struggling with final devaluation discussion

[dobie]

I'm going to discuss this with my T tommorow

But what I've been struggling with last few weeks via ruminations and my own obvious low self esteem  is what was said  during the final discard .

I've grown up out of you

I'm sick of carrying you (the only way she did was due to finances as we agreed for me to work part time)

I don't respect you I used to hang on your every word now I don't

I want more out of life and a partner

I don't need a man to run around after me cooking me dinner and making me coffee for breakfast

I want more romance

All my friends bfs got expensive engagement rings for there gfs you made us buy mine together tbh I did half arse the engament I panicked as it was valentines day and I forgot to get her something this was four years ago I made up for a 100 ways since

You don't smile when you pick me up from work though lately you have been better

All you like doing is going for meals (not true but lately sure )

I'm sick of coming up with ideas (true)

I want someone with friends and a social life (I had both till I met her)

We are just friends and I've got friends now so I don't need you

I've not loved you for at least a year I love you but I'm not in love with you (mixed signals all year )

I've purposefully distanced myself from your family for over a year (true )

You deserve a sex life when a woman's not happy sex is the first thing to go well that must have been from the day she moved in !

All I can say in defense  is I was happy just being with her and sharing her company , I didn't feel after six years I had to come up with new ideas every week

Plus I was burnt out with work , my dad , her and all the other stuff .

She offered me no emotional support no sex nothing the only thing she did was pay more for things she wanted to do . complain  , moan and act the victim throw temper tantrums , pick fights and devalue our life together . sulk in her room and expect me to fix all her problems .

I wanted her to make her own friends and enjoy her own hobbies I was happy to go along with her ideas but I'm was equally happy to just kick back to have a coffee , catch a movie , have a nice meal . pursue my own interests

I guess I wanted her to find herself and not rely on me for everything

The thing that stings is all of these things have an element of truth I just don't know I'm not perfect I did the best I could but I was and am burnt out .

I suppose I could flip it

I don't find you interesting you have no passions interests or hobbies you pick things up and transiently engage for five minutes

Its not my job to make friends for you ... .maybe look at why you don't have friends and the ones you do suck

You stopped making an effort with out sex life as soon as my x gf was out the picture yet I stayed loyal and supportive so resentment cuts both ways my dear

You did nothing for me not even a sandwhich when I got in from a long days work

You always took more than you gave

You were rude and alienated my family

You were rude and alienated a lot of my friends

You always set me up to fail

You said one thing then flipped it round and used it to castigate me

You had no time for me or any of my problems

You cared more about my our iPad than me

You decieved me for a year

You critiisied me for the smallest things

You accused me of the most ridiculous things

[MincedGarlic]

Hi Dobie,

Your post touched me, I heard similar things during my r/s, the first one that really got me was when we moved in together (as if she knew she had me then) and she hit a bad patch, it only took until the second night. We were laying in bed after some silent treatment from her and I was trying to get to sleep and she said, I will leave if I'm not happy (now I see implying that it was somehow my responsibility to make and keep her happy).

I understand how difficult it is to let these things go. As this is still happening for me I have to remind myself that she is ill. That she is incapable of empathy no matter how high functioning she is. That we deserve so much better. We are not responsible for their feelings.

I often wonder how long the r/s would have lasted if as you say it was flipped and we were the ones to say these things to them.

[dobie]

Hi Dobie,

Your post touched me, I heard similar things during my r/s, the first one that really got me was when we moved in together (as if she knew she had me then) and she hit a bad patch, it only took until the second night. We were laying in bed after some silent treatment from her and I was trying to get to sleep and she said, I will leave if I'm not happy (now I see implying that it was somehow my responsibility to make and keep her happy).

I understand how difficult it is to let these things go. As this is still happening for me I have to remind myself that she is ill. That she is incapable of empathy no matter how high functioning she is. That we deserve so much better. We are not responsible for their feelings.

I often wonder how long the r/s would have lasted if as you say it was flipped and we were the ones to say these things to them.

Minced garlic I feel for you bro , its like they take advantage of our insecurities and our goodness

I think in my xs case a lot longer she enjoys being treated like poo it allows her to play the victim plus it resonates with her dysfunctional idea of how a "man" should behave

Writing that out just showed me once again how everything is about her the whole r/s she was never as bad as the last year or so but by then the idealisation had waned

She would repeatedly say "why am I not happy" like it was my job 24/7 to make sure she was /is

Best lesson I learned for from all this

Never date someone who ... .

Is not happy before you met them

Always has a reason why she is a victim of life , bfs , family, friends  but never takes responsibility

Don't care how attractive or how amazing they think you are I will never touch someone with those issues again .

[Infern0]

Do you want some harsh truth?

