Have you connected your head and your heart?

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

Vortex, I have 3 kids, but they are all adults (20 and older).

I filed for divorce when they were young, but decided that it was better to stay w/ him and make the best of it, than to have the kids subjected to 50/11 different trashy women (his favorite flavor) and that whole messed up lifestyle... .

In hindsight?

I should have divorced him, and moved 1000 miles away.

He would have never made an attempt to see them (as long as I didn't ask for support)

And the kids and I would have been just fine!

Oh hindsight, you're so 20/20!

[going places]

Vortex, I have 3 kids, but they are all adults (20 and older).

I filed for divorce when they were young, but decided that it was better to stay w/ him and make the best of it, than to have the kids subjected to 50/11 different trashy women (his favorite flavor) and that whole messed up lifestyle... .

In hindsight?

I should have divorced him, and moved 1000 miles away.

He would have never made an attempt to see them (as long as I didn't ask for support)

And the kids and I would have been just fine!

Oh hindsight, you're so 20/20!

[vortex of confusion]

I filed for divorce when they were young, but decided that it was better to stay w/ him and make the best of it, than to have the kids subjected to 50/11 different trashy women (his favorite flavor) and that whole messed up lifestyle... .

How old were they when you divorced? Or have you divorced?

I am not willing to get into a custody battle with him. I am certain that his mother would stand behind him pulling strings. She is good at that. And, he is a sex addict. I would much rather the kids have him in their life the way things are now. He is working on improving. Really, I am not as concerned about him as I am myself. I feel like I can connect all of the dots whether I am with him or not. For me, I think it is better to connect all of the dots while maintaining an in tact family. That is one of my values. I am sure that a lot of people completely disagree with me and that is okay.

In hindsight?

I should have divorced him, and moved 1000 miles away.

He would have never made an attempt to see them (as long as I didn't ask for support)

And the kids and I would have been just fine!

My kids are still young. I cannot and will not make a claim like that. If I thought the kids would be better off without him, that would be one thing. I don't know if the kids would be better off with or without him. I am certain that I will be just fine no matter what happens. No matter what happens, I tend to be fine. 

[going places]

When I filed for divorce the first time the kids were 6, 5 and 3.

How old were they when you divorced?

They were 17, 19, 20 when the marriage (and I use that term loosely) facade came crumbling down.

The girls were home the night I confronted him about his adultery.

The kids still lived at home, so the following 3 years, they went thru hell with me... .it was awful.

God forgive me.

I am not willing to get into a custody battle with him. I am certain that his mother would stand behind him pulling strings. She is good at that. And, he is a sex addict. I would much rather the kids have him in their life the way things are now. He is working on improving. Really, I am not as concerned about him as I am myself. I feel like I can connect all of the dots whether I am with him or not. For me, I think it is better to connect all of the dots while maintaining an in tact family. That is one of my values. I am sure that a lot of people completely disagree with me and that is okay.

I could have written this in the middle - late 90's.

I too, chose to stay / gut it out.

I too, thought it could get better, it would work, etc.

I gave it my everything. So today, I can lay my head on my pillow at night, and sleep well, knowing "I did everything I could, +3"

And the kids saw that. And they know the TRUTH, no matter what their father or his messed up family says... .

The kids have deep sadness.

The oldest is struggling with 'stability'. Everything in her life right now is shifting sand. She was betrayed by her own father, and it hurts.

The boy has some deep anger... .not like serial killer anger, but anger and trust issues.

The baby is angry and hurt. She 'was' daddy's girl. She thought the sun set and rose in his backside... .only for him to completely toss her aside. He won't call her (hasn't but maybe twice in a year) he only texts her. Or emails.

When they have time alone, their thoughts go to "wow... .I thought my life, and my childhood was this way, but come to find out now, that was all a lie... .it was all for show... .".

We are working it out. God is Good... .and He's got us!

I, and the kids, would be lost without Him!

[disillusionedandsore]

Vortex: you are a long time on the boards and I dont know your story or what age your children are, but presumably you have thought about the type of relationship you are modelling for your children? That is, what you are teaching them to expect from marriage,  family etc?

This was something I struggled with in ending my own relationship,  my mother had modelled resignation to unhappiness for me... .I was doing the same until my therapist pulled me on it... .She called it burden endurance though... .

[vortex of confusion]

Vortex: you are a long time on the boards and I dont know your story or what age your children are, but presumably you have thought about the type of relationship you are modelling for your children? That is, what you are teaching them to expect from marriage,  family etc?

