in this situation in the first place. (It's not 'weakness', that's self defeating, especially while you're healing/moving on, but needs to be about focus. Letting go, feeling your feelings, doing your best in the here and now without looking back too much. Deep breaths, rest, keep busy, etc.)

[still_in_shock]

So, as I said. I did contact mine yesterday after 4 months NC. And that's because I felt very sad and lonely to go to that 2 year medical check up by myself, whereas everyone else at that cancer center were supported by their spouses. Here is a detailed post sharing what happened and triggered to break the NC: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=271907.msg12617960#msg12617960

I felt so betrayed because he vowed on 3 pages of text to take care of me in better or worse through thick and thin, and have left me in my most vulnerable state.  

My text included 2 snapshots of his texts to some 21 y.o. girl where he is calling me mentally ill as the reason he was divorcing me and how happy he was I did not get pregnant. So those two snapshots and one line saying "you are  godless person". Later today I received an email from him where he says "to immediately stop harassing, stalking and attacking him, and hacking on his phone" and to also "leave him alone".

I am sure he blind copied his mom, lawyers and who not to prove how structured and orderly he was, and how mentally disturbed I am harassing him.