Discussing things with pwBPD

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

Why can't they discuss things? I had a phone call with uxBPDgf who's in a psych ward a few minutes ago. She claimed certain things, I questioned her about them (calmly and not accusingly). She ended up crying. Saying I always blame her for things (but in fact she was blaming me for things). I asked her (again, calmly) to just stay in the convo and solve it with me so we don't end up hurting each other even more. She started saying things like "I bet you go arround effing lots of women" etc. Sighed deeply and told her I need a break from this. She now thinks this is all my fault.

Can you relate? Why can't they discuss or solve any problems whatsoever? They either run from problems or jump into them. There's no working together to solve anything. Sigh.

[LonelyChild]

Why can't they discuss things? I had a phone call with uxBPDgf who's in a psych ward a few minutes ago. She claimed certain things, I questioned her about them (calmly and not accusingly). She ended up crying. Saying I always blame her for things (but in fact she was blaming me for things). I asked her (again, calmly) to just stay in the convo and solve it with me so we don't end up hurting each other even more. She started saying things like "I bet you go arround effing lots of women" etc. Sighed deeply and told her I need a break from this. She now thinks this is all my fault.

Can you relate? Why can't they discuss or solve any problems whatsoever? They either run from problems or jump into them. There's no working together to solve anything. Sigh.

[FannyB]

If it's any consolation they tend to do the same thing with therapists.   Denial is the glue that holds their fractured psyches together - and they will use any tactic under the sun to deflect from addressing their real issues. It's a question of survival and what they feel comfortable with I guess. 

[Trog]

Why can't they discuss things? I had a phone call with uxBPDgf who's in a psych ward a few minutes ago. She claimed certain things, I questioned her about them (calmly and not accusingly). She ended up crying. Saying I always blame her for things (but in fact she was blaming me for things). I asked her (again, calmly) to just stay in the convo and solve it with me so we don't end up hurting each other even more. She started saying things like "I bet you go arround effing lots of women" etc. Sighed deeply and told her I need a break from this. She now thinks this is all my fault.

Can you relate? Why can't they discuss or solve any problems whatsoever? They either run from problems or jump into them. There's no working together to solve anything. Sigh.

You're going to eventually reach the conclusion that logic and BPD are not bedfellows.

She's worried you are effing people, so you are effing people, feelings=facts to BPD folk. Remember they are about 3 years old emotionally.

You are always blaming me for things = I am always blaming you for things. Projection of a 3 year old. I suppose she had a childhood trauma that leaves her stuck at this age. The fact is this, unless she engages with help and understands honestly that she is the problem, that she has problems, you are going to be hitting your head against illogical brick walls. Endlessly trying to manage her emotions while ignoring your own.

You DO need a break from this.

She in in a psych ward, as you know, my ex was too. Is this perhaps a clue to them that all may not be well? Nope! We are in seriously Egyptian river territory without a map. It will drive you crazy, if it hadn't already, and your reality and belief system will go for a burton too. It's not worth it.

Why do you expect she can take care of your feelings and be rational with you... .If she can't even look after herself? For all of us, BPD included, we gotta look after ourselves first before we can give anything to another. She can't even keep herself out of the psyche hospital. If any part of your self worth is joined up with hers,you may as well admit yourself in there. That sounds harsh, but it's experience talking here. It's like a drowning person who clings and panics onto others, you're only going to go down with them.

Great on you though for stating your needs. Do not feel bad about this, it's your duty to take care of yourself first.

[LonelyChild]

Why can't they discuss things? I had a phone call with uxBPDgf who's in a psych ward a few minutes ago. She claimed certain things, I questioned her about them (calmly and not accusingly). She ended up crying. Saying I always blame her for things (but in fact she was blaming me for things). I asked her (again, calmly) to just stay in the convo and solve it with me so we don't end up hurting each other even more. She started saying things like "I bet you go arround effing lots of women" etc. Sighed deeply and told her I need a break from this. She now thinks this is all my fault.

Can you relate? Why can't they discuss or solve any problems whatsoever? They either run from problems or jump into them. There's no working together to solve anything. Sigh.