Yes, I have thought about what I am modeling for my children. I am modeling patience. I am modeling the notion that a person doesn't run when things get touch. I am modeling a lot of things that I think are good. Marriage is hard work no matter how good or bad a partner is. I can be me with or without a relationship. I don't need a relationship with a man to make me whole. My kids see that. I have open discussions with my kids about our life on a regular basis. I am teaching them that no matter what life throws at you, you can still have a good attitude and you can still be loving. I am not sure what that has to do with connecting my head and my heart though.

This was something I struggled with in ending my own relationship,  my mother had modelled resignation to unhappiness for me... .I was doing the same until my therapist pulled me on it... .She called it burden endurance though... .

I refuse to resign myself to unhappiness. Sure, there are days when I get frustrated. I would say that overall, I am a pretty happy person. Even my oldest daughter has commented on the fact that I tend to have a pretty positive outlook. I have told my kids that I will figure this out. I am not quite sure how but I will figure all of this out. That is what I do. I figure things out. There is no burden endurance. My husband is a pain in the butt but I don't see him as some kind of burden that I must endure out of some kind of martyrdom. I am NOT a martyr. I am making some very deliberate choices.

I feel like several people are pushing the notion that the only way to connect my head and my heart is to end the relationship. I think I can do what I need to do while staying in the relationship.

[disillusionedandsore]

Hi Vortex, 

Everyone's reasons for staying or going are their own I think. I toughed it out for as long as I could (I was not married) but I knew it could never be a reciprocal stable relationship where I was seen,  valued or appreciated for me.  In my case patience didn't pay off,  my ex wasn't committing to any sort of treatment,  he was,  he wasnt,  there was nothing wrong with him,  he'd admit he had caused hurt then he'd back track and say he didn't know why he was bothering to try anymore!  Round and round... .You get the picture.  Eventually it became much too painful to witness,  to 'endure'  and I felt it was the kinder thing to let him off.  He didn't protest.  He went straight back to Mom... .I don't know your story at all.  I expected you'd have thought this all well through before now... .what I am saying is my Feelings, of hurt,  disappointment,  frustration,  love,  compassion etc led me to my decision. It really hadnt a whole lot to do with values unless those values were self care,  peace, stability and tranquility  I knew it was not the Life I had dreamed of.  I wanted to share my Life in the fullest way possible with somebody capable of loving,  protecting and supporting us,  somebody capable of looking back and being sentimental about our shared journey,  our struggles,  he just couldn't... .He deny ever having been places,  having said things,  having met people important to me at pivotal times,  couldn't 'connect' to our song... .he said he couldn't remember... .Everything we had shared,  good and bad I felt he had erased... .To me that was horrific and I lost hope. After the break up of course I processed and let out feelings I had suppressed,  denied,  brushed aside during the difficult years when I was so focused on keeping us together... .I guess it was finally safe to do so... .so for me it was a half-Life if it was even that,  in hindsight. Hope that clears up what I'm saying anyhow.  I wouldn't dare say what is right for anyone else... .The topic was about opening up to feelings more,  as I saw it.  My experience was that when I did that,  felt my feelings,  what was best for me became very clear in fact obvious,  to absolutely let go.

[vortex of confusion]

what I am saying is my Feelings, of hurt,  disappointment,  frustration,  love,  compassion etc led me to my decision. It really hadnt a whole lot to do with values unless those values were self care,  peace, stability and tranquility  I knew it was not the Life I had dreamed of. 

Thanks for responding! I see what you are saying.

I feel like I can take care of myself and find peace with or without this relationship. I also think that stability and tranquility needs to come from myself. I think it starts from within myself. This isn't the life that I had dreamed of and, in all honesty, I am not sure what I had dreamed of because society tends to sell a load of hogwash when it comes to romantic relationships. Maybe this is a bit far fetched but I think there are too many movies that have the happily ever after endings. No matter who I am with, I think my happy ending is reliant on ME, not a relationship. Sure, relationships add all kinds of wonderful things to life but only IF a person is open to feeling everything, good and bad.

The topic was about opening up to feelings more,  as I saw it.  My experience was that when I did that,  felt my feelings,  what was best for me became very clear in fact obvious,  to absolutely let go.

I see. Thanks for clearing that up. I don't think I have opened up enough yet for things like that to become clear to me.