Even though her behaviour and actions might not have helped,  there was some truth in what she was saying.

Were you being true to yourself? Did you lose yourself in the relationship?  :)id you start to define your existence through her?

Can anyone really "devalue" another?  If ones self value is high, the answer is no.

The fact that you are on this site and in so much pain points to the fact that you are unhappy with yourself. You have low self esteem. Your relationship ending was the right thing for both of you as you had become dependent on it.  That's not healthy.

There's massive lessons to be learned here Dobie, but you have to turn the mirror on yourself, not her. If you learn the lessons they will stand you in good stead for the rest of your life. Or you can still be on this board in a years time, still broken.  It's your choice.

I did it,  I faced down the harsh reality of how I'd failed myself. Once I did,  the pain,  anger and bitterness left me.

I could coddle you,  but no amount of coddling made me feel any better.

You are a man,  you deserve more from yourself than you are giving.

Do better.

[Infared]

I really really struggled wit the words and treatment I received once my ex secured new supply and then devalued me, painted me black and rewrote all history of our relationship through the veil of her new mirroring with shiny white knight who she replace me with.

I will not repeat the things she said as that will just give them more life. I believe that I did love her and was also unhealthily co-dependently attached to her as well.  When someone is constantly in your court and "loving" you and then abruptly changes into someone who is damning you... .it is extremely painful as my opinion of what they have to say carried SO MUCH weight to how I felt about myself.  I now clearly recognize that this person was not healthy... .and I am not healthy and going to suffer if I take on their abusive epithets as fact. Quite honestly if I look at the situation clearly... .my ex was nothing but my vapor. She has no personality or "person" of her own. She needed to be connected to me to have any peace or comfort, then she (in an instant), immediately attached to another, discarded me and started her smear campaign. She became "them" in five minutes and I no longer recognized the woman that I lived with for 5 years. She was someone else, (them).  Any way I sort that out, it hurt intensely.

Like you I got a therapist (great place to take this), and started to sort this out. When I saw my part in things, I was able to love myself enough to forgive me and I was also able to see how sick my ex was/is and then the things she said/says just started to stop carrying any weight... .

Abusing me and taking actions to hurt me were/are done to make her feel better/powerful in some way? She has nothing of her own inside and has to get everything from attaching to, or abusing someone else. There is no true sense of self there, no balance. Her epithets are just her black vapor... .I take a deep breath, pause, and blow them all away. Ahhhhhhhhh.

[dobie]

Do you want some harsh truth?

Even though her behaviour and actions might not have helped,  there was some truth in what she was saying.

Were you being true to yourself? Did you lose yourself in the relationship?  :)id you start to define your existence through her?

Can anyone really "devalue" another?  If ones self value is high, the answer is no.

The fact that you are on this site and in so much pain points to the fact that you are unhappy with yourself. You have low self esteem. Your relationship ending was the right thing for both of you as you had become dependent on it.  That's not healthy.

There's massive lessons to be learned here Dobie, but you have to turn the mirror on yourself, not her. If you learn the lessons they will stand you in good stead for the rest of your life. Or you can still be on this board in a years time, still broken.  It's your choice.

I did it,  I faced down the harsh reality of how I'd failed myself. Once I did,  the pain,  anger and bitterness left me.

I could coddle you,  but no amount of coddling made me feel any better.

You are a man,  you deserve more from yourself than you are giving.

Do better.

True all very true its what I'm working on in therapy I lost myself with her  

I think I was focussed on us and her I forgot me by me forgetting me as there was no her there was no r/s

The emehsment was too complete I think that's what happens when the other is so empty you fill them and fill them till u disappear

[dobie]

I really really struggled wit the words and treatment I received once my ex secured new supply and then devalued me, painted me black and rewrote all history of our relationship through the veil of her new mirroring with shiny white knight who she replace me with.

I will not repeat the things she said as that will just give them more life. I believe that I did love her and was also unhealthily co-dependently attached to her as well.  When someone is constantly in your court and "loving" you and then abruptly changes into someone who is damning you... .it is extremely painful as my opinion of what they have to say carried SO MUCH weight to how I felt about myself.  I now clearly recognize that this person was not healthy... .and I am not healthy and going to suffer if I take on their abusive epithets as fact. Quite honestly if I look at the situation clearly... .my ex was nothing but my vapor. She has no personality or "person" of her own. She needed to be connected to me to have any peace or comfort, then she (in an instant), immediately attached to another, discarded me and started her smear campaign. She became "them" in five minutes and I no longer recognized the woman that I lived with for 5 years. She was someone else, (them).  Any way I sort that out, it hurt intensely.