You're going to eventually reach the conclusion that logic and BPD are not bedfellows.

She's worried you are effing people, so you are effing people, feelings=facts to BPD folk. Remember they are about 3 years old emotionally.

You are always blaming me for things = I am always blaming you for things. Projection of a 3 year old. I suppose she had a childhood trauma that leaves her stuck at this age. The fact is this, unless she engages with help and understands honestly that she is the problem, that she has problems, you are going to be hitting your head against illogical brick walls. Endlessly trying to manage her emotions while ignoring your own.

You DO need a break from this.

She in in a psych ward, as you know, my ex was too. Is this perhaps a clue to them that all may not be well? Nope! We are in seriously Egyptian river territory without a map. It will drive you crazy, if it hadn't already, and your reality and belief system will go for a burton too. It's not worth it.

Why do you expect she can take care of your feelings and be rational with you... .If she can't even look after herself? For all of us, BPD included, we gotta look after ourselves first before we can give anything to another. She can't even keep herself out of the psyche hospital. If any part of your self worth is joined up with hers,you may as well admit yourself in there. That sounds harsh, but it's experience talking here. It's like a drowning person who clings and panics onto others, you're only going to go down with them.

Great on you though for stating your needs. Do not feel bad about this, it's your duty to take care of yourself first.

Thanks Trog, your posts mean so much to me.

It's just so hard to grasp the fact that she is sick. If she wants to do something, all her aches, ailments, hallucinations etc disappear and she does what she wants like she has no problems whatsoever. If I request something from her, she has aches, ailments, hallucinations, she can't do x, I put stress on her, I'm unreasonable, I demand too much etc.

If someone is in a wheel chair and says "I'm in so much pain, can someone push me around for me in my wheel chair" and then gets up and starts running whenever he or she feels like it, you stop feeling sorry and you stop believing in them. You just go "hey, you CAN run, get the f up."

[Trog]

Why can't they discuss things? I had a phone call with uxBPDgf who's in a psych ward a few minutes ago. She claimed certain things, I questioned her about them (calmly and not accusingly). She ended up crying. Saying I always blame her for things (but in fact she was blaming me for things). I asked her (again, calmly) to just stay in the convo and solve it with me so we don't end up hurting each other even more. She started saying things like "I bet you go arround effing lots of women" etc. Sighed deeply and told her I need a break from this. She now thinks this is all my fault.

Can you relate? Why can't they discuss or solve any problems whatsoever? They either run from problems or jump into them. There's no working together to solve anything. Sigh.

You're going to eventually reach the conclusion that logic and BPD are not bedfellows.

She's worried you are effing people, so you are effing people, feelings=facts to BPD folk. Remember they are about 3 years old emotionally.

You are always blaming me for things = I am always blaming you for things. Projection of a 3 year old. I suppose she had a childhood trauma that leaves her stuck at this age. The fact is this, unless she engages with help and understands honestly that she is the problem, that she has problems, you are going to be hitting your head against illogical brick walls. Endlessly trying to manage her emotions while ignoring your own.

You DO need a break from this.

She in in a psych ward, as you know, my ex was too. Is this perhaps a clue to them that all may not be well? Nope! We are in seriously Egyptian river territory without a map. It will drive you crazy, if it hadn't already, and your reality and belief system will go for a burton too. It's not worth it.

Why do you expect she can take care of your feelings and be rational with you... .If she can't even look after herself? For all of us, BPD included, we gotta look after ourselves first before we can give anything to another. She can't even keep herself out of the psyche hospital. If any part of your self worth is joined up with hers,you may as well admit yourself in there. That sounds harsh, but it's experience talking here. It's like a drowning person who clings and panics onto others, you're only going to go down with them.

Great on you though for stating your needs. Do not feel bad about this, it's your duty to take care of yourself first.

Thanks Trog, your posts mean so much to me.

It's just so hard to grasp the fact that she is sick. If she wants to do something, all her aches, ailments, hallucinations etc disappear and she does what she wants like she has no problems whatsoever. If I request something from her, she has aches, ailments, hallucinations, she can't do x, I put stress on her, I'm unreasonable, I demand too much etc.