[disillusionedandsore]

You are welcome,  thanks for giving me an opportunity to share my experience. I agree with you regarding our happiness,  security coming from inside ourselves.  I'd imagine you have a wealth of skills from being here that I didn't have during my r's.  For example I didn't understand that projection was playing such a big role in our dynamic so I was busy trying to take on his complaints! You can imagine the hole I was in! 

I admire your courage in trying to figure all this out and with children,  never easy. Trust and believe in yourself 

[vortex of confusion]

You are welcome,  thanks for giving me an opportunity to share my experience. I agree with you regarding our happiness,  security coming from inside ourselves.  I'd imagine you have a wealth of skills from being here that I didn't have during my r's.  For example I didn't understand that projection was playing such a big role in our dynamic so I was busy trying to take on his complaints! You can imagine the hole I was in! 

When I found this place, I was ready to call it quits. I was angry and sad and confused. All I knew is that I wanted things to change and be different. I found this place almost a year ago (Aug. 2014). It took me a while before I got to a point where I could even try to use the tools. I had so much stuff to vent about and complain about. When I got here, I had a difficult time seeing how I could have possibly contributed to anything. Whether I stay or go, this is stuff that I need to work on for myself so that I can thrive instead of just surviving.

When I originally posted this thread, I was thinking about how I keep my negative feelings and emotions at bay. The more I think about it, the more I realize that I keep a lot of my positive feelings at bay too. I am afraid to be proud of myself or excited about things. That comes from a variety of sources. When I was a kid, if I would share things, it was "don't brag, you might upset your siblings." As an adult, I tend to keep things quiet because I don't want my husband to feel bad about himself. He has said that I make things look too easy. I have had a lot of people say things to me like, "Oh, you just think you are better than everyone else." As a result, I try not to get too excited. Heck, we went to a big theme park with my in laws one time. I was excited and being silly and having fun. I think it was SIL that got irritated with me and told me that maybe I needed to be put on ritalin or something. We are at a friggin' theme park for crying out loud. Isn't the whole purpose to go and have fun and act like a kid?

One of the things that I have worked really hard at is to hold on to childlike wonder. I take care of business and I get things done but I love nothing more than to enjoy a sunset or listen to my kids talk about things that they are experiencing for the first time. I have learned to put a lid on that too. I have a lot of really good things going for me and I could do a lot of really great things if I could just get over being afraid of doing the head/heart connection and fully experiencing ALL of my emotions/feelings, both good and bad.

[Lucky Jim]

I have a lot of really good things going for me and I could do a lot of really great things if I could just get over being afraid of doing the head/heart connection and fully experiencing ALL of my emotions/feelings, both good and bad.

Hey vortex, I agree with that.  What are you afraid of?  Your feelings and emotions are all part of you, the unique person that is you.  Be authentic, which includes feeling your emotions.  Pause before you respond automatically; check in with yourself in that gap between stimulus and response.  As Nietzsche said, "Become who you are."  It takes work, though, and won't happen on its own.

I should know, because I was brought up in a stoic family that discouraged displays of emotions.  As a result, I learned to repress feelings to the point that I had no idea what I was feeling.  I looked into my gut and saw . . . nothing.  It's taken me a long time to reclaim my emotions.  After my marriage to a pwBPD ended, I was tired of pretending and decided that, from now on, I would strive to be authentic in all things.  I discovered that authenticity is a great path to personal freedom.  You should try it, too.  Go ahead, connect your head and your heart!

LuckyJim

[mssalty]

I think a balance is important, but very tough in a relationship where reality and the BPD reality clash.   

Your heart says, "I love this person." 

Your head says, "This person loves me, and their anger, commands, actions must have a reason to be figured out." 

Your gut says, "I'm getting nauseous because Mr. Brain has been spinning for weeks and he still doesn't get it."   

Your head says, "Maybe it's me."

Your heart says, "This person loves you and if you want to love them, you need to figure this out.  Maybe it is you." 

Your gut says, "Something is wrong here."

Your heart says, "Shut up." 

Your head says, "I need to change my ways."

And so you do.  And you work the Rubik's cube of your relationship, not knowing that one night someone rearranged the stickers so there is no rational way to solve it.   

And your head says, "What the flip?  Something is broken here."

And your gut says, ":)uh!"

And your heart says,  :'(

I've spent a lot of time in my head trying to figure all of this out and what I need to do.  And my gut gets queasy, so I go back to my head some more.   And my heart shrinks a little.   It's tough to balance it all when your heart feels one way, your gut is telling you something different, and your mind can't figure out how to put any of it together.   