Like you I got a therapist (great place to take this), and started to sort this out. When I saw my part in things, I was able to love myself enough to forgive me and I was also able to see how sick my ex was/is and then the things she said/says just started to stop carrying any weight... .

Abusing me and taking actions to hurt me were/are done to make her feel better/powerful in some way? She has nothing of her own inside and has to get everything from attaching to, or abusing someone else. There is no true sense of self there, no balance. Her epithets are just her black vapor... .I take a deep breath, pause, and blow them all away. Ahhhhhhhhh.

I swear you just described my x

And me bro 

[ZeusRLX]

Don't care how attractive or how amazing they think you are I will never touch someone with those issues again .

Yeah, great idea and also something to consider is some of them are a lot less obvious. They don't play the victim card until they think they have pulled you in enough.

So if in the future someone looks normal but after you become emotionally invested reveal some of the same qualities, cut your losses and get the hell out.

My last one didn't complain as much about her mother or friends but still wanted to be rescued financially, emotionally, etc etc... .but that was revealed only AFTER she had hooked me.

She was a LOT less obvious than yours and than my first one... .and those are the ones that are more difficult to crack.

Thanks God for the obvious ones who wear BPD on their sleeve! It's the stealthy ones who can be so tricky.

[ZeusRLX]

I really really struggled wit the words and treatment I received once my ex secured new supply and then devalued me, painted me black and rewrote all history of our relationship through the veil of her new mirroring with shiny white knight who she replace me with.

I will not repeat the things she said as that will just give them more life. I believe that I did love her and was also unhealthily co-dependently attached to her as well.  When someone is constantly in your court and "loving" you and then abruptly changes into someone who is damning you... .it is extremely painful as my opinion of what they have to say carried SO MUCH weight to how I felt about myself.  I now clearly recognize that this person was not healthy... .and I am not healthy and going to suffer if I take on their abusive epithets as fact. Quite honestly if I look at the situation clearly... .my ex was nothing but my vapor. She has no personality or "person" of her own. She needed to be connected to me to have any peace or comfort, then she (in an instant), immediately attached to another, discarded me and started her smear campaign. She became "them" in five minutes and I no longer recognized the woman that I lived with for 5 years. She was someone else, (them).  Any way I sort that out, it hurt intensely.

Like you I got a therapist (great place to take this), and started to sort this out. When I saw my part in things, I was able to love myself enough to forgive me and I was also able to see how sick my ex was/is and then the things she said/says just started to stop carrying any weight... .

Abusing me and taking actions to hurt me were/are done to make her feel better/powerful in some way? She has nothing of her own inside and has to get everything from attaching to, or abusing someone else. There is no true sense of self there, no balance. Her epithets are just her black vapor... .I take a deep breath, pause, and blow them all away. Ahhhhhhhhh.

Great post... .you're so lucky she disappeared though... .

My friend went through the same thing but unfortunately he married her and had two kids with her before she abandoned him.

So now he needs to work AND raise two kids on his own. Kids are great but it's a hard life.

So in a way, she did you a favor by disappearing... .

I consider myself so lucky they disappeared. Some of them are married now and I know for a fact they are cheating on their husbands, manipulating them, etc.

Am I grateful that's not me? Absolutely!

[dobie]

Don't care how attractive or how amazing they think you are I will never touch someone with those issues again .

Yeah, great idea and also something to consider is some of them are a lot less obvious. They don't play the victim card until they think they have pulled you in enough.

So if in the future someone looks normal but after you become emotionally invested reveal some of the same qualities, cut your losses and get the hell out.

My last one didn't complain as much about her mother or friends but still wanted to be rescued financially, emotionally, etc etc... .but that was revealed only AFTER she had hooked me.

She was a LOT less obvious than yours and than my first one... .and those are the ones that are more difficult to crack.

Thanks God for the obvious ones who wear BPD on their sleeve! It's the stealthy ones who can be so tricky.

Zeus I was already making excuses for her winging and tales of victimhood from day one I was doing it right till the end. Thinking on  my even considering she may be suffering a pd is still a way of me making excuses for her behaviour/s

All I know is the facts she is emotionally stunted a femchild who takes no responsibility for how she treats people or why she is miserable

She wanted to be rescued from day one I see that now . I'm not making any more excuses for her she is well aware of right and wrong she has a concept of good and evil she choose to follow the darkness in her soul instead of the light .

She feels shame for how she treated me and rightly so she should .

The only thing I blame myself for is being a healthy red blooded male when a girl of 23 with blonde hair and a beach body thinks I'm hot stuff and worships me like a risen God

Most guys would have fallen for her I did the right thing I stayed loyal and true and supportive .

Next time I will assess a women's past and current worldview her r/s with her family esp her father I will commit to looking out for red flags and not just think with my Johnson and my ego .