If someone is in a wheel chair and says "I'm in so much pain, can someone push me around for me in my wheel chair" and then gets up and starts running whenever he or she feels like it, you stop feeling sorry and you stop believing in them. You just go "hey, you CAN run, get the f up."

Hey

I remember this same behaviour and it drove me mad. She would be hallucinating and talking absolute crap, driving me mad, then the home visit would show up and she could tone it right down. It got to the point where I thought she was putting all this crap on just to hurt me!

It's part of the illness. Let's be rational with ourselves, me and you are rational (mostly), it doesn't benefit them to put this on just for us, be they feel safer to go into full blown around us. But it's like I said earlier, we expect them to "protect us" from us and not hurt us, but they can't look after themselves, there's no way they can be in a regular relationship too. That's not your fault. You need to carry on in the same way you laid out on the phone, take care of yourself, I know how hard it is to turn away from them, but they survived this long, what you end up as in this relationships is two people not taking care of themselves and enmeshed in total dysfunction.

The horrible truth is, I wasn't helping my ex, I was enabling her in her denial, I thought that was helping her because I was at times a respite and focus for her crazy, she felt better in that denial and sometimes the symptoms warned. But it's a bandaid at best. She will never love you or anyone till she takes care of herself and it's obvious, by the fact she's hospitalized, she can't.

[UserName69]

Can you relate? Why can't they discuss or solve any problems whatsoever? They either run from problems or jump into them. There's no working together to solve anything. Sigh.

I can relate to that for sure. Me and my exBPD never solved any problem we had. She never wanted to talk about it. Once I asked her whats wrong with her she told me that she hates everybody etc.

They think they're doing nothing wrong so they have no reason to fix a problem. Thats why they're always messed up.

[Infared]

LonelyChild, my expwBPD my ex did all these things... .she did not end up in a psych ward but she did go to therapy and lied-to and manipulated the therapist.  She played victim with the therapist... .and the therapist bought her ruse. I was dumbfounded. Think about feeling like you are going crazy?  My ex had her new supply to validate her so she just rewrote our history to everyone, made me the villian and told everyone (including the therapist), that she never cheated on me and that she was a victim.  EVERYONE bought it.  She would sometimes give me this evil satisfied smile as she knew "exactly" what she was doing... .she was an expert.  She enjoyed it.  So there was no consequence for her... .she had control of everyone, her parents, her therapist and new supply with all of her lies, demure victimhood, new imagined history, and manipulations.  She was an expert. A true professional.  I can't imagine her ever seeking or wanting professional help for real.  She is too successful with her sick game... .why would she change.

It's very difficult to realize the sick game that I was caught up in and to get spit it the other end. Quite brutal... .but I one point I had to make a decision to just walk away and heal.  It was a battle that I could not win... .but I could save me with absolute NC.

I do understand your pain and frustration, but you have to own that there just is no way to have rationality and reason with a BPD. It's like chasing windmills... .

[LonelyChild]

Can you relate? Why can't they discuss or solve any problems whatsoever? They either run from problems or jump into them. There's no working together to solve anything. Sigh.

I can relate to that for sure. Me and my exBPD never solved any problem we had. She never wanted to talk about it. Once I asked her whats wrong with her she told me that she hates everybody etc.

They think they're doing nothing wrong so they have no reason to fix a problem. Thats why they're always messed up.

It's just so hard to understand how even Pavlovian methods (ie, try to solve this with me, and you will SEE that you will be better off) don't even work. This is probably why they keep repeating their mistakes as well.

[UserName69]

Can you relate? Why can't they discuss or solve any problems whatsoever? They either run from problems or jump into them. There's no working together to solve anything. Sigh.

I can relate to that for sure. Me and my exBPD never solved any problem we had. She never wanted to talk about it. Once I asked her whats wrong with her she told me that she hates everybody etc.

They think they're doing nothing wrong so they have no reason to fix a problem. Thats why they're always messed up.