This doesn't help, I know, but it made me think a bit.  Which maybe I shouldn't be.   

[jhkbuzz]

I think a balance is important, but very tough in a relationship where reality and the BPD reality clash.   

Your heart says, "I love this person." 

Your head says, "This person loves me, and their anger, commands, actions must have a reason to be figured out." 

Your gut says, "I'm getting nauseous because Mr. Brain has been spinning for weeks and he still doesn't get it."   

Your head says, "Maybe it's me."

Your heart says, "This person loves you and if you want to love them, you need to figure this out.  Maybe it is you." 

Your gut says, "Something is wrong here."

Your heart says, "Shut up." 

Your head says, "I need to change my ways."

And so you do.  And you work the Rubik's cube of your relationship, not knowing that one night someone rearranged the stickers so there is no rational way to solve it.   

And your head says, "What the flip?  Something is broken here."

And your gut says, ":)uh!"

And your heart says,  :'(

I've spent a lot of time in my head trying to figure all of this out and what I need to do.  And my gut gets queasy, so I go back to my head some more.   And my heart shrinks a little.   It's tough to balance it all when your heart feels one way, your gut is telling you something different, and your mind can't figure out how to put any of it together.   

This doesn't help, I know, but it made me think a bit.  Which maybe I shouldn't be.   

That ^ is brilliant!

[mssalty]

When I originally posted this thread, I was thinking about how I keep my negative feelings and emotions at bay. The more I think about it, the more I realize that I keep a lot of my positive feelings at bay too. I am afraid to be proud of myself or excited about things. That comes from a variety of sources. When I was a kid, if I would share things, it was "don't brag, you might upset your siblings." As an adult, I tend to keep things quiet because I don't want my husband to feel bad about himself. He has said that I make things look too easy. I have had a lot of people say things to me like, "Oh, you just think you are better than everyone else." As a result, I try not to get too excited. Heck, we went to a big theme park with my in laws one time. I was excited and being silly and having fun. I think it was SIL that got irritated with me and told me that maybe I needed to be put on ritalin or something. We are at a friggin' theme park for crying out loud. Isn't the whole purpose to go and have fun and act like a kid?

One of the things that I have worked really hard at is to hold on to childlike wonder. I take care of business and I get things done but I love nothing more than to enjoy a sunset or listen to my kids talk about things that they are experiencing for the first time. I have learned to put a lid on that too. I have a lot of really good things going for me and I could do a lot of really great things if I could just get over being afraid of doing the head/heart connection and fully experiencing ALL of my emotions/feelings, both good and bad.

Wow does this ring a bell.  A few weeks ago I had a moment where I was locked into just a happy moment and several things in a row struck me as funny.   I was criticized for laughing so loudly and finding something funny that "wasn't that funny".    You shouldn't fear being happy.   And you shouldn't feel bad for feeling light in your heart.  

[vortex of confusion]

I've spent a lot of time in my head trying to figure all of this out and what I need to do.  And my gut gets queasy, so I go back to my head some more.   And my heart shrinks a little.   It's tough to balance it all when your heart feels one way, your gut is telling you something different, and your mind can't figure out how to put any of it together.   

This doesn't help, I know, but it made me think a bit.  Which maybe I shouldn't be.   

I loved your post! I am re-reading this thread and realized that I didn't respond to this. I have periods where I don't want to think about the whole personal inventory stuff. 

When I was reading the dialog about between the head and heart, I feel like my heart is saying that I am not in love with this person and my head is saying that I love him because I have four kids with him. My head and heart seem to be in opposition but they are the opposite of what you posted. That is a difficult pill to swallow. The song "You've lost that loving feeling" keeps popping into my head at random times when I try to think about this stuff.

[vortex of confusion]

Wow does this ring a bell.  A few weeks ago I had a moment where I was locked into just a happy moment and several things in a row struck me as funny.   I was criticized for laughing so loudly and finding something funny that "wasn't that funny".    You shouldn't fear being happy.   And you shouldn't feel bad for feeling light in your heart.  

Even though my situation hasn't had any major changes, I do notice that I am feeling lighter as I open myself up more to my emotions. It is like I forgot how to laugh there for a while. I am a major smart ass. There for a while, I was taking myself and everyone else way too seriously for my tastes. It feels good to try to get in touch with the lighter side of things.