[Trog]

Dobie, these are horrible cruel things to say to anyone let alone a partner. This woman, Dobie, is a b___! BPD or not, she's a grabby, cruel, childish, soulless b___. You deserve 1000 times more.

[dobie]

Dobie, these are horrible cruel things to say to anyone let alone a partner. This woman, Dobie, is a b___! BPD or not, she's a grabby, cruel, childish, soulless b___. You deserve 1000 times more.

Thanks trog I still don't know what happened she was my bf  

I guess that side of her was always there she just surpressed it I saw glimmers of it though my bad for ignoring the bad and loving the good .

I need to work on what the heck I'm still missing her and needing her validation I mean wow if my bro told me his wife said that I'd be divorce her now !

Seeing my T today need to work on my self esteem and coping strategies as bad as she was she was what I needed to help cope with life

I need to learn to cope on my own its hard its part of my therapy I'm very broken in a lot of ways due to my foo and childhood

Getting into therapy has shown how much work I have to do on me life overwhelms me I find it hard to cope on my own not been single since I was a kid .

Long term depression /ADHD /anxiety disorders /immaturity / low self esteem / lack of confidence / infantile rage issues / childhood conduct defiance disorder

[Trog]

My ex too was my bf, I too ignored huge swathes of bad behaviour because the good filled some kind of gap in me. Most of us have foo issues. It's totally fine to be up and down and up and down, seeing her clearly then wondering if it's you, getting over our exes is a process, some days and weeks I am absolutely great, even better than before I met her and other days I'm a total fricken wreck! Reading my posts you can see what a roller coaster I am on. You are coming along since I've been reading your posts you can see glimmers of he reality and you e identified that you have your own issues to have stayed, just like all of us.

Sometimes though we need to call a spade a spade, when we are romanticising or wondering what if, we need to remember, these people have treated us so badly, and go on through the world doing it to person after person, they are undeserving of us/you and your good is out there waiting for you, trust it, I guarantee it. Focusing on ourselves is the key. 

[dobie]

My ex too was my bf, I too ignored huge swathes of bad behaviour because the good filled some kind of gap in me. Most of us have foo issues. It's totally fine to be up and down and up and down, seeing her clearly then wondering if it's you, getting over our exes is a process, some days and weeks I am absolutely great, even better than before I met her and other days I'm a total fricken wreck! Reading my posts you can see what a roller coaster I am on. You are coming along since I've been reading your posts you can see glimmers of he reality and you e identified that you have your own issues to have stayed, just like all of us.

Sometimes though we need to call a spade a spade, when we are romanticising or wondering what if, we need to remember, these people have treated us so badly, and go on through the world doing it to person after person, they are undeserving of us/you and your good is out there waiting for you, trust it, I guarantee it. Focusing on ourselves is the key. 

That's the truth we are going to improve from this as we have the skills of introspection our xs likely won't and will end up behaving just the same with whomever they end up with .

Perhaps one day they will wake up and realise they are sabotaging themselves really in the end .

[ZeusRLX]

The only thing I blame myself for is being a healthy red blooded male when a girl of 23 with blonde hair and a beach body thinks I'm hot stuff and worships me like a risen God

Most guys would have fallen for her I did the right thing I stayed loyal and true and supportive .

Next time I will assess a women's past and current worldview her r/s with her family esp her father I will commit to looking out for red flags and not just think with my Johnson and my ego .

Oh, I know, trust me, I do.

They can be very VERY seductive and make you feel like no one else. But we all need to be a lot more skeptical next time around and not allow emotions and lust cloud our judgement.

Or another option is, have some fun but don't get too emotionally attached and get out before things go south in a big way.

It's only really hard the first time because you think it's real.

[Achaya]

True all very true its what I'm working on in therapy I lost myself with her  

I think I was focussed on us and her I forgot me by me forgetting me as there was no her there was no r/s

The emehsment was too complete I think that's what happens when the other is so empty you fill them and fill them till u disappear [/quote]
This is really profound, your imagery about the disappearing selves and the disappearing relationship! It is a very poetic way to describe something I have also realized. During the so-called honeymoon phase my ex was already acting out the on/off cycling, albeit in a lesser way than she did later. I used to confront her about this,when I still was in the relationship as a separate self with needs and feelings of my own. After the first couple years I stopped confronting her with my pain and anger, because she became more defensive as time went on and she would turn the confrontation around. I would end up apologizing---(most of the people on this board know this story from personal experience so I know I don't have to explain further). In the past few weeks after the final discard by her I recognized that I stopped doing the one thing that had always helped to break up the enmeshment---I stopped shrieking in pain and anger when she emotionally disengaged. So "I" was no longer there, and as you say, neither was she because she had no self to begin with.