It's just so hard to understand how even Pavlovian methods (ie, try to solve this with me, and you will SEE that you will be better off) don't even work. This is probably why they keep repeating their mistakes as well.

This is how it always went:

1. She tells me all kind of sweet things and worships me.

2. I give her attention and we end up in bed.

3. She ignores me for a couple days.

4. We fight.

5. Break up for a couple days/weeks.

6. She starts a drama act and takes me back.

7. See step 1.

I knew that she had issues whenever I told her I want to talk about it she made some excuse. I'm so happy this bs rs ended.

[Tay25]

A pwBPD's inability to be honest and have conflict resolution is what drove me nuts during my relationship.

I have found that looking at a pwBPD as they are emotionally stuck at a young age, It is easier to understand their behaviors. My ex would frequently make me do her "dirty work" and by this I mean trying to figure out why she is upset or angry with me when everything seemed to be fine, just like a child.

Even then when we would have a talk about things she wouldn't be able to explain herself, she would just bring up things I did in the past or use whatever she can think of to blame me for her feelings. I really feel as if she knew she was the problem but could not accept it so stayed in denial and blamed me because I would take it.

I know that my next relationship will not be with someone who is incapable of expressing themselves and resolving problems as this is something I cannot stand.

[LonelyChild]

A pwBPD's inability to be honest and have conflict resolution is what drove me nuts during my relationship.

Why do we call it inability? It's a choice.

If someone is in a wheel chair and you stand them up and say "walk" they just collapse on the ground. If circumstances call for a pwBPD to be honest or actually do something, they can. It's not an inability, it's a choice made by a sick and twisted mind. Choosing to not do something most of the time does not make it an inability, does it?

[UserName69]

A pwBPD's inability to be honest and have conflict resolution is what drove me nuts during my relationship.

Why do we call it inability? It's a choice.

If someone is in a wheel chair and you stand them up and say "walk" they just collapse on the ground. If circumstances call for a pwBPD to be honest or actually do something, they can. It's not an inability, it's a choice made by a sick and twisted mind. Choosing to not do something most of the time does not make it an inability, does it?

Totally true. Yesterday I saw an article about BPD. The author said that it's possible to have a healthy rs with a pwBPD. Later he wrote that a rs with a pwBPD is a great experience because you'll always be suprised. Later he wrote a rs with a pwBPD has a lot of positive things going on.

Now my bs alarm is broken. There is nothing good in a rs with a pwBPD. There is nothing to understand, they know what they're doing but they don't want to fix themselves.

Thats like giving a pyscho serial killer a second chance.

[disillusionedandsore]

This made me howl!... .You will always be surprised alright I can testify to that,  if you like getting hit from behind and snuck up on and frightened!

[Infared]

A pwBPD's inability to be honest and have conflict resolution is what drove me nuts during my relationship.

Why do we call it inability? It's a choice.

If someone is in a wheel chair and you stand them up and say "walk" they just collapse on the ground. If circumstances call for a pwBPD to be honest or actually do something, they can. It's not an inability, it's a choice made by a sick and twisted mind. Choosing to not do something most of the time does not make it an inability, does it?

Totally true. Yesterday I saw an article about BPD. The author said that it's possible to have a healthy rs with a pwBPD. Later he wrote that a rs with a pwBPD is a great experience because you'll always be suprised. Later he wrote a rs with a pwBPD has a lot of positive things going on.

Now my bs alarm is broken. There is nothing good in a rs with a pwBPD. There is nothing to understand, they know what they're doing but they don't want to fix themselves.

Thats like giving a pyscho serial killer a second chance.

Clearly... .the "author" must still be "in" his relationship with the pwBPD. Perhaps he will rewrite the article after "THE END"? 

[Isa_lala]

I totally agree with all of you! There is no way we can discuss issues in order to find a solution... .

at the beginning of the r/s, my BPD boyfriend was able to say that HE was the one to have problems, but for a few months now, he says that he may have "weaknesses" (and not major issues) but I have my part of responsibility too.

The responsibility I accept on my side, is that I have accepted the unacceptable for too long.

I now know that there is no way we could resolve our relationship issues... .I would need his help for this and I can't expect that from him... .

Trog, you are so right when you say that for them, their feelings (biaised by the BPD) = truth. trying to resolve issues with them is like speaking 2 different languages: they speaks emotional, we speak rational... .that's discouraging

[LonelyChild]

A pwBPD's inability to be honest and have conflict resolution is what drove me nuts during my relationship.

Why do we call it inability? It's a choice.

If someone is in a wheel chair and you stand them up and say "walk" they just collapse on the ground. If circumstances call for a pwBPD to be honest or actually do something, they can. It's not an inability, it's a choice made by a sick and twisted mind. Choosing to not do something most of the time does not make it an inability, does it?

Totally true. Yesterday I saw an article about BPD. The author said that it's possible to have a healthy rs with a pwBPD. Later he wrote that a rs with a pwBPD is a great experience because you'll always be suprised. Later he wrote a rs with a pwBPD has a lot of positive things going on.

Now my bs alarm is broken. There is nothing good in a rs with a pwBPD. There is nothing to understand, they know what they're doing but they don't want to fix themselves.

Thats like giving a pyscho serial killer a second chance.

Yes, I read this now and then as well - it's possible to have a healthy r/s with a pwBPD. How? There's no reciprocity. I haven't heard of a single HAPPY and HEALTHY r/s with a pwBPD. A most fundamental requirement for a healthy r/s is problem solving skills.

[neverloveagain]

The horrible truth is, I wasn't helping my ex, I was enabling her in her denial,

wow this is so true.

[UserName69]

A pwBPD's inability to be honest and have conflict resolution is what drove me nuts during my relationship.

Why do we call it inability? It's a choice.

If someone is in a wheel chair and you stand them up and say "walk" they just collapse on the ground. If circumstances call for a pwBPD to be honest or actually do something, they can. It's not an inability, it's a choice made by a sick and twisted mind. Choosing to not do something most of the time does not make it an inability, does it?

Totally true. Yesterday I saw an article about BPD. The author said that it's possible to have a healthy rs with a pwBPD. Later he wrote that a rs with a pwBPD is a great experience because you'll always be suprised. Later he wrote a rs with a pwBPD has a lot of positive things going on.

Now my bs alarm is broken. There is nothing good in a rs with a pwBPD. There is nothing to understand, they know what they're doing but they don't want to fix themselves.

Thats like giving a pyscho serial killer a second chance.

Yes, I read this now and then as well - it's possible to have a healthy r/s with a pwBPD. How? There's no reciprocity. I haven't heard of a single HAPPY and HEALTHY r/s with a pwBPD. A most fundamental requirement for a healthy r/s is problem solving skills.

I agree. Unless you like it when someone cheats and abuses you the rs will be perfect. There is nothing to understand about a pwBPD. They'll play, manipulate and cheat on you.

You can't talk about issues with a pwBPD. Whenever I wanted to talk to my exBPD about her issues she freaked out. She always blamed me for everything, other people believed it always was my fault. I'm glad she's no part of my life anymore.

There is nothing positive in a rs with a matter pwBPD. People who say the opposite clearly don't know anything so called "experts"... .

[Tay25]

A pwBPD's inability to be honest and have conflict resolution is what drove me nuts during my relationship.

Why do we call it inability? It's a choice.

If someone is in a wheel chair and you stand them up and say "walk" they just collapse on the ground. If circumstances call for a pwBPD to be honest or actually do something, they can. It's not an inability, it's a choice made by a sick and twisted mind. Choosing to not do something most of the time does not make it an inability, does it?

I agree that honesty is certainly a choice however i feel that conflict resolution is more of a skill in which a pwBPD was never able to develop.

Admitting any fault or wrong doing by a pwBPd makes them feel an immense ammount of shame and guilt and since they experience emotions much more intensely than most of us, they cannot deal with it so as a survival tactic they project or shift the blame onto their partner.

Because of this survival instinct they are unable to develop the ability to resolve problems, its not that they choose not to or dont want to resolve issues its that they are incapable.